Warfish Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, slats said: ...... some mercenary put up numbers for himself but not necessarily the team. A 9. Production doesn't matter because that guy is selfish and only cares about his stats, our guy is selfless, an angel really, who somehow chooses not to produce yards and TD's because that's better for the team. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Warfish said: 9. Production doesn't matter because that guy is selfish and only cares about his stats, our guy is selfless, an angel really, who somehow chooses not to produce yards and TD's because that's better for the team. He's a mercenary because he signed a 3-year deal with the Vikings. He never signed that deal with the full intention of finishing his career with Minnesota, like Mahomes did with KC. He signed it with the intention of squeezing one more payday after his current deal ends. He did take less money from Minnesota than us, but only a few million less. He signed there knowing he could put up far better numbers than in New York. Thus maximizing his future potential earning. That's a mercenary. Nothing wrong with it, mind you. I'd do the same thing in his shoes. But the preference for an organization should always be to have a homegrown QB, not someone else's QB that they didn't see fit to retain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Better question, What if Kirk CAMERON signed with the Jets? Discuss. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 18 hours ago, Warfish said: Thank you, I left that one off the list. 8. Production doesn't matter, because that guy has All-Pros everywhere and our guys can barely pump gas. Even elite QB's can't raise the quality of our guys. You can't judge our guy with this roster. Or the next roster. Or the roster after that.... You're right, Kirk Cousins is awesome and that signing has worked out perfectly for the Vikings. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: He's a mercenary because he signed a 3-year deal with the Vikings. He never signed that deal with the full intention of finishing his career with Minnesota, like Mahomes did with KC. He signed it with the intention of squeezing one more payday after his current deal ends. He did take less money from Minnesota than us, but only a few million less. He signed there knowing he could put up far better numbers than in New York. Thus maximizing his future potential earning. That's a mercenary. Nothing wrong with it, mind you. I'd do the same thing in his shoes. But the preference for an organization should always be to have a homegrown QB, not someone else's QB that they didn't see fit to retain. Did the Vikings offer a longer term contract? Obviously they weren't offering any 10 year contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Warfish said: 9. Production doesn't matter because that guy is selfish and only cares about his stats, our guy is selfless, an angel really, who somehow chooses not to produce yards and TD's because that's better for the team. This idea that QBs create production in a vacuum humors me. You can repeat your points over and over, I don't care. That's why I didn't reply. IMHO, Kirk Cousins on the Jets would've been the franchise spinning its wheels for three years. KC agrees, which is why he turned down the Jets' money. He knew that he would not be able to put up the same numbers on this team. He also knew that he wanted to cash in again three years later, and he felt (correctly, again, IMHO) that he wouldn't be as valuable after three years with the Jets as he would've been after three years with the Vikings. Don't really have to look much further than to Le'Veon Bell. How much has his open market value dropped since signing with this team? Despite all of your posts about Kirk Cousins' production, Kirk Cousins -decidedly a mercenary, looking for the most money he can get- opted to pass on more money short term from the Jets because he understood that he would not be able to get that production on the Jets. The Vikes can have him. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Just now, Barry McCockinner said: Did the Vikings offer a longer term contract? Obviously they weren't offering any 10 year contracts. I don't recall, but I'm pretty sure we offered a 3-year deal as well. My guess is that he and his agent put out there that he was looking for a 3-year deal as a starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 40 minutes ago, section314 said: Cousins is fringe top 10-12 material right now, so I agree, we are not better right now at the QB position. But if Cousins is the ceiling we have for Sam, then we drafted the wrong guy. Also, with Macc drafting with those picks we gave up, we might have been in even worse roster shape than we were when he got fired. He would have done nothing to help Cousins either.The thing that scares me the most about Sam is that he's the one Macc wanted. Based on Macc's record here, that should scare everybody. The point I was trying to make (and maybe not very well) is that we did such a terrible job or prepoaring the roster for a rookie QB that the odds were stacked against Darnold. The mistake we made was in 2016 & 2017. With McCown as our QB, that was the time to spend resource on young offensive talent so that when it came time to draft the young QB, we could have put him in a better position to succeed. Since we didn't do that, we might have been better off with the vet on a 3-year deal while we built an offense. But I get your point, since Macc didn't add offensive talent when he had the chance with McCown as QB in 16 & 17, it is not likely that he would have done it in 2018 & 19, with or without Cousins. I really hope Darnold makes this whole conversation moot with a big year this year. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Getting back on topic, the time to get Cousins was in 2012, when I was screaming at the top of my lungs that Sanchez wasn't the long term answer, and if Cousins was on the board in the 2nd/3rd round we should pick him. LOL. Instead, they realized a year too late that the position was unstable, but instead of drafting a potential above average Professional QB, Idzik settled on Geno. Oh well. Ifs and buts, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2k8 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Jet Nut said: Keep reading this. Other O'Donnell was never as good as Cousins, never put up really good QB numbers like Cousins has it would make sense. But every and any trade for a QB wouldn't be Neil O'Donnell 2.0 The comparison is less about Cousins and O'Donnell as QBs but as FA QBs coming into terrible situations in which they are set up for failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, y2k8 said: The comparison is less about Cousins and O'Donnell as QBs but as FA QBs coming into terrible situations in which they are set up for failure. The comparison doesnt really hold water. And is proven by how well Cousins has played in Minny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2k8 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: The comparison doesnt really hold water. And is proven by how well Cousins has played in Minny You're not following. We understand that Cousins has played well in Minnesota. The point is that if he signed with the Jets, the team would suck and he would just like Neil O'Donnell. It's a projection. I don't get what you don't get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, y2k8 said: You're not following. We understand that Cousins has played well in Minnesota. The point is that if he signed with the Jets, the team would suck and he would just like Neil O'Donnell. It's a projection. I don't get what you don't get. I hear you, agree with you to a degree But we dont know that they would have sucked. Youre assuming the same team we see today would be in place just with an experienced QB. You may be right, but I dont know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: I hear you, agree with you to a degree But we dont know that they would have sucked. Youre assuming the same team we see today would be in place just with an experienced QB. You may be right, but I dont know Cousins took a 13-3 team to 9-7. We know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 hours ago, slats said: The Vikes can have him. I wonder how many "We Shouldn't Have Signed Kirk Cousins, We Should Have Drafted Sam Darnold" threads there are on Vikings forums these days.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 24 minutes ago, Warfish said: I wonder how many "We Shouldn't Have Signed Kirk Cousins, We Should Have Drafted Sam Darnold" threads there are on Vikings forums these days.... I'm sure they're wishing they'd taken Lamar Jackson at # 30 overall instead of signing Cousins and picking UNC CB Mike Hughes (5 starts and 2 INTs in 2 seasons), that's for damn sure. Jackson went 2 picks later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said: Cousins took a 13-3 team to 9-7. We know. A team that the year after 13-3 wasn't the same team as the one that went 9-7. Blaming him for the record change is wrong. Teams records dont sink because of improved QB play. Especially in this league So no we dont know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: I'm sure they're wishing they'd taken Lamar Jackson at # 30 overall instead of signing Cousins and picking UNC CB Mike Hughes (5 starts and 2 INTs in 2 seasons), that's for damn sure. Jackson went 2 picks later. Lamar "Sucks and will be out of the league in a year or two according to Jets Fans" Jackson? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Warfish said: Lamar "Sucks and will be out of the league in a year or two according to Jets Fans" Jackson? To some, yes. I liked him better than Mayfield and Josh Allen that year, FWIW. And certainly at pick 30 he was more than worth a shot. In fact, that's a sweet spot to take a shot on a young QB. Not as big of a commitment as a top 10 pick and you still get that 5th year option. Hence why Baltimore was smart in moving up to get him, even if he didn't end up proving worthy of a 2nd contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 On 7/10/2020 at 10:58 AM, Jet_Engine1 said: Better question, What if Kirk CAMERON signed with the Jets? Discuss. He would be slightly worse than Bryce Petty or Christian Hackenberg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Jets would have Cousins + 4 high draft picks problem is Mac was doing the drafting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Philc1 said: He would be slightly worse than Bryce Petty or Christian Hackenberg Petty? Maybe. Hackenberg? If he never threw a pick, he would be an improvement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said: Petty? Maybe. Hackenberg? If he never threw a pick, he would be an improvement... Those were dark days when jets fans’ Hope was tied to those 2 clowns learning from Fitz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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