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Redskins no more-team retires name

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On 7/13/2020 at 5:37 PM, Warfish said:

If you're into this kind of stuff, and ever find yourself down in DC/NoVA, definitely check out the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, part of the Smithsonian collection.  It is amazing, vastly better than the actual Air & Space museum in DC itself.  A treasure trove of history.

Was planning a trip before COVID-19 changed plans.  If it’s that much better then it’s a must see, thanks for the heads up!

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15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Was planning a trip before COVID-19 changed plans.  If it’s that much better then it’s a must see, thanks for the heads up!

I doubt you will regret it. :)

Only challenge is it's a good 30-45 minutes outside of DC itself, in NoVA.  And there isn;t really much else around it (apart from Dulles airport).

If this is your kind of thing, tho, historic planes, and an actual Space Shuttle and a bunch of other space age items of note, you should really like it.

They also do films on IMAX, alot of them on history or space exploration of course, but also (pre-CVOID at least) a few normal films as well.  I saw Dunkirk there, and man......wow.  

If you go, I hope you have a great time my friend.

 

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12 hours ago, Warfish said:

I doubt you will regret it. :)

Only challenge is it's a good 30-45 minutes outside of DC itself, in NoVA.  And there isn;t really much else around it (apart from Dulles airport).

If this is your kind of thing, tho, historic planes, and an actual Space Shuttle and a bunch of other space age items of note, you should really like it.

They also do films on IMAX, alot of them on history or space exploration of course, but also (pre-CVOID at least) a few normal films as well.  I saw Dunkirk there, and man......wow.  

If you go, I hope you have a great time my friend.

 

This is right up my alley thing.  I haven’t done a historical museum trip to DC but it’s always been a destination I’ve yearned for.  Dialysis 3xs a week, 15 hours puts a damper on these trips, especially when COVID-19 was mixed into the equation.  I’ll get there though and will give myself the time to get in as much as possible.  Thanks for the heads up buddy

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12 hours ago, slats said:

I really don’t understand why you feel the need to defend it. How does the removal of this name effect your life in a negative way? What harm does it cause you? Because for many Native Americans, this is a real positive. Maybe just be happy for them? I don’t know. 

Its not defending, i just think the truth matters. Your statement that many native Americans found it offensive is untrue.  I'm not happy for them, I think it is silly. 

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9 hours ago, Warfish said:

Yes, he was.

You're factually and historically incorrect, but I don't think I can convince you otherwise, so this too is moot at this point. 

Believe what you like, but don't be a hypocrite about it, make sure you call every Native American you meet a "redskin" when you see them.

After all, it's a term of honor, right, so they won't mind.  They will probably thank you.

Moot.

Indeed.  

Yes, I've heard, the what about, slippery slope, what's next theory.

I'm not going to hold my breath about the Pats being changed, but if you want to get hysterical over it, by all means, have a blast.

lol you are right, you wont convince me because you really aren't arguing with my point (a classic move by those that share your viewpoint) you just change what i said to fit your argument. Hense your "call every native american" comment. (followed up with another classic move by those that share your viewpoint, the grammar/misspelling police - which in your mind makes you smarter...relax bro it was a typo.

The redskins team name was done to honor the natives in the area with out any negative, racist or otherwise bad connotation. That is a fact. 

I disagree with you and you are wrong just accept it.  

 

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24 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Its not defending, i just think the truth matters. Your statement that many native Americans found it offensive is untrue.  I'm not happy for them, I think it is silly. 

Define “many.” 
 
And if it’s just silly, why do you give enough of a **** to even respond? Are you gonna miss this slur? 

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1 hour ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

lol you are right, you wont convince me because you really aren't arguing with my point (a classic move by those that share your viewpoint) you just change what i said to fit your argument. Hense your "call every native american" comment. (followed up with another classic move by those that share your viewpoint, the grammar/misspelling police - which in your mind makes you smarter...relax bro it was a typo.

The redskins team name was done to honor the natives in the area with out any negative, racist or otherwise bad connotation. That is a fact. 

I disagree with you and you are wrong just accept it.  

Whatever you say. :rolleyes:

Name is still changing.  Guess "those that share my viewpoint" win again.  

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12 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

This is right up my thing.  I haven’t done a historical museum trip to DC but it’s always been a destination I’ve yearned for.  Dialysis 3xs a week, 15 hours puts a damper on these trips, especially when COVID was mixed into the equation.  I’ll get there though and will give myself the time to get in as much as possible.  Thanks for the heads up buddy

Good to see you posting again. 

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15 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

Good to see you posting again. 

Thanks so much, good to be back posting.  Believe me

Thanks again and stay safe.  

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4 hours ago, slats said:

Define “many.” 
 
And if it’s just silly, why do you give enough of a **** to even respond? Are you gonna miss this slur? 

I dont think it was a slur, but did anyone else, Including native  Americans. 

I think it's wrong to call someone or an organization  racist if they are not.

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Whatever you say. :rolleyes:

Name is still changing.  Guess "those that share my viewpoint" win again.  

They certainly did.

I heard about some guy that trade marked all the likely names or at least what he thought  was likely.  Is there any news on the actual replacement name?

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8 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I dont think it was a slur, but did anyone else, Including native  Americans. 

I think it's wrong to call someone or an organization  racist if they are not.

A 'Showdown' That Changed Football's Racial History

 
Showdown
 
Showdown

JFK and the Integration of the Washington Redskins

by Thomas G. Smith

Hardcover, 277 pages

purchase

 

 
 
 
 
 
 

 

  •  
  •  
  •  

Jackie Robinson broke baseball's color barrier in 1947. But it wasn't until 1962 that the last NFL franchise integrated — the Washington Redskins.

As Thomas G. Smith writes in his new book, Showdown: JFK and the Integration of the Washington Redskins, Redskins owner George Preston Marshall was quite happy running the last segregated team. "He loved being a holdout because he loved the attention," Smith told weekends on All Things Considered guest host Laura Sullivan. "His excuse for being the only holdout [was] the Redskins are the South's team and the South is segregated. So is the nation's capital, and this is my primary audience."

But the Redskins' history of racism predates their time in Washington. They were created as the Boston Braves, just like the original Beantown baseball team back in the days when a town's sports franchises often had the same name. In 1933, the team moved into Fenway Park. Marshall also hired a new coach that year, a member of the Sioux nation named Lone Star Dietz, "and to honor Dietz, so he said, he renamed the team Redskins," recalled Smith.

The players and coach Dietz were also forced to wear war paint and act out Indian-style dances on the field. Smith said that made it difficult for the players to perform in the game: "They became physically so tired that they couldn't perform well, and it was embarrassing and humiliating and they hated it."

Racial discrimination damaged the Redskins performance on the field for another reason. Many of the prime draft picks were African-Americans, and because the Redskins were perennially bad Marshall often had the first slot in the draft. But year after year he would pass up future Hall of Famers like Jim Brown and Jim Parker for white players. Many of them would never make a name for themselves – not to mention the 'Skins.

By the early sixties, the civil rights movement was gaining strength, and Washington became a majority black city in 1960. Smith said pressure started building from the black fan base and the media, including Washington's premier sports columnist, Shirley Povich.

None of that was enough to push Marshall across the color line. The leverage finally came in 1961 as the Redskins prepared to move into the brand new D.C. Stadium, later renamed for Robert F. Kennedy.

The stadium was on federal land, so President John F. Kennedy's interior secretary, Stewart Udall, was effectively D.C. Stadium's landlord. He gave Marshall an ultimatum, according to Smith, "If you do not hire a black player, you will not be able to use this new stadium." Marshall refused, Udall backed off, and the Redskins did play in their new stadium for the 1961 season.

"But if you don't integrate in 1962, you will not be able to use the stadium." Smith said that's the line in the sand Udall drew as the next season approached. He told Marshall to sign or trade for a black player, turning the 1962 draft into a showdown. Marshall refused to draft an African-American, so he sent coach Bill McPeak to do it for him.

The Redskins drafted Syracuse back Ernie Davis as the first pick in the 1962 draft. Davis was traded, but the Redskins eventually signed five African-Americans, including future Hall of Famer Bobby Mitchell.

Mitchell maintains that he never had any issues with George Preston Marshall, but faced much hostility from fans. Mitchell, the Redskins' first African-American star, stayed with the team for decades, eventually rising to the position of assistant general manager before retiring in 2002.

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But yeah, no racist history there. 

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22 hours ago, Warfish said:

I doubt you will regret it. :)

Only challenge is it's a good 30-45 minutes outside of DC itself, in NoVA.  And there isn;t really much else around it (apart from Dulles airport).

If this is your kind of thing, tho, historic planes, and an actual Space Shuttle and a bunch of other space age items of note, you should really like it.

They also do films on IMAX, alot of them on history or space exploration of course, but also (pre-CVOID at least) a few normal films as well.  I saw Dunkirk there, and man......wow.  

If you go, I hope you have a great time my friend.

 

Not much around it? Ahem? Got this Crushlove here. 

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9 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I heard about some guy that trade marked all the likely names or at least what he thought  was likely.  Is there any news on the actual replacement name?

Not a single word so far.  No leaks, which itself it quite odd.

In part it could be related to the "big brewing story" the Washington Post is apparently preparing for tomorrow.  

In part it could be because, unlike most teams, these is no marketing team managing this change.  It's literally Dan, Coach Rivera and maybe a few of Dan's insiders.  Alot less folks to leak.

The guy (he's a local) who marked a few possible names is true, he's done interviews about it.  He says he did it to protect the names because he's a fan and would be easier to get the names from than a non-fan (lol), but it still smells like a name-hostage situation, as often happens with marks.  I'm not convinced Dan wants any of the names he owns anyway (Red Wolves, for example, isn;t one this guy has the mark for).

Till this post story break, huge or a nothingburger, I doubt we'll hear any more on the name itself.

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32 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Not much around it? Ahem? Got this Crushlove here. 

Well, WE are around it, of course.  But you and me are hardly tourist attractions, lol.

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21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Well, WE are around it, of course.  But you and me are hardly tourist attractions, lol.

Yet!

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On 7/15/2020 at 8:54 PM, BornJetsFan1983 said:

I dont think it was a slur, but did anyone else, Including native  Americans. 

I think it's wrong to call someone or an organization  racist if they are not.

Anecdotal evidence.  I went to the season opener a couple of years ago in AZ against the Skins.  There were several groups of native Americans asking fans to sign petitions to get Washington to change the name.  If anyone means someone you're wrong.  I can't say what the numbers are but clearly there are native Americans who were upset about the name and wanted it changed.  You don't stand in the AZ parking lot in 110 Degree heat to get petitions signed if you don't care.

Anecdotally, I think it's a slur.  It's a smart move for the team to change the name now.  They have new management and they are trying to move forward.  The timing is good for the team.  

 

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On 7/15/2020 at 10:25 AM, Warfish said:

I doubt you will regret it. :)

Only challenge is it's a good 30-45 minutes outside of DC itself, in NoVA.  And there isn;t really much else around it (apart from Dulles airport).

If this is your kind of thing, tho, historic planes, and an actual Space Shuttle and a bunch of other space age items of note, you should really like it.

They also do films on IMAX, alot of them on history or space exploration of course, but also (pre-CVOID at least) a few normal films as well.  I saw Dunkirk there, and man......wow.  

If you go, I hope you have a great time my friend.

 

Ahem, this Crushlove lives 10 minutes from the Air and Space museum. I'm a huge attraction. 

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Wait so fans will have to go to games dressed as fans and not in Halloween costumes mocking Native American people?  I’m outraged.

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The other day Chris Russo said there were 33 HS football teams on reservations with the name. Just saying. 

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9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Wait so fans will have to go to games dressed as fans and not in Halloween costumes mocking Native American people?  I’m outraged.

First they take your feathers. Then your freedom.

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On 7/14/2020 at 12:56 AM, Larz said:

The team is named after commercial jets. The 60s.  Commercial flights were futuristic hip happening and groovy 

Then Ryanair came along...

 

 

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21 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Wait so fans will have to go to games dressed as fans and not in Halloween costumes mocking Native American people?  I’m outraged.

They could always do the Miami thing and go dressed as plastic seats.

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