Beachum signs with Cards

[Philc1]

On 7/17/2020 at 2:31 PM, AFJF said:

Honestly shocked it took this long.  He's no Anthony Munoz and he'll get beat by the elite guys as many OT's do, but he's a solid player and you probably won't have a better person in your  locker room.

Tape of the bengals game got out

[FidelioJet]

On 7/18/2020 at 9:16 PM, Jet Nut said:

I'll take JDs word for it.  I cant believe he didnt check with Fidelio first

Because we know Jet GM’s are never wrong. I forgot about that.  My mistake. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Because we know Jet GM’s are never wrong. I forgot about that.  My mistake. 

GM's get stuff wrong but your constant reminders of that add nothing to the discussion.  We all understand this.  The Jets have missed the playoffs for the last decade because of a lack of talent.

[THE BARON]

Beachum actually a better player than Fant... 

[FidelioJet]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

GM's get stuff wrong but your constant reminders of that add nothing to the discussion.  We all understand this.  The Jets have missed the playoffs for the last decade because of a lack of talent.

So, when we sign players that have been back ups - at best = on other teams - I’m supposed to just trust our GM?

It’s a silly argument you’re attempting to make.  

Bottom line, with this OL, if you simply look at the history of performance of the players - there’s no other way to see it than it’s a bad line.

You’re basically saying = I should forget about what I saw, what the statistics say and simply trusty our GM knows better.  

You’re welcome to do so, I won’t.

[Jetsfan80]

20 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

So, when we sign players that have been back ups - at best = on other teams - I’m supposed to just trust our GM?

It’s a silly argument you’re attempting to make.  

Bottom line, with this OL, if you simply look at the history of performance of the players - there’s no other way to see it than it’s a bad line.

You’re basically saying = I should forget about what I saw, what the statistics say and simply trusty our GM knows better.  

You’re welcome to do so, I won’t.

 

I'm saying that Mike Maccagnan was so awful it necessitated the new GM to replace all 5 in one offseason.

If you're not willing to show some patience in light of that, that's not a Douglas problem, that's a you problem.

Meanwhile, he spent pick # 11 plus another mid rounder on the Offensive Line, while bringing in a true starting caliber Center in McGovern and a few other interesting pieces.  That's a lot of capital he spent and, to me are all big time upgrades to what we had.  We now have a potential franchise LT, a bunch of good competition at the G spots (Lewis, Van Roten, Winters, Clark, Braden), a bonafide Center (the first one we've had since Mangold) and an interesting project RT who should be able to at least initially beat out Edoga for the starting job.  

Douglas is also a "specialist" of sorts on the Offensive Line.  So, yes, for now I will trust him.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Douglas is also a "specialist" of sorts on the Offensive Line.  So, yes, for now I will trust him.

Like when begged to give $8mm Khail?

genius I say. 

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Like when begged to give $8mm Khail?

genius I say. 

A symptom of the actual problem:  That our prior Centers were Wesley Johnson, Spencer Long, and Jonotthan Harrison.

What a joke to try to pin the Center woes on Douglas.

And with a full offseason to work with (not a post-draft arrival), he brought in a top 10 caliber Center in Connor McGovern.  

But sure, keep beating that drum I guess?

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Because we know Jet GM’s are never wrong. I forgot about that.  My mistake. 

True but do you what we do know?
Macc, Idzik, Tanny, Bradway whoever have made mistakes. 

So therefore we shouldn't even hire a GM and if hes an ex OL we shouldn't trust him with the OL.  In fact we should just flat out ignore him because of some past GMs mistakes

Thats a smart plan of action

 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

True but do you what we do know?
Macc, Idzik, Tanny, Bradway whoever have made mistakes. 

So therefore we shouldn't even hire a GM and if hes an ex OL we shouldn't trust him with the OL.  In fact we should just flat out ignore him because of some past GMs mistakes

Thats a smart plan of action

 

I’m not saying we should ignore him or not even have hope.  I hope JD knows what he’s doing...to date I simply haven’t seen enough to say that he does.

He’s done some nice things and made some mistakes. 

It’s when people say things like he’s already rebuilt the Oline is when I comment.  Because he hasn’t rebuilt it, he made changes - but that doesn’t mean better, just different.

[Philc1]

On 7/20/2020 at 9:34 AM, THE BARON said:

Beachum actually a better player than Fant... 

Not really

[Philc1]

On 7/20/2020 at 12:41 PM, FidelioJet said:

Like when begged to give $8mm Khail?

genius I say. 

Thank Gase for Kalil

[Philc1]

On 7/17/2020 at 2:59 PM, Beerfish said:

Beach was not great but we will be longing for him by mid season.  Fant was a mccagnan like signing.

Beachum is soft.  The word got out

 

not a Fant guy but he at least has upside

[pdxgreen]

I hope he has a decent career as a backup or whatever role Denver wants him in.  Seemed like a decent guy and I don't remember any complaints.

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

I hope he has a decent career as a backup or whatever role Denver wants him in.  Seemed like a decent guy and I don't remember any complaints.

I was at the bengals game last year when Beachum was so bad he literally scored points for the other team and cost us a possible playoff run 

 

he sucks.  I don’t care the amateurs at PFF are in love with him

[pdxgreen]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I was at the bengals game last year when Beachum was so bad he literally scored points for the other team and cost us a possible playoff run 

 

he sucks.  I don’t care the amateurs at PFF are in love with him

Hey.  I was trying to be nice.  Every time they stuck an edge rusher on him with a great bull rush technique.  He got exposed.  I know that.

[FidelioJet]

7 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Beachum is soft.  The word got out

 

not a Fant guy but he at least has upside

Does he?

people keep saying that but he’s a 5th year guy.   He is what he is, one of the worst tackles in football.  
 

Beachum is a substantially better player. 

[Jetscode1]

On 7/20/2020 at 10:58 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Meanwhile, he spent pick # 11 plus another mid rounder on the Offensive Line, while bringing in a true starting caliber Center in McGovern and a few other interesting pieces.  That's a lot of capital he spent and, to me are all big time upgrades to what we had.  We now have a potential franchise LT, a bunch of good competition at the G spots (Lewis, Van Roten, Winters, Clark, Braden), a bonafide Center (the first one we've had since Mangold) and an interesting project RT who should be able to at least initially beat out Edoga for the starting job.  

Douglas is also a "specialist" of sorts on the Offensive Line.  So, yes, for now I will trust him.

This is why I like Douglas so far.  He's not hanging on to known below average players.  He's using resources to add new players and hopefully build a better unit through competition.  Wish we had a real training camp for them to develop chemistry but overall I like his strategy.   

[AFJF]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Does he?

people keep saying that but he’s a 5th year guy.   He is what he is, one of the worst tackles in football.  
 

Beachum is a substantially better player. 

He's entering year five but hadn't played a lot of football before coming in to the NFL.  I've said a million times that he's a huge question mark, but watch him against Bosa late last season and he looked like a starting NFL LT.  Problem is, he's never been an every dewn/every week player so we don't know what'll happen if he makes that transition.

[Philc1]

8 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Does he?

people keep saying that but he’s a 5th year guy.   He is what he is, one of the worst tackles in football.  
 

Beachum is a substantially better player. 

And Damien Woody was a 7th year guy when Tanenbaum signed him and he switched positions to become an elite RT

[FidelioJet]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

And Damien Woody was a 7th year guy when Tanenbaum signed him and he switched positions to become an elite RT

Are you honestly trying to compare Woody to Fant?  You’re better than that. 
 

I like Douglas but this will turn out to be a bad signing - that was likely a panic move when he lost out on his primary target. It’s okay. GM’s aren’t perfect.  
 

 

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Are you honestly trying to compare Woody to Fant?  You’re better than that. 
 

I like Douglas but this will turn out to be a bad signing - that was likely a panic move when he lost out on his primary target. It’s okay. GM’s aren’t perfect.  
 

 

Why the hate for Fant?  He was a good run blocker in Seattle.  His pass protection needs work but those issues can be worked on

[RichardTodd27]

19 hours ago, AFJF said:

I've said a million times that he's a huge question mark, but watch him against Bosa late last season and he looked like a starting NFL LT.  Problem is, he's never been an every dewn/every week player so we don't know what'll happen if he makes that transition.

Good point. I also recall watching clips of Fant holding up very well against Miles Garrett (who destroyed Beachum).

I wasn't happy with the Fant signing either, but I do think he offers more upside than Beachum (based on age, measurables & athletic ability).

[Irish Jet]

I think going for Beachum on less money to Fant on more money is by far Douglas' most questionable move to date.

Think it's going to be a disaster. Hopefully Becton just kills it early and it doesn't become too much of an issue. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

I think going for Beachum on less money to Fant on more money is by far Douglas' most questionable move to date.

Think it's going to be a disaster. Hopefully Becton just kills it early and it doesn't become too much of an issue. 

Beachum is 31, clearly on the downturn, was not signed all offseason until late July, and will now be a backup LT.  

I can understand not liking Fant, but being unhappy we let Beachum go should not be part of the equation.

And I imagine Douglas was hoping to draft an OT at some point in the first 2 rounds regardless.  Fant probably wasn't his "Plan A" at LT. 

[Irish Jet]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Beachum is 31, clearly on the downturn, was not signed all offseason until late July, and will now be a backup LT.  

I can understand not liking Fant, but being unhappy we let Beachum go should not be part of the equation.

And I imagine Douglas was hoping to draft an OT at some point in the first 2 rounds regardless.  Fant probably wasn't his "Plan A" at LT. 

Yes he's 31, which is why you give him a low risk one year year contract like the Cardinals did. If you resign him you don't have to worry about Fant at all and can put off until next year when better value options become available either in FA or the draft. They are connected - We were going to draft a replacement either way but it was a matter of what depth we brought in. We went with Fant over Beachum for longer and for more. 

Also having Fant, who's a much worse pass blocker than Beachum means we're in an absolute mess if Becton isn't on it from week one, which very may well be possible. I was hoping even lately that we'd make a move for one of the vets in FA to give us some insurance. Becton could easily slide to RT while learning the ropes if he struggled in camp. 

We'll see how it plays out. Fant could surprise me. But as of now I hate it as much as I did when I first heard of it. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Yes he's 31, which is why you give him a low risk one year year contract like the Cardinals did. If you resign him you don't have to worry about Fant at all and can put off until next year when better value options become available either in FA or the draft. They are connected - We were going to draft a replacement either way but it was a matter of what depth we brought in. We went with Fant over Beachum for longer and for more. 

Also having Fant, who's a much worse pass blocker than Beachum means we're in an absolute mess if Becton isn't on it from week one, which very may well be possible. I was hoping even lately that we'd make a move for one of the vets in FA to give us some insurance. Becton could easily slide to RT while learning the ropes if he struggled in camp. 

We'll see how it plays out. Fant could surprise me. But as of now I hate it as much as I did when I first heard of it. 

 

Douglas values versatility on the OL.  Since Beachum is only capable of pass blocking and is a terrible run blocker, he likely didn't want a guy who can "only" handle LT duties sitting on the roster.  

I'm not at all sure about Fant's abilities either but it sounds to me like the plan is for Fant to either start at LT and move to RT, or just stay at RT.  We wouldn't have been able to do that with Beachum.  He'd be an insurance policy at LT, but not a particularly great one at this stage in his career.

If Fant works out a whole bunch of people who aren't sold on Douglas will be eating crow around here.  

[FidelioJet]

18 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Why the hate for Fant?  He was a good run blocker in Seattle.  His pass protection needs work but those issues can be worked on

It’s not so much hate for Fant just that he wasn’t a very good player in Seattle. 

I know PFF isn’t the end all but they have him ranked the 3rd worst Tackle in all of football.  Those are very scary numbers, especially for a guy we paid $10mm and are planning on starting.

Overall, I really worry about Becton too - so I’m looking at our two projected starters and am frightened to death for Sam and this offense.  

Worst line in the NFL last year and as far as I’m concerned we likely downgraded at both Tackles.  

That should worry everyone. 

[Philc1]

23 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It’s not so much hate for Fant just that he wasn’t a very good player in Seattle. 

I know PFF isn’t the end all but they have him ranked the 3rd worst Tackle in all of football.  Those are very scary numbers, especially for a guy we paid $10mm and are planning on starting.

Overall, I really worry about Becton too - so I’m looking at our two projected starters and am frightened to death for Sam and this offense.  

Worst line in the NFL last year and as far as I’m concerned we likely downgraded at both Tackles.  

That should worry everyone. 

PFF is fan fiction.  Fant is an excellent run blocker.  Yes, his pass protection needs to get better but that technique can be worked on