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Jamal Adams ranked #1 in ESPNs top 10 Safteys


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12 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Extending Adams early, at the numbers being discussed, really serves no purpose.

The Jets are under the cap floor they do eventually have to pay someone. It serves the purpose of building locker room morale and planning for the next big extension (Darnold?) 

I agree they don't have to pay him 20 but someone in this thread said he's worth 13 and worse than Honey Badger - that's inaccurate 

he's worth about 15-17 and that's what he's going to get eventually 

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 Any team could buy the “best safety in the game” for a couple of draft picks and ~$5 million bucks.

high draft picks are worth  their weight in gold 

exactly because of this Jamal Adams situation

sh|tburger teams like the Jets can force players to play for them at reduced rates during the prime of their career 

they can also be traded for more picks and the cycle of never paying anyone serious money continues 

if life used draft picks we'd understand how crap it is to be told you're moving to Cleveland against your will 

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please tell us who this nfc exec is so Douglas can get him on the phone asap.

1. Jamal Adams, New York Jets Age: 24 | Highest ranking: 1 | Lowest ranking: 5 This wasn't all that close for some. "He's the second-best defensive player in football," said an NFC exec

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2 hours ago, GreekJet said:

You act as if paying Adams is going to cripple the Jets financially and I just don’t see it. There are plenty of teams that have a 20MM+ player on defense and are competitive. If the Jets trade Adams for a late first and use the cap space on a guy like Allen Robinson is that good business? Trade a guy who is on a HOF trajectory in his prime because of “positional value”?  
 

You throw out all these hypotheticals, but the reality is if the Jets don’t start drafting better it’s not going to matter. It’s been proven time and again that you can’t patchwork these holes in free agency. The idea is to draft and develop your own talent and supplement your young core through free agency. 

What exactly are you qualifying as "plenty" and "competitive"?  There are only a total of 7 defensive players in the league, on 6 teams, that are making $20M+, every single one of which is a pass rusher that has returned double-digit sacks (3 DE, 3 DT, 1 OLB).  Even still, 5 of those 6 teams did not make the playoffs last year.

Meanwhile, there is not a single team in NFL history that has paid a safety $20M+, so the evidence would still suggest it would be a poor allocation of resources.  Actually, strong safety in particular is the single lowest paid defensive position (with the highest paid strong safety coming in at 40th among defensive players, and 86th in the league).

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Jets are under the cap floor they do eventually have to pay someone. It serves the purpose of building locker room morale and planning for the next big extension (Darnold?) 

I agree they don't have to pay him 20 but someone in this thread said he's worth 13 and worse than Honey Badger - that's inaccurate 

he's worth about 15-17 and that's what he's going to get eventually 

high draft picks are worth  their weight in gold 

exactly because of this Jamal Adams situation

sh|tburger teams like the Jets can force players to play for them at reduced rates during the prime of their career 

they can also be traded for more picks and the cycle of never paying anyone serious money continues 

if life used draft picks we'd understand how crap it is to be told you're moving to Cleveland against your will 

Yeah because the Jets did the right thing in over paying pro bowler Mo Wilkerson....

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4 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

What exactly are you qualifying as "plenty" and "competitive"?  There are only a total of 7 defensive players in the league, on 6 teams, that are making $20M+, every single one of which is a pass rusher that has returned double-digit sacks (3 DE, 3 DT, 1 OLB).  Even still, 5 of those 6 teams did not make the playoffs last year.

Meanwhile, there is not a single team in NFL history that has paid a safety $20M+, so the evidence would still suggest it would be a poor allocation of resources.  Actually, strong safety in particular is the single lowest paid defensive position (with the highest paid strong safety coming in at 40th among defensive players, and 86th in the league).

So the argument against his point that teams are being able to pay a player 20 mil per is that only they're pass rushers?  How does that change the point or am I missing something?

Not that I would pay him $20 mil, those players few and far between

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47 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So the argument against his point that teams are being able to pay a player 20 mil per is that only they're pass rushers?  How does that change the point or am I missing something?

Not that I would pay him $20 mil, those players few and far between

I think the primary argument not to pay him is that he’s under contract for two more years, and that the Jets have options available to control him for another two years after that. There’s absolutely no need to extend him now and, for the money’s he’s asking, there’s no incentive, either. He’s not gonna be traded until someone ponies up enough for JD to bite. Everything else is just noise. 

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40 minutes ago, slats said:

I think the primary argument not to pay him is that he’s under contract for two more years, and that the Jets have options available to control him for another two years after that. There’s absolutely no need to extend him now and, for the money’s he’s asking, there’s no incentive, either. He’s not gonna be traded until someone ponies up enough for JD to bite. Everything else is just noise. 

Oh, I'm not saying pay him or extend him or that hes worth the $20 its rumored (but no one knows) that he wants.  I'm with you, if JD doesnt want to sign him now ,theres no need to.  

I was just responding to a money debate.  One post said we cant afford to pay anyone $20 mil.  Another said we cant because only pass rushers should get 20 and I asked which is it you cant pay a player 20 per or that you cant pay a S?  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Oh, I'm not saying pay him or extend him or that hes worth the $20 its rumored (but no one knows) that he wants.  I'm with you, if JD doesnt want to sign him now ,theres no need to.  

I was just responding to a money debate.  One post said we cant afford to pay anyone $20 mil.  Another said we cant because only pass rushers should get 20 and I asked which is it you cant pay a player 20 per or that you cant pay a S?  

 

 

If you actually look, absolutely no one in any way claimed that the team can't afford to pay any player that much.  That was stated as a completely nonsensical straw man, so isn't even worth acknowledging.  The claim was also that "plenty" of teams pay defensive players that much and are "competitive", both of which were factually inaccurate statements, considering only 6 teams have such, 5 of whom missed the playoffs.

In regards to Adams, who is the actual topic of discussion, the argument is made only worse considering literally no one in the history of football has ever shown to think the position he plays merits anywhere close to what he's reportedly asking for.

Of course, as you said, there's no particular reason to pay him now regardless, which is certainly the most significant point.

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9 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

What exactly are you qualifying as "plenty" and "competitive"?  There are only a total of 7 defensive players in the league, on 6 teams, that are making $20M+, every single one of which is a pass rusher that has returned double-digit sacks (3 DE, 3 DT, 1 OLB).  Even still, 5 of those 6 teams did not make the playoffs last year.

Meanwhile, there is not a single team in NFL history that has paid a safety $20M+, so the evidence would still suggest it would be a poor allocation of resources.  Actually, strong safety in particular is the single lowest paid defensive position (with the highest paid strong safety coming in at 40th among defensive players, and 86th in the league).

There are 18 players make 17MM+ including two ILB (CJ Mosley and Bobby Wagner). With the cap going up its really not much of a difference. 

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19 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

There are 18 players make 17MM+ including two ILB (CJ Mosley and Bobby Wagner). With the cap going up its really not much of a difference. 

Yet still none of them are safeties.  Your claim that more than 17% is "not much of a difference" is complete nonsense.

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2 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yet still none of them are safeties.  Your claim that more than 17% is "not much of a difference" is complete nonsense.

The cap increased approximately 11% the past two years (roughly 5-6 percent per year). Assuming the cap increases another 6 percent in 2021-20MM in 2021 will equal 17MM in 2018. If the Jets are able to get Jamal to sign between 16-18MM right now that’s a team friendly deal IMO. That’s the biggest advantage of signing guys early. By 2022 Jamals contract may look like a value (he’d still only be 27 years old). 

Regardless of what position he plays Id value Jamal as a top 15 defensive player in the NFL.

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5 hours ago, GreekJet said:

The cap increased approximately 11% the past two years (roughly 5-6 percent per year). Assuming the cap increases another 6 percent in 2021-20MM in 2021 will equal 17MM in 2018. If the Jets are able to get Jamal to sign between 16-18MM right now that’s a team friendly deal IMO. That’s the biggest advantage of signing guys early. By 2022 Jamals contract may look like a value (he’d still only be 27 years old). 

Regardless of what position he plays Id value Jamal as a top 15 defensive player in the NFL.

The cap won't go up next year and, if the owners have their way, whatever hit they take this season they want to swallow whole next year. There have been predictions of as much as a $60M one year drop in the cap. This is absolutely not the time to be generous with your contracts, it's a time to be prudent.

Jamal Adams is under contract for a little over $13M for the next two years. The franchise tag for a safety this year is $11.4M - well below even the lowest estimates for JA hovering around $15M/year. They could potentially tag him twice before reaching the number he's looking for. How on Earth is signing him to a $16-18M/year deal better than what they already have him under control for? 

You can value him however you like. Be happy that the Jets have what you believe to be a top 15 defensive player at under-market rates, then. They'd be absolutely foolish to pay him this year, which is why they won't.  

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9 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Regardless of what position he plays Id value Jamal as a top 15 defensive player in the NFL.

Joe Schobert does 90-95 % of what Jamal Adams does and put up comparable stats last year.  Contract:  $10.8M per season.  

Put whatever subjective value you want on him.  His actual impact is that of about a $13M a year player, not a $20M a year player.  

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On 7/19/2020 at 11:47 AM, GreekJet said:

You act as if paying Adams is going to cripple the Jets financially and I just don’t see it. There are plenty of teams that have a 20MM+ player on defense and are competitive. If the Jets trade Adams for a late first and use the cap space on a guy like Allen Robinson is that good business? Trade a guy who is on a HOF trajectory in his prime because of “positional value”?  
 

You throw out all these hypotheticals, but the reality is if the Jets don’t start drafting better it’s not going to matter. It’s been proven time and again that you can’t patchwork these holes in free agency. The idea is to draft and develop your own talent and supplement your young core through free agency. 

If the Jets don’t start drafting better and it doesn’t matter, then why are they supposed to pay a strong safety “well above” $20MM/year as he is demanding?

He is tied to the team for the next 4 years for a ****load less than $80-90MM. What possible purpose would it serve? Making a loudmouth quiet for a little while? Hardly a good reason.

To your last point, no that is not correct. The “idea” is to put together the best team possible, however that happens. Paying $22MM/year for a single player, of debatable importance, whom the team already has tied up for some $25MM total for the next 3 years is pure stupidity. 

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On 7/19/2020 at 12:50 PM, bitonti said:

The Jets are under the cap floor they do eventually have to pay someone. It serves the purpose of building locker room morale and planning for the next big extension (Darnold?) 

I agree they don't have to pay him 20 but someone in this thread said he's worth 13 and worse than Honey Badger - that's inaccurate 

he's worth about 15-17 and that's what he's going to get eventually 

high draft picks are worth  their weight in gold 

exactly because of this Jamal Adams situation

sh|tburger teams like the Jets can force players to play for them at reduced rates during the prime of their career 

they can also be traded for more picks and the cycle of never paying anyone serious money continues 

if life used draft picks we'd understand how crap it is to be told you're moving to Cleveland against your will 

 No, that is a bit too much to pay for locker room morale for 1 player.

If the team has him already locked up for the next 2 seasons at ~$10MM and then the franchise tag after that will be at most $15MM and the repeated tag after that is $18MM - all one year deals where the team can’t get stuck with a permanently-injured player - what kind of idiot even entertains locking the team into anywhere near $20MM (let alone in excess of that amount) per year, where the team is on the hook for the injury guarantees?

And the truth is he’s not going to be happy unless he gets in that range, so it’s just as dumb to pay up for no reason, only to have him complaining again in a year or two. Yes even a team like the Jets can force him to play at those rates, or he doesn’t play at all. If he whines and causes locker room problems the team can suspend him. Thems are the facts.

Sorry, but he’s not that valuable. Teams don’t have their hands forced by strong safeties coming off career seasons - when he conveniently sat out his hardest matchup - let alone when the league is facing reduced revenue and a lower cap ceiling. He's a terrific player, but his impact is greatly overstated.  

And the “if Cleveland couldn’t parlay picks into a champion then no one can” mantra is as poor a defense as ever.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If the Jets don’t start drafting better and it doesn’t matter, then why are they supposed to pay a strong safety “well above” $20MM/year as he is demanding?

He is tied to the team for the next 4 years for a ****load less than $80-90MM. What possible purpose would it serve? Making a loudmouth quiet for a little while? Hardly a good reason.

To your last point, no that is not correct. The “idea” is to put together the best team possible, however that happens. Paying $22MM/year for a single player, of debatable importance, whom the team already has tied up for some $25MM total for the next 3 years is pure stupidity. 

Nobody is advocating handing Jamal a blank check, but 18-20MM is certainly reasonable for a player of his caliber. Ignore the fact that he’s under contract for “x” amount of years-it’s not that simple. Joe Douglas has stressed “building the best culture” in sports from day 1, he can’t accomplish that with his best player feuding with the organization. 
 

The three options are:

1) Trade him 

2) Pay him 

3) let him play this year unhappy and figure it out next year

The Jets are likely going with option 3, but it would be best to get this situation resolved one way or the other. My point is that there really is no excuse not to want to lock this player up given where the Jets roster is right now. If they don’t sign Jamal the cap space will go to a second tier player that makes it to free agency from another team. 

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6 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Nobody is advocating handing Jamal a blank check, but 18-20MM is certainly reasonable for a player of his caliber. Ignore the fact that he’s under contract for “x” amount of years-it’s not that simple. Joe Douglas has stressed “building the best culture” in sports from day 1, he can’t accomplish that with his best player feuding with the organization. 
 

The three options are:

1) Trade him 

2) Pay him 

3) let him play this year unhappy and figure it out next year

The Jets are likely going with option 3, but it would be best to get this situation resolved one way or the other. My point is that there really is no excuse not to want to lock this player up given where the Jets roster is right now. If they don’t sign Jamal the cap space will go to a second tier player that makes it to free agency from another team. 

The roster will be in a different place by the time Adams' rookie deal ends.  Darnold will be in extension territory, for starters.

If the plan is to have Adams play without a new deal for 1-2 seasons, then you have to give Douglas the chance to re-shape the roster in that span and then reevaluate.  That's definitely an "excuse".

In no scenario is it a good idea to just give Adams what he's asking for.  Not now, not 1 year from now, not 2 or even 3 years from now.  Play out the rookie deal and franchise tag him twice if you want to.  Or trade him.  

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On 7/23/2020 at 5:37 AM, GreekJet said:

Nobody is advocating handing Jamal a blank check, but 18-20MM is certainly reasonable for a player of his caliber. Ignore the fact that he’s under contract for “x” amount of years-it’s not that simple. Joe Douglas has stressed “building the best culture” in sports from day 1, he can’t accomplish that with his best player feuding with the organization. 
 

The three options are:

1) Trade him 

2) Pay him 

3) let him play this year unhappy and figure it out next year

The Jets are likely going with option 3, but it would be best to get this situation resolved one way or the other. My point is that there really is no excuse not to want to lock this player up given where the Jets roster is right now. If they don’t sign Jamal the cap space will go to a second tier player that makes it to free agency from another team. 

Yeah I’ll just leave it at this: there’s literally not one opinion I agree with here from start to finish.

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On 7/18/2020 at 10:15 AM, Morrissey said:

If he’s the “2nd best defensive player in the NFL”

than Jets should be able to get what raiders received for Mack.

“The Raiders have reportedly sent Khalil Mack, a 2020 second-round pick and a conditional 2020 fifth-round pick to the Bears for a 2019 first-round pick, 2020 first-round pick, and 2019 sixth-round pick, according to Adam Schefter. The Khalil Mack standoff is reportedly over.’

Damn this happened 

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On 7/17/2020 at 7:50 PM, Beerfish said:

Good yes.

Good safety yes.

Good in the box safety yes.

A guy that moves he needle?  No.

A guy that is going to be paid far more than he is worth?  Yes

A guy that is a royal pain in the ass and has a questionable attitude?  Yes.

No one, even his biggest critics disputes him being a good in the box safety.

 

the only question about his attitude is how awful it is on a scale of 1 to 10..

otherwise spot on post..

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Jamal is a great player and I wish him well. I am anxious to see him against the NFC West teams, all of whom have very bright offensive minded HCs. Adams is a student of the game and playing 6 games per year against those guys he’ll be trying to earn his Ph.D.

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13 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Jamal is a great player and I wish him well. I am anxious to see him against the NFC West teams, all of whom have very bright offensive minded HCs. Adams is a student of the game and playing 6 games per year against those guys he’ll be trying to earn his Ph.D.

Kyler Murray, George Kittle and Tyler Higbee are gonna eat Jamal's lunch.

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Kyler Murray, George Kittle and Tyler Higbee are gonna eat Jamal's lunch.

Two teams that live on play action and one with a jack rabbit at QB. There is a lot of opportunity for embarrassment for a S that likes to play at the line of scrimmage. 

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