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GASE MUST ADJUST


THE BARON
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16 hours ago, SAR I said:

And just how do you think that Adam Gase took a 1-7 pathetic joke of an offense and got it to finish the year a very respectable 6-2?

Adam Gase adjusted his ass off last year, it should be the least of your concerns this year.  Gase has proven himself a good head coach, no doubt the best we've had since Parcells in terms of overcoming obstacles, professionalism, decorum, locker room focus, and adjusting to personnel far different from that which had been projected at the start of the season.

If the Jets are to struggle, it's because of the lack of playmakers and depth on offense.  The Idzik/Maccagnan damage can't be fixed in a single offseason.

SAR I

It took Sam Friging Darnold to have a conversation with him about his offense and how he was being used, before he changed anything to help Sam out. That can't be the way this guy adjusts...

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20 hours ago, THE BARON said:

THE BARON COMMENTS:  And this would call for more designed pocket shifts and misdirection

Why?

Because we all think a QB with mono, symptoms being body aches and lethargy, along with a risk of an oversized spleen rupturing, should be moved around a pocket, for what reason?  I know its become cliche to just move him around and for some unknown reason decide Darnold cant pass in the pocket.  Since when?  

Its like how didn't we run the offense?  And it was bad so all we had to do was something different.  Who cares that we weren't constructed that way.  

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17 hours ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

Yep. 

The AFC East is the worst division in football right now. No excuses this year, the division is up for grabs.

The AFCE was better than the AFCN a year ago, who got better in the north? 

The AFCS is better how?

AFCW is better how

 

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

This is all well and good, but it’s not how a developmental program works. You start out hammering home the fundamentals if the program and then as the student masters those, you give them some rope to expand upon those original guidelines, implementing a customizing elements that suit his talents. Hemingway had to learn the alphabet and basic grammar before he became a writer. 

Right.  Position coaches are there to help with fundamentals.  Regardless, they have to get past fundamentals and muscle memory and on to a system a and playbook that puts their manpower in the best position to win...

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Are you aware that Andy Reid once coached the Eagles and was notorious for repeatedly sh*tting the bed? 

True but still I’ll take bunch losses/ sh*tting bed in championship games and super bowls . Over whatever it is Gase offers. 
 

hell we sh*t the bed in 2 championship games and that was like the best moment of our jets lives. 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Why?

Because we all think a QB with mono, symptoms being body aches and lethargy, along with a risk of an oversized spleen rupturing, should be moved around a pocket, for what reason?  I know its become cliche to just move him around and for some unknown reason decide Darnold cant pass in the pocket.  Since when?  

Its like how didn't we run the offense?  And it was bad so all we had to do was something different.  Who cares that we weren't constructed that way.  

When Darnold returned from mono, he was symptom free and there was no danger to his spleen.  This came from doctors. Some of the best.

And I agree with you to a point that Darnold can throw from the pocket.  Of course he can.  But he also has abilities that should be taken advantage of and incorporated into the overall offensive scheme.

Gase's offense has a lot of the short passing "West Coast" style offense built into it and it also has some of the vertical passing version of "West Coast".  All of it revolves around a static pocket.  Execution depends on precise routs, timing and pinpoint ball placement.  

Sam can execute some of that stuff, but he is best suited for a different base offense.  With Darnold and Bell, the Jets offense should be doing something along the lines of what Gibbs, Bugel and Henning were doing with the Redskins offense in the 1980's.  

We know Sam can pass from the pocket.  We also know he can and should be doing a lot more of what his abilities and instincts compel him to do.  Hence his little talk with Adam Gase...

With a QB like Darnold, if you dont see motion and misdirection as a staple in your passing game, the reason is that your OC is clueless. And that goes double if your QB is Darnold and your ball carrier is Bell.  

 

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21 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

When Darnold returned from mono, he was symptom free and there was no danger to his spleen.  This came from doctors. Some of the best.

And I agree with you to a point that Darnold can throw from the pocket.  Of course he can.  But he also has abilities that should be taken advantage of and incorporated into the overall offensive scheme.

Gase's offense has a lot of the short passing "West Coast" style offense built into it and it also has some of the vertical passing version of "West Coast".  All of it revolves around a static pocket.  Execution depends on precise routs, timing and pinpoint ball placement.  

Sam can execute some of that stuff, but he is best suited for a different base offense.  With Darnold and Bell, the Jets offense should be doing something along the lines of what Gibbs, Bugel and Henning were doing with the Redskins offense in the 1980's.  

We know Sam can pass from the pocket.  We also know he can and should be doing a lot more of what his abilities and instincts compel him to do.  Hence is little talk with Adam Gase...

With a QB like Darnold, if you dont see motion and misdirection as a staple in your passing game, the reason is that your OC is clueless. And that goes double if your QB is Darnold and your ball carrier is Bell.  

 

Why did Darnold where a flak jacket if there was no danger to his spleen?

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For  anyone defending Gase, can you explain what our gameplay was against the winless Bengals?

The main poster is 100% correct, Gase has consistently tried to "implement HIS system" rather then tweaking his offense to his players.  That NEVER works.  Great coaches simply adapt; the patriots have bounced between 3-4 and 4-3 for years depending on their personnel, the ravens changed their entire offense to fit Lamar Jackson - did you see them trying to make him a pocket passer?

Gase even had an example of this in his own locker room seeing what GW did with the defense when he realized he couldn't play man and had to protect his CBs.  

If Gase didnt spend the offseason going through what Mike McCarthy did with Rogers, what Andy Reid has done with Mahomes, and what Tennessee did with Tannenhill and their outside zone system to incorporate those things into his offense then not only will he fail as a HC here, he will never be more then a QB coach ever again.

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7 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Why did Darnold where a flak jacket if there was no danger to his spleen?

he could have played without one.  im sure they felt every bit of precaution was good regardless.  it may also have made him feel safer, hence play with a clear head. 

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53 minutes ago, BCJet said:

For  anyone defending Gase, can you explain what our gameplay was against the winless Bengals?

Sure, the moment you can explain what our gameplan was against the Cowboys, Raiders, and Steelers.

SAR I

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2 hours ago, 68JET11 said:

It took Sam Friging Darnold to have a conversation with him about his offense and how he was being used, before he changed anything to help Sam out. That can't be the way this guy adjusts...

Sam Frigging Darnold was too proud to admit that the problem was his learning curve, not his physical abilities.  Once he did, Adam Gase obliged and helped Sam out.  Gase can't fix what he doesn't know to be the problem.  If Darnold was having mental issues on the field, he wasn't showing it in practice.  

We have actual evidence here, you know:

1.  Peyton Manning completely credits Adam Gase for resurrecting his career by designing a new offense to compensate for his physical limitations after the neck surgery.

2.  The Jets finished 6-2 with an offense that looked nothing like the one they put on the field in the preseason.

Gase knows how to adjust.  This is a silly thing to criticize him for.  Stick to the "he's an arrogant narcissist" narrative.  There's no factual proof there, you get troll that for another year with impunity.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Sam Frigging Darnold was too proud to admit that the problem was his learning curve, not his physical abilities.  Once he did, Adam Gase obliged and helped Sam out.  Gase can't fix what he doesn't know to be the problem.  If Darnold was having mental issues on the field, he wasn't showing it in practice.  

Not buying it...

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11 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Not buying it...

Oh, you're allowed to make up stories and I'm not?

I'm not buying your nonsense that Adam Gase is some front office monster.  There is no evidence of this.  Frank Gore comes here in his last seasons to, what, get abused?  Demarious Thomas is here because, why, no other NFL teams want him?  Sam Darnold has nothing but nice things to say because, why, he is afraid to speak?  Peyton Manning has staked his reputation on Adam Gase, why, because he's bored?

SAR I

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8 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Oh, you're allowed to make up stories and I'm not?

I'm not buying your nonsense that Adam Gase is some front office monster.  There is no evidence of this.  Frank Gore comes here in his last seasons to, what, get abused?  Demarious Thomas is here because, why, no other NFL teams want him?  Sam Darnold has nothing but nice things to say because, why, he is afraid to speak?  Peyton Manning has staked his reputation on Adam Gase, why, because he's bored?

SAR I

Never once said he was a monster... I just want to see more out of him this year in terms of his coaching adjustments... That's all I'm saying.

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32 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Never once said he was a monster... I just want to see more out of him this year in terms of his coaching adjustments... That's all I'm saying.

You will.  Having 11 capable starters should make a big difference.  He had about 2 last year.

SAR I

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On 7/23/2020 at 5:01 PM, SAR I said:

We went 7-9 last year with the most starters/players on IR in team history and a sick or XFL-caliber quarterback for half the year.  I know you're not a denier, so I don't need to elaborate.

Its simple math:  The Jets would have gone 10-6 last year if perfectly healthy and we are a better team this year than last year.

Dolphins are rebuilding, Patriots are over, Bills don't have a quarterback.  The division is ours.

SAR I

Hold on a second ... you're saying we were poor last year because of health, yet blame Joe D elsewhere for us not having enough talent? Which was it - health or talent?

If healthy players = 10-6 and playoffs then we had the talent to be a playoff team. But you say elsewhere that the roster was the problem.

Is this the old "Joe D should only sign players that don't get injured / sick" argument? :-) 

 

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10 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Hold on a second ... you're saying we were poor last year because of health, yet blame Joe D elsewhere for us not having enough talent? Which was it - health or talent?

If healthy players = 10-6 and playoffs then we had the talent to be a playoff team. But you say elsewhere that the roster was the problem.

Is this the old "Joe D should only sign players that don't get injured / sick" argument? :-) 

 

I have nothing against Joe Douglas, just saying that Adam as proven something here while Joe has not yet had the chance to.  Joe signed a bad offensive linemen and a couple of kickers last year, he had no time to have an impact as he was hired late in the preseason.   He gets a pass.

We judge Joe starting now.  The clock just started ticking on him, but it's ticking-   if we open 0-4 and all the free agents and draft picks look bad I expect a plane to fly and the full weight of SOJF Nation to come down on his head.

SAR I

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4 hours ago, THE BARON said:

When Darnold returned from mono, he was symptom free and there was no danger to his spleen.  This came from doctors. Some of the best.

And I agree with you to a point that Darnold can throw from the pocket.  Of course he can.  But he also has abilities that should be taken advantage of and incorporated into the overall offensive scheme.

Gase's offense has a lot of the short passing "West Coast" style offense built into it and it also has some of the vertical passing version of "West Coast".  All of it revolves around a static pocket.  Execution depends on precise routs, timing and pinpoint ball placement.  

Sam can execute some of that stuff, but he is best suited for a different base offense.  With Darnold and Bell, the Jets offense should be doing something along the lines of what Gibbs, Bugel and Henning were doing with the Redskins offense in the 1980's.  

We know Sam can pass from the pocket.  We also know he can and should be doing a lot more of what his abilities and instincts compel him to do.  Hence his little talk with Adam Gase...

With a QB like Darnold, if you dont see motion and misdirection as a staple in your passing game, the reason is that your OC is clueless. And that goes double if your QB is Darnold and your ball carrier is Bell.  

 

When Darnold returned he was a high risk of damaging his spleen.  Mono is a 6-8, or more, illness.  That’s why we played when he came. Ack wearing a flak jacket.,

If you don’t think Sam isn’t perfectly suited for the offense that PM ran I’ll disagree.  That was the story everyone was selling before last season.  Including Sam.  That Sam throws well outside of the pocket is great.  He can make plays if flushed out by a rush.  That’s great.  Doesn’t mean he throws better scrambling around, running around than in a clean pocket.  The main complaints of the passing offense a year ago is that Gase did t abandon the longer plays given the OL & WR issues.

And again, regardless of your belief that he should always be in motion, he was at risk given his spleen, why put him at risk?
 

 

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9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Are you aware that Andy Reid once coached the Eagles and was notorious for repeatedly sh*tting the bed? 

Adam Gase has lost 9 games or more in each of the past 3 years.

Andy Reid has lost 9 games or more 3 times in 21 years (Yes, I was astonished as well)

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

When Darnold returned he was a high risk of damaging his spleen.  Mono is a 6-8, or more, illness.  That’s why we played when he came. Ack wearing a flak jacket.,

If you don’t think Sam isn’t perfectly suited for the offense that PM ran I’ll disagree.  That was the story everyone was selling before last season.  Including Sam.  That Sam throws well outside of the pocket is great.  He can make plays if flushed out by a rush.  That’s great.  Doesn’t mean he throws better scrambling around, running around than in a clean pocket.  The main complaints of the passing offense a year ago is that Gase did t abandon the longer plays given the OL & WR issues.

And again, regardless of your belief that he should always be in motion, he was at risk given his spleen, why put him at risk?
 

 

Again.  You are making fallacious statements.  I didn't say that Sam should always be in motion.  Clearly, you were not willing or able to understand the substance of my previous post.  I welcome discussion and even an argumentative discussion, but I'm not going to have any dialogue with a poster that deliberately misquotes and misconstrues language from other posts.  

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2 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Again.  You are making fallacious statements.  I didn't say that Sam should always be in motion.  Clearly, you were not willing or able to understand the substance of my previous post.  I welcome discussion and even an argumentative discussion, but I'm not going to have any dialogue with a poster that deliberately misquotes and misconstrues language from other posts.  

Actually you're making fallacious statements.  I said he had a spleen waiting to rupture.  A spleen protected with a flak jacket.  And that he shouldn't be put in a position to be hit more often by putting him in motion 

I'm being nice, no one is misquoting you.  You want to argue using cliches about motion with an injured QB, if you're to proud to say you forgot, fine move on.  Because that's two fans now who didn't get that was playing injured and hits were to be avoided at all costs.  And no one is arguing with you just pointing out that the guy you call a moron know more than you with this one.  

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51 minutes ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

 Gase absolutely will adjust. He's going to have a nice round table meeting with the coaches and inform them that Jamal Adams will be watching from the couch this season cuz he's suspended indefinitely- AHAHAHA!!

Kick rocks puppy boy-

imageproxy.jpg

Gregg Williams already has a nice warm spot for Jamal all lined up.

SAR I

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On 7/23/2020 at 7:07 PM, SAR I said:

Tell me how last year wasn't the perfect example of Gase adapting.  Half his starting offense was on IR by Halloween.  He lost not one, but two quarterbacks.  When Darnold returned, he wasn't himself for weeks and the crew of receivers looked nothing like training camp.

If there is one thing Gase proved last season it was that he can adapt.  Can change.  Can make an offense productive without the proper personnel.  Can make the adjustments on-the-fly to get first downs and get points.

The Jets were 1-7, they had 20 players out, and they were underdogs in all of their last 8 games.  Yet they went 6-2.  That's great coaching.

SAR I

He used the same gameplan ever game no matter what players suited up. That is not adapting.

 

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9 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

He used the same gameplan ever game no matter what players suited up. That is not adapting.

 

HIs ability to design a flawless first drive before completely falling apart also highlights this issue.  If he has six days to put a drive together, he was actually fantastic.  However, you only get six days to prepare for the first drive of the game.  From there you do it on the fly and as bad as the Jets were on offense, they were infinitely worse in drives that Gase didn't have a week to prepare for.

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Gotta go with Sar here. The AFC East crown is easily within reach. Pat's are a huge question mark and worse than 2019 for sure. Miami is garbage. IMHO Buffalo seems to be the team that will give us a run for the money. I just hope we get out to a quick start this year.
Why exactly is Miami garbage ... Please elaborate. Drafting Tua was a bad move ? I think the fins are basically where we are ... Right behind the Bills, who are right behind the Pats .. people betting against Belichick must have been borne yesterday ... Guy has turned garbage into gold endless times.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

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On 7/23/2020 at 11:35 AM, SAR I said:

The Gase offense ran like a hot knife through butter as we racked up a 6-2 record with the most pathetic set of linemen and receivers in team history.

Gase isn't the problem.  The roster is.  The heat should be on Douglas.  He's the one who hasn't proven anything yet.

SAR I

You're only partially correct. From the standpoint of talent on the roster and drafting? I'm right there with you. No one, and I'd really be surprised if anyone else came close, could boast such absolute futility when it came to drafting. From an objective point of view, Mac had no business being employed by the NYJ after the 2016 season. 

With that said, the jury is still very much out on Gase. He certainly earned the opportunity to coach this team another season but he's treading on thin ice. Going 6-2 against 8 of the very worst teams in football doesn't mean anything. The Jets offense isn't even in the same league as the Broncos offense with Manning. 

And the heat is NOT on Douglas. He's going through that unspoken "honeymoon period" with the team. It's the unspoken rule that everyone gets rewarded with simply by getting hired.

The heat is on Gase to start to build the high flying offense that his work history illustrates. Douglas added SOME nice pieces (not all, a lot of the pieces he added are risky at best. The return at best is likely still below average) but Gase needs to show a gradual improvements in offensive rankings or else he must be fired.

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22 hours ago, SAR I said:

Sure, the moment you can explain what our gameplan was against the Cowboys, Raiders, and Steelers.

SAR I

What?  I know football details aren't really your thing but wins against those 3 teams is what you want to argue FOR Adam Gase?

Dallas was a good offensive performance but the raiders were a 7-9 team and our defense held Jacobs to 34 yards rushing and carr to under 150 passing - was that Gase?  And Pittsburgh?  We scored 16 points - what a gameplan.

We lost to the 2 worst teams in football, both of which were games we needed to win, and against the Bengals only scored 6 points with Bell rushing for 32 yards.  Do you know which team allowed the most rushing yards in the league last year - yep, the Bengals. Yet we gave Bell 10 carries - is that smart coaching?

 

 

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On 7/23/2020 at 7:38 PM, JetsLife said:

That's great comedy. 

The NFL was quaking in fear of the Gase-led Jets offense the latter half of '19. They were putting up unheard of points, slicing their way to the playoffs.

This said yes - Gase had a sh-t hand to work with last year AFTER the injuries mounted. He deserves much credit for galvanizing the lads after such a nightmarish start.

But why is it I never hear a good response from you for that egregious offensive performance week 1 at home? Each game is roughly 7 percent of the season so every game is critical, and Gase had all offseason to prepare for week 1 - and his offense is gifted 4 turnovers and comes up with 16 points? In an offense-driven league?

A truly great HC like Andy Reid never ever sh-ts the bed like Gase did week 1 and in other weeks last season. He's the only HC ever to lose to an 0-7 team and 0-11 team in the same season.

I hope I'm wrong about Gase, I truly do. Everything I've seen about him dictates he has the football skills, but lacks the always killer instinct.

Fun fact our week 1 game was against the Bills.  No. 2 in points allowed in the NFL in 2019.  They allowed barely over 16 per.  The Bills allowed the Giants 14 in week 2, The Bengals 17 in week 3, the Pats 16 in week 4 and TN 7 in week 5 before their bye. 

I believe Sam played with mono in week 1.

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8 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

You're only partially correct. From the standpoint of talent on the roster and drafting? I'm right there with you. No one, and I'd really be surprised if anyone else came close, could boast such absolute futility when it came to drafting. From an objective point of view, Mac had no business being employed by the NYJ after the 2016 season. 

With that said, the jury is still very much out on Gase. He certainly earned the opportunity to coach this team another season but he's treading on thin ice. Going 6-2 against 8 of the very worst teams in football doesn't mean anything. The Jets offense isn't even in the same league as the Broncos offense with Manning. 

And the heat is NOT on Douglas. He's going through that unspoken "honeymoon period" with the team. It's the unspoken rule that everyone gets rewarded with simply by getting hired.

The heat is on Gase to start to build the high flying offense that his work history illustrates. Douglas added SOME nice pieces (not all, a lot of the pieces he added are risky at best. The return at best is likely still below average) but Gase needs to show a gradual improvements in offensive rankings or else he must be fired.

dkmpleivkenjpdr8eeel

The heat is on this guy.  Dowell Loggains is entering his 7th year as an NFL offensive coordinator, making him one of the longest tenured offensive coordinators in the league.

Adam Gase has proven he is a good, maybe great, head coach.  He's not an offensive coordinator.

SAR I

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6 hours ago, BCJet said:

What?  I know football details aren't really your thing but wins against those 3 teams is what you want to argue FOR Adam Gase?

My point is, if you have an issue with the Jets losses to Miami and Cincinnati then you should damn well be impressed by our surprising wins over Dallas, Oakland, and Pittsburgh.  How does a team pathetic enough to lose to 0-7 and 0-11 teams beat those three contenders in the same time period?  Tell me.  I'm waiting

6 hours ago, BCJet said:

We lost to the 2 worst teams in football, both of which were games we needed to win, and against the Bengals only scored 6 points with Bell rushing for 32 yards.  Do you know which team allowed the most rushing yards in the league last year - yep, the Bengals. Yet we gave Bell 10 carries - is that smart coaching?

Bell had 10 touches for 32 yards.  If Gase didn't reduce his touches then I'd be upset.  Sometimes a player doesn't show up.  Coaches can only do so much.  If Le'Veon Bell is one of the highest paid RB's in the NFL he should have had 50 or 60 yards on such a pathetic 0-11 defense.

SAR I

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12 hours ago, AFJF said:

HIs ability to design a flawless first drive before completely falling apart also highlights this issue.  If he has six days to put a drive together, he was actually fantastic.  However, you only get six days to prepare for the first drive of the game.  From there you do it on the fly and as bad as the Jets were on offense, they were infinitely worse in drives that Gase didn't have a week to prepare for.

Flawless first drive is one way to describe it, I suppose more accurately probably  not top half of the league probably bottom ten. 

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