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20 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Yes we are talking about professional athletes in this thread. There is no risk of losing 5% lung capacity. It’s the equivalent of not going outside because you think a frozen turd is going to fall from an airplane and kill you.

And I thought your football posts were ridiculous. 

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What in the world is going on over there? Sport all over Europe pretty much went off without a hitch - most soccer leagues have just finished up. Just copy the Germans. Always copy the Germa

no one could have predicted this....

Fitting that Derek Jeter would ruin all of sports and, by extension, America.

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3 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

Did you read those articles? They are both hypothetical and refer to a small subset of cases for folks with pre existing conditions. 

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24 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Yes we are talking about professional athletes in this thread. There is no risk of losing 5% lung capacity. It’s the equivalent of not going outside because you think a frozen turd is going to fall from an airplane and kill you.

152k people dead. 4.45 million cases. let me know when the risk of being hit by frozen poo comes anywhere near this

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1 minute ago, neckdemon said:

152k people dead. 4.45 million cases. let me know when the risk of being hit by frozen poo comes anywhere near this

Ok clearly you are terrible at math. If you look at the number of deaths from people that fit the psychical profile of a 20-30 year old professional athlete and calculate a death rate based on the estimated real number of cases from the WHO (at least 10x greater than reported because of asymptomatic/mild cases) the death rate for this group of people is literally lower than being hit by lightning. That is not hyperbole, that is fact. 

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3 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Did you read those articles? They are both hypothetical and refer to a small subset of cases for folks with pre existing conditions. 

the first isnt hypothetical. and the 2 big pre-exisitng conditions? being overweight and having a psychiatric condition. both of which exist in the nfl. the 2nd is more hypothetical but still highly plausible. at least more plausible than your assertion that "there is no risk of losing lung capacity". especially when it's being reported that people are being left with permanent lung scarring

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3 minutes ago, nico002 said:

So now we are dealing in baseless hypotheticals? Should we all stay inside for 5 years in case covid has a dormant symptom that takes 5 years to develop? 

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

The topic at hand is not what we "should" all do.  The question at hand is what should professional athletes do?  because they make their living being in elite physical condition.  Elite.

You don't know so you tell them it is OK to take that risk.  Let me repeat.  You don't know and so you are guessing.  You have provided ZERO references to support your side of this argument here.  None.  Numerous people on the other side of the discussion have provided plenty evidence that the questions at the very least are legitimate questions to ask.

Yet you do not feel those questions should be raised.

You don't know and yet act as if you do know. Think about that for a moment.  We will all wait for that.  I know it might take some effort but I am sure you can do it.  There now, that feels better doesn't it?

You want other people to place their bets with their careers and with their lives as if all of the answers are already locked into the books.  You want this to happen because you know all about the long-term dangers of this disease.

You seriously could not adopt a more utterly stupid position if you decided to argue that the earth is really flat.  Did I mention the utterness of the stupidity here? I am dancing on the edge of breaking a Jetsnation rule so i want to be clear that while it is not my position that you yourself are stupid, just the positions that your are taking fit that description.

I know he going to miss the field goal so dont take the kick.  I know he will make the field goal so don't take the kick. <sigh>

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6 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Ok clearly you are terrible at math. If you look at the number of deaths from people that fit the psychical profile of a 20-30 year old professional athlete and calculate a death rate based on the estimated real number of cases from the WHO (at least 10x greater than reported because of asymptomatic/mild cases) the death rate for this group of people is literally lower than being hit by lightning. That is not hyperbole, that is fact. 

please report the number of people hit by frozen poo......i'm guessing it's less than 4.45 million

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6 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

The topic at hand is not what we "should" all do.  The question at hand is what should professional athletes do?  because they make their living being in elite physical condition.  Elite.

You don't know so you tell them it is OK to take that risk.  Let me repeat.  You don't know and so you are guessing.  You have provided ZERO references to support your side of this argument here.  None.  Numerous people on the other side of the discussion have provided plenty evidence that the questions at the very least are legitimate questions to ask.

Yet you do not feel those questions should be raised.

You don't know and yet act as if you do know. Think about that for a moment.  We will all wait for that.  I know it might take some effort but I am sure you can do it.  There now, that feels better doesn't it?

You want other people to place their bets with their careers and with their lives as if all of the answers are already locked into the books.  You want this to happen because you know all about the long-term dangers of this disease.

You seriously could not adopt a more utterly stupid position if you decided to argue that the earth is really flat.  Did I mention the utterness of the stupidity here? I am dancing on the edge of breaking a Jetsnation rule so i want to be clear that while it is not my position that you yourself are stupid, just the positions that your are taking fit that description.

I know he going to miss the field goal so dont take the kick.  I know he will make the field goal so don't take the kick. <sigh>

a professional athlete should not throw away a year of their prime, develop rust that potentially will never go away, to avoid a hypothetical symptom that has an infinitesimal likelihood of actually impacting them. I don't have to prove anything, you are the one making absurd medical claims without providing any evidence. You are the one being obtuse. 

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5 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

please report the number of people hit by frozen poo......i'm guessing it's less than 4.45 million

Number of Fox News viewers in Alaska?

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12 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Like poop through a goose. Well, Florida is approaching NJ's poop through a goose number pretty quickly by percentage of gooses to poop. I'm sure that number will be coming down.

New Jersey peaked on April 23rd and have steadily been going down since. I doubt they were at goose pooping point then.

NJ has contributed around 10% (15k+) of the US covid deaths to this point. Fl has contributed (5k+) deaths. Those numbers will change clearly, but lets not act like FL sucks and NJ is awesome.

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15 minutes ago, nico002 said:

a professional athlete should not throw away a year of their prime, develop rust that potentially will never go away, to avoid a hypothetical symptom that has an infinitesimal likelihood of actually impacting them. I don't have to prove anything, you are the one making absurd medical claims without providing any evidence. You are the one being obtuse. 

And I am one of the several who have provided support for the questions being raised whereas you have not.  And so between the two of us I am not the one being obtuse here.

Players will decide to play or not play and that is their decision to make. i am sure they are being advised both medially and financially although that advice may not contain your received "wisdom" on the likelihood of being hit by frozen poo.  It may be a gamble that some are willing to take and others not.  The one certainty I think is clear to me is that 100% of them would agree that you have no idea what the effing eff you are talking about.

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5 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

NJ has contributed around 10% (15k+) of the US covid deaths to this point. Fl has contributed (5k+) deaths. Those numbers will change clearly, but lets not act like FL sucks and NJ is awesome.

The difference is that the Northeast got hit with cases coming in from Europe before there was any real awareness of the transmissibility of the disease.  I am not saying north east states get a 100% pass on early response but the initial slowness to ramp up the response is more understandable. In addition north east states had very little information to go on about which treatments and protocols worked and which did not.  I think everyone now is benefitting from that information.

Everyone else had more than enough warning 

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1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Yeah, well, perhaps it shouldn't run through everybody at once? Because that's going to put a serious cramp in the making a living thing.

I've been sliding food under the door for Grandma for a while now, I push it with a broomstick.  You?

Mine passed away a long time ago, old age. 

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16 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Just give me one more year. I think this may be the one. 

Crusher don't has da weaponz.  Get Crusher da weaponz. Super Bowlz aplenty if Crusher haz da weaponz.

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5 minutes ago, EM31 said:

And I am one of the several who have provided support for the questions being raised whereas you have not.  And so between the two of us I am not the one being obtuse here.

Players will decide to play or not play and that is their decision to make. i am sure they are being advised both medially and financially although that advice may not contain your received "wisdom" on the likelihood of being hit by frozen poo.  It may be a gamble that some are willing to take and others not.  The one certainty I think is clear to me is that 100% of them would agree that you have no idea what effing eff you are talking about.

idk there are a couple players who have said they think the earth is flat. they might be currently walking around, looking up like nico, in case they need to dodge some frozen doody

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1 hour ago, Gastineau Lives said:

AND WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

Because UNLIKE NY, NJ, they didn't have a mandate to return Covid patients to nursing homes, unlike the Dolt Governor Cuomo. Between that edict & constantly calling for more ventilators that killed 80% of patients that they were used on he did an amazing job. The idea that the idiot then criticizes anybody or any state as another beautiful example of the hypocracy so rampant in this country. 

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12 minutes ago, nico002 said:

The countries leading epidemiologist threw the first pitch at an MLB game last week... but yea there are significant chances of losing 5% lung capacity from playing. Got it.

In an otherwise empty stadium. So what is your point?

And it is not the risk of losing 5% lung capacity from playing.  Do try to keep up.  Should I use smaller words?  It is the risk of contracting the disease and possibly losing 5% lung capacity that is in question.  The risk is in conducting ANY Activity which includes people gathering and breathing close to one another and avoiding those activities where you have a choice to do so.

But I am glad to hear that you "got it"

 

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3 minutes ago, EM31 said:

The difference is that the Northeast got hit with cases coming in from Europe before there was any real awareness of the transmissibility of the disease.  I am not saying north east states get a 100% pass on early response but the initial slowness to ramp up the response is more understandable. In addition north east states had very little information to go on about which treatments and protocols worked and which did not.  I think everyone now is benefitting from that information.

Everyone else had more than enough warning 

Murphy made some mistakes for sure. But look at where NJ is right now compared to Florida. This after Desantis went pounding his chest about how great Florida's numbers were a month ago. I also happen to believe the theory going around that there's a possibility that the virus has mutated to become less deadly, which is a good thing. So NJ getting hit early but a more virulent version could have contributed to that. The point is there really isn't any good reason that Florida should have to be going through what they are right now. It could have been mitigated further if Desantis didn't take a premature victory lap

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2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Because UNLIKE NY, NJ, they didn't have a mandate to return Covid patients to nursing homes, unlike the Dolt Governor Cuomo. Between that edict & constantly calling for more ventilators that killed 80% of patients that they were used on he did an amazing job. The idea that the idiot then criticizes anybody or any state as another beautiful example of the hypocracy so rampant in this country. 

so cuomo was going to hospitals forcing doctors to use ventilators on patients who didn't need them? 

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1 minute ago, EM31 said:

The difference is that the Northeast got hit with cases coming in from Europe before there was any real awareness of the transmissibility of the disease.  I am not saying north east states get a 100% pass on early response but the initial slowness to ramp up the response is more understandable. In addition north east states had very little information to go on about which treatments and protocols worked and which did not.  I think everyone now is benefitting from that information.

Everyone else had more than enough warning 

Warnings don't mean much with an asymptomatic airborne virus. It's going to spread, as it has, regardless of warnings or past experiences. Just like we know about the flu and have vaccines and yet it spreads far and wide and kills 10's of thousands every year despite the knowledge of flu season. Yes, we know more now and it helps with treatment (despite people relying on retracted reports to vilify inexpensive effective treatment), but that doesn't make it any less transmittable.

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1 minute ago, neckdemon said:

so cuomo was going to hospitals forcing doctors to use ventilators on patients who didn't need them? 

Well, not all 40,000 (remember his plea for 40,000 ventilators after he irresponsibly did not prepare New York for something like Covid but had been warned YEARS AGO) of them but every Covid patient placed on a ventilator was each worth $32,000 paid by the government to cover it. FACT! 

My daughter is a nurse, one of my best freinds is in charge of emergency medicine at a LARGE hospital outside of Boston. Hospitals are PROFIT CENTERS. 

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2 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

so cuomo was going to hospitals forcing doctors to use ventilators on patients who didn't need them? 

I remember hearing about a month into the worst of it in NY about the simple act of turning a patient onto their stomach having a real impact on survival rates.  The day after I saw that on TV the mother of one of my team was given that treatment.  She eventually passed after nearly 50 day on a ventilator but people were desperate from anything this might work at that point.

You didn't hear?  Cuomo was passing secret order to Tri-state area doctors in a sub-channel of the MSNBC television feed.  I thought everyone knew that.

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1 minute ago, Embrace the Suck said:

Warnings don't mean much with an asymptomatic airborne virus. It's going to spread, as it has, regardless of warnings or past experiences. Just like we know about the flu and have vaccines and yet it spreads far and wide and kills 10's of thousands every year despite the knowledge of flu season. Yes, we know more now and it helps with treatment (despite people relying on retracted reports to vilify inexpensive effective treatment), but that doesn't make it any less transmittable.

It is not spreading anywhere near as much in Europe or the far East.  The virus finds it much more difficult to transmit through one or two masks.  Shocking revelation really.  I mean what about our freedoms after all?

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2 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Well, not all 40,000 (remember his plea for 40,000 ventilators after he irresponsibly did not prepare New York for something like Covid but had been warned YEARS AGO) of them but every Covid patient placed on a ventilator was each worth $32,000 paid by the government to cover it. FACT! 

My daughter is a nurse, one of my best freinds is in charge of emergency medicine at a LARGE hospital outside of Boston. Hospitals are PROFIT CENTERS. 

well I agree that we need a health care reform in this country

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1 minute ago, EM31 said:

It is not spreading anywhere near as much in Europe or the far East.  The virus finds it much more difficult to transmit through one or two masks.  Shocking revelation really.  I mean what about our freedoms after all?

dont you tell me what to do with my body as i try to tell women what they can and cant do with theirs

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3 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Well, not all 40,000 (remember his plea for 40,000 ventilators after he irresponsibly did not prepare New York for something like Covid but had been warned YEARS AGO) of them but every Covid patient placed on a ventilator was each worth $32,000 paid by the government to cover it. FACT! 

My daughter is a nurse, one of my best freinds is in charge of emergency medicine at a LARGE hospital outside of Boston. Hospitals are PROFIT CENTERS. 

So are insurance companies, drug companies, medical equipment manufacturers lots of lawyers.   So you are in favor of single payer health insurance like the rest of the world where the profit motive is taken out of the equation?

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1 hour ago, nico002 said:

Yes we are talking about professional athletes in this thread. There is no risk of losing 5% lung capacity. It’s the equivalent of not going outside because you think a frozen turd is going to fall from an airplane and kill you.

Nico, this is 100% flat-out wrong.  The risk is real for everyone, including 'world-class athletes'.  I have heard this from medical professionals, including one who works on COVID research in a virology lab at a top university, who know as much as anyone in the world about this.  Because we don't know there is NO risk, there is risk.  This is not debatable.  No professional would ever say at this point there is no risk of long term health implications to ANYONE.

Everyone gets to share opinions here, but you are digging in on so-called facts that are not true, and were anyone here to actually believe them, would be dangerous.  

Either start putting in words like "IMO" or "AFAIK" or stop posting in this thread and stick to other topics.  

I'm sorry if this sounds and feels heavy-handed, but this thread is getting hot and I'm just seconds away from locking it, mostly over these posts.

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why anyone would ever engage NICO in something that is supposed to require that you have a functioning brain to participate in, is wayyyyyy beyond MY comprehension....

know the audience 

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13 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

Murphy made some mistakes for sure. But look at where NJ is right now compared to Florida. This after Desantis went pounding his chest about how great Florida's numbers were a month ago. I also happen to believe the theory going around that there's a possibility that the virus has mutated to become less deadly, which is a good thing. So NJ getting hit early but a more virulent version could have contributed to that. The point is there really isn't any good reason that Florida should have to be going through what they are right now. It could have been mitigated further if Desantis didn't take a premature victory lap

According to statista, NJ has 178 COVID-19 deaths per 100K people, compared to Florida's 27.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

image.png.ac27e49a13b86c693dc1e40fbd5f0bde.png

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1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Nico, this is 100% flat-out wrong.  The risk is real for everyone, including 'world-class athletes'.  I have heard this from medical professionals, including one who works on COVID research in a virology lab at a top university, who know as much as anyone in the world about this.  Because we don't know there is NO risk, there is risk.  This is not debatable.  No professional would ever say at this point there is no risk of long term health implications to ANYONE.

Everyone gets to share opinions here, but you are digging in on so-called facts that are not true, and were anyone here to actually believe them, would be dangerous.  

Either start putting in words like "IMO" or "AFAIK" or stop posting in this thread and stick to other topics.  

I'm sorry if this sounds and feels heavy-handed, but this thread is getting hot and I'm just seconds away from locking it, mostly over these posts.

With all due respect good sir, Nico002 is helping immensely to make the case against his own positions.  Lock it if you must but the only thing more delicious than ridicule is someone who does not even cotton to the fact that he is making himself look ridiculous.

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29 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

Murphy made some mistakes for sure. But look at where NJ is right now compared to Florida. This after Desantis went pounding his chest about how great Florida's numbers were a month ago. I also happen to believe the theory going around that there's a possibility that the virus has mutated to become less deadly, which is a good thing. So NJ getting hit early but a more virulent version could have contributed to that. The point is there really isn't any good reason that Florida should have to be going through what they are right now. It could have been mitigated further if Desantis didn't take a premature victory lap

Florida unlike NY and NJ did not mandate infected but recovering nursing home patients had to be accepted back. And NY had the USS Comfort, the Javits Center and field hospitals in Central Park which could have been so used and were not.As per yesterday Florida, with a bigger population than either state, more elderly than anyone and  transient international travel contacts not different from NY and NJ, had 6049 COVID deaths. That is a tiny fraction of NY's 32,322 and less than half of  NJ's 13,884. (CDC website #s as of right now). 

Cuomo's mandate amounted to legally-mandated criminally negligent homicide on a grand scale. Ranting about drive up concerts and wings not being a meal like Kenny Bania is an intentional distraction from such malfeasance. 

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8 minutes ago, EM31 said:

So are insurance companies, drug companies, medical equipment manufacturers lots of lawyers.   So you are in favor of single payer health insurance like the rest of the world where the profit motive is taken out of the equation?

This is what my friend text me regarding Cities like Portland, Seattle, Chicago, screaming they don't want the feds involved with the rioting. 

The healthcare tab for the average trauma case is 100K...who do you think foots that bill? He says the Feds should say, not anymore! 

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