Sports is now on the precipice-Miami Marlins Covid

[Embrace the Suck]

21 minutes ago, EM31 said:

It is not spreading anywhere near as much in Europe or the far East.  The virus finds it much more difficult to transmit through one or two masks.  Shocking revelation really.  I mean what about our freedoms after all?

You're also assuming other countries test as much and they don't. The more you test the more you'll find. Shocking revelation indeed.  "According to the FIND database from June 14, India tests around 4,100 people per million compared with a global average of over 29,000 tests per million. " https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2020/07/02/how-well-is-india-responding-to-covid-19/

[kelticwizard]

8 hours ago, HessStation said:

The good old fashioned “you just wait and see”? 

 

Please explain to me Sweden then.

10MM people // 5700 deaths 

Connecticut 3.5MM people 4037 deaths

Sweden doesn't count because the people there have spent 40,000 years physically adapting to spending all their free time swimming in ice water and competing in "polar bear" events, which holds down virus transmission.  And we don't live in Sweden.

 

Meanwhile, back to two places where DO live, Connecticut and Florida, we have this, (remember that Florida has 6 times Connecticut's population):

 

That +5 deaths is for three days, not one.  So that's less than 2 deaths per day. Note the number of hospitalizations have also gone down.

Florida's stats for the one day:

Quote

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. – Florida reported 186 more residents’ deaths from COVID-19 on Tuesday, the most the state has announced in a day since the start of the pandemic. The health department also confirmed 9,230 new cases of COVID-19 in the state.

Increasing Connecticut's deaths by 6X to account for Florida's sixfold population advantage over Connecticut, that's 186 deaths per day in Florida compared to Connecticut's 12.

 

And you were saying???

 

[nycdan]

8 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Florida unlike NY and NJ did not mandate infected but recovering nursing home patients had to be accepted back. And NY had the USS Comfort, the Javits Center and field hospitals in Central Park which could have been so used and were not.As per yesterday Florida, with a bigger population than either state, more elderly than anyone and  transient international travel contacts not different from NY and NJ, had 6049 COVID deaths. That is a tiny fraction of NY's 32,322 and less than half of  NJ's 13,884. (CDC website #s as of right now). 

I think the cause for concern in FL isn't total cases, but the recent trend.  According to CDC data, here is the list of cases in the last 7 days by State.  I will admit I am surprised by how low NY/NJ were this past week.

https://www.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases

[kelticwizard]

8 hours ago, HessStation said:

The good old fashioned “you just wait and see”?

Oh, just one more thing-positivity rate for recent tests.

Connecticut's positivity rate is less than one percent.

 

 

Now here's Florida's positivity rate-varying daily between 15 and 11 percent.  That means there is worse news for Florida coming in the future.  Say, wasn't Florida the place that was allowing kids to go on spring break and forget about masks?  Remember that?  The governor was bragging about it.

 

[EM31]

6 minutes ago, Jetster said:

This is what my friend text me regarding Cities like Portland, Seattle, Chicago, screaming they don't want the feds involved with the rioting. 

The healthcare tab for the average trauma case is 100K...who do you think foots that bill? He says the Feds should say, not anymore! 

Please stop conflating two issues.  How to handle peaceful demonstrators is one thing.  How to handle rioters is something else entirely and there are very real disagreements about which is which and what approaches work the best.  The vast majority of demonstrations in the last two months or so have been 100% peaceful and the use of federalized armed forces to create political photo opportunities is unconstitutional and reeks of Fascist Germany in the 1930s

But none of that had thing-1 to do with who pays for the cost of care for COVID patients.  Not a thing.  Please do try to avoid let me muddy the waters by trying to walk about topic-B when pressed on the question of topic-A

"The Feds" as you call them are still us.  It is not some magical entity outside of the citizens of the 50 states.  It is the citizens of the 50 states and if you want to talk FACT instead of Fox News talking points, Governor Cuomo rightly points out that NY, NJ, California and Connecticut send vastly more off to Washington in Federal taxes each and every single year then the amount that they get back in the form of federal spending.  Is is the greatest multi-generational rip-off of all time.

If New Yorkers were not at their heart generous people, we would have something to say to States like Virginia, Kentucky, Alabama, Missouri and quite a few others who decade after decade line up at the Federal hand out counter to get their jobs and federal spending on the public t1tty.  Fox news never talks about that because those are mostly red states and "our people".

[neckdemon]

30 minutes ago, EM31 said:

So are insurance companies, drug companies, medical equipment manufacturers lots of lawyers.   So you are in favor of single payer health insurance like the rest of the world where the profit motive is taken out of the equation?

i'm at least in favor of giving people the choice. you wanna keep your private insurance? ok fine you waive your option for the single payer plan

[HessStation]

16 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Sweden doesn't count because the people there have spent 40,000 years physically adapting to spending all their free time swimming in ice water and competing in "polar bear" events, which holds down virus transmission.  And we don't live in Sweden.

 

Meanwhile, back to two places where DO live, Connecticut and Florida, we have this, (remember that Florida has 6 times Connecticut's population):

 

That +5 deaths is for three days, not one.  So that's less than 2 deaths per day. Note the number of hospitalizations have also gone down.

Florida's stats for the one day:

Increasing Connecticut's deaths by 6X to account for Florida's sixfold population advantage over Connecticut, that's 186 deaths per day in Florida compared to Connecticut's 12.

 

And you were saying???

 

I was saying CT has had 4K deaths w 3MM people and FL has 6k w 20mm people....CT is being celebrated FL is getting sh*t on. 
 

Death per capita seems like the best barometer to me unless I was a democrat or republican with confirmation bias. 

[nico002]

33 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Nico, this is 100% flat-out wrong.  The risk is real for everyone, including 'world-class athletes'.  I have heard this from medical professionals, including one who works on COVID research in a virology lab at a top university, who know as much as anyone in the world about this.  Because we don't know there is NO risk, there is risk.  This is not debatable.  No professional would ever say at this point there is no risk of long term health implications to ANYONE.

Everyone gets to share opinions here, but you are digging in on so-called facts that are not true, and were anyone here to actually believe them, would be dangerous.  

Either start putting in words like "IMO" or "AFAIK" or stop posting in this thread and stick to other topics.  

I'm sorry if this sounds and feels heavy-handed, but this thread is getting hot and I'm just seconds away from locking it, mostly over these posts.

You can’t live life in fear of unsubstantiated theoretical risks. Why are all sports leuages active if there was in fact a strong risk of career threatening illness from this? Why would the nations leading epidemiologist support the MLB returning is this was in fact a risk? Show me the study that 20-30 year old athletes are at high risk of developing long term lung disease and I might start taking you seriously.

[EM31]

19 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

You're also assuming other countries test as much and they don't. The more you test the more you'll find. Shocking revelation indeed.  "According to the FIND database from June 14, India tests around 4,100 people per million compared with a global average of over 29,000 tests per million. " https://www.brookings.edu/blog/future-development/2020/07/02/how-well-is-india-responding-to-covid-19/

The infection rate is low enough that they can rely on contact tracing about who to test.  Therefore they do fewer tests.  Unfortunately we are not in that position.

Look at the death counts for all you really need to know.  They have it under control and this administration does not.

[southtown24th]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

This is a different, and I feel a better one. You have to have the Epix Network.

The Eagles and Sonic Highways were also awesome!!!

Amazing!  I have Epix. I will give it a spin--I think, in my opinion, the best rock doc I have seen was The Eagles one, I just loved it...and I wasn't much of an Eagles guy before I watched it.,

[UntouchableCrew]

How can adults who can read and write not understand that the deaths were worse in the northeast because it was the first place to get seriously hit?

[nico002]

50 minutes ago, EM31 said:

In an otherwise empty stadium. So what is your point?

And it is not the risk of losing 5% lung capacity from playing.  Do try to keep up.  Should I use smaller words?  It is the risk of contracting the disease and possibly losing 5% lung capacity that is in question.  The risk is in conducting ANY Activity which includes people gathering and breathing close to one another and avoiding those activities where you have a choice to do so.

But I am glad to hear that you "got it"

 

Is this English? We are debating whether athletes should opt out of playing due to the risk of losing 5% lung capacity from contracting the disease while playing right? 

[HessStation]

8 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

How can adults who can read and write not understand that the deaths were worse in the northeast because it was the first place to get seriously hit?

As in, different timeframes, life cycles? Of course. Basically why I’m saying is call me when FL hits 31k deaths like in NY.  The partisan political narratives are gross. 

[EM31]

14 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

i'm at least in favor of giving people the choice. you wanna keep your private insurance? ok fine you waive your option for the single payer plan

Everyone needs to be covered even if that means I personally get a slightly less Rolls-Royce coverage.

The rest of the world spends less per-capita than US and we have somewhere in the low-20s health outcomes. I don't know what the best system is but the one we have is not working

[Bugg]

5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

How can adults who can read and write not understand that the deaths were worse in the northeast because it was the first place to get seriously hit?

Again though NY and to a lesser extent NJ returned recovering elderly COVID patients back into nursing homes and failed to utilize readily-available alternatives. And NYC despite being told early on the subway being a bum dormitory kept the subways open and cleaned once every few days well into March. Don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of other states beside the CDC statistics. But am very familiar with the absolute disaster NY has been and continues to be. 

[UntouchableCrew]

5 minutes ago, HessStation said:

As in, different timeframes, life cycles? Of course. Basically why I’m saying is call me when FL hits 31k deaths like in NY.  The partisan political narratives are gross. 

What's partisan about it? California has also done an awful job. We can be honest and just point out that these states that are exploding (including California and Florida) have done a dreadful job despite having the foresight of seeing how it played out in the Northeast.

[UntouchableCrew]

3 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Again though NY and to a lesser extent NJ returned recovering elderly COVID patients back into nursing homes and failed to utilize readily-available alternatives. And NYC despite being told early on the subway being a bum dormitory kept the subways open and cleaned once every few days well into March. Don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of other states beside the CDC statistics. But am very familiar with the absolute disaster NY has been and continues to be. 

If the rest of the country reacted to this like New York did we'd be reopening right now and sports wouldn't be in jeopardy. We've completely flattened this thing. No doubt we bungled it early (the entire world did) but similar to most of Europe NY responded and flattened it.

Bizarre to me people can't seem to look at the facts and wrap their heads around that.

[nico002]

2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

What's partisan about it? California has also done an awful job. We can be honest and just point out that these states that are exploding (including California and Florida) have done a dreadful job despite having the foresight of seeing how it played out in the Northeast.

California had the most strict lock down of any state in the country 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, neckdemon said:

Murphy made some mistakes for sure. But look at where NJ is right now compared to Florida. 

On which measure has Jersey been better or safer? If your measure is positive tests at the current moment then sure. The horizontal axis/timeline is virtually meaningless. The mortality rates between the two states aren't close either.

[UntouchableCrew]

Just now, nico002 said:

California had the most strict lock down of any state in the country 

But re-opened too early. Newsome and the So Cal local government deserves blame too.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If the rest of the country reacted to this like New York did we'd be reopening right now and sports wouldn't be in jeopardy. We've completely flattened this thing. No doubt we bungled it early (the entire world did) but similar to most of Europe NY responded and flattened it.

Bizarre to me people can't seem to look at the facts and wrap their heads around that.

Why is the death rate in NY so much higher than the rest of the country besides NJ?

[Bugg]

2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

If the rest of the country reacted to this like New York did we'd be reopening right now and sports wouldn't be in jeopardy. We've completely flattened this thing. No doubt we bungled it early (the entire world did) but similar to most of Europe NY responded and flattened it.

Bizarre to me people can't seem to look at the facts and wrap their heads around that.

And you would have thousands more dead elderly nursing home residents throughout the country, as in NY.  

[Bugg]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Why is the death rate in NY so much higher than the rest of the country besides NJ?

Nursing homes. No other state mandated nursing homes had to take back recovering COVID patients. 

[HessStation]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

What's partisan about it? California has also done an awful job. We can be honest and just point out that these states that are exploding (including California and Florida) have done a dreadful job despite having the foresight of seeing how it played out in the Northeast.

Dude you have a bunch of NORTHEAST people claiming superiority in how they’ve handled a virus while having the highest death rates in the world. Literally nobody brings up CA except republicans who actually live in CA

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Why is the death rate in NY so much higher than the rest of the country besides NJ?

Because it hit us first before anyone was prepared for it. It's why we mirror places like Italy.

[Matt39]

Just now, Bugg said:

Nursing homes. No other state mandated nursing homes had to take back recovering COVID patients. 

Yes- NY, NJ and CT panicked at first. Not blaming anyone, but it was a bad decision. Not sure why this is being ignored for but "Florida has a lot of cases"

[nico002]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

But re-opened too early. Newsome and the So Cal local government deserves blame too.

Based on their curve and number of cases relative to the population... no they didn’t. 

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Because it hit us first before anyone was prepared for it. It's why we mirror places like Italy.

It hit Europe first. It's almost as if a very contagious virus is tough to contain and the timeline of things happening isnt all that important. The nursing home factor is what caused the spike in early mortalities. 

[southtown24th]

I still can't figure out what sports is on the precipice OF...you have to be on the precipice OF something...I can't sleep at night with this thread title.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, HessStation said:

Dude you have a bunch of NORTHEAST people claiming superiority in how they’ve handled a virus while having the highest death rates in the works. Literally nobody brings up CA except republicans who actually live in CA

Do you not get that stopping the spread and limiting cases is ultimately the goal here? That that is how we return to a normal society? Th actual issue here is that most of the country STILL ISN'T DOING WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. 

[neckdemon]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

On which measure has Jersey been better or safer? If your measure is positive tests at the current moment then sure. The horizontal axis/timeline is virtually meaningless. The mortality rates between the two states aren't close either.

Well positive tests at the current moment is what matters right now. Florida's mortality rates are starting to spike. No way of telling where they will end up. NJ had the unenviable position of being hit hard right away. Florida escaped that. Now there is more information on what treatments work better, there's remdesivir and there's also the chance that the mutation of the  virus has caused it to be less lethal than when NJ got hit hard. The truth is that with the right measures Florida would likely have less cases per day or at least right around the same where NJ is right now. Unfortunately more people ate needlessly getting ill and dying as a direct result of the failure of Desantis' response.

[T0mShane]

V. smart and much viable. Super serious sports league with valid competition. 

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

The truth is that with the right measures Florida would likely have less cases per day or at least right around the same where NJ is right now. 

Harping on the timeline when the positive curve will likely end up looking identical is not the correct way to look at it. States were going to get hit eventually. It's died off in NJ and NY thankfully. Belgium just saw a massive spike in cases- their fault or just their time?

[UntouchableCrew]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

It hit Europe first. It's almost as if a very contagious virus is tough to contain and the timeline of things happening isnt all that important. The nursing home factor is what caused the spike in early mortalities. 

I feel like there are two different things being discussed here.

Clearly NY/NJ made mistakes early on when this thing was blowing up. I'm not commending NY/NJ (Cuomo/Murphy) for being great in March. Nobody was, obviously lots of mistakes were made.

I'm talking about the ongoing effort to flatten this thing -- and the job the people are doing to make it happen. NY/NJ have been exemplary in that respect -- the cases, and deaths have been completely flattened.

Months and months in -- that STILL isn't happening in most of the country -- that's the issue and that's why we probably won't have sports this fall.

[HessStation]

6 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

Well positive tests at the current moment is what matters right now. Florida's mortality rates are starting to spike. No way of telling where they will end up. NJ had the unenviable position of being hit hard right away. Florida escaped that. Now there is more information on what treatments work better, there's remdesivir and there's also the chance that the mutation of the  virus has caused it to be less lethal than when NJ got hit hard. The truth is that with the right measures Florida would likely have less cases per day or at least right around the same where NJ is right now. Unfortunately more people ate needlessly getting ill and dying as a direct result of the failure of Desantis' response.

Sorta to untouchable’s inadvertent point, we are on different timelines of virus maturity in regions. Add To that the accelerated testing now vs then. 
 

I mentioned this before, yeah I wonder where, most importantly deaths, end up peaking in FL and TX...without ever having a full scale lockdown