Insightful Trade Breakdown (Bart Scott)

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Skeptable said:

"Also, his 62.7 passer rating allowed in man coverage is fifth among defensive backs who were targeted at least 20 times."

https://nypost.com/2020/07/26/bradley-mcdougald-excited-to-be-joining-the-jets/

And has twice as many turnovers in the last 2 years as Adams... There is not going to be a steep drop off as some may seem to think.

Hopefully there isn’t a drop off.  Combine that with the draft picks how great would that be?

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Skeptable said:

Just commenting on @Jet Nutthat Adams was the 4th best safety in coverage and I was saying that McDougald was the 5th best DB in man coverage. Meaning he was asked to cover a lot as a safety and Adams was not... Adams coverage was a liability even though his stats look good, GW understood his short comings as a player and tried not to put him in those situations. 

That’s pretty much not what it says, Adams was in pass coverage more than McDougland.  
 The fantasy is he wasn’t capable and blown into he was a liability.  How comp% against pass coverage numbers lie is interesting.  GW understood the need to pressure the QB at times and used Adams in blitz packages, not because he was a liability.  You’re working the facts backwards.

Hate the guy but turning not all pro into a liability on the field?  Dont

[JoJoTownsell1]

14 hours ago, vtbx said:

I'm glad Bart mentioned Marcus Maye as an overlooked talent especially in coverage.  I always thought Maye outplayed Adams in their rookie years.  Maye will have a great opportunity to make us say "Jamal Who?" 

Mac looking like a genius now for going safety-safety in the first 2 rounds of the 2017 draft.

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

The mental gymnastics around here trying to justify the trade and even more ridiculous is trying to explain away Jamals talent. 
if you want to say we’re rebuilding and paying a safety big money at this point, even an elite one, doesn’t make sense - so let’s get picks.  while I don’t agree I can certainly understand the sentiment.  
but please stop pretending he wasn’t any good in The first place.  
 

He was all over the field and was actually very good in coverage.  He’s an elite talent and we traded him. Let’s at least have the courage to admit that. 

No he is not en elite athlete.

He blitzed so often or was in the box they  let guys like hewitt actually have to cover.

No he was not very good in coverage.

He is a very good perhaps the best run stopping box safety, in no way shape or form does he change the game. 

His skill set is easily replaced if with the next guy you commit to letting that player be in the box and bltiz all day long.

 

[Skeptable]

55 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That’s pretty much not what it says, Adams was in pass coverage more than McDougland.  
 The fantasy is he wasn’t capable and blown into he was a liability.  How comp% against pass coverage numbers lie is interesting.  GW understood the need to pressure the QB at times and used Adams in blitz packages, not because he was a liability.  You’re working the facts backwards.

Hate the guy but turning not all pro into a liability on the field?  Dont

Nope... Adams wasn't in coverage that much... Check the stats... None of the stats I quoted refer to it.. it's just a fact... When he was in man  coverage he was normally matched with a TE... McDougald actually played a lot of man coverage and was the 5th best DB... Not safety... DB in man coverage... Jamal doesn't fit into that stat because he was not thrown at 20 times or more in man coverage. 

[Jetluv58]

On 7/28/2020 at 7:44 AM, Jet Nut said:

I know everyone hates Jamal Adams but since coming into the league was the 4th ranked S in coverage.

He allowed only 50.4% of passes to be completed.  I'm guessing one of the 3 above him isnt Maye.  The whole he sucks in coverage is wrong.  Do is the he was at the point of attack because he couldn't cover theory. 

I'm sure that makes him probably at the top of the SS list

 

Yeah, I get that some people were irritated by him personally, but this whole narrative about his on field performance lacking just doesn’t ring true. Especially when every other pundit, player, and coach in the nation extolls his greatness and elite player status. You can say the guy bugged you or that he was a distraction, but he’s an all-pro. A proven commodity. A great football player. I do think he had to go and Joe did a good job with the transaction, but there’s no need to slag Adam’s on field performance. 

[Skeptable]

29 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

Yeah, I get that some people were irritated by him personally, but this whole narrative about his on field performance lacking just doesn’t ring true. Especially when every other pundit, player, and coach in the nation extolls his greatness and elite player status. You can say the guy bugged you or that he was a distraction, but he’s an all-pro. A proven commodity. A great football player. I do think he had to go and Mac did a good job with the transaction, but there’s no need to slag Adam’s on field performance. 

All-pro Safety ... Yes... One of the best defensive players in the league even... and could play many different positions at an elite level. He just didn't cover man to man very well. And was beat for TDs on a few occasions.  So both can be true... He can be elite and only ok at man coverage at the same time.

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

The mental gymnastics around here trying to justify the trade and even more ridiculous is trying to explain away Jamals talent. 
if you want to say we’re rebuilding and paying a safety big money at this point, even an elite one, doesn’t make sense - so let’s get picks.  while I don’t agree I can certainly understand the sentiment.  
but please stop pretending he wasn’t any good in The first place.  
 

He was all over the field and was actually very good in coverage.  He’s an elite talent and we traded him. Let’s at least have the courage to admit that. 

No mental gymnastics at all dude....It was out-right the correct thing to do.  And to get what we got, was pure villainy.

 

We get it...you loved Adams.  And I liked him too.  But this team will be better off without him.  Cut and dry.

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No he is not en elite athlete.

He blitzed so often or was in the box they  let guys like hewitt actually have to cover.

No he was not very good in coverage.

He is a very good perhaps the best run stopping box safety, in no way shape or form does he change the game. 

His skill set is easily replaced if with the next guy you commit to letting that player be in the box and bltiz all day long.

 

That’s like a flip, twist, double back handspring...

The guy is a impressive, impact player...just because we’re rebuilding we can admit we traded away a legitimate impact player

[Aaron Hernandez]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I know everyone hates Jamal Adams but since coming into the league was the 4th ranked S in coverage.

He allowed only 50.4% of passes to be completed.  I'm guessing one of the 3 above him isnt Maye.  The whole he sucks in coverage is wrong.  Do is the he was at the point of attack because he couldn't cover theory. 

I'm sure that makes him probably at the top of the SS list

 

According to who? PFF?

 

I actually had to sit and watch him every week. Send these statistics to cheer up Seahawks fans after Kittle dry humps him up and down the field for the first time

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Nope... Adams wasn't in coverage that much... Check the stats... None of the stats I quoted refer to it.. it's just a fact... When he was in man  coverage he was normally matched with a TE... McDougald actually played a lot of man coverage and was the 5th best DB... Not safety... DB in man coverage... Jamal doesn't fit into that stat because he was not thrown at 20 times or more in man coverage. 

Well the numbers say he was more than most fans realize.  

Adams was in coverage more than 75 times in 3 seasons, at least given the rating was for 75 or more passes defensed.  Thats around 20 per season.  Again it may not have seen that way to you, but he was.  

McDougland int Adams, let get serious now.

 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

Yeah, I get that some people were irritated by him personally, but this whole narrative about his on field performance lacking just doesn’t ring true. Especially when every other pundit, player, and coach in the nation extolls his greatness and elite player status. You can say the guy bugged you or that he was a distraction, but he’s an all-pro. A proven commodity. A great football player. I do think he had to go and Mac did a good job with the transaction, but there’s no need to slag Adam’s on field performance. 

Exactly.  And my only point.

He was a shlthead here, a real pain in the ass who should have shut his twitter account down 3 years ago and just played.  So I get the annoyance with his act.

But on the field he was what he was here and thats a damn good player.  I mean by this time next week McDougland won't just be as good, he'll be the better player.  

[Jetsfan80]

21 hours ago, vtbx said:

I'm glad Bart mentioned Marcus Maye as an overlooked talent especially in coverage.  I always thought Maye outplayed Adams in their rookie years.  Maye will have a great opportunity to make us say "Jamal Who?" 

At FS, he's not an asset in coverage.

But with someone else (like Davis or even McDougald) playing center field, he instantly becomes a very good SS.  

Solid year coming for Maye.

[Jetsfan80]

18 hours ago, David Harris said:

yeah Bart is really high on Maye, never thought of him as an attacker of the LOS. 

Because he hasn't been asked to really do it yet.  He's been playing out of position basically his whole career to date.

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, Skeptable said:

Nope... Adams wasn't in coverage that much... Check the stats... None of the stats I quoted refer to it.. it's just a fact... When he was in man  coverage he was normally matched with a TE... McDougald actually played a lot of man coverage and was the 5th best DB... Not safety... DB in man coverage... Jamal doesn't fit into that stat because he was not thrown at 20 times or more in man coverage. 

 

Yep.  He was sent on a blitz 90 times last year, more than all but 9 other players in the league.  He wasn't trusted to be a big coverage guy.  He was a freelancing Linebacker, of sorts.

And if he was in coverage as much as his supporters say he was....why only 1 INT and 7 Pass Deflections?  That's piss poor numbers out of a supposedly elite Safety.

Jamal's remaining supporters here want to eat their cake and have it too.  They want to say he's an elite pass rusher AND elite in coverage.  The numbers simply don't support this claim.  

[CSNY]

The guy we got from the Ravens ( forget his name) will do what Adams did for far less money and headaches 

[Bungaman]

1 minute ago, CSNY said:

The guy we got from the Ravens ( forget his name) will do what Adams did for far less money and headaches 

Onwuasor. I always have to look it up ...  

[CSNY]

6 minutes ago, Bungaman said:

Onwuasor. I always have to look it up ...  

Thank you ?

[Skeptable]

17 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Well the numbers say he was more than most fans realize.  

Adams was in coverage more than 75 times in 3 seasons, at least given the rating was for 75 or more passes defensed.  Thats around 20 per season.  Again it may not have seen that way to you, but he was.  

McDougland int Adams, let get serious now.

 

A WHOLE 75 times!!! in 3 years!!! WOW .... come on... thats not even the stat I was quoting... Adams was not thrown to over 20 times hence why he didn't qualify for the DB stat... Here is a good breakdown..

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2020/7/28/21338733/bradley-mcdougald-the-jamal-adams-saga

"Bradley McDougald has sneakily been one of the best man-coverage safeties in the entire league over the last two seasons. Since 2018, McDougald’s 85.4 man-coverage grade ranks fourth among the 104 safeties who have played at least 100 snaps of man coverage over that span, while his 62.7 passer rating allowed in man coverage ranks fifth among those who were targeted at least 20 times."

Jamal never played man coverage as much as this guy... and McDougald is one of the best in the league at doing it.... So come on now... Again.... Adams is a top Defensive player in league and McDougald is not... but where Adams struggled he does not... Bart Scott (who understands more about NFL Defenses the either of us) talked yesterday about how Jamal was set to blitz or stack the run... he wasn't used in coverage because GW didn't want to expose him and use his strength rather than put him on an island... He also talked about how much Adams is going to struggle in Seattle because he is going to get exposed by Kittle in both the run game and passing game.

 

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

A WHOLE 75 times!!! in 3 years!!! WOW .... come on... thats not even the stat I was quoting... Adams was not thrown to over 20 times hence why he didn't qualify for the DB stat... Here is a good breakdown..

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2020/7/28/21338733/bradley-mcdougald-the-jamal-adams-saga

"Bradley McDougald has sneakily been one of the best man-coverage safeties in the entire league over the last two seasons. Since 2018, McDougald’s 85.4 man-coverage grade ranks fourth among the 104 safeties who have played at least 100 snaps of man coverage over that span, while his 62.7 passer rating allowed in man coverage ranks fifth among those who were targeted at least 20 times."

Jamal never played man coverage as much as this guy... and McDougald is one of the best in the league at doing it.... So come on now... Again.... Adams is a top Defensive player in league and McDougald is not... but where Adams struggled he does not... Bart Scott (who understands more about NFL Defenses the either of us) talked yesterday about how Jamal was set to blitz or stack the run... he wasn't used in coverage because GW didn't want to expose him and use his strength rather than put him on an island... He also talked about how much Adams is going to struggle in Seattle because he is going to get exposed by Kittle in both the run game and passing game.

 

 

Everything you say is true except the bold.

[slats]

Adams is overrated by the people who buy into his self-promotion campaign, and underrated by the people who hated that campaign. The only thing he's great at is boasting. On the field, he's simply very good. If he just shut up and played and realized his actual value, he'd still be here. He's not worth top defender money. He's not worth two first rounders, either, and I'm extremely impressed with Joe D scoring that haul for him. 

[k-met57]

i don't get the yannick ngakoue thing...so we got rid of one guy criticizing the owner to another one? i don't see it. good breakdown otherwise.

[32EBoozer]

16 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

At FS, he's not an asset in coverage.

But with someone else (like Davis or even McDougald) playing center field, he instantly becomes a very good SS.  

Solid year coming for Maye.

Question is will the Jets look to extend Maye mid-season or look to extend MacDougald if he looks like a quality starter at Safety? Macdougaled would probably sign a shorter contract with less guaranteed than Maye

[Dcat]

20 hours ago, Aaron Hernandez said:

According to who? PFF?

 

I actually had to sit and watch him every week. Send these statistics to cheer up Seahawks fans after Kittle dry humps him up and down the field for the first time

Kittle is going to repeatedly embarrass Jamalignant.

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Skeptable said:

A WHOLE 75 times!!! in 3 years!!! WOW .... come on... thats not even the stat I was quoting... Adams was not thrown to over 20 times hence why he didn't qualify for the DB stat... Here is a good breakdown..

https://www.ganggreennation.com/2020/7/28/21338733/bradley-mcdougald-the-jamal-adams-saga

"Bradley McDougald has sneakily been one of the best man-coverage safeties in the entire league over the last two seasons. Since 2018, McDougald’s 85.4 man-coverage grade ranks fourth among the 104 safeties who have played at least 100 snaps of man coverage over that span, while his 62.7 passer rating allowed in man coverage ranks fifth among those who were targeted at least 20 times."

Jamal never played man coverage as much as this guy... and McDougald is one of the best in the league at doing it.... So come on now... Again.... Adams is a top Defensive player in league and McDougald is not... but where Adams struggled he does not... Bart Scott (who understands more about NFL Defenses the either of us) talked yesterday about how Jamal was set to blitz or stack the run... he wasn't used in coverage because GW didn't want to expose him and use his strength rather than put him on an island... He also talked about how much Adams is going to struggle in Seattle because he is going to get exposed by Kittle in both the run game and passing game.

 

Go argue somewhere, you said 20 passes defensed by McDougland, Who has been a journeyman for a reason, isnt a pro brow player or an all pro.

Just to clarify, your comment was McDouland was 5th ranked for bot S's and CBs, now where at S and at 5 hes behind Adams.

You want to argue hes as good and ignoring hes mostly in the box, you know the Adams argument, go ahead.

Just not whit me

[Biggs]

Adams came with a 5 year warranty.  We decided to get his absolute value on the field and in trade before his warranty expired.  He was due for a major brain overhaul in training camp.  Brain overhauls are extremely expensive, time consuming and if you don't get it right the player never runs the same way it used to.   This is why Sar l leases his BMW's instead of owning them outright.  There's a hassle factor in ownership and sometimes you want to avoid that and just get a new one before the maintenance program kicks in. 

We got a loner.  A completely reconditioned starting caliber safety to plug right in.  We drafted a dynamic potential talent at Safety in the 3rd round with elite speed and a brand new warranty.  

This year the Jets are no worse off and we may actually be better without Adams.  We replaced a nice 3 year old BMW with a major computer problem with a rebuilt Toyota and a brand new 911.  The Toyota is very reliable and it will get you to the same place as the BMW until Williams figures out how to drive a Porsche.  

When are GM uses the 2 extra 1's and the three were going to have a garage full of talent that other teams will be drooling over.  Douglas is working his plan.  Unlike past Jets GM's, he has one.  

 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Question is will the Jets look to extend Maye mid-season or look to extend MacDougald if he looks like a quality starter at Safety? Macdougaled would probably sign a shorter contract with less guaranteed than Maye

Tough to say who we'll look to sign.  McDougald is about 3 years older but is almost certainly a better player than Maye.  Douglas likes versatility, and McDougald has the ability to play both Safety spots.  Maye is a pure SS.  And of course, Douglas didn't draft Maye.  

It just depends on what Douglas wants.  Does he want a locked in starter at SS for the next 3-4 years?  If so, he'll sign Maye.  Is he content with a solid starter at either Safety spot for the next 2 years?  If so, he'll bring back McDougald.

It's also possible he brings NEITHER back, in an effort to let as many 2020 UFA's walk after the season as possible and get comp picks.

[rangerous]

it's plenty obvious adams is the guy who instigated the trade.  he could've kept his trap shut and the jets would've been more than happy to re-sign him for near or top safety money.  but instead he put the kibosh on the negotiations before they even started.  now we'll see how far he gets with seattle.

[Jetster]

19 hours ago, CSNY said:

The guy we got from the Ravens ( forget his name) will do what Adams did for far less money and headaches 

Agreed! I think every move JD made with signing  Onwuasor and drafting Davis were his preparing for trading Adams when the right package came along. And what a package that was, crazy draft package for a safety + a starting replacement safety? Nuts! 

[Skeptable]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Go argue somewhere, you said 20 passes defensed by McDougland, Who has been a journeyman for a reason, isnt a pro brow player or an all pro.

Just to clarify, your comment was McDouland was 5th ranked for bot S's and CBs, now where at S and at 5 hes behind Adams.

You want to argue hes as good and ignoring hes mostly in the box, you know the Adams argument, go ahead.

Just not whit me

It's fine... You obviously are not actually reading what I write and just half-assed skimming... No use talking about it... You are having trouble understanding what was written. 

Adams = all pro safety... Top tier in almost every stat outside of take aways and Man coverage

McDougald = average safety with top tier man coverage skills...

McDougald = top 5 man coverage DB over the last 2 years. .. Regularly played it in the defensive scheme for the last 2 years. 

Adams = schemed to not have to do man coverage because he gives up ridiculously easy TDs when he does. Hence why he only. Played it on 75 snaps in 3 years!!!!!!!!. 48 games played or so... Average 2 times a game he is asked to even play man coverage... 2 snaps... A game. Out of 60+ plays every game.... 

Just saying... 

I trust GW to use McDougald in strength and not weakness... 

[The Gun Of Bavaria]

On 7/27/2020 at 6:59 PM, Marshmello said:

Thanks, good stuff from Bart as usual on the Jets.  My go to for Jets and Knicks. Alan Hahn is my favorite Knicks insider. I can't even listen to Joe and Evan.  It's sad what has become of WFAN. 

 

I'm the most pessimistic Jets fan out there - but I really like Joe Douglas and am optimistic about him. 

 

[Losmeister]

7 hours ago, Jetster said:

And what a package that was, crazy draft package for a safety + a starting replacement safety? Nuts! 

this. unless he's ed reed and aready has 20+ INTs and 40+ PDs  in 3 yrs

[Losmeister]

12 hours ago, Dcat said:

Kittle is going to repeatedly embarrass Jamalignant.

JAPanCake

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, Skeptable said:

McDougald = top 5 man coverage DB over the last 2 years. .. Regularly played it in the defensive scheme for the last 2 years. 

Adams = schemed to not have to do man coverage because he gives up ridiculously easy TDs when he does. Hence why he only. Played it on 75 snaps in 3 years!!!!!!!!.

When you start by saying McDougland was top 5 for DBs and then ridicule Adams for being 4th using the same criteria and make some pointless comment about INTS when we were talking passes defensed, yes I'm easily confused.  

BTW, no one says Adams only payed in 75 snaps.  You actually watch Jets games and believe that?  It was a MINIMUM of 75 passes defensed.  Not 75 snaps.  Not 75 in coverage.  PASSED DEFENSED.  As in thrown at.  

No wonder youre skeptable, I would be too

[Skeptable]

16 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

When you start by saying McDougland was top 5 for DBs and then ridicule Adams for being 4th using the same criteria and make some pointless comment about INTS when we were talking passes defensed, yes I'm easily confused.  

BTW, no one says Adams only payed in 75 snaps.  You actually watch Jets games and believe that?  It was a MINIMUM of 75 passes defensed.  Not 75 snaps.  Not 75 in coverage.  PASSED DEFENSED.  As in thrown at.  

No wonder youre skeptable, I would be too

Do you read? Where are you coming up with this sh*t... I broke it down for you and you still get it wrong... Come on man