The baby fat is gone

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Eh maybe, but that 10 yard split is a great indicator of explosion... and he’s got 20 pounds on those guys. He’s not coming off the edge so he needs to be more slippery than anything, which by all indications and his tape he is very much so. Just needs to stay healthy and put it together, guy was a unanimous elite prospect for a reason. 

Amazing how those guys are always falling into our laps and yet we still suck.

Hope you're right!  No excuses for Quinnen in year 2.  Produce.

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Amazing how those guys are always falling into our laps and yet we still suck.

Hope you're right!  No excuses for Quinnen in year 2.  Produce.

He didn't really 'fall into our lap'.  He was the third pick.  I'm not even sure Macc would have taken Nick Bosa over him.  Josh Allen, OTOH, definitely 'fell' into JAX's lap thanks to Gruden's and Mayock's unrivaled wisdom

 

 

[nico002]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Amazing how those guys are always falling into our laps and yet we still suck.

Hope you're right!  No excuses for Quinnen in year 2.  Produce.

Bro he was the second not QB taken in the draft. 

[Paradis]

[Paradis]

4 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Bro he was the second not QB taken in the draft. 

meaning what. 

no one would challenge your devotion to the Jets. You bleed green and white, i'm sure of it.  But when it comes to talent evaluation, and management, you;ve largely been a space cadet. 

[kdels62]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

This has been discussed before.  The problem is he didn't participate in the 2 most important tests:  3-cone and Short Shuttle.  Likely for good reason.

His speed times really don't mean a lot to me.  He's a DT.  He doesn't get straight lines to the QB very often.  

Compare this to Ed Oliver.  It's no question who the more athletic talent was, and who the better pick would have been.  Oliver is a freak on the level of Aaron Donald.  And like Donald, he only "fell" as far as he did because he's considered "undersized":

 

I loved Ed Oliver and think he could be something special but saying Q doesn’t have a very good athletic profile is cynical. He might not be Aaron Donald but if he can be Mo Wilk or Gerald McCoy then he’ll be a valuable piece of this team for a long time.

[Paradis]

40 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Eh maybe, but that 10 yard split is a great indicator of explosion... and he’s got 20 pounds on those guys. He’s not coming off the edge so he needs to be more slippery than anything, which by all indications and his tape he is very much so. Just needs to stay healthy and put it together, guy was a unanimous elite prospect for a reason. 

Elite, with who? Draft media and draft twitter? 

There were people here, more than just a couple "who've seen this dance before"... a 1 year wonder from Alabama who was surrounded by talent and played against teams down 24+points half time. YOU could put on good tape in that situation. 

He was a NO SHOW in the National title game vs Clemson, @nico002, the only time Bama was stress-tested. Say it with me @nico002 - NO SHOW on the biggest game of the year and the only one that mattered on their cupcake schedule. Say it out loud. 

I wouldn't have touched him in the 1st round.

[Greensleeves]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I wrote him off as a pass-rusher before he was selected.  He's not a good enough natural athlete to ever be an elite pass rushing DT in the NFL.  His rookie year performance only reaffirmed that viewpoint.

He'll be a very good run stuffer who falls into some sacks/pressures, regardless of how much fat he sheds.  He's just not an explosive guy.  

I'd love to be wrong.  

Totally disagree. This will be an explosive player. He showed glimpses and then was compromised with an ankle injury which limited his burst. After being in the weight room for a year with the team, he could be our best player on D this year.

[jetstream23]

On 7/28/2020 at 10:57 AM, AFJF said:

Monster year for Q on the way.

 

 

He looks and walks a bit like a young Mike Tyson here.

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I loved Ed Oliver and think he could be something special but saying Q doesn’t have a very good athletic profile is cynical. He might not be Aaron Donald but if he can be Mo Wilk or Gerald McCoy then he’ll be a valuable piece of this team for a long time.

If all Quinnen Williams becomes is the next Gerald McCoy, it was a bad pick.  Period.  Especially if Ed Oliver becomes an elite pass-rushing DT.

And lol at being cool with him becoming the next Muhammad Wilkerson.  

[GaryM]

3 hours ago, nycdan said:

I'm hoping you're wrong too.  Every single thing written about QW before the draft praised his speed and athleticism and yes, explosiveness. 

Here's a quote from NinersNation:

And one from TheDraftNetwork:

 

8 sacks in his first year as a starter at DT for Alabama suggests he is a pretty good pass rusher.  

I can't speak to what happened last year, but the potential to be a dominant, disruptive pass-rusher is there.  It just remains to be seen if QW can activate it and become a star.

The kid had a high ankle injury in the first game last year that really impacted him all year. Lets hope  he is 100% this year and l believe  that he will surprise a lot of people.

[kdels62]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If all Quinnen Williams becomes is the next Gerald McCoy, it was a bad pick.  Period.  Especially if Ed Oliver becomes an elite pass-rushing DT.

And lol at being cool with him becoming the next Muhammad Wilkerson.  

Prime Mo Wilkerson was a top DT. If Q is that plus work ethic so he extends his prime that’s really good. 10 sacks, 20 QB hits, 13 TFLS, that’s terrific. 

No one is arguing that Q was a good draft pick. I definitely don’t think he was a good pick, but bitching about that is over. His skill set and physical traits put him as a potential interior disruptor. 

[jetstream23]

25 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I loved Ed Oliver and think he could be something special but saying Q doesn’t have a very good athletic profile is cynical. He might not be Aaron Donald but if he can be Mo Wilk or Gerald McCoy then he’ll be a valuable piece of this team for a long time.

Agree with this 100%.  The problem though is that you're expected to be more than just a valuable piece when you're taken #3 overall.

That's a draft slot reserved for expected Pro Bowlers and players who are expected to lead the other "pieces" of your defense.  If he's an excellent starter but not a Pro Bowler I'd live with that even if I'd be a little disappointed.  But that's essentially what we had with Leo Williams.  The problem becomes that good (but not great) guys like Leo want to be paid for their Draft position and not what they've proven on the field. Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen with QW.

[kdels62]

Just now, jetstream23 said:

Agree with this 100%.  The problem though is that you're expected to be more than just a valuable piece when you're taken #3 overall.

That's a draft slot reserved for expected Pro Bowlers and players who are expected to lead the other "pieces" of your defense.  If he's an excellent starter but not a Pro Bowler I'd live with that even if I'd be a little disappointed.  But that's essentially what we had with Leo Williams.  The problem becomes that good (but not great) guys like Leo want to be paid for their Draft position and not what they've proven on the field. Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen with QW.

I agree. I hated the draft pick. That’s in the past now, doesn’t mean anything and came from a prior regime. He has a lot of physical potential (though not enough to warrant his draft slot). He can still be an excellent player, just one that never should have been drafted 3rd overall.

[nico002]

28 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Elite, with who? Draft media and draft twitter? 

There were people here, more than just a couple "who've seen this dance before"... a 1 year wonder from Alabama who was surrounded by talent and played against teams down 24+points half time. YOU could put on good tape in that situation. 

He was a NO SHOW in the National title game vs Clemson, @nico002, the only time Bama was stress-tested. Say it with me @nico002 - NO SHOW on the biggest game of the year and the only one that mattered on their cupcake schedule. Say it out loud. 

I wouldn't have touched him in the 1st round.

Ok Paradis sure,  you know more than virtually every other scout out there. The book is still open on Q, Oliver and Allen certainly didn't prove themselves to be worthy of the 3rd overall pick either last year. 

[rangerous]

57 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

1) Nose Tackles don't matter like they used to.  Even if they did, you don't use a top 10 pick on a run-stuffing DT/NT, even if  you were to guarantee he becomes the greatest NT/run-stuffing DT of all-time.  

2) You are correct that a pass-rusher was what we should have taken.  That includes pass-rushing DTs if you can find one.  

3) Were there pass rushers available after Quinnen?  Yes.  Josh Allen and Ed Oliver were/are bonafide pass rushers.  Allen fits the 3-4 look nicely.  Oliver is perfect as a 4-3 DT if you prefer the Jets to move towards that.  Take your pick.  

fwiw bleacher report had him pretty highly rated.  i can see where allen could've easily been justified with the 3rd pick though.  oliver not so much.  still qwill is very young and should have a pretty good upside.  we'll see if he can be more than a run stuffer.  he showed soe ability to disrupt the backfield last season.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, rangerous said:

fwiw bleacher report had him pretty highly rated.  i can see where allen could've easily been justified with the 3rd pick though.  oliver not so much.  still qwill is very young and should have a pretty good upside.  we'll see if he can be more than a run stuffer.  he showed soe ability to disrupt the backfield last season.

Bleacher Report isn't a legitimate source.  That's just fans who are dumber than the average JN poster writing articles.  

[Losmeister]

3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

By all appearances QW has used his offseason well and I do have high hopes for him.

[nycdan]

16 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Ok Paradis sure,  you know more than virtually every other scout out there. The book is still open on Q, Oliver and Allen certainly didn't prove themselves to be worthy of the 3rd overall pick either last year. 

Josh Allen pretty much did prove himself worthy.  I'd agree book is still out on Oliver who was good, but didn't remind anyone of Aaron Donald just yet.

[Jet Nut]

 

Are we still on Ed Oliver and his Donaldson like numbers that equated to numbers worse than Adams and Jenkins.

 

[Losmeister]

38 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

guys like Leo want to be paid for their Draft position and not what they've proven on the field

this sounds an awful lot like...     

[Jetsfan80]

58 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Ok Paradis sure,  you know more than virtually every other scout out there. The book is still open on Q, Oliver and Allen certainly didn't prove themselves to be worthy of the 3rd overall pick either last year. 

Scouts are smart, for sure.  Not every scout gets listened to by his GM, unfortunately.  But meanwhile, not every scout is worth his salt, either.

All I know is this:  If Paradis were making the picks over the years, this team would be loaded.  Arm chair GM/scout?  Absolutely.  Is he also very good at it?  Yes.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

Ok Paradis sure,  you know more than virtually every other scout out there. The book is still open on Q, Oliver and Allen certainly didn't prove themselves to be worthy of the 3rd overall pick either last year. 

I try my best with you - but you have to be (at times) one of the most ignorantly stubborn posters on this forum.

"His 10.5 sacks recordeed in 2019 led all NFL rookies and were the most by a rookie in franchise history"

-Josh Allen. Pass Rusher... good thing the Jets didn't need one, and haven't spend a dime on DT recently.

 

[Paradis]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Scouts are smart, for sure.  Not every scout gets listened to by his GM, unfortunately.  But meanwhile, not every scout is worth his salt, either.

All I know is this:  If Paradis were making the picks over the years, this team would be loaded.  Arm chair GM/scout?  Absolutely.  Is he also very good at it?  Yes.

I've never pretended to be more than just an a$$hole in canada... its' only in the last 8-9 years that i've been like - "wait a minute.... I can do this better than our GM"... Not exactly a high bar when you take Hackenberg in the 2nd. 

Honestly i've beaten this horse into dust -- but anyone who thinks that you need XX of field scout work to have any idea what you're talking about, needs to read BLINK by Gladwell. I'm not saying anyone can do it - but there's reasons why sometimes people are right more often than not, and there's reasons why people who in positions (like GM) seem to make moronic decisions on matters they're supposed to be competent in. 

It's how guys like Tavon Austin go in round 1. 

[nico002]

9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I try my best with you - but you have to be (at times) of the most bull headed, ignorantly stubborn posters on this forum.

"His 10.5 sacks recordeed in 2019 led all NFL rookies and were the most by a rookie in franchise history"

-Josh Allen. Pass Rusher... good thing the Jets didn't need one, and haven't spend a dime on DT recently.

 

I watched four Jaguars games last year and he was invisible in all of them. Wonderful that he managed to accumulate double digit sacks, doesn't make him worthy of the 3rd overall pick. Not saying he won't become an elite player, but... Nick Bosa and Murray were they only players in the top 10 that really proved to be worth it (so far) imo. 

[Bugg]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

Elite, with who? Draft media and draft twitter? 

There were people here, more than just a couple "who've seen this dance before"... a 1 year wonder from Alabama who was surrounded by talent and played against teams down 24+points half time. YOU could put on good tape in that situation. 

He was a NO SHOW in the National title game vs Clemson, @nico002, the only time Bama was stress-tested. Say it with me @nico002 - NO SHOW on the biggest game of the year and the only one that mattered on their cupcake schedule. Say it out loud. 

I wouldn't have touched him in the 1st round.

Did not bench press at the combine. How do you pick a guy with that pedigree? 

[Barry McCockinner]

 

[14 in Green]

On 7/28/2020 at 5:23 PM, nico002 said:

He will be our defensive MVP this year 

I’m going to agree with this.

I think this kid persevered through an injury and a learning curve during his rookie year.

Theres just something about this kid I like. He’s an easy guy to root for.

Hopefully the gun issue hanging over his head (two felony charges are no joke) are resolved quickly. That has to be weighing on his mind.

Even with that going on though, I can see him becoming a feared weapon on this defense, which is something we desperately need.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

21 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

Eh still looks a little flabby. 

[New York Mick]

On 7/29/2020 at 10:24 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

I wrote him off as a pass-rusher before he was selected.  He's not a good enough natural athlete to ever be an elite pass rushing DT in the NFL.  His rookie year performance only reaffirmed that viewpoint.

He'll be a very good run stuffer who falls into some sacks/pressures, regardless of how much fat he sheds.  He's just not an explosive guy.  

I'd love to be wrong.  

You normally are so

[FidelioJet]

He didn’t even flash as a rookie. Don’t expect much from him. 
 

 

[14 in Green]

On 7/29/2020 at 2:19 PM, Paradis said:

Elite, with who? Draft media and draft twitter? 

There were people here, more than just a couple "who've seen this dance before"... a 1 year wonder from Alabama who was surrounded by talent and played against teams down 24+points half time. YOU could put on good tape in that situation. 

He was a NO SHOW in the National title game vs Clemson, @nico002, the only time Bama was stress-tested. Say it with me @nico002 - NO SHOW on the biggest game of the year and the only one that mattered on their cupcake schedule. Say it out loud. 

I wouldn't have touched him in the 1st round.

You know a lot more about these college kids than I do, so I’m not here to argue, just to point out that there are no “cupcake schedules” in the SEC. I’m sorry, but that’s a silly thing to say.

Finally, we were one 4th and goal conversion away from getting Bosa, but Jets ?...once that happened, my choices were Allen, Oliver and QW in that order.

Because things with the Jets never work out the way I want (see Mayfield), we took my 3rd option. Did he light it up? No, he didn’t, yet for some reason I can’t shake this feeling that this kid is going to work out very well for us.

Maybe it’s just because he’s such a likeable personality, or maybe I just think we’re due to get one right, but I’m buying the upside of Quinnen Williams....

[Jet Nut]

On 7/29/2020 at 4:10 PM, nico002 said:

I watched four Jaguars games last year and he was invisible in all of them. Wonderful that he managed to accumulate double digit sacks, doesn't make him worthy of the 3rd overall pick. Not saying he won't become an elite player, but... Nick Bosa and Murray were they only players in the top 10 that really proved to be worth it (so far) imo. 

As opposed to?

He had 10.5 sacks.  

He wasn't invisible 

[14 in Green]

9 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

You normally are so

He’s persistent though. A real grinder.

[thshadow]

On 7/29/2020 at 11:39 AM, kdels62 said:

I agree. I hated the draft pick. That’s in the past now, doesn’t mean anything and came from a prior regime. He has a lot of physical potential (though not enough to warrant his draft slot). He can still be an excellent player, just one that never should have been drafted 3rd overall.

I think this is very well stated.  We can have discussions about whether he justified his draft slot (no he didn't), whether Mac should have drafted him there (no), and whether Mac should be fired (yes - and he has been).

At this point, I'm just hoping he's a good player.  His draft position is irrelevant.