Trevor Lawrence vs Sam Darnold - who would you rather have?

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

The idea of fields being a better prospect is laughable

The idea of Sam Darnold being "proven" is laughable.

[jetswin]

2 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Nobody is saying run him out of town but the consensus is he needs to step it up now with a better roster. 

In the meantime if you can draft TL you do it.

to draft Lawrence you need the number one pick, that means going winless this season or trading away the team's future, before giving Darnold anything. Neither is likely to happen

[nico002]

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The idea of Sam Darnold being "proven" is laughable.

He proved to have rare natural ability to throw in the move, off platform, with incredible accuracy and touch 

He proved that he has the talent to put together multiple “elite level” performances 

He proved that he is mentally tough enough to bounce back from situations that would have crushed lesser QBs

He proved to be a great worker, teammate, and leader perfect for the NY media 

He proved to be worth at least 7 wins 

He proved he can turn the worst offense in NFL history into a respectable unit 

Not sure what your standard is for a 23 year old, Patrick Mahomes? You think he’s the MVP on this team? 

[predator_05]

6 minutes ago, jetswin said:

to draft Lawrence you need the number one pick, that means going winless this season or trading away the team's future, before giving Darnold anything. Neither is likely to happen

 

How about Fields or Lance?

[nico002]

1 minute ago, predator_05 said:

 

How about Fields or Lance?

Hahahahhahaha

 

[Kleckineau]

4 minutes ago, jetswin said:

to draft Lawrence you need the number one pick, that means going winless this season or trading away the team's future, before giving Darnold anything. Neither is likely to happen

This is all so theoretical plus the fact there may not even be a season but yeah sure lets say Jets go 4-12, Sam continues to be uninspiring and they wind up with a top 4 pick.  Are you saying they shouldnt by any means try to package draft picks to snag TL?

[Kleckineau]

3 minutes ago, nico002 said:

He proved to have rare natural ability to throw in the move, off platform, with incredible accuracy and touch 

He proved that he has the talent to put together multiple “elite level” performances 

He proved that he is mentally tough enough to bounce back from situations that would have crushed lesser QBs

He proved to be a great worker, teammate, and leader perfect for the NY media 

He proved to be worth at least 7 wins 

He proved he can turn the worst offense in NFL history into a respectable unit 

Not sure what your standard is for a 23 year old, Patrick Mahomes? You think he’s the MVP on this team? 

SHOW ME THE WINS

[jetswin]

3 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

This is all so theoretical plus the fact there may not even be a season but yeah sure lets say Jets go 4-12, Sam continues to be uninspiring and they wind up with a top 4 pick.  Are you saying they shouldnt by any means try to package draft picks to snag TL?

well if there is a season, I would say it is impossible for the Jets to win only 4 games, while remaining healthy, so if that does happen I fully expect everything to be blown up yet again

[jetswin]

6 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

How about Fields or Lance?

too many needs to package picks to move up imho

[y2k8]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

This is why I started that thread about having 4 picks in the 1st round, Lawrence and Fields are both arguably better prospects than Darnold.  I like me some Sammy boy and I hope he puts any thought of replacing him to rest this season but you'd be foolish to think this isnt a possibility. 

Lawrence and Fields are prospects.  Sam is a young QB in the NFL.

It's amazing how fast the shine dulls when the prospect actually has to put the big boy pants on.

[heymangold]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

That’s not the question and not a fair take. Any one would draft Lawrence if Darnold chatasrphically flames out. It means he played poorly enough to have the worst record in the NFl. BUT... there is no indication that Darnold will flop. He managed to improve while battling mono and having the worst OL in a decade. The question is essentially, would you trade Darnold today for the #1 pick next year.

If we’re in position to draft Lawrence or fields, then Sam didn’t have a good year.  Your argument is that darnold, even missing games and a bad OL, got the team to 7-9.  If he plays poorly, he shouldn’t be given the extension and this team should start over.  I get its only year 3 but this isn’t pee wee.  The cardinals got rid of Rosen after the first year.

[Warfish]

15 minutes ago, nico002 said:

He proved to have rare natural ability to throw in the move, off platform, with incredible accuracy and touch 

He proved that he has the talent to put together multiple “elite level” performances 

He proved that he is mentally tough enough to bounce back from situations that would have crushed lesser QBs

He proved to be a great worker, teammate, and leader perfect for the NY media 

He proved to be worth at least 7 wins 

He proved he can turn the worst offense in NFL history into a respectable unit 

Not sure what your standard is for a 23 year old, Patrick Mahomes? You think he’s the MVP on this team? 

Complete hyperbolic fan fluff.   Surprised you didn't throw in that he "gives 110%" too. ?

Here in the real world, where objective people live, Sam Darnold is very much NOT a "proven" anything as yet.  He remains a study in potential.

You can verbally tongue bathe him with all the florid hyperbole you want nico, he's still obviously on the hotseat to actually prove he is a franchise QB, and back it up with production, not fan praise, in 2020 and 2021.

16 starts, no missed time.  9+ wins.  65%+ Completion rate.  4,000+ passing yards.  2:1 TD:INT ratio or better.

That is that around the starting point for what "proven" looks like from a legit franchise QB in the NFL in 2020.  That is my standard.

All this being said, I have no reason today to want Lawrence over Darnold.  We'll see after the 2020 season if that is still the case.  Another year with missed time and substandard performance may change my view.

 

[Untouchable]

Darnold

 

I think Lawrence is a great prospect and certainly #1 pick worthy, but we’ve already seen plenty of flashes out of Darnold as a pro surrounded by a bottom of the barrel supporting cast and an OL that leaks like a sieve.

He’s shown that he’s mentally tough enough to bounce back from a horrendous performance that would completely break many young QB’s. From literally the moment he first stepped on an NFL field he’s shown that he can make a mistake early in a game and still has the balls to wing it and take chances instead of retreating into an ultra-conservative shell.

With an improved OL and what is looking like a stud lead executive at the helm, I’m not sure why more aren’t excited about Darnold and the general direction of the team to be honest.

[nico002]

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Complete hyperbolic fan fluff.   Surprised you didn't throw in that he "gives 110%" too. ?

Here in the real world, where objective people live, Sam Darnold is very much NOT a "proven" anything as yet.  He remains a study in potential.

You can verbally tongue bathe him with all the florid hyperbole you want nico, he's still obviously on the hotseat to actually prove he is a franchise QB, and back it up with production, not fan praise, in 2020 and 2021.

16 starts, no missed time.  9+ wins.  65%+ Completion rate.  4,000+ passing yards.  2:1 TD:INT ratio or better.

That is that around the starting point for what "proven" looks like from a legit franchise QB in the NFL in 2020.  That is my standard.

All this being said, I have no reason today to want Lawrence over Darnold.  We'll see after the 2020 season if that is still the case.  Another year with missed time and substandard performance may change my view.

 

It’s not hyperbole you troll. It’s called context. It’s how you actually evaluate a player that has been put in an absurdly disadvantaged position. Mono, OL, injuries, are we supposed to ignore that? Do you not believe that your situation has a massive impact on the stat line? Regardless, your statistical threshold will be met if Darnold can stay on the field. He already is at that level if you simply discount the NE game (the largest statistical outlier in NFL history that will never be duplicated)

[heymangold]

3 minutes ago, nico002 said:

It’s not hyperbole you troll. It’s called context. It’s how you actually evaluate a player that has been put in an absurdly disadvantaged position. Mono, OL, injuries, are we supposed to ignore that? Do you not believe that your situation has a massive impact on the stat line? Regardless, your statistical threshold will be met if Darnold can stay on the field. He already is at that level if you simply discount the NE game (the largest statistical outlier in NFL history that will never be duplicated)

It’s all excuses my man.  Russel Wilson has played with poor OLs, bad WRs and he’s great.  The list of QBs that have done it in bad situations is long.  If he doesn’t prove he has the ability to do it, then it’s time to move on.

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, that aint happening.  Youre not getting the top spot, for a top QB prospect for two of our picks.  

Ya never know.  The Jets may lay a big, fat egg this year AND the few teams that draft above them may already have QB's. 

Anything can happen however unlikely... 

[nico002]

6 minutes ago, heymangold said:

It’s all excuses my man.  Russel Wilson has played with poor OLs, bad WRs and he’s great.  The list of QBs that have done it in bad situations is long.  If he doesn’t prove he has the ability to do it, then it’s time to move on.

Russ didn't throw for 4k and 65% until he was 27 years old and in his 4th year in the NFL. He is also the 1a best QB in the NFL and a lock first ballot HOF. Your expectation for Sam at 22 on this team was to be the MVP of the league? 

[heymangold]

3 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Russ didn't throw for 4k and 65% until he was 27 years old and in his 4th year in the NFL. He is also the 1a best QB in the NFL and a lock first ballot HOF. Your expectation for Sam at 22 on this team was to be the MVP of the league? 

Wilson’s rookie year he nearly doubled Sam’s stats and was selected to the pro bowl. He’s also been to (won 1) 2 Super Bowls by year 3.

 

wilson is just 1 example. As much as we hate them, the patriots didn’t have much talent around Tom Brady a lot and they were dominant. 

[nico002]

3 minutes ago, heymangold said:

Wilson’s rookie year he nearly doubled Sam’s stats and was selected to the pro bowl. He’s also been to (won 1) 2 Super Bowls by year 3.

 

wilson is just 1 example. As much as we hate them, the patriots didn’t have much talent around Tom Brady a lot and they were dominant. 

In his rookie year the Seahawks had the 2nd best defense in nfl history and the best running back in the leuage. And no, he didn’t double Darnold statistical output that’s false. Please check Tom Brady’s stats his first 5 years in the nfl again. 
 

Dak was also better than Sam as a rookie- you think he’s better now?

[Rhg1084]

https://www.nj.com/jets/2020/07/if-jets-sam-darnold-struggles-in-2020-should-joe-douglas-draft-clemsons-trevor-lawrence-heres-why-it-would-make-sense-opinion.html
 

heres an article on this topic 

[Gangrene]

This roster despite having two extra late first round picks is too talent poor to go trading picks to draft Trevor Lawrence. That was the issue with trading up twice for Sam. We helped the Colts get better but we left the talent around Sam laughably bare.

To quote that great sage of twitter, the Seattle strong safety, "we need more dawgs".

I am a Sam believer but hypothetically if Sam had a bad year because of Sam, I'd be open to drafting a qb if a qb talent falls to us. Trading up again like we did for Sam with multiple picks?

No thanks.

[sec101row23]

So after you trade away all the first round picks for Trevor, then what?  You’re back in the same situation with a rookie QB and STILL have the roster limitations.  Build up the rest of the roster, see what Sam does over next couple seasons and if he doesn’t work out then draft DJ Uiagalelei in 3 years.   At least then you’re bringing in a rookie QB to a much better situation.  

[jago]

obviously you cant trade sam today to guarantee #1, nor should you, even post season.
holes and depth are still being filled at high impact positions.
you’ll be asking the same questions about TL as he’ll have “nothing around him” because you sold off all your draft capital.

[predator_05]

7 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

This roster despite having two extra late first round picks is too talent poor to go trading picks to draft Trevor Lawrence. That was the issue with trading up twice for Sam. We helped the Colts get better but we left the talent around Sam laughably bare.

To quote that great sage of twitter, the Seattle strong safety, "we need more dawgs".

I am a Sam believer but hypothetically if Sam had a bad year because of Sam, I'd be open to drafting a qb if a qb talent falls to us. Trading up again like we did for Sam with multiple picks?

No thanks.

 

They don't have to be late-round. What if seattle has a bad year? All the more likely with this weird COVID situation, players opting out, greater risk of injury due to lack of practice time and what not. 

[predator_05]

52 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

16 starts, no missed time.  9+ wins.  65%+ Completion rate.  4,000+ passing yards.  2:1 TD:INT ratio or better.

 

 

Zero chance of winning 9 games this year. The stats aren't difficult to achieve though. I'd be more interested in whether he can play well against good teams. If he plays well against SF and KC, i'll completely disregard the possibility of drafting Trevor Lawrence. 

[Mackman55]

At this point Sam. I'm a big Clemson fan and have to admit I was somewhat disappointed with Lawerence's entire body of work last season. I didn't see the improvement from year to year I would normally expect from a prospect of his caliber. He certainly still has the talent to be an NFL star but he is no slam dunk upgrade over our current QB. 

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, Mackman55 said:

At this point Sam. I'm a big Clemson fan and have to admit I was somewhat disappointed with Lawerence's entire body of work last season. I didn't see the improvement from year to year I would normally expect from a prospect of his caliber. He certainly still has the talent to be an NFL star but he is no slam dunk upgrade over our current QB. 

I tend to agree.   Trevor has some warts no doubt.  

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, predator_05 said:

 

If we can use JN as a microcosm of the Jets fanbase and media, there's every indication that the clamour for Lawrence will intensify immensely if there's a few bad games. That can't be good for Darnold, and the team...midway through the season. 

 

Better prospects by how much? I'm not convinced that any of these guys are superior talents. Are we irrationally excited by the next big thing?

Both Fields and Lawrence were #1 at QB in the nation.   Lawrence was #1 in the nation, and Fields was #2, overall.  Darnold, 179 and 9.   They are considerably stronger prospects and havent disappointed at all in college.   We're looking at #1 and #2 overall picks. 

I'm not saying I want either over Sam, I'm just saying by the #'s, not really close. 

[Lurker89]

We chased off Jamal (yayy!!!)

Now let's Chase off Sam. I like Sam but this could be fun. My new rooting interest will tied to how many players we can nail to the wall.

GET HIM!!! 6K yards 10 to 1 TD/Int ratio or death.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

What they were on their way into college is fine, but things change in 3-4 years.

Look at Joe Burrow  

 

No doubt but neither players have disappointed.  Lawrence has lost 1 game and been a beast and Fields looks like he's ready to set the world on fire, both could be Nat'y winners.  Not only were they higher rated coming out of High School, they outperformed him in college.

FWIW - I'm not high on Burrow.  We'll see how it translates in the NFL but I think those expecting LSU Burrow in the NFL are gonig to be severly disappointed. 

And again, I'm not saying I'd take any of them over Sam, just simply stating facts. 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

Lmao since when have High’s school recruiting rankings meant jack going into the NFL? There are hundred of 5 star recruits that don’t even get drafted. 

Since always, especially when you follow it up with a stellar college career.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, 32EBoozer said:

So we're back to the MacDaddy drafting system of BPA??!

You can win a SB with Joe Flacco if you have the talent surrounding him. We can win with Sam or Lawrence..... but you need to draft quality talent to do that.

and get the players to play as a team.  i don't have much of a problem with the jets using a top draft pick to draft another qb.  good players are always assets and can be parlayed into even better players.  but i think darnold is the real deal and barring injury or outrageous contract demands i don't see the jets moving on.  considering he posted a winning record when he played last season and with that oline play speaks volumes.

[Kleckineau]

1 hour ago, y2k8 said:

Lawrence and Fields are prospects.  Sam is a young QB in the NFL.

It's amazing how fast the shine dulls when the prospect actually has to put the big boy pants on.

Darnold has certainly lost his shine. Also I think its more a case that Jets fans are like cats chasing laser pointer.

[GreekJet]

Lawrence is the answer, but the question is this. 
 

Sam Darnold and a boat load of picks or Trevor Lawrence?

[nico002]

1 minute ago, Kleckineau said:

Darnold has certainly lost his shine. Also I think its more a case that Jets fans are like cats chasing laser pointer.

Obvious Troll is a troll