Trevor Lawrence vs Sam Darnold - who would you rather have?

[Kleckineau]

Just now, nico002 said:

Obvious Troll is a troll

GFY

[Warfish]

53 minutes ago, nico002 said:

It’s not hyperbole you troll. It’s called context.

No, it's called obvious Homerism.  Green Glasses.  Fanboi'ism.  White Kngihting.  Pick your preferred term, etc.

Sam Darnold is simply not a proven anything yet.  You can bleat on and on about "elite" this and "rare" that and "incredible" this (nope, no hyperbole here, lol), and ignore all the bad games (see below), time missed, bad throws, and discount his bottom-of-NFL-level production with all the reasons (excuses) you like, and throw the rest of the team under the bus to protect him, but end of the day, you either produce or you don't. 

There are no participation trophies in the NFL.

I'll repeat, for the slow folks:

16 starts, no missed time.  9+ wins.  65%+ Completion rate.  4,000+ passing yards.  2:1 TD:INT ratio or better.    

THAT is what a proven Franchise QB looks like.  They don't make excuses, they produce.

I'm very much looking forward to the 2020 season, because as I've said elsewhere, all those reasons/excuses guys like you make are gone.  We're materially better almost everywhere, and there is no Mono this year to hide behind.  Our O-line is average (i.e. good enough).  Our O-skill players are good enough.  Gase and Darnold are in their second year together, no complaining about "new offenses".  I'll be very excited to see what Darnold does now that the excuses are in the rear view.  I fully expect him to come very close or to exceed the numbers above this year.

53 minutes ago, nico002 said:

He already is at that level if you simply discount the NE game (the largest statistical outlier in NFL history that will never be duplicated)

You can keep posting this as many times as you want, unfortunately that game still counts as does it's stats.  

[nico002]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

No, it's called obvious Homerism.  Green Glasses.  Fanboi'ism.  White Kngihting.  Pick your preferred term, etc.

Sam Darnold is simply not a proven anything yet.  You can bleat on and on about "elite" this and "rare" that and "incredible" this (nope, no hyperbole here, lol), and ignore all the bad games (see below), time missed, bad throws, and discount his bottom-of-NFL-level production with all the reasons (excuses) you like, and throw the rest of the team under the bus to protect him, but end of the day, you either produce or you don't. 

There are no participation trophies in the NFL.

I'll repeat, for the slow folks:

16 starts, no missed time.  9+ wins.  65%+ Completion rate.  4,000+ passing yards.  2:1 TD:INT ratio or better.    

THAT is what a proven Franchise QB looks like.  They don't make excuses, they produce.

I'm very much looking forward to the 2020 season, because as I've said elsewhere, all those reasons/excuses guys like you make are gone.  We're materially better almost everywhere, and there is no Mono this year to hide behind.  Our O-line is average (i.e. good enough).  Our O-skill players are good enough.  Gase and Darnold are in their second year together, no complaining about "new offenses".  I'll be very excited to see what Darnold does now that the excuses are in the rear view.  I fully expect him to come very close or to exceed the numbers above this year.

You can keep posting this as many times as you want, unfortunately that game still counts as does it's stats.  

The hypocrisy in your response is laughable. It’s literally nothing but hyperbole and obtuse thinking. Do you watch the games or just look at a box score at the end? 

[Warfish]

28 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

Zero chance of winning 9 games this year. The stats aren't difficult to achieve though. I'd be more interested in whether he can play well against good teams. If he plays well against SF and KC, i'll completely disregard the possibility of drafting Trevor Lawrence. 

Of all the metrics I listed, that is the one I would perhaps have the most flexibility coming off of.  Maybe.

We play in one of the weakest divisions in the NFL right now.  No one in our own division is "elite" today, hell Buffalo is a pedestrian team as are the Brady-less Pats, and the Phins are just like us for the most part, albeit a little behind timeline wise.

We play a harder schedule, yes.  That's not an excuse, Franchise QB's find ways to elevate their surrounding talent and to beat winning teams.  

If Sam plays all 16, throws for 67% completions, has 4,098 passing yards, 25 TD's and 11 INT's, and wins 8 games for this or that reason not on his own head (say the D blows three games or somesuch), that would be a great thing and go a long way to "proving" Sam to some degree.  He'd still have to repeat it in 2021 tbqh, one year is just one year.  

See that's the thing, homers like nico have Sam in the Hall already based on one throw here, one play there, and a bag of hot air.  Being proven isn't a one-play or one-game thing.  It's consistent high-level play, high-level production and winning games over multiple years and seasons.

[predator_05]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

See that's the thing, homers like nico have Sam in the Hall already based on one throw here, one play there, and a bag of hot air.  Being proven isn't a one-play or one-game thing.  It's consistent high-level play, high-level production and winning games over multiple years and seasons.

 

Very true. Patience has limits.

[Beerfish]

Darnold, plus the all pro guard, and pro bowler Wr drafted players that it would take to get Lawrence.

The impeccable prospect Lawrence showed some big chinks in the armour last year.

[Obrien2Toon]

Put this in a non Jets fan forum and it’s 99.9% Lawrence

[johnnysd]

4 hours ago, predator_05 said:

When the team predictably gets off to a slow start, the vultures will circle around and pick their targets. 

 

One of these targets will be our QB. The vultures will swoop, bearing cries of "Is Darnold the answer?", "SHOULD the jets draft Trevor lawrence?", "The arizona cardinals took kyler murray 1st overall with Josh rosen on the roster!", "How many more years does he need?"

For this reason, I have decided to preemptively create a designated 'kill zone' within this thread - one where we can freely shoot down any vultures without fear of reproach or consequence. 

 

Have at it, gentlemen. Here is the case for Trevor Lawrence:

 

Such a stupid article. It is NOT likely that SAM will be bad and NOT likely that we will play bad enough to get to #1 with any package of picks. The team picking Lawrence is the team that has the worst record this year.

[Obrien2Toon]

15 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

Lawrence is the answer, but the question is this. 
 

Sam Darnold and a boat load of picks or Trevor Lawrence?

This is the real question 

of course you’d rather have Lawrence, the picks make it a tough call

[southtown24th]

Saying Sam.

Too early to tell either way.

[nico002]

4 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

Put this in a non Jets fan forum and it’s 99.9% Lawrence

yea because the only game they saw of darnold last year was the pats game. The only people qualified to answer this question are jets fans. Please, we are the most negative fans out there. IF we overwhelming are all in on Darnold its for a good reason. My avatar is a chad pennington throwing a duck for a reason, I am not a QB homer. I just see something very different in this kid. 

[freestater]

23 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

Lawrence is the answer, but the question is this. 
 

Sam Darnold and a boat load of picks or Trevor Lawrence?

That's it precisely. 

[jcass10]

Thankfully, the decision will more than be made for us.

If the Jets are in position to legitimately draft Lawrence, than Sam probably had a poor year, and the Jets will look to move on.

If Sam has a great year, the team wont be in position to take Lawrence.

[Scoop24]

This is Sam’s year 3. Kid has to show what he’s got. he’s gotta finally answer the question can he carry a team like a Watson . His play is gonna determine how we go forward . Cause if he plays bad with this roster where easily gonna be in the  top 3 Pick Range. With 2 blue chip QB options sitting there. If he plays well. We are not not in range of those QB.. Give him his Extension and move on .

[THE BARON]

29 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

Lawrence is the answer, but the question is this. 
 

Sam Darnold and a boat load of picks or Trevor Lawrence?

Well... If the Jets give up a number one in 2021 and a number one in 2022 to move up and take TL, they STILL have a first round selection in 2021 and 2022.  

I also have to say again,  If Gase stays, TL is the type of QB that would be ideal for his system while Darnold is not.

[nico002]

29 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

GFY

Eat a D

[jbone]

9 minutes ago, nico002 said:

yea because the only game they saw of darnold last year was the pats game. The only people qualified to answer this question are jets fans. Please, we are the most negative fans out there. IF we overwhelming are all in on Darnold its for a good reason. My avatar is a chad pennington throwing a duck for a reason, I am not a QB homer. I just see something very different in this kid. 

At this point, it's way beyond homerism bud.

[nico002]

2 minutes ago, jbone said:

At this point, it's way beyond homerism bud.

Why because I have a opinion that isn’t the same as yours?

[freestater]

I'm with Sam. He's a good football player. Really got to like the person he is too. He's all ball. Kid puts in the work, and seems like a nice guy who doesn't rock the boat or forget about the team. Can he become a leader? We'll see, but its nice to actually root for a guy I genuinely like. Would Trevor Lawrence be that? Maybe, but Sam is. Hey, I had my worries when we drafted him. Wanted Mayfield tbh. ****, I thought Rosen was gonna put it all together and become a star so it shows what I know. Truth is none of us know whats gonna happen. Certainly not anybody who thought Patrick Ramsey was gonna save us.

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Well... If the Jets give up a number one in 2021 and a number one in 2022 to move up and take TL, they STILL have a first round selection in 2021 and 2022.  

I also have to say again,  If Gase stays, TL is the type of QB that would be ideal for his system while Darnold is not.

You think it’s only going to take a swapping of firsts in 2021 and only one of the 2022 firsts to get Trevor?   That’s a pipe dream.  

[Jetluv58]

Sam. He’s our man. Hoping he and the Jets keep moving forward and flying higher. 

[Warfish]

25 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

Put this in a non Jets fan forum and it’s 99.9% Lawrence

Probably.  Doesn't make it correct, tho.

[jbone]

6 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Why because I have a opinion that isn’t the same as yours?

No, that's not it.

[THE BARON]

10 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You think it’s only going to take a swapping of firsts in 2021 and only one of the 2022 firsts to get Trevor?   That’s a pipe dream.  

You swap 1's in 2021 AND give them your second 1st in 2021 and one of your two 1's in 2022.  AND... If they need a QB, Darnold too.

Remember.  The team we swap with might not even be in the running for a QB.  Suppose it is Miami at  the bottom with Tua ??? You dont think they would trade down a few spots for TWO firs round picks ???

[BigRy56]

Sam Darnold all day but with that said if we pick #1 that means Darnold sucks and he can hit the bricks

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, THE BARON said:

You swap 1's in 2021 AND give them your second 1st in 2021 and one of your two 1's in 2022.  AND... If they need a QB, Darnold too.

Remember.  The team we swap with might not even be in the running for a QB.  Suppose it is Miami at  the bottom with Tua ??? You dont think they would trade down a few spots for TWO firs round picks ???

Will take more than that.  You don’t think there will be competition for that pick?   And yea, of course the team trading out isn’t going to be looking for a QB, that’s a given.  

[PS17]

I’m a Darnold fan but the answer is Lawrence.

[THE BARON]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

Will take more than that.  You don’t think there will be competition for that pick?   And yea, of course the team trading out isn’t going to be looking for a QB, that’s a given.  

What would you say would it take to buy that first overall spot next year ??? 

[nico002]

Just now, THE BARON said:

What would you say would it take to buy that first overall spot next year ??? 

Say its someone like the Colts

 

They'd have to give up Q Nelson + their 1st & 2nd picks in 2020 and 2021 at least. 

[sec101row23]

3 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

What would you say would it take to buy that first overall spot next year ??? 

Depending on how far you have to go I would say the team trading out would want all of the Jets firsts in 2021 and 2022 to start.  

[heymangold]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

In his rookie year the Seahawks had the 2nd best defense in nfl history and the best running back in the leuage. And no, he didn’t double Darnold statistical output that’s false. Please check Tom Brady’s stats his first 5 years in the nfl again. 
 

Dak was also better than Sam as a rookie- you think he’s better now?

Yes - dak is a better qb than Sam.

[Claymation]

Jets Fans Love Shiny New Toys.

[nico002]

2 minutes ago, heymangold said:

Yes - dak is a better qb than Sam.

OK you're disqualified from this conversation. 

[JiFields]

52 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

Put this in a non Jets fan forum and it’s 99.9% Lawrence

And the 00.01% was a Jets fan.

[heymangold]

1 minute ago, nico002 said:

OK you're disqualified from this conversation. 

Just look at the stats man.  He’s better.  Sam hasn’t proven anything except doing well against a poor schedule.  Until he wins more than 7 games and can actually win, he is still unproven.