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Trevor Lawrence vs Sam Darnold - who would you rather have?


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  1. 1. Who should be the Jets QB?



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If Darnold has a good year you trade him for 2 first and 2 seconds. Then you draft Lawrence. You keep Lawrence for 4 years and then flip him for 3 firsts and 2 seconds. Rinse and repeat for 10 Super B

Sam Darnold, he’s proven. He’s a better natural passer than Lawrence, he’s better for the New York media, and be doesn’t look like a girl.   Lawrence is good but he’s overrated to a degree. He

He proved to have rare natural ability to throw in the move, off platform, with incredible accuracy and touch  He proved that he has the talent to put together multiple “elite level” performances

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

Laughable?  Let me play this out for you;

Justin Fields was a 5 star recruit, #1 at his position and then #2 prospect in the entire country.  He's the odds on favorite to win the Heisman and OSU is probably the odds on favorite to win the Nat'y, because of Fields.  

Sam Darnold was a 4 star recruit, #9 at his position and #179 prospect in the entire country.

Technically, by the #'s, Fields is a much better prospect. 

You do have to watch the tape tho.

 

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Just now, Guilhermezmc said:

You do have to watch the tape tho.

 

No doubt.  The tape will equate to Lawrence going #1 and Fields going #2.  lol

Like I said, right now I'd take Sam because I've seen him flash in the pros IMO an almost like Rodgers like ceiling or maybe Romo to be more fair since Rodgers is the best talent I've ever seen at QB.  And at the end of the day, that just holds more weight than the maybe of Lawrence and Fields.  Subject to change but that's where I'm at a now. 

Hell, I'd take Sam over Burrow, Tua, Herbert and Love too, just like Baker, Allen and call me crazy, maybe even Jackson.

 

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40 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Well... If the Jets give up a number one in 2021 and a number one in 2022 to move up and take TL, they STILL have a first round selection in 2021 and 2022.  

I also have to say again,  If Gase stays, TL is the type of QB that would be ideal for his system while Darnold is not.

It will likely cost the Jets all four first rounders the next two years plus other mid round picks. Anyway you slice it the Jets will have to blow up the franchise again. 

He might be worth it, but it’s a tough sell three years into Darnold. 

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Basically if I'm starting a franchise right now, all things the same and I'm building for a future long term Patriots-esque minus the cheating, run, I'd take:

Mahomes, Watson, Wentz, Darnold, Jackson - everyone else is too old.

So gfy anyone who thinks I'm hating on our boy.

:-) 

 

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1 minute ago, GreekJet said:

It will likely cost the Jets all four first rounders the next two years plus other mid round picks. Anyway you slice it the Jets will have to blow up the franchise again. 

He might be worth it, but it’s a tough sell three years into Darnold. 

Fair points but still a better decision than resigning him ala Sanchez.

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There is so much involved in this, and nothing can be discounted at this point. 

I will preface everything I'm going to say by just saying I like Sam. Fell in love with him in that Rose Bowl Game where I saw basically a 20 year old kid take over a bowl game and played like a seasoned professional. That was just a clinic in gunslinging, no fear quarterbacking, and was as amazing a performance as anything I have ever watched from any quarterback college or pro.

Sam seems like a really good guy, but there's a lot of really good guys in the NFL and we can't hang on to people just because they seem nice or are media savvy. The biggest thing we have going right now is that Joe Douglas has an absolute haul of draft picks to make over the roster in next 2 years. He can completely rebuild this team over the next 2 to 3 seasons. The question is well Sam Darnold be part of that rebuild? I don't know. This year is going to be strange, but this is a make or break year.  It's bad timing, but it is what it is.

Sam has to perform well, the record isn't just on him obviously,  but he has to be a consistent performer. We can't have one game with 350 yards and 3 touchdowns followed by 3 games of barely 200 yards and a few picks and an anemic offence. He has to be consistent. He has to show command. He has to be the guy he was drafted to be. If he isn't, if he struggles again, if he misses considerable time again, then yes we will have to start looking at other options.

That doesn't meanit's a done deal obviously, but do we want to give an extension and that kind of money to somebody we still don't know the final answer on?

 

In the unlikely but highly possible event that the jets completely sh*t the bed this season, if the season happens, and we are 2 and 14 or whatever, and we are in the top 2 or 3 picks, then I absolutely think the reality says we have to look at Fields and Lawrence.

Sam is a great guy, but so are Fields and Lawrence from what I understand. Both of them will be higher rated prospects coming out than Sam was. The optics will be bad, but optics are not what the NFL exists for, current events notwithstanding.

 

If Sam struggles, if he does not definitively prove that he is worthy of being called a franchise quarterback, and with massive financial implications and the ability to draft and build around ANY quarterback, whoever it may be, then yes, these are things that are within the realm of possibility..

 

What do I hope happens? I hope Darnold takes command of this team and this offence. I hope he has a true breakout season.  Record be damned, if Sam comes out and throws for over 4000 yards,  30 touchdowns and looks to be the guy in charge and in command of this team, and is making throws we know he is capable of CONSISTENTLY, is an accurate passer (both short and long), and shows all of the poise and command that a franchise quarterback should show, then even if we're 7 and 9, we know we have our guy. There are still a lot of holes in this offence... So yes that's what I hope happens, but this is not something that is certain.

 

What do I think will happen? I think Sam has an "OK" season. I think the season will be a bit squirrelly and I honestly think that we wind up with using the 5th year option and looking at making a deal with a guy that we still aren't sold on 100%.

But if the season goes poorly enough and we are in a position that without having to deal all of that draft capital away (again), and we can grab Lawrence or Fields?  Yes. You draft that top prospect, get another QB to build around with that Team Friendly rookie deal, and try to deal Sam. 

 

Sorry. Its a business 

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5 minutes ago, Kleckineau said:

Fair points but still a better decision than resigning him ala Sanchez.

Is it? What if three years from now Lawrence is in the same boat as Darnold? Joe Douglas is probably fired. It’s a lot easier to navigate through a bad contract than it is to recoup flushed draft picks. 

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15 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

There is so much involved in this, and nothing can be discounted at this point. 

I will preface everything I'm going to say by just saying I like Sam. Fell in love with him in that Rose Bowl Game where I saw basically a 20 year old kid take over a bowl game and played like a seasoned professional. That was just a clinic in gunslinging, no fear quarterbacking, and was as amazing a performance as anything I have ever watched from any quarterback college or pro.

Sam seems like a really good guy, but there's a lot of really good guys in the NFL and we can't hang on to people just because they seem nice or are media savvy. The biggest thing we have going right now is that Joe Douglas has an absolute haul of draft picks to make over the roster in next 2 years. He can completely rebuild this team over the next 2 to 3 seasons. The question is well Sam Darnold be part of that rebuild? I don't know. This year is going to be strange, but this is a make or break year.  It's bad timing, but it is what it is.

Sam has to perform well, the record isn't just on him obviously,  but he has to be a consistent performer. We can't have one game with 350 yards and 3 touchdowns followed by 3 games of barely 200 yards and a few picks and an anemic offence. He has to be consistent. He has to show command. He has to be the guy he was drafted to be. If he isn't, if he struggles again, if he misses considerable time again, then yes we will have to start looking at other options.

That doesn't meanit's a done deal obviously, but do we want to give an extension and that kind of money to somebody we still don't know the final answer on?

 

In the unlikely but highly possible event that the jets completely sh*t the bed this season, if the season happens, and we are 2 and 14 or whatever, and we are in the top 2 or 3 picks, then I absolutely think the reality says we have to look at Fields and Lawrence.

Sam is a great guy, but so are Fields and Lawrence from what I understand. Both of them will be higher rated prospects coming out than Sam was. The optics will be bad, but optics are not what the NFL exists for, current events notwithstanding.

 

If Sam struggles, if he does not definitively prove that he is worthy of being called a franchise quarterback, and with massive financial implications and the ability to draft and build around ANY quarterback, whoever it may be, then yes, these are things that are within the realm of possibility..

 

What do I hope happens? I hope Darnold takes command of this team and this offence. I hope he has a true breakout season.  Record be damned, if Sam comes out and throws for over 4000 yards,  30 touchdowns and looks to be the guy in charge and in command of this team, and is making throws we know he is capable of CONSISTENTLY, is an accurate passer (both short and long), and shows all of the poise and command that a franchise quarterback should show, then even if we're 7 and 9, we know we have our guy. There are still a lot of holes in this offence... So yes that's what I hope happens, but this is not something that is certain.

 

What do I think will happen? I think Sam has an "OK" season. I think the season will be a bit squirrelly and I honestly think that we wind up with using the 5th year option and looking at making a deal with a guy that we still aren't sold on 100%.

But if the season goes poorly enough and we are in a position that without having to deal all of that draft capital away (again), and we can grab Lawrence or Fields?  Yes. You draft that top prospect, get another QB to build around with that Team Friendly rookie deal, and try to deal Sam. 

 

Sorry. Its a business 

Sam is under contract for 3 more years + tags... of course he has to play well, and he will. Having to move on from Darnold is a worst case scenario for this franchise.

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2 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Sam is under contract for 3 more years + tags... of course he has to play well, and he will. Having to move on from Darnold is a worst case scenario for this franchise.

Yeah  but here's the deal. The word "generational" has gotten thrown around here quite a bit lately, and wrongly imo. But Trevor Lawrence truly is a "generational" talent and prospect. Sam wasn't and isn't.  

 

With our luck, Sam will be "adequate" for 8 years or so, and we'll miss our chance on a "Generational" talent. Its all just conjecture and discussion right now, and I WANT Darnold to be the answer....but in a vacuum, you take Lawrence every time.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I'll repeat, for the slow folks:

16 starts, no missed time.  9+ wins.  65%+ Completion rate.  4,000+ passing yards.  2:1 TD:INT ratio or better.    

 

Interestingly enough, if his numbers improve at the same level they did last year compared to rookie, he'll hit basically all of those criteria. That's why the biggest thing looking forward imo is his growth. He doesn't need to set the world on fire yet, but if he continues to show growth and improvement he'll get there. 

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48 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

If the jets stink again Lawrence should be the pick.

I agree... FULLY.  No QB = NO FRACHISE/NO FUTURE

*IF* Sam shows no sign of being the guy, blow it all up.  Trade all four first round picks to get Lawrence

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If Darnold has a good year (which I think he will and then some), this is a moot point. 

As good as Lawrence is, for a team that is still rebuilding, having to give up most if not all of the draft capital required to trade up for Lawrence could be counterproductive to rebuilding a roster full of holes and lacking depth. Unless Darnold regresses badly in year 3, I think he's our guy through his rookie contract at least. If he hasn't proven he's a legit franchise QB by then, at that point the Jets can think about moving on.  

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18 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Yeah  but here's the deal. The word "generational" has gotten thrown around here quite a bit lately, and wrongly imo. But Trevor Lawrence truly is a "generational" talent and prospect. Sam wasn't and isn't.  

 

With our luck, Sam will be "adequate" for 8 years or so, and we'll miss our chance on a "Generational" talent. Its all just conjecture and discussion right now, and I WANT Darnold to be the answer....but in a vacuum, you take Lawrence every time.  

 

 

I disagree. I think Darnold has more unique and special physical talent than Lawrence. Lawrence is very polished and has great size, he’s a “cleaner” prospect for sure but I don’t see as much upside. 

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Trevor Lawrence looks like a better prospect than Darnold. He does a lot of what Sam does without the poor decisions and poor deep ball.

If Darnold doesn’t play well this year and we are in position to draft Lawrence, take him.

With that said, I think Darnold is going to prove he’s a FQB. So, I don’t think we’ll be in position to draft Lawrence. Grab a WR in the first and an OL if the unit still needs improvement. 

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40 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Sam is under contract for 3 more years + tags... of course he has to play well, and he will.

You know how you can identify a Homer?

When they cannot conceptualize even the very idea that the thing they believe so deeply in might not happen or happen as well as they think.

Lets be clear, you have no idea if "he will" or not.  

You can root for it, hope for it, even predict it based on sound analytics, analysis and evaluation.  But you don't know it, yet at every juncture, you state things as unquestionable definitives.  Unless you have a Delorian with Flux Capacitor upgrades sitting around someplace, you don't "know" anything more than the rest of us non-time-travelers.

Objective people generally avoid use of definitives about the future.  We know things may go as we think, but it certainly might not.

You'll ignore this, like you tend to ignore most things that run counter to your beliefs.  But it could certainly do you so good.

 

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

You know how you can identify a Homer?

When they cannot conceptualize even the very idea that the thing they believe so deeply in might not happen or happen as well as they think.

Lets be clear, you have no idea if "he will" or not.  

You can root for it, hope for it, even predict it based on sound analytics, analysis and evaluation.  But you don't know it, yet at every juncture, you state things as unquestionable definitives.  Unless you have a Delorian with Flux Capacitor upgrades sitting around someplace, you don't "know" anything more than the rest of us non-time-travelers.

Objective people generally avoid use of definitives about the future.  We know things may go as we think, but it certainly might not.

You'll ignore this, like you tend to ignore most things that run counter to your beliefs.  But it could certainly do you so good.

 

Dude go **** off, please stop wasting your energy, everyone knows your schtick.

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I have been watching the Jets since the late 70s and while I have seen QBs come in and play at an elite level in certain seasons, we have *never* had a QB star.  Ever. (I can't count the Favre aberration).

So it's always surprising to me that given our abysmal legacy at QB, Jets fans would be willing to cast off someone who (while still has much to prove) is actually trending towards becoming a very good QB in this league.  

My point is, if Sam's ceiling ends up being Eli Manning - isn't that enough?  Would that not be an exceptional upgrade at the position and one that allows for a team to be built to compete for a Super Bowl?

Maybe it's better tha he's just a top 10 guy and you don't have to pay him a billion dollars.  

Trevor Lawrence is no sure thing, btw.  None of them are.

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4 hours ago, jetswin said:

How is this thread possible? lol

I forgot what the busy boards could get like, Darnold has 1.5 years under his belt and has had zero around him for that time...by all means let's run him out of town, smh

Thank you!

I essentially keep posting the following  facts concerning Sam Darnold‘s NFL Record in the NFL. 

Sam Darnold’s record is 7-1 when he gets AVERAGE OL play according to PFF and he has an QBR of 107.  

Sam’s one loss was in the Green Bay game in which the Jets were clearly cheated.  

I don’t think that to many QBs are going to have a better record that this and that includes a college QB named Lawrence.  

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1 hour ago, GreekJet said:

Is it? What if three years from now Lawrence is in the same boat as Darnold? Joe Douglas is probably fired. It’s a lot easier to navigate through a bad contract than it is to recoup flushed draft picks. 

In other words keep Darnold regardless of performance or lack thereof ala Sanchez last contract??

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3 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

I have been watching the Jets since the late 70s and while I have seen QBs come in and play at an elite level in certain seasons, we have *never* had a QB star.  Ever. (I can't count the Favre aberration).

So it's always surprising to me that given our abysmal legacy at QB, Jets fans would be willing to cast off someone who (while still has much to prove) is actually trending towards becoming a very good QB in this league.  

My point is, if Sam's ceiling ends up being Eli Manning - isn't that enough?  Would that not be an exceptional upgrade at the position and one that allows for a team to be built to compete for a Super Bowl?

Maybe it's better that he's just a top 10 guy and you don't have to pay him a billion dollars.  

Trevor Lawrence is no sure thing, btw.  None of them are.

Fair post. I would be satisfied with him in the top 10 /  Eli catagory as long as winning seasons are part of the package however you say he is trending and maybe he is. Some of us just dont feel as bullish as you do for good reason.

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I'm not sure if this thread is real or satire. Am I reading that people want to trade draft capital for Lawrence? Let's set up another "can't miss" prospect for failure by not surrounding him with talent. If we trade for Lawrence, we are winding the clock back to Darnold's rookie year. I am sure glad that JD is GM and not this board. 

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6 hours ago, JiF said:

This is why I started that thread about having 4 picks in the 1st round, Lawrence and Fields are both arguably better prospects than Darnold.  I like me some Sammy boy and I hope he puts any thought of replacing him to rest this season but you'd be foolish to think this isnt a possibility. 

Lawrence yes but, man, I can't shake something off about Fields.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

Basically if I'm starting a franchise right now, all things the same and I'm building for a future long term Patriots-esque minus the cheating, run, I'd take:

Mahomes, Watson, Wentz, Darnold, Jackson - everyone else is too old.

So gfy anyone who thinks I'm hating on our boy.

:-) 

 

Unfortunately, I don't think there is going to be an NCAA season, otherwise I'd say seriously keep an eye on Trey Lance's stock.  I think he's the 2nd best guy in the class.

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