Kittle, 49ers have significant disconnect in contract talks

[Jetsfan80]

Comes with the territory when you're a TE, unfortunately.  The league has colluded to keep that position cheap for years.

Hey, John Lynch, we've got picks for days.  Just saying....

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/george-kittle-49ers-significant-disconnect-in-contract-talks

Kittle, 49ers have significant disconnect in contract talks

Kevin Patra

AROUND THE NFL WRITER

 

Perhaps John Lynch's optimism about getting George Kittle's deal done wasn't so rosy after all.

NFL Network's Mike Silver reported Friday on Inside Training Camp Live that a gap remains between the All-Pro tight end and the 49ers, noting that Kittle doesn't want to be considered a TE in terms of his contract.

"There remains a pretty significant disconnect philosophically between the 49ers and George Kittle's camp," Silver said. "The 49ers believe they want to reset the tight end market and give him a great tight end deal, and Kittle is kind of saying, 'I think I'm more than just a tight end.' It's been a really flat market at that position. Jimmy Graham was kind of the standard off his 2014 deal. Austin Hooper eclipsed that by a little bit this past March in free agency, but if you look at him as a tight end, yeah, George Kittle can reset the market, but George Kittle, who was just voted the seventh-best player in the league by his peers, and in my opinion has earned that distinction, is thinking, 'I don't want to be called a tight end for the purposes of these negotiations."

The divide between the sides is understandable.

The tight end market has been stagnant for years. Austin Hooper signed the largest long-term deal for a tight end this offseason, earning $10.5 million per year over the four-year pact. That franchise-tagged Hunter Henry, slated to make $10.67 million, sits atop the TEs market is telling. Thanks in part to Rob Gronkowski taking team-friendly deals in New England in previous years, the top of the tight ends market hasn't progressed as the salary cap has increased.

NFL teams abhor resetting position markets. But they especially loathe blowing them up.

From Kittle's perspective, you could see why he and his camp think basing his contract off the TE market is preposterous. The No. 7 player on the NFL's "Top 100 Players of 2020" list is far more than a TE. He's the 49ers' top target, a YAC machine, a bulldozing blocker and a team leader, and he generates 1.21 gigawatts of energy for San Francisco.

Lynch mentioned earlier this week that, now that the economic proposal between the NFL and NFLPA on how to handle the COVID-19 pandemic has mostly been finalized, he was more hopeful sides could work out a deal. Lynch noted it was a "tricky" contract.

That trickiness is in how each side views the market.

If the top TE would sit in the 20s of the WR market, it's understandable why Kittle would want to be viewed more in line with the multifaceted player he is than pigeonholed by position.

Kittle is set to earn $2.13 million in 2020 if sides can't bridge the gap on a new deal. It's a piddling number compared to his worth.

Lynch suggested that even without a new deal, Kittle would show up and continue to be a great teammate.

Silver, however, suggested another strategy is in play, one that could involve threatening to use the opt-out option if a deal doesn't come soon.

[Jetsfan80]

Top TE salaries:

Player	Team	Age	Total Value	Avg./Year	Total Guaranteed	Fully Guaranteed	Free Agency
Hunter Henry	Chargers	26	$10,607,000	$10,607,000	$10,607,000	$10,607,000	2021 UFA
Austin Hooper	Browns	26	$42,000,000	$10,500,000	$23,000,000	$18,500,000	2024 Void
Travis Kelce	Chiefs	31	$46,842,000	$9,368,400	$20,017,000	$10,517,000	2022 UFA
Kyle Rudolph	Vikings	31	$36,100,000	$9,025,000	$16,025,000	$9,000,000	2024 UFA
Rob Gronkowski	Buccaneers	31	$54,000,000	$9,000,000	$18,170,000	$13,170,000	2021 UFA
Zach Ertz	Eagles	30	$42,500,000	$8,500,000	$20,000,000	$13,318,527	2022 Void
Jimmy Graham	Bears	34	$16,000,000	$8,000,000	$9,000,000	$9,000,000	2022 UFA
Jared Cook	Saints	33	$15,000,000	$7,500,000	$8,000,000	$8,000,000	2021 Void

 

Top WR salaries:

Player	Team	Age	Total Value	Avg./Year	Total Guaranteed	Fully Guaranteed	Free Agency
Julio Jones	Falcons	31	$66,000,000	$22,000,000	$64,000,000	$64,000,000	2024 UFA
Amari Cooper	Cowboys	26	$100,000,000	$20,000,000	$60,000,000	$40,000,000	2025 UFA
Michael Thomas	Saints	27	$96,250,000	$19,250,000	$60,989,043	$35,648,043	2025 UFA
A.J. Green	Bengals	32	$18,171,000	$18,171,000	$17,971,000	$17,971,000	2021 UFA
Tyreek Hill	Chiefs	26	$54,000,000	$18,000,000	$35,260,000	$18,340,000	2023 UFA
Odell Beckham Jr.	Browns	28	$90,000,000	$18,000,000	$65,000,000	$40,959,000	2024 UFA
Mike Evans	Buccaneers	27	$82,500,000	$16,500,000	$55,008,000	$38,258,000	2024 UFA
Brandin Cooks	Texans	27	$81,000,000	$16,200,000	$50,459,000	$20,459,000	2024 UFA
DeAndre Hopkins	Cardinals	28	$81,000,000	$16,200,000	$49,000,000	$36,500,000	2023 UFA
Adam Thielen	Vikings	30	$64,800,000	$16,200,000	$33,000,000	$14,105,000	2025 UFA
Jarvis Landry	Browns	28	$75,500,000	$15,100,000	$47,000,000	$34,000,000	2023 UFA
Davante Adams	Packers	28	$58,000,000	$14,500,000	$18,000,000	$18,000,000	2022 UFA
Stefon Diggs	Bills	27	$72,000,000	$14,400,000	$40,007,000	$16,907,000	2024 UFA
Allen Robinson	Bears	27	$42,000,000	$14,000,000	$25,200,000	$18,000,000	2021 UFA
T.Y. Hilton	Colts	31	$65,000,000	$13,000,000	$39,000,000	$11,000,000	2021 UFA
Alshon Jeffery	Eagles	30	$52,000,000	$13,000,000	$27,000,000	$14,250,000	2022 Void
Larry Fitzgerald	Cardinals	37	$11,500,000	$11,500,000	$11,000,000	$11,000,000	2021 UFA
Keenan Allen	Chargers	28	$45,000,000	$11,250,000	$24,156,000	$20,656,000	2021 UFA
Tyrell Williams	Raiders	28	$44,400,000	$11,100,000	$22,000,000	$10,000,000	2023 UFA
Tyler Boyd	Bengals	26	$43,000,000	$10,750,000	$11,000,000	$9,000,000	2024 UFA

 

And then look at the difference between WR and TE tag value:

Position	Franchise Tag	Transition Tag
QB	$26,824,000	$24,837,000
WR	$17,865,000	$15,680,000
DE	$17,788,000	$15,184,000
CB	$16,338,000	$14,197,000
DT	$16,126,000	$13,143,000
LB	$15,828,000	$13,767,000
OL	$14,781,000	$13,505,000
S	$11,441,000	$9,860,000
TE	$10,607,000	$9,117,000

 

It's completely understandable why Kittle sees himself as a WR, and should want to be paid by one.  20 WRs make more on a per year basis than the highest paid TE in the league (21 if you don't count Henry, who is playing on the franchise tag.  Tyler Lockett makes $10.6M per; Austin Hooper makes $10.5M per).

But the league/market has stood pat on this one.  The 2014 arbitration case that deemed Jimmy Graham is a TE, not a WR, really killed the salaries for that position.

I don't see Kittle winning this battle.  In the end, he'll likely have to settle for no more than Alshon Jeffery money ($13M per, # 16 highest paid WR).

[Team archer]

Go get himmmmm

[Philc1]

Offer them 2 future firsts, a 3rd and Bradley McDougal

[Bleedin Green]

I think the other part of it is that, at any given time, TE is one position there never really seems to be a lot of "top" guys.  Arguably the greatest disparity of any position, including QB.

That's probably because, regardless of your size or blocking ability, if you're fast enough and have the receiving skills, then you're likely going to have been put at WR anyway.  Teams are generally happy with solid all-around types at the position, and they simply don't carry a big price tag with them.  It's those small handful of top guys who then get dragged down by association.

Of course, if that's how the whole league is handling it, you're not going to see any one team in a major rush to break the trend.

[Larz]

Positional value 

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I think the other part of it is that, at any given time, TE is one position there never really seems to be a lot of "top" guys.  Arguably the greatest disparity of any position, including QB.

That's probably because, regardless of your size or blocking ability, if you're fast enough and have the receiving skills, then you're likely going to have been put at WR anyway.  Teams are generally happy with solid all-around types at the position, and they simply don't carry a big price tag with them.  It's those small handful of top guys who then get dragged down by association.

Of course, if that's how the whole league is handling it, you're not going to see any one team in a major rush to break the trend.

 

Yep.  I'm sure the 49ers would like to have Kittle be reasonably happy with his deal.  But he can't hold out.  And if need be, the 49ers can tag him, twice, at a cheap rate ($10.6M).

So ultimately they are only going to be willing to give him a little more than Austin Hooper got from Cleveland.  Maybe a couple million more year than he got.  And Kittle will have to take it or leave it.  They're not going to be willing to go so high that he's getting top 10 WR money.

[BurnleyJet]

He’s an impact player, and best Tight End in the league. Panthers are paying Robby Anderson 11 mill per. Jamal Adams wants $20mill per. Throw them the Seahawks 1st in 2021 and pay the man.

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

He’s an impact player, and best Tight End in the league. Panthers are paying Robby Anderson 11 mill per. Jamal Adams wants $20mill per. Throw them the Seahawks 1st in 2021 and pay the man.

I’d love Kittle on the jets but no way the 49ers are dumb enough not to keep him

[slats]

7 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I think the other part of it is that, at any given time, TE is one position there never really seems to be a lot of "top" guys.  Arguably the greatest disparity of any position, including QB.

That's probably because, regardless of your size or blocking ability, if you're fast enough and have the receiving skills, then you're likely going to have been put at WR anyway.  Teams are generally happy with solid all-around types at the position, and they simply don't carry a big price tag with them.  It's those small handful of top guys who then get dragged down by association.

Of course, if that's how the whole league is handling it, you're not going to see any one team in a major rush to break the trend.

I think TE is the one position that is really, unfairly considered a low-value position. These are big, versatile dudes expected to be an extra lineman on one down and a receiver on the next. That should cost a lot more than it currently does, and Kittle is the type of player who could potentially reset the market. If the 49ers balk, someone else will step up and pay him on the open market. Once upon a time, OL were paid pennies compared to RBs. The TE market can be reset, too. 

[14 in Green]

He's just a TE. 

Plays a low impact position.

No impact on W/L record. 

The 49ers should just tag him for 2 years and let him rot on the bench if he wants more than 10 million per.

No team would give up more than a 1st and maybe a future 3rd for his a** anyway.

How am I doing @Jetsfan80????

[Mogglez]

8 minutes ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

He's just a TE.  Plays a low impact position. 

The 49ers should just tag him for 2 years and let him sit on the bench if he wants more than 1o million per.

No team would give up more than a 1st and maybe a future 3rd for his a** anyway.

How am I doing @Jetsfan80????

TE, especially one like Kittle, is not a low-impact position anymore.  That changed with guys like Jimmy Graham, Gronk, Aaron Hernandez, Ertz, Kelce, etc.

I'm sure there's some sarcasm in here because no one can honestly believe that 80+ catches, 1000+ yards and 5 TDs doesn't impact the W/L column not that production like that has the same impact as a Safety.

[BigRy56]

He’ll end up getting whatever he wants - he’s a superstar 

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

TE, especially one like Kittle, is not a low-impact position anymore.  That changed with guys like Jimmy Graham, Gronk, Aaron Hernandez, Ertz, Kelce, etc.

This ain’t the 80’s.  The elite TEs have been just as important as elite WRs past 25 years

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, slats said:

I think TE is the one position that is really, unfairly considered a low-value position. These are big, versatile dudes expected to be an extra lineman on one down and a receiver on the next. That should cost a lot more than it currently does, and Kittle is the type of player who could potentially reset the market. If the 49ers balk, someone else will step up and pay him on the open market. Once upon a time, OL were paid pennies compared to RBs. The TE market can be reset, too. 

At minimum, they should be paid like elite slot receivers.  Jarvis Landry lined up in the slot 77 % of the time last season for Cleveland.  It was also 77 % in 2018.  He makes $15.1M per season. 

That sounds about right for what Kittle is worth to a team.  Just outside of being paid like a top 10 WR but about 30 % more than the top TE currently makes.

[King P]

Regardless of position, Kittle is an elite playmaker. 

He'll get paid, as he should 

[slats]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

This ain’t the 80’s.  The elite TEs have been just as important as elite WRs past 25 years

This is what I think, too. The position is unfairly underpaid, unlike safety, lol. The big difference between the two positions is size. Most of the elite athletes the size of a TE either play Edge or Power Forward. But you get an athlete like that at TE, that’s a premium player. The elite athletes the size of an NFL Safety play CB or WR, or maybe learn to hit. The lesser athletes become Safeties and sometimes RBs. 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

TE, especially one like Kittle, is not a low-impact position anymore.  That changed with guys like Jimmy Graham, Gronk, Aaron Hernandez, Ertz, Kelce, etc.

I'm sure there's some sarcasm in here because no one can honestly believe that 80+ catches, 1000+ yards and 5 TDs don't impact the W/L column.

He's trying to use the "Jamal Adams doesn't make an impact" argument to suggest people are wrong about both Kittle and Adams, and should equate the two.

Problem is, SS is the least valuable position on the defense.  The dropoff from an elite SS to a middle of the pack SS is not tremendous, because SS's just don't do the things that matter much in the NFL in 2020.

The dropoff from a top-end TE to a middle-of-the-pack one, meanwhile, is tremendous.  Rob Gronkowski was arguably the game's most important offensive weapon in his prime.  Kittle and Kelce the top 2 TEs in the game, just faced off in the most recent Super Bowl.  

As the game evolves, TEs are meaning more and more to teams, while SS's are meaning less and less.  And sure, some might respond to that by saying "Well, don't SS's cover TE's?"  Not always.  FS's and even CB2s are tasked with trying to cover elite TEs these days.  

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

This is what I think, too. The position is unfairly underpaid, unlike safety, lol. The big difference between the two positions is size. Most of the elite athletes the size of a TE either play Edge or Power Forward. But you get an athlete like that at TE, that’s a premium player. The elite athletes the size of an NFL Safety play CB or WR, or maybe learn to hit. The lesser athletes become Safeties and sometimes RBs. 

The middle of the pack TEs might not be underpaid.  But the top-end TEs absolutely are. 

The distance between the elite TEs and middle of the pack ones is vast in terms of impact. 

TE should reflect the RB position a bit.  The top 5 RBs are paid a ton, and then it drops off like a cliff.  The top paid RB (McCaffrey) is paid double what the # 7 RB (Melvin Gordon) makes.  The middle of the pack starting RB pay (about $4-4.5M) is peanuts compared to the top 5 guys.

TE should be like that too.

 

Player	Team	Age	Total Value	Avg./Year	Total Guaranteed	Fully Guaranteed	Free Agency
Christian McCaffrey	Panthers	24	$64,063,412	$16,015,853	$36,346,412	$30,062,500	2026 UFA
Ezekiel Elliott	Cowboys	25	$90,000,000	$15,000,000	$50,052,137	$28,052,137	2027 UFA
Le'Veon Bell	Jets	28	$52,500,000	$13,125,000	$35,000,000	$27,000,000	2023 UFA
David Johnson	Texans	29	$39,000,000	$13,000,000	$31,882,500	$24,682,500	2022 UFA
Derrick Henry	Titans	26	$50,000,000	$12,500,000	$25,500,000	$25,500,000	2024 UFA
Kenyan Drake	Cardinals	26	$8,483,000	$8,483,000	$8,483,000	$8,483,000	2021 UFA
Melvin Gordon	Broncos	27	$16,000,000	$8,000,000	$13,500,000	$13,500,000	2022 UFA
Saquon Barkley	Giants	23	$31,194,750	$7,798,688	$31,194,750	$31,194,750	2022 UFA
Leonard Fournette	Jaguars	25	$27,150,882	$6,786,894	$27,150,882	$27,150,882	2021 UFA
Austin Ekeler	Chargers	25	$24,500,000	$6,125,000	$15,000,000	$13,750,000	2024 UFA
Todd Gurley	Falcons	26	$5,500,000	$5,500,000	$5,500,000	$5,500,000	2021 UFA
Duke Johnson	Texans	27	$15,610,000	$5,203,333	$7,757,000	$5,957,000	2022 UFA
Giovani Bernard	Bengals	29	$10,300,000	$5,150,000	$2,000,000	$2,000,000	2022 UFA
Mark Ingram	Ravens	31	$15,000,000	$5,000,000	$6,500,000	$6,500,000	2022 UFA
Jordan Howard	Dolphins	26	$9,750,000	$4,875,000	$4,750,000	$4,750,000	2022 UFA
Tevin Coleman	49ers	27	$8,500,000	$4,250,000	$5,250,000	$3,250,000	2021 UFA
James White	Patriots	28	$12,000,000	$4,000,000	$4,690,000	$4,690,000	2021 UFA

[Fantasy Island]

He should get the going rate and get it all guaranteed.  Why?  Because we are in a pandemic and viewership will be going down due to SJW propaganda. The cap will keep getting smaller.  An NFL contract is really only worth what is guaranteed.  The rest is fluff.

[T0mShane]

43 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I think the other part of it is that, at any given time, TE is one position there never really seems to be a lot of "top" guys.  Arguably the greatest disparity of any position, including QB.

That's probably because, regardless of your size or blocking ability, if you're fast enough and have the receiving skills, then you're likely going to have been put at WR anyway.  Teams are generally happy with solid all-around types at the position, and they simply don't carry a big price tag with them.  It's those small handful of top guys who then get dragged down by association.

Of course, if that's how the whole league is handling it, you're not going to see any one team in a major rush to break the trend.

I think, too, TEs take so much more abuse than a WR that it’s terrifying to pay them long term. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

SJW propaganda.

Easy solution is to give them Herman Cain money

[Fantasy Island]

49 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Easy solution is to give them Herman Cain money

Too soon?

[JPPT1974]

Wide Receivers make more than a TE!

[Welp]

Sheesh if Jarvis Landry makes 15 mil I don’t see how Kittle shouldn’t at least ask for that. No team not even the Browns would take Landry over Kittle.

[nico002]

Here is the thing. George Kittle will be 27 early this season. Do you really want to commit to a TE that plays so physically for 4+ years for huge money? I would be scared sh*tless at the back end of that contract. If kittle was 24 it would be a no brainer. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Welp said:

Sheesh if Jarvis Landry makes 15 mil I don’t see how Kittle shouldn’t at least ask for that. No team not even the Browns would take Landry over Kittle.

$13M would be a solid compromise.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He's trying to use the "Jamal Adams doesn't make an impact" argument to suggest people are wrong about both Kittle and Adams, and should equate the two.

Problem is, SS is the least valuable position on the defense.  The dropoff from an elite SS to a middle of the pack SS is not tremendous, because SS's just don't do the things that matter much in the NFL in 2020.

The dropoff from a top-end TE to a middle-of-the-pack one, meanwhile, is tremendous.  Rob Gronkowski was arguably the game's most important offensive weapon in his prime.  Kittle and Kelce the top 2 TEs in the game, just faced off in the most recent Super Bowl.  

As the game evolves, TEs are meaning more and more to teams, while SS's are meaning less and less.  And sure, some might respond to that by saying "Well, don't SS's cover TE's?"  Not always.  FS's and even CB2s are tasked with trying to cover elite TEs these days.  

I mean if the argument were that the big payday is owed to the league's top blocking TE who has a handful of checkdown receptions per season, then we'd have a comparison to make.  The Anthony Becht of safeties!

[New York Mick]

So fans that hated Adams and wanted him to be paid peanuts want to sign Kittle a kings ransom. Basically both a support position. Racists 

[ageingjetfan]

This guy is special. Great route runner, great blocker, enough speed to get up the seam. He is what you draw uo thinking of a prototype tight end, and great hands and a beast to get on the ground. Think he is the best by far and his salary should reflect that.

[jetstream23]

SS wants to be paid like a DE.

TE wants to be paid like a WR.

How many years are we away from Quentin Nelson wanting to be paid like a LT?

[jetstream23]

9 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

So fans that hated Adams and wanted him to be paid peanuts want to sign Kittle a kings ransom. Basically both a support position. Racists 

Maybe Twittists?

I haven’t seen Kittle come out and bash his organization, tell some kid in a parking lot that he wants to be traded to the Cowboys, and then sit down with a reporter to say his coach is a bad leader.

But yeah, it’s the color of his skin.

[New York Mick]

Lmao

[Biggs]

They will sign him.  He's not just a great pass catcher, he's the key blocker in their zone running game.  He's worth more to SF than almost any other team in the league.  Shanahan would be insane to let him go.

[UntouchableCrew]

If I'm Kittle I play out my contract (only four years as he wasn't a first rounder) let them tag me twice and hit the open market as an UFA. That's the only way he'll ever get close to his market value, and for a guy like him (who's an elite level player hampered by a weak market for the position) it's worth the injury risk.