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Kittle, 49ers have significant disconnect in contract talks


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47 minutes ago, isired said:
4 hours ago, Philc1 said:
Offer them 2 future firsts, a 3rd and Bradley McDougal

They might do it as long as its the Jets firsts and not the Seahawks...

The Seahawks are their rival maybe they do it just f with them

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If I'm Kittle I play out my contract (only four years as he wasn't a first rounder) let them tag me twice and hit the open market as an UFA. That's the only way he'll ever get close to his market value, and for a guy like him (who's an elite level player hampered by a weak market for the position) it's worth the injury risk. 

  

By then he’ll be 30. Not exactly the best age to hit the open market. And who knows what kind of beating his body will have taken in the next 3 seasons.

 

He needs to get his payday now. Or at the very least after the 2020 season.

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8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

  

By then he’ll be 30. Not exactly the best age to hit the open market. And who knows what kind of beating his body will have taken in the next 3 seasons.

 

He needs to get his payday now. Or at the very least after the 2020 season.

He'll be 29 and he'll make bank. 

If all he wants is to be the highest paid tight end, sure. If he wants a "reset the market" deal that's the way to do it.

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16 hours ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

He's just a TE. 

Plays a low impact position.

No impact on W/L record. 

The 49ers should just tag him for 2 years and let him rot on the bench if he wants more than 10 million per.

No team would give up more than a 1st and maybe a future 3rd for his a** anyway.

How am I doing @Jetsfan80????

Not analagous.  one is entering the final year of contract and the other had two years left.  One is a solid all-around person and the other is a narcisstic, me-first, throw team and anyone under the bus guy.

You fail.

Again.

As always.

 

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He'll be 29 and he'll make bank.  If all he wants is to be the highest paid tight end, sure. If he wants a "reset the market" deal that's the way to do it.

 

 

He turns 27 in October.

 

And he might be too broken down to reset the market by then. He doesn’t need to be signing any franchise tags for Austin Hooper money. Let alone 2 of them.

 

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19 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Comes with the territory when you're a TE, unfortunately.  The league has colluded to keep that position cheap for years.

Hey, John Lynch, we've got picks for days.  Just saying....

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/george-kittle-49ers-significant-disconnect-in-contract-talks

Kittle, 49ers have significant disconnect in contract talks

Headshot_Author_Kevin-Patra_2020

Kevin Patra

AROUND THE NFL WRITER

 

Perhaps John Lynch's optimism about getting George Kittle's deal done wasn't so rosy after all.

NFL Network's Mike Silver reported Friday on Inside Training Camp Live that a gap remains between the All-Pro tight end and the 49ers, noting that Kittle doesn't want to be considered a TE in terms of his contract.

"There remains a pretty significant disconnect philosophically between the 49ers and George Kittle's camp," Silver said. "The 49ers believe they want to reset the tight end market and give him a great tight end deal, and Kittle is kind of saying, 'I think I'm more than just a tight end.' It's been a really flat market at that position. Jimmy Graham was kind of the standard off his 2014 deal. Austin Hooper eclipsed that by a little bit this past March in free agency, but if you look at him as a tight end, yeah, George Kittle can reset the market, but George Kittle, who was just voted the seventh-best player in the league by his peers, and in my opinion has earned that distinction, is thinking, 'I don't want to be called a tight end for the purposes of these negotiations."

The divide between the sides is understandable.

The tight end market has been stagnant for years. Austin Hooper signed the largest long-term deal for a tight end this offseason, earning $10.5 million per year over the four-year pact. That franchise-tagged Hunter Henry, slated to make $10.67 million, sits atop the TEs market is telling. Thanks in part to Rob Gronkowski taking team-friendly deals in New England in previous years, the top of the tight ends market hasn't progressed as the salary cap has increased.

NFL teams abhor resetting position markets. But they especially loathe blowing them up.

From Kittle's perspective, you could see why he and his camp think basing his contract off the TE market is preposterous. The No. 7 player on the NFL's "Top 100 Players of 2020" list is far more than a TE. He's the 49ers' top target, a YAC machine, a bulldozing blocker and a team leader, and he generates 1.21 gigawatts of energy for San Francisco.

Lynch mentioned earlier this week that, now that the economic proposal between the NFL and NFLPA on how to handle the COVID-19 pandemic has mostly been finalized, he was more hopeful sides could work out a deal. Lynch noted it was a "tricky" contract.

That trickiness is in how each side views the market.

If the top TE would sit in the 20s of the WR market, it's understandable why Kittle would want to be viewed more in line with the multifaceted player he is than pigeonholed by position.

Kittle is set to earn $2.13 million in 2020 if sides can't bridge the gap on a new deal. It's a piddling number compared to his worth.

Lynch suggested that even without a new deal, Kittle would show up and continue to be a great teammate.

Silver, however, suggested another strategy is in play, one that could involve threatening to use the opt-out option if a deal doesn't come soon.

the league colluded to keep the position cheap?  hardly.  if any position is cheap it's because that's the way the player market is structured.  i don't doubt kittle is worth top pay for his position but until his positional value gets increased by the market he's pretty much stuck. 

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the league colluded to keep the position cheap?  hardly.  if any position is cheap it's because that's the way the player market is structured.  i don't doubt kittle is worth top pay for his position but until his positional value gets increased by the market he's pretty much stuck. 

 

 

See: Arbitration case in 2014 with Jimmy Graham.

 

I say again: Collusion. Elite TEs line up in the slot on the majority of snaps these days, but the league didn’t want them to count like WRs.

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18 hours ago, nico002 said:

Here is the thing. George Kittle will be 27 early this season. Do you really want to commit to a TE that plays so physically for 4+ years for huge money? I would be scared sh*tless at the back end of that contract. If kittle was 24 it would be a no brainer. 

Hes 26 and Gronk played to 30 and is now coming back as a 31 year old, with a lot of damage to his arm

Witten played to what 36?

So yes.  Its a no brainier and will get done age has absolutely nothing to do with signing Kittle

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

See: Arbitration case in 2014 with Jimmy Graham.

 

I say again: Collusion. Elite TEs line up in the slot on the majority of snaps these days, but the league didn’t want them to count like WRs.

Are you referring when Graham, a TE had arbitration to rule on whether he was a TE, which he was and not a WR, which he wanted to reinvent himself as to strengthen a case for WR money over TE money?

A case an arbitrator ruled sorry Jimmy?  

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

He turns 27 in October.

 

And he might be too broken down to reset the market by then. He doesn’t need to be signing any franchise tags for Austin Hooper money. Let alone 2 of them.

 

 

Dude's already playing with a torn labrum: https://www.nfl.com/news/george-kittle-has-played-with-torn-labrum-since-2018-0ap3000001099361

 

Who knows what else he's dealing with. These guys are warriors, but these injuries add up very quickly. 

The 49ers, in all likelihood, are well aware of this. That's why they're holding off. He's not like Gonzalez, or even Kelce, who avoid contact and rely on good footwork and route-running. 

 

My guess is, Kittle's career goes downhill just as quickly as Jimmy Graham's did. Bright start, a few big seasons, before injuries turn him into a shadow of his former self. 

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

He turns 27 in October.

 

And he might be too broken down to reset the market by then. He doesn’t need to be signing any franchise tags for Austin Hooper money. Let alone 2 of them.

 

Sure. But Austin Hooper money is a fraction of what he deserves and what he'd get on the open market.

He was a fourth round pick so it might not be crazy to get some financial guarantees but if I were him I'd roll the dice. We've seen what happens when true superstars hit UFA. It's the only time they get paid like the market demands. Easier for a guy like Kirk Cousins to risk it at the QB position but while I like the franchise tag as a fan it basically serves to suppress contracts that re-set the market. Kittle would get big time WR money for sure.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

See: Arbitration case in 2014 with Jimmy Graham.

 

I say again: Collusion. Elite TEs line up in the slot on the majority of snaps these days, but the league didn’t want them to count like WRs.

so are you advocating adams takes the league to task because his position is worth only more than punters, kickers and long snappers?  the graham case was about him changing his position to wr to take advantage of the higher value for franchise tag sake.  it doesn't sound ike the nflpa came down on his side.

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1 hour ago, rangerous said:

so are you advocating adams takes the league to task because his position is worth only more than punters, kickers and long snappers?  the graham case was about him changing his position to wr to take advantage of the higher value for franchise tag sake.  it doesn't sound ike the nflpa came down on his side.

It was an arbitration case.  One that came out in the NFL's favor.  As usual.  

In no Universe does George Kittle have significantly less impact on a team than Jarvis Landry (salary:  $15.1M per).  So the gripe for top end TE's is a legit one.

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On 8/1/2020 at 3:37 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

It was an arbitration case.  One that came out in the NFL's favor.  As usual.  

In no Universe does George Kittle have significantly less impact on a team than Jarvis Landry (salary:  $15.1M per).  So the gripe for top end TE's is a legit one.

no doubt about kittle's value or even many of the other good te's in the game today like kelce and gronk.  but the arbitration basis is set by the nflpa and nfl so it is what it is.  what is isn't is collusion.  and then look at the rate scales by position and there's a ton of disparity from the qb on down.  i, for one, don't think that many positions are valued fairly but the only way it changes is if the nflpa puts their big boy pants on and challenge it.

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4 hours ago, rangerous said:

no doubt about kittle's value or even many of the other good te's in the game today like kelce and gronk.  but the arbitration basis is set by the nflpa and nfl so it is what it is.  what is isn't is collusion.  and then look at the rate scales by position and there's a ton of disparity from the qb on down.  i, for one, don't think that many positions are valued fairly but the only way it changes is if the nflpa puts their big boy pants on and challenge it.

Right but the deck was stacked against Graham in that case.  Sean Payton himself argued on the side of the Saints/NFL that Graham was a TE, not a WR.  Graham stood little chance of winning when his own coach disputed the claim on how he was used.

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On 7/31/2020 at 2:40 PM, slats said:

I think TE is the one position that is really, unfairly considered a low-value position. These are big, versatile dudes expected to be an extra lineman on one down and a receiver on the next. That should cost a lot more than it currently does, and Kittle is the type of player who could potentially reset the market. If the 49ers balk, someone else will step up and pay him on the open market. Once upon a time, OL were paid pennies compared to RBs. The TE market can be reset, too. 

Not directed at you specifically Slats but this Low value position sh*t has got to stop (yes I read your post so continue reading :) ). If you happen to some how get an all time great at ANY position they are going to make a huge Impact the same way as if you have a pile of dog crap is going to hurt you as well. MLB are not all that great a value position as some JNer's claim but then show me Lewis or Singletary, Urlacker, Butkus and everything changes. OMG Safeties suck balls but then lets start Talking Reed, Polomalu, Lott,  this can go on and on every position with a lot more players than I mentioned its important cause if you just so happen to be weak somewhere LOW value or not another team will find a way to exploit that weakness.

Seems like the only players worth big money discussion are QB LT WR DE CB .... And I'm sorry but that's not all football is about.  Especially when your team may be just one or 2 players away from serious SB contention and you lack a Big time TE or a Difference making safety or MLB. Everyone is going to view how a team should be built differently and if you asked me If I would start building a team with an Ed Reed or a Ray Lewis or a Rob Gronkowski your damn right I would say yes every single time no matter how people view the value at the position. 

Some coaches use guys in different ways and view guys in different ways its not always about what some draft idiot values A guy at it what a team needs or a coach needs to make his schemes click. So lets stop labeling positions with high or low value because if everyone had the perfect formula they would be Bill Belichick a guys who wins if he plugs mary poppins in any where he damn well pleases.

Just like @slats says here maybe there are not so many high end TE's because it just so happens to be one of the most difficult positions in the NFL game. Always has been. Same comes into play with positions like Safety where you have multiple assignments on any given play. Its not like a CB or WR where you run your designed route or cover your designated player. IMHO if anything easier positions to play are the ones who get paid high cause its easier for them to excel with minimal assignments. 

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Not directed at you specifically Slats but this Low value position sh*t has got to stop (yes I read your post so continue reading :) ). If you happen to some how get an all time great at ANY position they are going to make a huge Impact the same way as if you have a pile of dog crap is going to hurt you as well.

If anything, positional importance needs to be hammered home even more than it was before.  Mike Maccagnan completely ignored positional importance in making his picks and as a result he put together the worst stretch of drafts in franchise history.

You may not put much stock in it but Joe Douglas sure seems to.  A LT at pick 11, a WR in Rd 2, a high ceiling EDGE in Rd 3, a huge influx of new CBs, and Jamal Adams getting traded away would seem to demonstrate that.  

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

Not directed at you specifically Slats but this Low value position sh*t has got to stop (yes I read your post so continue reading :) ). If you happen to some how get an all time great at ANY position they are going to make a huge Impact the same way as if you have a pile of dog crap is going to hurt you as well. MLB are not all that great a value position as some JNer's claim but then show me Lewis or Singletary, Urlacker, Butkus and everything changes. OMG Safeties suck balls but then lets start Talking Reed, Polomalu, Lott,  this can go on and on every position with a lot more players than I mentioned its important cause if you just so happen to be weak somewhere LOW value or not another team will find a way to exploit that weakness.

Seems like the only players worth big money discussion are QB LT WR DE CB .... And I'm sorry but that's not all football is about.  Especially when your team may be just one or 2 players away from serious SB contention and you lack a Big time TE or a Difference making safety or MLB. Everyone is going to view how a team should be built differently and if you asked me If I would start building a team with an Ed Reed or a Ray Lewis or a Rob Gronkowski your damn right I would say yes every single time no matter how people view the value at the position. 

Some coaches use guys in different ways and view guys in different ways its not always about what some draft idiot values A guy at it what a team needs or a coach needs to make his schemes click. So lets stop labeling positions with high or low value because if everyone had the perfect formula they would be Bill Belichick a guys who wins if he plugs mary poppins in any where he damn well pleases.

Just like @slats says here maybe there are not so many high end TE's because it just so happens to be one of the most difficult positions in the NFL game. Always has been. Same comes into play with positions like Safety where you have multiple assignments on any given play. Its not like a CB or WR where you run your designed route or cover your designated player. IMHO if anything easier positions to play are the ones who get paid high cause its easier for them to excel with minimal assignments. 

Why do people keep bringing up All-Time great defenders in comparison to Adams? Adams isn't even half of Polamalu or Lott, let alone Reed. Butkus and Singletary were valuable during a time in the NFL when RB's and the running game were the focal point of offenses. They were great LBers but the game has changed alot since those days. 

If Adams recorded a few interceptions a year and more pass breakups i could get on board. But the occasional pass deflection vs the #2 TE or RB does not make you elite against the pass. Reality is Adams is elite around the LoS and average in coverage, that is why Gregg Williams used him the way he did last year. Seattle gave up a fortune, comparable to the one the Rams gave for Ramsey and Bears for Mack. Is Adams a Mack or Ramsey? Not in my opinion, we'll see how the trade works out.

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40 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If anything, positional importance needs to be hammered home even more than it was before.  Mike Maccagnan completely ignored positional importance in making his picks and as a result he put together the worst stretch of drafts in franchise history.

You may not put much stock in it but Joe Douglas sure seems to.  A LT at pick 11, a WR in Rd 2, a high ceiling EDGE in Rd 3, a huge influx of new CBs, and Jamal Adams getting traded away would seem to demonstrate that.  

You read my post on the state of the Jets you know how I feel about Joe Douglas the man is going to save this franchise :) . I also know the importance of some positions over others but you just can;t ignore greatness at one position to fill a need either. All in all the draft is always a crap shoot to those who really don't understand the game and how a team should be built ...Macc was in way over his head and the only reason he did semi decent his first year with us was because he was picking from a FA crop of known talents that helped the team. If not for that prior knowledge he would have never been able to construct that team. He was just a bad all around GM while Joe Douglas is going to be an all time great IMHO.

And FWIW Macc would have never had the balls to trade Adams and if he was told to trade him by The Johnsons he probably would have walked away with a 2nd and a 3rd rather than 2 firsts and a third and a replacement at the position . No doubt Adams will help The Seahawks but teams that close to a SB have the luxury to make such a trade to get over the top teams on the cusp of the playoffs like we are simply do not. 

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38 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said:

Why do people keep bringing up All-Time great defenders in comparison to Adams? Adams isn't even half of Polamalu or Lott, let alone Reed. Butkus and Singletary were valuable during a time in the NFL when RB's and the running game were the focal point of offenses. They were great LBers but the game has changed alot since those days. 

If Adams recorded a few interceptions a year and more pass breakups i could get on board. But the occasional pass deflection vs the #2 TE or RB does not make you elite against the pass. Reality is Adams is elite around the LoS and average in coverage, that is why Gregg Williams used him the way he did last year. Seattle gave up a fortune, comparable to the one the Rams gave for Ramsey and Bears for Mack. Is Adams a Mack or Ramsey? Not in my opinion, we'll see how the trade works out.

I never had any intention of Comparing Adams to those players I mentioned, as a matter of fact Adams was not even mentioned in my post which had nothing at all to do with him. You may have taken it that way due to recent events and my post make look like it may have some influence on what recently happened with that bumbling child but I assure you my post is based more on people putting too much or too little value on most of the positions on the field. Its more in the sense of hey I know I need a OG but am I going to pass on a Ronnie Lott to draft what might amount to a good guard ? Of course not Even though Ronnie played safety for most of his career (you know a position people seem to mock here at JN) Im picking Ronnie Lott over the need position every single time ..thats the point I was trying to make It had nothing to do with jamal adams 

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32 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I never had any intention of Comparing Adams to those players I mentioned, as a matter of fact Adams was not even mentioned in my post which had nothing at all to do with him. You may have taken it that way due to recent events and my post make look like it may have some influence on what recently happened with that bumbling child but I assure you my post is based more on people putting too much or too little value on most of the positions on the field. Its more in the sense of hey I know I need a OG but am I going to pass on a Ronnie Lott to draft what might amount to a good guard ? Of course not Even though Ronnie played safety for most of his career (you know a position people seem to mock here at JN) Im picking Ronnie Lott over the need position every single time ..thats the point I was trying to make It had nothing to do with jamal adams 

Oh okay, yeah I misread that my bad.

Positional value isn't the end all be all, but it does have some merit.

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The 49ers just signed TE Jordan Reed.  Perhaps hedging their bets in case the time comes to trade Kittle?

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/49ers-ink-free-agent-te-jordan-reed-to-1-year-deal

Monday, Aug 03, 2020 03:24 PM

49ers ink free-agent TE Jordan Reed to one-year deal

 

f6b7udz3xm3jglfakq9q.svg

Jelani Scott

NFL.COM DIGITAL CONTENT PRODUCER

 

Six months after being released by Washington, Jordan Reed has found a new NFL home.

The free-agent tight end has agreed to a one-year deal with the reigning NFC champion San Francisco 49ers, NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported Monday, per an informed source. 49ers GM John Lynch later announced the yet-to-be-finalized deal. The move reunites Reed with coach Kyle Shanahan, whom he played under during his rookie season when Shanahan was his offensive coordinator.

"I think everyone's aware of Jordan's ability. When he's been healthy, he's played at an extremely high level and he's been one of the best third-down tight ends, when he's been healthy," Shanahan said while addressing the media Monday afternoon. "You're not just trying to add a number, you're adding a guy who, if he's healthy, everyone's seen how he's played in this league. ...

"I know he's hungry to come in and play football. He hasn't gotten to do much of that lately. And when you have a talented guy who's hungry to play football, it works out if he can stay healthy. Jordan's had some bad luck over the years. I know he's ready to go. I hope he has some good luck here. And if he does, I think it's going to be a hell of a deal for the Niners and a really good deal for him also."

Lynch echoed those sentiments, saying, "There is some risk-reward. We got to a point where we felt the risk that we're taking on was worth it with the potential reward."

As both Lynch and Shanahan eluded to, it's been a rollercoaster of a career for the 30-year-old Reed, a former third-round pick out of Florida back in 2013. Four of his seven NFL seasons have prematurely ended by way of a trip to the injured reserve list; in 2019, Reed suffered a concussion in the third preseason game and ended up sitting out the entire year.

When healthy, Reed has often looked like a stud, utilizing his sturdy 6-foot-3 frame and reliable hands to pull off some sensational performances. His best season came in 2016 when he played in 12 games and accumulated 66 receptions for 686 yards and six touchdowns en route to earning his first Pro Bowl nod. He was also ranked No. 65 on the NFL Top 100 list following that season.

Reed's curious tale will now continue in San Fran where he joins a more than capable organization that knows how to bring the best out of their tight ends. George Kittle will obviously receive the bulk of the action but, if things check out medically, Reed's skillset and familiarity with Shanahan could lead to a career-reviving run for the oft-injured talent.

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

I assure you my post is based more on people putting too much or too little value on most of the positions on the field. Its more in the sense of hey I know I need a OG but am I going to pass on a Ronnie Lott to draft what might amount to a good guard ? Of course not Even though Ronnie played safety for most of his career (you know a position people seem to mock here at JN) Im picking Ronnie Lott over the need position every single time ..thats the point I was trying to make It had nothing to do with jamal adams 

Offensive guard is another low level position. You don't mean Adams, but your citing a Safety as the guy you're gonna bring in? Okay. I'm assuming Ronnie Lott is your #1 all time safety? So tell me, are you building your franchise around your #1 all time safety before your #1 all time QB? LT? EDGE? WR? CB? I mean, are you really doing that? 

Positional value is a thing that, IMHO, portends to the SS and RB positions more than others. The NFL players who play those positions are generally the lesser athletes for their size at that level. The great athletes in the 6'1" 215lb range are playing WR or CB and being valued and paid accordingly. A great lesser athlete at an unimportant position like SS does not have the impact that even just a solid starter has at the positions I mentioned above. 

What's ironic is that in the post you quoted, I was arguing that TE's are unfairly considered to play a lower value position. The top guys at TE are much more valuable than the top safeties, guards, or RBs, IMHO. 

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3 hours ago, slats said:

Offensive guard is another low level position. You don't mean Adams, but your citing a Safety as the guy you're gonna bring in? Okay. I'm assuming Ronnie Lott is your #1 all time safety? So tell me, are you building your franchise around your #1 all time safety before your #1 all time QB? LT? EDGE? WR? CB? I mean, are you really doing that? 

Positional value is a thing that, IMHO, portends to the SS and RB positions more than others. The NFL players who play those positions are generally the lesser athletes for their size at that level. The great athletes in the 6'1" 215lb range are playing WR or CB and being valued and paid accordingly. A great lesser athlete at an unimportant position like SS does not have the impact that even just a solid starter has at the positions I mentioned above. 

What's ironic is that in the post you quoted, I was arguing that TE's are unfairly considered to play a lower value position. The top guys at TE are much more valuable than the top safeties, guards, or RBs, IMHO. 

Did ya read my first post ? I know OG is not a huge position in the grand scheme of things and this is not JUST about Ronnie Lott. I'm trying to say if I had the choice with hindsight and knowing my team had a position of need would I choose that position of need at a prime position like a DE or LT over a guy like Ronnie Lott or say a Ray Lewis ? no I would not. Its a tough argument to have because there  are sooooo many variables or options and in the grand scheme of things we don't really know what we are getting via the draft until the player actually gets to play. All I'm saying is its not always about the Prime Positions a lot of times it about the best player, a player you know can excel. 

No I'm not comparing an All time Safety vs other premium all time type positions like QB Edge WR ..... that's not what I'm doing at all. BUT if I had the need for an Edge Rusher a player we think might do well in the NFL and it was between him or Ronnie Lott I would choose Ronnie Lott 100 % of the time.

Now on the other side of the coin would I choose in the same Situation a Ronnie Lott over a Lawrence Taylor if I needed an edge rusher / Obviously not/

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12 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

I'm trying to say if I had the choice with hindsight and knowing my team had a position of need would I choose that position of need at a prime position like a DE or LT over a guy like Ronnie Lott or say a Ray Lewis ? no I would not.

In my opinion, you'd be making a serious mistake. A quality starter at LT or Edge -say, a player worth a second contract, but not a bank breaker- is much more valuable to an NFL team than the top SS or MLB. And if you have needs at those positions, you have a real need. There are guys lined up around the block to give you decent production at all of these lower graded positions (RB, S, G, ILB) except, maybe, TE. As Parcells used to say, there just aren't as many guys on the planet that can do the Edge or OT jobs effectively. That's why they're premium positions. 

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58 minutes ago, slats said:

In my opinion, you'd be making a serious mistake. A quality starter at LT or Edge -say, a player worth a second contract, but not a bank breaker- is much more valuable to an NFL team than the top SS or MLB. And if you have needs at those positions, you have a real need. There are guys lined up around the block to give you decent production at all of these lower graded positions (RB, S, G, ILB) except, maybe, TE. As Parcells used to say, there just aren't as many guys on the planet that can do the Edge or OT jobs effectively. That's why they're premium positions. 

So lets put the draft away for a sec since we know that's always a  crap shoot to some extent.

If you needed a LT on your football team would you Choose D-Brick or Ed Reed if I gave you the choice ? Now in my eyes D-Brick was an okay LT he gave up a lot of sacks and was not really known for his run blocking skills so that IMHO made him an average to good LT, his main attribute was his ability to stay healthy and not totally suck. He made a few pro bowls I think one as alternate. That's just my assessment. Ed Reed on the other hand played the so called non premium position yet he created havoc around the league for years and teams altered their schemes just to try and stay away from the guy. This is the kind of comparison I was talking about where a not so sought after position becomes one based on the player being over the top great. So in this this case I choose Ed Reed 100% of the time and look for my LT elsewhere. The reason I'm trying to make this point is because its not that so called non premium positions are important its about the player its always about the player . 

I see your point and really its a matter of opinion (and I don't 100% disagree with you slats depending on the situation)  on how you would build your football team. Aaron Donald is a DT well screw that crap I want a DE so would it have been better for the Rams to take the next best DE in that draft rather than Donald if they needed one which they did at the time. When it comes to the Jets we have botched so many picks its not even funny anymore. I begged in front of the TV my wife thought I was nuts when we picked that loafer Vernon Gholston he was a premium position as a DE but he was a horrible football player and he was horrible in college as well (if you actually watched him play) So were the jets thinking premium position ? who was thinking premium position when Aaron Maybin was selected The Bills . There ya have it 2 terrible drafting ting football teams for years who seem to have turned it around. 

To bring it down to its simplest terms because I'm not the greatest at explaining things sometimes. I always take the player I think is the best available in rounds one and 2 and leave the need positions to be filled in the later rounds. If you need a cant miss at a premium position and one happens to be there when you draft Awesome if hes not I.m not reaching for him

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34 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

If you needed a LT on your football team would you Choose D-Brick or Ed Reed if I gave you the choice ?

I understand your point, but no one has that kind of foresight going into the draft (and Reed is an outlier at safety). If I'm building a team, I build with the most important blocks first and try to avoid the shiny objects distracting me like a potential HoF safety. 

Oh, and I don't dismiss DT as a lower tier position, either. Jet fans have had enough, and they shouldn't be drafted every other year (or more), but it's still a premium position - especially if that DT can disrupt the pocket. I'm talking specifically about these guys in the 300-lb range who aren't athletic enough to play OT or DL, or these guys in the 6'-220lb range who play RB or safety because they're simply not athletic enough to be a WR or CB. A guy like Ed Reed might be a guy you make an extremely rare exception for, but even then I'd have to view him as leaps and bounds above my top prospect at any premium position. Replacements for a safety or RB or guard are plentiful. I fill them later in most drafts. There are exceptions and unique circumstances, but that would be my basic philosophy and I would try to adhere to it. This is why I'm a big Joe D fan, I feel like he's on the same page. 

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