Frelund: Ranking all 32 teams by their QB rooms heading into training camp

[Philc1]

On 8/5/2020 at 12:12 AM, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

Exactly my reaction.  Also a little surprised to see Baker & Co. ranked 9 spots higher.

Baker still overrated by the media.  He will be living off 2018 for years

[Philc1]

On 8/5/2020 at 8:00 AM, freestater said:

Browns @ 12. Lol

Over the Eagles, Vikings and Bills

 

hack city

[Jetsfan80]

27 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Right.

The actual players, and defensive players, that face these QB’s on a weekly basis.

Allen made the top 100 as voted by the peers who face him.

Darnold not only didn’t make the top 100, he also didn’t make the honorable mention.

In other words, other NFL players think he is pretty bad.

This is a fact. If Allen was in green, you would be gushing over him.

 

Yes, the players who are the least objective people on the planet.  It's one big popularity contest.  No one cares.

[GreenCow]

18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yes, the players who are the least objective people on the planet.  It's one big popularity contest.  No one cares.

You not caring does not mean that everyone doesn't care. Most people learned that once they reached the age of 20.

I don't think Allen is especially popular at all, so that comment doesn't make much sense to me. 

What does make sense to me is this: Allen has MORE total TD's, MORE total Yards, MORE game winning drives, LESS Interceptions, a better QB record, and does things with a football that most QB's (not just Darnold), can not do. 

The thing that (in my mind) truly seperates Allen from Darnold:

1) Pocket presence - Yeah, the O-line sucks, but you can definitely see Darnold get frazzled from pressure. Allen just sits in the pocket, not worrying, steps up when he needs to, and throws darts.

2) Arm Strength - Darnold's "weak" arm is super overblown. He has a good enough arm. But it's no where near Allen's. He is several levels away from Allens. And sometimes Allen can make tight window throws that Darnold simply cant. See the video. below.

 

 

I think if that class was re-drafted today, the Jets take Allen over Darnold.

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, GreenCow said:

You not caring does not mean that everyone doesn't care. Most people learned that once they reached the age of 20.

I don't think Allen is especially popular at all, so that comment doesn't make much sense to me. 

What does make sense to me is this: Allen has MORE total TD's, MORE total Yards, MORE game winning drives, LESS Interceptions, a better QB record, and does things with a football that most QB's (not just Darnold), can not do. 

The thing that (in my mind) truly seperates Allen from Darnold:

1) Pocket presence - Yeah, the O-line sucks, but you can definitely see Darnold get frazzled from pressure. Allen just sits in the pocket, not worrying, steps up when he needs to, and throws darts.

2) Arm Strength - Darnold's "weak" arm is super overblown. He has a good enough arm. But it's no where near Allen's. He is several levels away from Allens. And sometimes Allen can make tight window throws that Darnold simply cant. See the video. below.

 

 

I think if that class was re-drafted today, the Jets take Allen over Darnold.

 

 

 

 

Josh Allen is the least accurate QB in the NFL and that's never going to change.  Bills are getting Sanchez'd.  Especially if Allen is ever forced to be less of a runner.

Have fun.  

[Grandy]

3 hours ago, GreenCow said:

Right.

The actual players, and defensive players, that face these QB’s on a weekly basis.

Allen made the top 100 as voted by the peers who face him.

Darnold not only didn’t make the top 100, he also didn’t make the honorable mention.

In other words, other NFL players think he is pretty bad.

This is a fact. If Allen was in green, you would be gushing over him.

Carson Wentz didn't make the top 100, and is there a universe where you would take Allen over him?. It's asinine to believe in the NFL top 100 as a valid ranking system. It's a popularity contest. 

[Morrissey]

18 hours ago, TNJet said:

Frelund should just get nude in my bedroom for a career...

imagine thinking this sh*t is funny

[GreenCow]

58 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Carson Wentz didn't make the top 100, and is there a universe where you would take Allen over him?. It's asinine to believe in the NFL top 100 as a valid ranking system. It's a popularity contest. 

Ive never thought of Josh Allen as popular in any way.

Have you?

But either way, here's the deal. Even if you don't trust NFL players to rank their own competition, trust the stats.

Allen has MORE total TD's, MORE total Yards, MORE game winning drives, LESS Interceptions, and a better QB record.

[Claymation]

15 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Ive never thought of Josh Allen as popular in any way.

Have you?

But either way, here's the deal. Even if you don't trust NFL players to rank their own competition, trust the stats.

Allen has MORE total TD's, MORE total Yards, MORE game winning drives, LESS Interceptions, and a better QB record.

Darnold has more passing yards, thrown for more TDs and 1st downs in fewer games.

As Mark Twain once wrote, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[GreenCow]

11 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Darnold has more passing yards, thrown for more TDs and 1st downs in fewer games.

As Mark Twain once wrote, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Scrambling is now allowed by the NFL.

New rule.

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Scrambling is now allowed by the NFL.

New rule.

Great news, as that's proven to be a very sustainable way for a QB to have long term success in the NFL!

Biggest fear for any Bills fan should be Josh Allen being forced to become a pure pocket passer (or something close to it).  Close up shop on his career the moment that happens.  For your sake you should not be hoping for Beane to sign that guy to a 2nd contract.

[GreenCow]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Great news, as that's proven to be a very sustainable way for a QB to have long term success in the NFL!

Biggest fear for any Bills fan should be Josh Allen being forced to become a pure pocket passer (or something close to it).  Close up shop on his career the moment that happens.  For your sake you should not be hoping for Beane to sign that guy to a 2nd contract.

Wait. Who do you think i'm a fan of? lmao

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, GreenCow said:

Wait. Who do you think i'm a fan of? lmao

I don't really care, to be honest.  You're clearly a Josh Allen fan, and that's a very misguided decision.

[Claymation]

20 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Scrambling is now allowed by the NFL.

New rule.

Is it a new rule?

[playtowinthegame]

18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Great news, as that's proven to be a very sustainable way for a QB to have long term success in the NFL!

Biggest fear for any Bills fan should be Josh Allen being forced to become a pure pocket passer (or something close to it).  Close up shop on his career the moment that happens.  For your sake you should not be hoping for Beane to sign that guy to a 2nd contract.

[GreenCow]

3 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Is it a new rule?

Just a joke.

Some fans are stuck in the 60's, where scrambling QB's werent a thing.

So they discount guys like Russel Wilson, Lamar Jackson, and Josh Allen ... who gain tons of yards, and touchdowns (who wants those?) on the ground.

[playtowinthegame]

13 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Wait. Who do you think i'm a fan of? lmao

[GreenCow]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don't really care, to be honest.  You're clearly a Josh Allen fan, and that's a very misguided decision.

I'm not sure i'm a Josh Allen "fan", but I am a Josh Allen believer.

I believe he will be a stud QB for a long time. 

And I'm not alone...

 

[GreenCow]

 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

I'm not sure i'm a Josh Allen "fan", but I am a Josh Allen believer.

I believe he will be a stud QB for a long time. 

And I'm not alone...

 

 

 

He's a flashy QB.  Flashiness always gets a lot of looks.  Flash doesn't win in the NFL, especially not in the long run.  Accuracy does.  He doesn't have it.  Therefore he will never be an elite QB.  Not even close. 

Any time he comes up against a top-end defense that can contain his running ability (IE playoff defenses), he'll fail.  He folded like a cheap tent against the Texans, and their defense was merely average.

All of these cute little anecdotal type things you're throwing out there are meaningless.  Player top 100 polls?  Vegas betting odds?  Come on now.  All that tells me is Vegas will have a lot of suckers handing them free money if Allen is getting that much coin placed on him.

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Just a joke.

Some fans are stuck in the 60's, where scrambling QB's werent a thing.

So they discount guys like Russel Wilson, Lamar Jackson, and Josh Allen ... who gain tons of yards, and touchdowns (who wants those?) on the ground.

Russell Wilson is a QB who CAN run.

Lamar Jackson is a QB who CAN run.

Josh Allen is a RUNNING QB.  That's a huge difference.

Wilson is also an elite thrower, and Jackson is a very good one.  Allen is neither of those things.

QB's who can scramble are fine.  They can be elite.  Allen is not in that elite company.  He is wholly dependent on his legs for any success he'll have in this league. 

Eventually running fades, either by age, injury, or a team trying protect him by restricting his rushing attempts.  You had better be able to throw from the pocket in those instances.  Wilson is excellent at it.  Jackson is very good at it.  Allen sucks at it.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

 

 

Did you read the response tweet?  Schein, who is really not a good analyst at all, should listen to that dude.  As should you.

 

 

 

johnnyboy15

 

@johnnyboy1511

@AdamSchein josh allen will never be a top 10 qb in the league. The dude can run but he has no accuracy. You are a dope

[GreenCow]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Did you read the response tweet?  Schein, who is really not a good analyst at all, should listen to that dude.  As should you.

 

 

 

johnnyboy15

 

@johnnyboy1511

@AdamSchein josh allen will never be a top 10 qb in the league. The dude can run but he has no accuracy. You are a dope

Yeah, that's who Schein was responding to. Thats how tweets work. 

Oh Johnnyboy1511 and his 3 followers. Definitely the authority.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Oh Johnnyboy1511 and his 3 followers. Definitely the authority.

About as valuable as putting stock in "expert opinions".  Schein is wrong about 80 % of the time with his takes.

Neither you nor Bills/other Allen fans have any answer to the accuracy problem.  That's the bottom line.  He'll be fun to watch for a bit because of his running ability. Then when the bill comes due on his 2nd contract, things will get a lot less fun. 

And it's not like he's going to win a title on his rookie deal, even with that loaded roster.  The most that can be expected is to get to the Divisional round of the playoffs with his skillset.

[Claymation]

17 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Just a joke.

Some fans are stuck in the 60's, where scrambling QB's werent a thing.

So they discount guys like Russel Wilson, Lamar Jackson, and Josh Allen ... who gain tons of yards, and touchdowns (who wants those?) on the ground.

I guess you never heard of Fran Tarkenton

[GreenCow]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

He's a flashy QB.  Flashiness always gets a lot of looks.  Flash doesn't win in the NFL, especially not in the long run.  Accuracy does.  He doesn't have it.  Therefore he will never be an elite QB.  Not even close. 

Any time he comes up against a top-end defense that can contain his running ability (IE playoff defenses), he'll fail.  He folded like a cheap tent against the Texans, and their defense was merely average.

All of these cute little anecdotal type things you're throwing out there are meaningless.  Player top 100 polls?  Vegas betting odds?  Come on now.  All that tells me is Vegas will have a lot of suckers handing them free money if Allen is getting that much coin placed on him.

In all honesty, what do you think when viewing these throws? (try not to let your dislike of him cloud you)

 

[GreenCow]

4 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I guess you never heard of Fran Tarkenton

It was a joke. Try to relax.

[Jetsfan80]

43 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

In all honesty, what do you think when viewing these throws? (try not to let your dislike of him cloud you)

 

 

Any NFL QB can put together a highlight reel that makes them look good.  There's a few sitting out there of Mark Sanchez if you'd like to post that one too.

The problem is you're ignoring the many god awful throws he made, far more than the top-end guys or even the average guys.  

Accuracy is about consistency.  Not flashes.

He's also been a poor decision maker.  Also not a fixable problem. 

Inaccurate and capable of a lot of horrific turnovers is a bad way to try to get through life as a QB.  

[GreenCow]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Any NFL QB can put together a highlight reel that makes them look good.  There's a few sitting out there of Mark Sanchez if you'd like to post that one too.

The problem is you're ignoring the many god awful throws he made, far more than the top-end guys or even the average guys.  

Accuracy is about consistency.  Not flashes.

He's also been a poor decision maker.  Also not a fixable problem. 

Inaccurate and capable of a lot of horrific turnovers is a bad way to try to get through life as a QB.  

That was just 1 game.

Not a highlight reel.

It just looks like a highlight reel to us, because Allen had more great plays in 1 game than Sam had all of last season.

I was trying to give you a chance at redemption but you couldn’t follow even the most basic of instructions: “what do you think of the throws in this video”.

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, GreenCow said:

 

Well if the forever bills homer Adam Schein says so.  He also swore JP Losman was a franchise quarterback 

[GreenCow]

12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Well if the forever bills homer Adam Schein says so.  He also swore JP Losman was a franchise quarterback 

Lol how dumb. That kid was terrible from the beginning.

[Grandy]

1 hour ago, GreenCow said:

In all honesty, what do you think when viewing these throws? (try not to let your dislike of him cloud you)

 

Quite impressive, a lot of good maneuvering and making things happen when there's not much there.

But I've seen Darnold do all of that too. 

[GreenCow]

14 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Quite impressive, a lot of good maneuvering and making things happen when there's not much there.

But I've seen Darnold do all of that too. 

I love honesty! Well done.

[MindOverMatter]

7 hours ago, GreenCow said:

Right.

The actual players, and defensive players, that face these QB’s on a weekly basis.

Allen made the top 100 as voted by the peers who face him.

Darnold not only didn’t make the top 100, he also didn’t make the honorable mention.

In other words, other NFL players think he is pretty bad.

This is a fact. If Allen was in green, you would be gushing over him.

If Allen was in green I would be worried about the next time he tried some half ass lateral in a playoff game. One his team was up by two scores in.

Or i'd be worried about the next time he doesn't slide and gets his head knocked off, like the Jonathon Jones hit in week 4 last year.

Allen has talent, rocket arm and athleticism being his two best assets. Accuracy, decision making, game management, throwing under pressure, making quick reads, these are not things Allen is good at. He was fortunate to have been drafted by a much more talented Bills team, if Darnold was drafted by Buffalo i don't think they lose to Houston last year. I'm glad we have Sam and I think this is the year he proves it.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, GreenCow said:

That was just 1 game.

Not a highlight reel.

It just looks like a highlight reel to us, because Allen had more great plays in 1 game than Sam had all of last season.

I was trying to give you a chance at redemption but you couldn’t follow even the most basic of instructions: “what do you think of the throws in this video”.

 

You were looking for something to support your confirmation bias.  Bottom line is he's a sub-60 % thrower and always will be.  He'll have some good games here and there like the one you posted.  Maybe even great ones against weak teams.  But that awful accuracy will always be a problem.