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A safety that covers, creates turnovers and has a good attitude, the anti-Adams


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3 hours ago, Pac said:

Come hell or high water you and the other humorless jokers will try to convince smart people that McDougald is nearly as good as Adams.  It was funny at first when I thought you were trolling but holy crap some if you are being sincere!  

Anyone being 100% sincere on these  boards isn't doing it right. ?

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3 hours ago, Pac said:

Come hell or high water you and the other humorless jokers will try to convince smart people that McDougald is nearly as good as Adams.  It was funny at first when I thought you were trolling but holy crap some if you are being sincere!  

I've maintained that McDougald can do 80 % of what Adams does at a fraction of a cost.  That statement admits that Adams is better.  Adams is also 5 years younger, so of course that needs to be factored in as well.

But yeah, it'll be nice to get a Safety who intercepts passes and is a good teammate who acts like a professional.  I'll be OK with him missing a few tackles on RBs in that exchange.  Even if McDougald is only here 1-3 years.

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6 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

If you are taking the literally on this forum, I don't  know what to say. You ever hear of a figure of speech? 

Maybe you should use a little less hyperbole then when making your point. 

Or at the least use one of the various emoticons to signal you're not being serious.

Otherwise you run the risk of people taking your post seriously as-written since there was nothing to indicate you were exaggerating in any way.

/shrug

 

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48 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Maybe you should use a little less hyperbole then when making your point. 

Or at the least use one of the various emoticons to signal you're not being serious.

Otherwise you run the risk of people taking your post seriously as-written since there was nothing to indicate you were exaggerating in any way.

/shrug

 

Maybe you should not take everything you read on the internet literally.  Saying someone is 10× better isn't  normally followed up bu a request for stats to prove it, it is a figure of speech. 

How is this. Adams is much better and McDougald is nothing more than a throw in because maybe Caroll liked him and wanted to give him a chance to catch with another team instead of cutting him. 

I mean the guy had to have some serious game, so good rhe Seahawks paid 2 firsts and a third to trade for his replacement. 

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31 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Maybe you should not take everything you read on the internet literally.  Saying someone is 10× better isn't  normally followed up bu a request for stats to prove it, it is a figure of speech. 

How is this. Adams is much better and McDougald is nothing more than a throw in because maybe Caroll liked him and wanted to give him a chance to catch with another team instead of cutting him. 

I mean the guy had to have some serious game, so good rhe Seahawks paid 2 firsts and a third to trade for his replacement. 

Strange take.  So you're thinking they were so unhappy with Bradley McDougle's production they went out and traded for Adams to upgrade?  lol.

More likely take:  Acquiring Adams made McDougle (who is 5 years older and coming up on the last year of his deal) expendable.  Douglas liked him enough to ask for him in the deal so as not to be "stuck" with starting Davis and Maye automatically, and gave Seattle a 2022 4th rounder for the trouble.

You remaining pro-Adams guys refuse to call him a SS, since he's "so much more than that", so McDougle shouldn't have even been a factor in that sense, right?  It wasn't Adams "replacing" McDougald.  They supposedly play 2 different positions, no?

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25 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Maybe you should not take everything you read on the internet literally.  Saying someone is 10× better isn't  normally followed up bu a request for stats to prove it, it is a figure of speech.

Yeah, no one says things like that at JN and means it.  Sure.  /sarcasm

25 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

How is this. Adams is much better and McDougald is nothing more than a throw in because maybe Caroll liked him and wanted to give him a chance to catch with another team instead of cutting him.

Maybe.  Guess we'll see. 

Production data would indicate that McDougald produces an Adams equivalent in pass defense production (INT's, PD's, etc), but materially weaker in pass rush production (sacks, TFL).

It's a shame Mosely it sitting out.  I had high hopes his play would help fill the rushing gap of Adams trade.  Such is life.

25 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

I mean the guy had to have some serious game, so good rhe Seahawks paid 2 firsts and a third to trade for his replacement. 

The trade terms shows they certainly didn't value the UDFA Safety as much as the All-Pro 1st Round Safety, that is certainly true.

No question it'll be interesting to see how far the Jets Defense falls in the rankings, and how much higher the Seahawks defense rising in the rankings in 2020.

 

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46 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Strange take.  So you're thinking they were so unhappy with Bradley McDougle's production they went out and traded for Adams to upgrade?  lol.

More likely take:  Acquiring Adams made McDougle (who is 5 years older and coming up on the last year of his deal) expendable.  Douglas liked him enough to ask for him in the deal so as not to be "stuck" with starting Davis and Maye automatically, and gave Seattle a 2022 4th rounder for the trouble.

You remaining pro-Adams guys refuse to call him a SS, since he's "so much more than that", so McDougle shouldn't have even been a factor in that sense, right?  It wasn't Adams "replacing" McDougald.  They supposedly play 2 different positions, no?

First off, I'm not so pro Adams, he was a total  A-hole when he left but I'm going to call a spade a spade. Adams is an All Pro, McDougald is a JAG. 

And McDougald definitely  figured into the trade. If he was able to hold down that position, there wouldn't  be the need to make the deal. I'm happy it was made but obviously they saw a need to improve that position

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49 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yeah, no one says things like that at JN and means it.  Sure.  /sarcasm

Maybe.  Guess we'll see. 

Production data would indicate that McDougald produces an Adams equivalent in pass defense production (INT's, PD's, etc), but materially weaker in pass rush production (sacks, TFL).

It's a shame Mosely it sitting out.  I had high hopes his play would help fill the rushing gap of Adams trade.  Such is life.

The trade terms shows they certainly didn't value the UDFA Safety as much as the All-Pro 1st Round Safety, that is certainly true.

No question it'll be interesting to see how far the Jets Defense falls in the rankings, and how much higher the Seahawks defense rising in the rankings in 2020.

 

I don't  think it will fall that much. Adams production can be made up. It will just take some really good pass coverage from whoever wins the SS job. The pass rush will just come from a different position

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I think they got a much more versatile player who, if they had traded Jamal straight up for him, I wouldn't be too upset. 

The only caveat being is Seattle isn't exactly a stupid organization so perhaps he's lost a step or something. Even if that is the case, the multiple picks still make up for the difference. They can draft a new safety at #32 overall which is a much smarter position to draft a safety.

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49 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I will die laughing if THE DOUGIE gets 2 picks up in Buffalo. 
Could u imagine? 

the very first play on the below reel on 3rd.   now imagin the amount of celebrating Adams would do.

he;d get up run five yards skipping and hopping and cl;appig clapping yapping ...   smh

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQxXDMVZuRE

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Just now, hmhertz said:

Victory Green was the beat Jets safety, period.

Loved it when he through pain in the ass, strength and conditioning coach John Lott

through the showers glass door!

I loved watching Victor Green when he was here.  Even his name was legit

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I don't think the issue is how much better Adams is than McDougald.  The issue is how much of a difference that makes.  Do they do WAR for football?  I don't even know how they calculate it in baseball, but no matter how much better Adams is than McDougald, I personally do not believe that difference contributes very much to the likelihood of winning games.  Certainly nowhere near the difference of a top LT or pass rusher compared to a mid-level or even slightly above average player at those positions.

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3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't think the issue is how much better Adams is than McDougald.  The issue is how much of a difference that makes.  Do they do WAR for football?  I don't even know how they calculate it in baseball, but no matter how much better Adams is than McDougald, I personally do not believe that difference contributes very much to the likelihood of winning games.  Certainly nowhere near the difference of a top LT or pass rusher compared to a mid-level or even slightly above average player at those positions.

If they did WAR in football Adams would not be very good.  Jets are 16-32 when he plays

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54 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

First off, I'm not so pro Adams, he was a total  A-hole when he left but I'm going to call a spade a spade. Adams is an All Pro, McDougald is a JAG. 

And McDougald definitely  figured into the trade. If he was able to hold down that position, there wouldn't  be the need to make the deal. I'm happy it was made but obviously they saw a need to improve that position

It's not about McDougald failing to "get it done".  Jamal is supposed to be a generational talent, and more than a SS, and is also 24.  McDougald is 29, about to be a FA, and a "traditional" Safety.  

The point is that, statistically, Adams is not all that much better.  McDougald has quietly demonstrated he can do everything a traditional SS needs to do to help a team.  Adams' value comes from being young and, largely, marketing his way to being considered one of the game's top defensive players, even though the numbers suggest he's more like one of the game's top 35 or 40 defenders. 

I don't much care that Adams has been named All-Pro and McDougald hasn't.  If he helps us win games at a fraction of the cost, that's great, and makes him far more than just a "throw in" piece to this team.  

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8 minutes ago, Trolly McTrollface said:

There’s something missing in these bash Adams threads lately.

No more posts claiming  “he isn’t a real leader like Mosley...” I wonder why?

It's not possible that both are bad leaders? The common denominator is they were both Macc acquisitions.  Adams was over-drafted by the Jets in a class that had a lot of talent at premium and needed positions.  Mosley was overpaid for an ILB and now we're hamstrung by that contract under the new regime.

In both cases they've fallen well short of expectations in terms of their impact on team success, and we'll be glad to be done with both.  Adams currently and Mosley whenever its financially feasible.

In any case I don't consider Mosley a bad leader by opting out.  I consider him a bad leader by his admission that he's lost his fire to play. 

Steve McLendon is the leader of the defense, and I suppose has been ever since he arrived.

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8 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Right. I guess McDougald just missed the Pro Bowl and being a First Team All Pro the last two years. The guy is a legend. We should have just taken him straight up for Adams and been high fiving JD for taking Seattle to the cleaners. 

Wayne never made a Pro Bowl and was also UDFA and he played some pretty good ball. This kid a team first guy may also help the team progress.

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29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not about McDougald failing to "get it done".  Jamal is supposed to be a generational talent, and more than a SS, and is also 24.  McDougald is 29, about to be a FA, and a "traditional" Safety.  

The point is that, statistically, Adams is not all that much better.  McDougald has quietly demonstrated he can do everything a traditional SS needs to do to help a team.  Adams' value comes from being young and, largely, marketing his way to being considered one of the game's top defensive players, even though the numbers suggest he's more like one of the game's top 35 or 40 defenders. 

I don't much care that Adams has been named All-Pro and McDougald hasn't.  If he helps us win games at a fraction of the cost, that's great, and makes him far more than just a "throw in" piece to this team.  

I really don't  know how you arrived at this. Adams rates out as one of the games top defensive players. There really isn't  a weak part of his game. People make a big deal about him not getting a lot of picks but he rated out with some rediculous  QBR against that showed he can cover. 

I think you fall into the category of Adams is a big mouth so he must suck fans. McDougald is going to be ok at SS for us but with Mosley opting out, the loss of Adams will be more glaring and he will probably get unfairly judged by the lack of splashy defensive plays we make.  i mean you are saying he is as good as Adams yet with Davis, depend I ng how well he plays, there isn't  even a guarantee he will start the whole season

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17 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Wayne never made a Pro Bowl and was also UDFA and he played some pretty good ball. This kid a team first guy may also help the team progress.

This is the thing I don't  get with the haters. When Adams was on the Jets, he was a team first guy. I have seen him cheer  on the team from the sidelines  multiple times. 

I'll say it again, Adams is a A-hole but he is a top defensive  player. McDougald  is a nice team guy but he is a JAG.

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1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

I think they got a much more versatile player who, if they had traded Jamal straight up for him, I wouldn't be too upset. 

The only caveat being is Seattle isn't exactly a stupid organization so perhaps he's lost a step or something. Even if that is the case, the multiple picks still make up for the difference. They can draft a new safety at #32 overall which is a much smarter position to draft a safety.

Seattle isn't the same organization since Paul Allen died.  Neither are the Trail Blazers I hate to say.  I don't think it's as acute with them because its a smaller market and they can do less.  But nobody is there to tell Schneider what he can and can't do anymore.  Allen was one of the most gifted owners in history when it came to understanding sports in general.  It's very easy he might not have sold off on the Adams trade.  The initial three or four drafts that Schneider and Carroll did for the Hawks was amazing.  But going forward, it has to be noted that Paul Allen is gone.  He was a genius in so many ways.  And not having with that organization is huge.  The way he could analyze things few people could.

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

I really don't  know how you arrived at this. Adams rates out as one of the games top defensive players. There really isn't  a weak part of his game. People make a big deal about him not getting a lot of picks but he rated out with some rediculous  QBR against that showed he can cover. 

I think you fall into the category of Adams is a big mouth so he must suck fans. McDougald is going to be ok at SS for us but with Mosley opting out, the loss of Adams will be more glaring and he will probably get unfairly judged by the lack of splashy defensive plays we make.  i mean you are saying he is as good as Adams yet with Davis, depend I ng how well he plays, there isn't  even a guarantee he will start the whole season

 

By who, PFF?  Again, he has a very solid blend of stats but nothing that 25+ other guys in the league have proven capable of.

I never said Adams sucks.  Just that the people who call him a generational talent or super impactful are out of their minds.  A Safety who doesn't generate turnovers just isn't that valuable. 

In previous threads I compared him to other players who do similar things he does and looked at their salaries.  Adams came out to about a $13M per year player.  Solid, not elite.

LB Joe Schobert, for instance, last season put up a lot more solo tackles (89), INTs (4), and more Pass Deflections (9) than Adams did and equaled him in FFs (2), only falling short of Adams in sacks (2.0).  He then signed a FA contract in the offseason.  Salary:  $10.8M per season.

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5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I've maintained that McDougald can do 80 % of what Adams does at a fraction of a cost.  That statement admits that Adams is better.  Adams is also 5 years younger, so of course that needs to be factored in as well.

But yeah, it'll be nice to get a Safety who intercepts passes and is a good teammate who acts like a professional.  I'll be OK with him missing a few tackles on RBs in that exchange.  Even if McDougald is only here 1-3 years.

McDougald will put up 60 tackles with three picks and 10 PDs for an 8-8 Jets squad and delusional Adams revisionists will still be like “we missed the playoffs because of no Jamal!” Meanwhile, Russel Wilson will be fighting for his life to go TD for TD against the Niners, with George Kittle scoring four barely-contested TDs, to win the NFC West and those same guys will be like “See, Jamal is a winner.”

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

This is the thing I don't  get with the haters. When Adams was on the Jets, he was a team first guy. I have seen him cheer  on the team from the sidelines  multiple times. 

He also said "we need more dawgs" and tweeted embarrassing things about his own team during the Ravens game that he didn't play in.  His teammates also had very little positive things to say about him on his way out the door.

He's not a leader.

And for someone who just balked at me calling you a "Pro-Jamal guy" you really aren't doing any favors calling people like me "haters". 

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3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

McDougald will put up 60 tackles with three picks and 10 PDs for an 8-8 Jets squad and delusional Adams revisionists will still be like “we missed the playoffs because of no Jamal!” Meanwhile, Russel Wilson will be fighting for his life to go TD for TD against the Niners, with George Kittle scoring four barely-contested TDs, to win the NFC West and those same guys will be like “See, Jamal is a winner.”

Exactly what will happen.  Jamal Adams will be the 9th or 10th most important player on a Wild Card team.  So validating!

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11 hours ago, Pac said:

Its like people forgot McDougald had to be added because 2 firsts and a 3rd weren't enough for Adam's.

I mean yeah let's hope McDougald is serviceable but comparing him to Jamal is absurd.

Remember that time Jamal had 2 interceptions in 3 years, that was great.

McDougald had 2 in 1 game.

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46 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

By who, PFF?  Again, he has a very solid blend of stats but nothing that 25+ other guys in the league have proven capable of.

I never said Adams sucks.  Just that the people who call him a generational talent or super impactful are out of their minds.  A Safety who doesn't generate turnovers just isn't that valuable. 

In previous threads I compared him to other players who do similar things he does and looked at their salaries.  Adams came out to about a $13M per year player.  Solid, not elite.

LB Joe Schobert, for instance, last season put up a lot more solo tackles (89), INTs (4), and more Pass Deflections (9) than Adams did and equaled him in FFs (2), only falling short of Adams in sacks (2.0).  He then signed a FA contract in the offseason.  Salary:  $10.8M per season.

You know you are putting words in my moth right? Have I ever called him a generational  player? To me a generational  player are guys like Lawrence Taylor or Reggie White. Adams I do believe makes an impact. Suoer impact full is a subjective term but you are going to see a difference when McDougald plays vs Adams. 

Honestly, I can't  believe  I am having this conversation. He has been to two Pro Bowls and was a first team All Pro. This isn't  baseball or basketball  where the All Star games are a popularity contest, pla t ers and coaches have 2/3 of the votes. 

As far as him being a top defensive player, I'm pretty sure the number say he is at his position. I don't  have e to look it up and what is wrong with PFF ratings? I think they are pretty spot on. 

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