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Sam Darnold looking good in camp

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On 8/7/2020 at 4:07 PM, GangGreened said:

Name me the starting QBs in the NFL that are in a worse situation than Darnold is?

This is ALWAYS the excuse with crappy quarterbacks.

Always.

And almost never in NFL history do then end up being good once they get on a good team.

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9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Flat out wrong.

Alex Smith

Drew Brees

Eli Manning

Matthew Stafford

I could name more but it took less than 3 minutes to figure out you're a Bills fan posing as a Jets fan by searching through your posts so I doubt you care.  What is it with you and your fanbase's weird obsession with this place?  Worry about Josh Allen.

Do you not know what the word “almost” means?

Im saying it happens, but it’s rare.

There are thousands upon thousands of QB’s in NFL history and the same excuse has been made for all of them and only a rare group of them actually do anything.

Get a dictionary next time.

PS, Matt Stafford? Alex Smith? Bahahahaha

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6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Matt Stafford and Alex Smith sucked to start their careers you smooth brain.  

Again.  F*ck off to The Stadium Wall and go waste bandwidth there.

The stadium wall??

Matt Stafford and Alex Smith never became good.

Stafford is panned by every Lion fan and reporter alive. Heck, he’s only thrown for 30 TD’s twice in his 12 year career. Once in the past 8 years.

And Alex Smith couldn’t even win a playoff game with an all-star offensive cast of Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce, Kareem Hunt and a stacked O-line.

Thanks for the laugh though. Hahahah. I can’t believe you listed those two.

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

Your guy had a good coach and still cant throw 5 passes in a row where he wants them to go.

Gase is not a good coach.

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5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Matthew Stafford isn't good?  

A healthy Alex Smith would have had your team winning the division and moving beyond wildcard weekend.

LMFAO, no wonder you guys are impressed by Josh Allen.  Not too much going on up there in the brains in Buffalo.

No!

lol.

I can’t imagine a world where anyone would think either are good QB’s.

Alex Smith had an all-star cast in KC and struggled to put up 20 TD’s every year.

Did you ever wonder why KC drafted a QB in the 1st round?

Didnt you ever wonder why a QB was traded for only a 3rd round pick? Isn’t that what the Browns were about to give up for AJ McCarron?

And Matt Stafford. Lmao. I can’t even.

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So youre really going to play this game where you make believe youre a Jet fan?

 

I realize it’s difficult for homers to think critically, but some fans can respect players in the same division.

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4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Matthew Stafford hasn't posted a QB Rating below an 89.9 in 5 years you goober.

Alex Smith, as limited as he is, still drags the Bills to a division title and sure as sh*t doesn't pull this in the 4th Quarter of a playoff game:

90A6DCA1-C0D9-4B8B-A845-4C79839A88D5.gif.012be0a4cf164dd52012097e5c84a3b8.gif

I bet you didn’t know that Josh Allen had more TD’s last year than Alex Smith has ever had in a single season in his entire 10+ year career.

I also bet you didn’t know that Josh Allen’s TD output last year (29) matches or beats all but 1 of Stafford’s last 8 seasons.

lmao did you just use QB rating as a measure of success? Bahahahhahahah

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Just now, Mogglez said:

Would you rather me use Stafford's seasons of throwing for 30+ TDs, 13 INTs or lower, and 4000+ yards, or are those numbers too big for you?

Well considering he has only had 2 of those in his entire 10+ year career, sure! Use it.

Stafford has more than 29 TD’s only 1 time in his last 8 seasons.

In fact, Allen’s TD output last season (29), matches or beats 7 of Stafford’s last 8 seasons.

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6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Again, I'm not interested in RB stats.  Josh Allen is supposed to pass the ball.  He can't even throw for 300 yards in a game over the span of 2 years in the NFL.  That is, once again, pathetic.

So are you fully off of trying to pretend that Alex Smith and Stafford are good QB’s and onto trying to turn this into a Josh Allen thing? Lol

Its so blatant, it’s sad.

You May want to let go of the past and get into the scrambling QB game. It’s a thing now, and it’s not going away.

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Just an overall FYI for fans, since Mogglez brought it up...

300 yard passing games mean literally nothing.

In fact, if your QB throws for 300 yards, it most likely means you lost the game.

“...last season there were 132 300-yard passing games in the NFL. The combined record of those 300-yard passers was sub-.500 – 64-66-2. And if you subtracted NFL MVP Patrick Mahomes’ 8-2 mark, th hi ose 300-yard passers won a paltry 46.7 percent of their games.”

More...

Jared Goff passed for 517 yards last week against the Buccaneers. His Rams lost. Aaron Rodgers passed for 422 yards against the Eagles. His Packers also lost. So did the Bengals when Andy Dalton threw for 418 yards on opening day and the Seahawks when Russell Wilson threw for 406 yards against the Saints in Week 3. Former NFL MVP Matt Ryan has passed for 300 yards in all four games this season but his Atlanta Falcons are 1-3 to show for his arm.”

And since he likes Alex Smith, here is what Alex has to say about 300 yard games...

If you're losing games in the second half, guess what? You're like the Carolina Panthers and you're going no-huddle the entire second half and, yeah, Cam Newton threw for a lot of 300-yard games, that's great," Smith said. "You're not winning, though."

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2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Your basis around bashing Sam is to feel better about Allen so it was always about Allen.

Cam Newton being an absolute shell of himself proves that the RUNNING QB game, which Allen plays, not a scrambling QB like Russ or Mahomes, is not viable.  Especially when you have massive accuracy issues 😉.

Lol what? I never brought Allen up in this thread until you did.

Are you drunk?

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1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

LMAO, you guys have deluded yourself into believing that throwing for 300 yards is "ackshully bad".

I can't.

You guys are just so adorable.  The best part is, Allen can't throw for 300 yards even when he's losing.

And since you like Alex Smith, here is what Alex has to say about 300 yard games...

If you're losing games in the second half, guess what? You're like the Carolina Panthers and you're going no-huddle the entire second half and, yeah, Cam Newton threw for a lot of 300-yard games, that's great," Smith said. "You're not winning, though."

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2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

That's nice.  He can still throw for 300 yards, unlike Allen.

Ok?

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3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Again, your basis for even being here is to troll the fanbase about Sam because your fanbase has the insecurities of a 15 year old girl when it comes to Allen and your Bills.  Try to keep up.

Oh you still think I’m not a Jets fan of 32 years.

Gotcha.

🤦🏻‍♂️

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21 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No shlt, often 300 yard passing games are because teams losing need offense and go to the air

But it doesnt mean that 300 yard passing games are bad or mean you will lose, just thats the mindless use of stats to attempt to make an argument.  Having a scatter arm QB who cant string enough passes together in 2 years to come up with a 300 yard game in this NFL is the issue

Its not like your team has been running off all these Alex Smith like winning seasons either.  Whats the point of talking about wins and losses when you only made the playoffs once and against the Texans you couldn't throw for not 3 but not 200 yards and came up 3 points short.  Maybe if scatter arm could complete a few more passes your team isnt one and done.  Id think you and the rest of the excuse makers to the North would  have like to have seen a 300 yard game that week

No one said they’re necessarily bad.

Just that they provide no true data point for how a QB played.

It typically just means that the team is losing.

Mogglez tried to use a lack of 300 yard games to mean that a QB isn’t playing well.

Which is just stupid, as statistics show that 300 yard games correlate to losing. That’s not my opinion, it’s actual statistics.

I don’t know what you’re talking about the playoffs, Jets haven’t made it in a while. Sam has issues but I wouldn’t call him a scatter arm.

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38 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Which has what exactly to do with you making believe that youre a Bills fan and having to be called out for it?

 

I’ve never pretended to be a Bills fan.

I just don’t pretend that players in the division are bad like homers do.

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2 minutes ago, slats said:

Josh Allen averages less than 200 yards a game, though. How do numbers like that generally effect a win-loss record? 

I’m not sure. I don’t have the stats on that. I know he had a winning record last year though. 

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5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Sorry in two seasons, todays NFL, not being able to put together enough passes to top 300 yards is bad

No one would call Sam a scatter arm, thats reserved for QBs who have a hard time doing what QBs are supposed to do, pass the ball as opposed to just running.  QBs like your guy in Buffalo 

Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree about 300 yard games.

I thought it was common knowledge by now that stats prove them useless but maybe it takes other people more time to hit the learning curve.

Statistics show that 300 yard games correlate to losing. That’s not my opinion, it’s actual statistics. Entire articles have been written about it.

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22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

What part of Allen is a sub 200 yard QB when it counts makes me a homer?

 

The fact that you want to bash other fans who think divisional players are good and label them.

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57 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

That’s all that matters for at least a few years. Then you have to make that leap to playoff success. The playoffs and regular season are two very different animals. Lamar Jackson learned that lesson this year. 

Very true.

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54 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Im bashing you because youre a troll posing as a Jets fan

You can keep coming back all you want, posing as a Jets fan who for some reason, thinking youre the bestest fan for playing this odd game

 

Ok. Believe what you’d like.

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9 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Link?

You may be right, but I’d want to see it. Even though, it may be useful information when checking out QBs effectiveness historically as passing was generally the desperate option as opposed to running. Over the last 20+ years though, that’s not been the case. More teams in 2019 passed to set up the run, which means that even if your above statement was true for the vast majority of the history of the NFL, it’s shifting and it might not be true if only looking at the last decade.

Yes sir.

It was the same in 2019 too.

“...last season there were 132 300-yard passing games in the NFL. The combined record of those 300-yard passers was sub-.500 – 64-66-2. And if you subtracted NFL MVP Patrick Mahomes’ 8-2 mark, those 300-yard passers won a paltry 46.7 percent of their games.” link

This has actually been going on for a while. If a QB throws for over 300 yards, more often than not it means the team lost the game.

For example, Matt Ryan went 1-5 in his first 6 starts last year while throwing for 300+ in every one of them.

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Another telling stat.

15 of the last 20 Super Bowl winning QB’s threw less than 300 yards.

The losing QB did throw over 300 often.

 

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4 minutes ago, Grandy said:

So in this thread I've seen claims that throwing for 300 yards is a bad thing, and Matt Stafford and Alex Smith aren't good QB's (LOL).

This is quite entertaining to say the least. 

It just shows whether you’re a smart fan or not.

Those who read analytics and know statistics, know that 300 yard games often result in the QB losing.

Thats not opinion, that’s fact.

Its actual statistics.

Message board posters sometimes just don’t want to say “ok, I was wrong”. And I understand that. 

As far as Alex Smith goes, it just shows the sad state of the franchise, that fans think he is a good QB.

Everyone thinks Allen sucks yet Allen had more TD’s last year than Alex Smith had EVER in his entire career. Puts it into perspective. Also, he was traded for a 3rd round pick, which shows his value around the league. McCarron was being dealt for a 2nd rounder if I remember right.

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13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Even without the changes, you dont make the mindless claim that 300 yard games arent game winners.

 

Well, they’re literally not. And it’s the opposite of mindless.

It uses actual thought and stats. Instead of just saying “durrr - more yards must be good - durr”. Now THAT is mindless.

Just a year ago (not 1970-2009), QB’s that threw for over 300 yards lost over 50% of those games.

Thats the definition of not being a winner lol.

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10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats one year.

If you dont see a change from the way the game is played, the way the owners and fans want it played and what wins today vs the 70's youre either clueless, trolling or too young to know better

You're right that the game is changing.

There are much more 300+ yard passers today than ever before.

But those 300 yard passers are losing.

You seem to think that just because more passing is happening, that means those QB’s are winning.

But they’re not.

In the playoffs, QB’s who threw for over 300 yards went 2-6 and none made the Super Bowl.

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2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

If you want to use analytics to defend Allen you are going to have an incredibly bad time.

That’s true.

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13 minutes ago, TheMo said:

Don't go tossing around insults like you are God's gift to data analytics. You are completely confusing correlation with causation. You then are applying this to a player you clearly think is going to be great to make a flawed point. My background is as a physician and regularly perform data analytics as part of the job. If you like Josh Allen that's fine, but don't jump to flawed conclusions from data and then accuse long time posters on here of being stupid for not following you on your misguided statistical journey. 

I find some humor in a post advocating for correlation, while not realizing the correlation that caused the post.

I never insulted him or anyone else. That’s not my style.

He said it was mindless to say 300 yard games result in losses.

I responded, no, it’s mindless to simply regurgitate the same old “more yards mean better play” thought.

Context matters. No one was being insulted. Please pay better attention.

As far as your data allegations go, it’s impossible to respond to as you provided no information on where you believe I went wrong. Likely because you have nothing to point to.

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29 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Yeah the guy with a 94-66 Career record with multiple pro bowls, who's lead the league in QB rating and had the lowest int% twice is not good. The guy went 8 straight seasons with 8 picks or less. having double the amount of wins to losses in that span. 

7D chess right here.

Tyrod Taylor went 3 straight seasons with least amount of INT’s.

Thats fairy close to irrelevant to me.

There is a reason why the Chiefs drafted a QB in the 1st round.

There is a reason why the Chiefs could only garner a 3rd round pick in exchange for Smith.

There is a reason why Alex Smith never made it past a playoff game as a starter.

There is a reason why Chiefs fans on ChiefsPlanet were begging to get rid of him.

Its sad what decades of crappy QB play can do to the minds of fans. They think anyone is good.

How about Joe Flacco - Do you think Flacco is good?

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

I said theyre winning more of those 300 yard games than before.  That prolific passing games are part of the norm.  I dont care what numbers you pull out of the air or where you get them but from 1966 until the mid 80s the passing record was 4007 yards.  Then it went up from the Greises of the world passing for 2K per to now 4K is the norm and 5K is part of an offense led by Jameis.  Dont tell me teams that win are winning with fewer wins.  If a 14 win Pats team wins with a 4800 yard passers, theyre averaging 300 passing yards a game.  

So dont hand out that idea that its only in losses.  Or what that applied in the running era is the same as what applies in the game as its played today

Ok

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Just now, TheMo said:

I said you did that incorrectly. You're reading comprehension is incorrect. You are using correlation and arguing AS IF it's causation. That's what you did wrong. Josh Allen had a mildly better year than Sam Darnold. If you want to say Allen is an MVP candidate then you must think Darnold had similar potential this year.
 

Can you quote the exact post where I incorrectly used correlation?

Also, I never said Allen is an MVP candidate. The MVP bettors did.

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29 minutes ago, TheMo said:

A 300 yard game doesn't result in the QB losing. You infer causality in that statement. You are wrong. 

Actually, I didn’t infer anything.

I said QB’s that throw for 300 yards often end up losing the game.

That is an absolute fact.

What to try again with a different post?

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33 minutes ago, TheMo said:

Ok so do you think they are wrong or right about the MVP potential?

I think MVP is too far.

But I think it shows that people (outside of Jet-homer land) are high on him.

Not to mention, him making the top 100 list. Which means his peers are high on him too.

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7 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Blake Bortles threw for 4,000 yards and made the top 100 in 2015. That list is absolutely meaningless.  The utter atrocity that it was this year only reinforces that.

It’s just 1 data point.

There are many other data points that point to people (outside of Jets homer land) believing in him as well.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's nice.  Lots of people believing in Allen will surely make him an accurate passer and good decision maker.  

Maybe not.

But it shows that many people believe he will.

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