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Sam Darnold looking good in camp

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1 hour ago, Grandy said:

I don't think people are hyping Allen up because he's going to be some QB wiz like Rodgers/Mahomes, I expect that it's more so due to the fact that he has tremendous athletic ability while having an absolute cannon. With intangibles like his it's no wonder why there's hype. Though he's far from a polished passer and I'm not certain of him ever becoming that, he's still exciting. 

However I think Kyler Murray is just a better version of that strong-armed scrambler prototype, and he's my dark horse MVP pick. 

Kyle Murray is miles better than Allen.  It's really not a fair comparison.  Murray is a deadly accurate midget with a lightning fast release who while very quick goes down on arm contact.  He's basically Baker Mayfield with a brain and amazing lateral quickness.  Josh Allen wouldn't get off the bench if the Bills had Murray.  

Darnold was better than both Allen and Mayfield last year in spite of the sh*t show he is dealing with.  Murray is in a different league than all 3 of them until one of them actually steps up their game.

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48 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

I like Murray too. Here are the stats.

Allen: 3,599 total yards. 29 Total TD’s. 9 INT’s. 10-6 record.

Murray: 4,266 total yards. 24 Total TD’s. 12 INT’s. 5-10-1 record.

Darnold: 3,086 total yards. 21 Total TD’s. 13 INT’s. 7-6 record.

As an actual QB Murray 1, Darnold 2 Allen 3. 

Allen played on a team with a defense that was arguably SB caliber last year.  They asked him to do very little with the football. In spite of that his completion percentage and YPA were pathetic.  Mark Sanchez with a similar built team as Buffalo took the Jets to two AFC finals and actually won playoff games.  Sanchez if you recall busted out of the NFL.

 Murray and Darnold played on two putrid teams with zero O lines and they were asked to carry their teams.  Darnold's record last year was 7 and 6 in games he actually played.  Buffalo would have gone to the AFC finals and had a shot with either Darnold or Murray last year.  Allen on either the Jets or the Cardinals last year would have been awful.  He would have been asked to carry the teams and would have looked like he did in the 2nd half against Houston in the playoffs, lost and confused.

His a big running back with a big arm and no real talent as a passer.  He has shown no ability as an actual passer.  Not to say he won't develop as a passer but be honest.  As a starting QB his passing talent stinks.  Arm talent is not the same thing.

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10 hours ago, GreekJet said:

I was actually more impressed with both Allen and Darnold than I was with Murray. 
 

How many Arizona Cardinals games did folks really watch on TV? I actually watched a bunch and there were a ton of empty stats Murray put up. 

I live in AZ and watched all of them.  AZ went from 32nd in the league in scoring to 16th.  The guy is a baller.  I'm not a fan of a midget QB who has to continually move to create a throwing lane but by any standards, he had a terrific rookie year.  If he was on the Bills they would have had a legit shot at the SB.  He can actually hit WR in stride consistently.  He's deadly accurate and he can't stand lossing.  

The reality is Baker and Rosen are already busts.  Allen as a passer has been putrid.  Sam was in a different system in year 2 and was sick.  The Jets had a putrid surrounding cast on O last year and he was still better than both Mayfield and Allen.  Nobody predicted Jackson would be the best of the group.  Right now it's not close.  The only one of the remaining 4 that has even shown NFL potential is Sam.  

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2 hours ago, GreenCow said:

The difference between Allen and Sam’s completion % was 10 passes.

If Allen checked down 10 more times, he would have had the same completion % as Sam.

Ten. 

The “Allen as a passer was putrid” take is lazy and showcases people who didn’t watch him play.

There is a reason he is getting MVP love and was voted top 100. And it’s not because MVP betters and his peers think he is a putrid passer.

TheJets were 31st in rushing attempts and 32 in rushing yards per attempt.  The Jets didn't have an OL, a legit No. 2 NFL WR.  Beasley and Brown are actually good NFL WR.  Singletary was actually a very good back both running and receiving.  Bell behind our OL couldn't get out of his own way after a season sitting. 

Sam healthy on the Bills and they win the division.  Allen was asked to do almost noting for the Bills in the passing game.  Sam was asked to carry the Jets.  In spite of that and the lack of supporting cast he was miles better than Allen throwing the football.  

10 passes.  You make the argument about how unimportant 300 yards are and then throw an incredible stupid stat like that.  Allen is a physical freak.  He's not remotely a good NFL QB.  Brown was actually healthy last year.  I saw Brown live as a rookie when he was healthy.  He's a top WR when healthy.  We had nothing remotely as good.  

Granted there are people on this board who think Robbie Anderson is as good or better than John Brown.  Brown has sickle cell and was devastated for several years.  He was on track as a rookie and 2nd year player to be great.  He's a highly polished route runner with elite break away speed. He was healthy last year.  You're adding Diggs this year.  If Allen consistently misses them when they are running wide open down field the Bills fans are going to be calling for his head. 

You watch film of Sam and Allen and Allen is miles behind him right now. 

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35 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

I wasn't trying to pick out his best plays. Just plays where he makes throws that other QB's simply can't.

He can fit a ball into windows that I think only he and Mahomes can.

 

Fitting balls into windows breaks glass.  The ability to make throws other guys can't only matters if you're accurate.  Joe Montana had a below average NFL arm.  Tom Brady has an average NFL arm.  They didn't just fit balls into tight windows.  They actually threw their WR open and created something called YAC.   

Allen is one of the few QB's who throw less INT's because of his accuracy.  CB actually cover WR and his throws are so far off the mark so often that the opportunity for INT's actually drop.  If you're covering the barn and the guy can't hit the side of the barn your opportunity to get INT's actually goes down.  

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19 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

I agree Allen is more inaccurate, but perhaps not as wildly as you do.

Put it this way - 10 passes is the difference between Allen and Sam’s completion %.

If Allen checked down 10 more times all season, he would have the same completion % as Sam.

But we’ll see what happens. Season is only a month away!

Personally, I’m hoping that Allen vs Sam becomes the next big quarterback battle

If he checked down 10 more times what makes you think he completes more than 5 of his check downs?  

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12 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Lets keep it simple...

"The most predictive measure of future success, according to PFF, is accuracy from a clean pocket. In that regard, Darnold is head and shoulders better than most—Darnold's 72.2% completion percentage when kept clean ranked 11th among 30 NFL QBs with at least 300 dropbacks while Allen posted the third-worst percentage at 65.8%"  ........ reported on the WFAN....Jun 3, 2020"

Completion percentage doesn't encapsulate accuracy fully.  All completions are not equal.  Ball placement on completed passes can actually be placed in different areas.  As an example Montana was a genius on ball placement to run his WR free for extra yardage.  Nuance and subtlety often separate the genius from the very good.  NFL QB's who have similar completion percentages can still be vastly better or worse than the guys putting up very similar stats.

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9 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

That doesn’t make much sense to me, because as already pointed out, Allen and Darnold‘a completion percentages are separated by only ten passes.

10.

If Alan was as wildly accurate as you claim, then the difference would not only be 10 passes. You also said that you have not watched much of Allen, so I’m confused how you have drawn your conclusion.

That's because you ignore the fact that the NFL is a team game.  In the context of the actual supporting cast Josh Allen is trash as a passer and an anchor creating drag on a very good team.  Sam carried a bad team on his back.  If Allen had failed to complete 10 more passes his completion percentage would have gone down.  

Allen on a better team was worse than Sam.  Allen is far below average as a passer as compared to good starting NFL QB's.  He's trash with a rocket arm.

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10 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

What does that have to do with the fact that only 10 passes separate Allen and Darnold’s completion percentage?

I hear you when you say that you think Allen is trash. I’m well aware of that. But you seem to say that he is very inaccurate, but you don’t really have much of any response to the fact that there’s only 10 passes that separate the two.

I responded you apparently missed it.  Fact is Allen was 32nd in the league in completion percentage.  Facts he was trash in College playing for a second rate program and is trash in the pro's.  

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16 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

What did I do that makes you feel that way?

JohnnyD simply went to the exact tenth of a percent, whereas I went to the whole number.

His is technically more accurate but I find it rather trivial. The difference is 1/4th of a pass per game.

Slats simply did the math wrong overall. (Edit: wrong is a harsh word. Slats did the math differently than I ever intended it)

In short, the difference between Allen and Sam’s completion % is 10 completions (if you go to the whole number) and 14 completions (if you go to the tenth of a percent).

Either way, 14 completions (over an entire season) is hardly enough to claim that he is trash while labeling Sam significantly better. It’s just silly.

Im sorry that you think I’m a troll. I’m really not. I don’t even love Allen that much, I just found myself defending him when everyone is trashing him SO hard.

 

What if Darnold got 10 more completions and Allen got 10 less?  What if we ignored what our eyes actually told us and pretended the stats weren't what they were under completely different conditions?  

You've hammered an irrelevant stat that doesn't exist to death while telling us 300 yards is irrelevant.  Allen being an accurate QB doesn't pass the eye, touch, smell or taste test. 

All you have to do is watch Darnold play and Allen play NFL football.  Let your mind wrap around the different conditions the two of them play under because of personal and your 10 passes stat that you made up fails the smell test.  Which answers the question if someone farts in a post does it smell?  Yes it does.  

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1 hour ago, Kolchak said:

I think this is WayneChrebet80 from last year.  Just switched his shtick from Daniel Jones to Josh Allen . 

If Jones can develop ball security he is miles better as a passer than Josh Allen.  

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8 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Both have strongest arm in the league during their career. Both complete below 60% of their passes. Josh Allen is entering his 3rd year in the NFL has a 56.3% career completion percentage. Jeff George had a career completion percentage of 57.9%....entering his 3rd season in the NFL Jeff George's career completion percentage was 57.8%. George at the same point in their careers is only 1.5% better than Josh. However you slice it they're both very similar in two categories: arm strength + career completion percentage.

Next!

Here's where they are different.  Jeff George at the time was the top prospect on every NFL draft board.  His passing talent was never in question.  He had a $.10 head.  George in his final year was ranked 2nd in the Big 10 and 7th in the NCAA in completion percentage.  Allen was 8th is the Mountain West Conference in pass completion percentage in his last year.  

Allen with his freakish physical traits was never the top QB prospect on anyones board.  His lack of accuracy followed him on draft day and through his first 2 years.

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