Sam Darnold looking good in camp

[Lupz27]

Is there a Josh Allen thread so I can go get my Sam Darnold information on looking good.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Is there a Josh Allen thread so I can go get my Sam Darnold information on looking good.

[MindOverMatter]

11 hours ago, GreenCow said:

Yes.

I think Allen is the better QB.

I realize why people hate on Allen, the accuracy thing is there and he’s a divisional foe.

But watch him play and the guy is a baller.

He can make throws that Darnold simply physically cant, guys will run through a brick wall for him, and I think his upside is much higher.

I think Darnolds ceiling is Pennington, which really is somewhat of a compliment because I liked Pennington.

Allens upside is a Hall of Famer. At the same time, he also has a floor of a guy whose out of the league in 5 years. But my gut feeling is that he’s a stud.

In short, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Allen is getting MVP love and was ranked in the top 100 while Darnold is getting zero mvp love and was not only not in the top 100 but didn’t even make the honorable mentions.

You are falling in love with all of what Allens ceiling offers, strongest arm in the league, athletic, and big. But what good is any of that when he often misses the 10 yard out route and has trouble with putting touch on his throws consistently.

For someone with as strong of an arm as Allen, he does not hit deep often enough. Add onto the fact that he already has taken some nasty hits, the Patriots one comes to mind, and i'll pass on Allen and happily build this roster around Darnold. Josh Allen is not the guy, most of us see it here it will take some time but you'll see it too.

[Biggs]

10 hours ago, GreekJet said:

I was actually more impressed with both Allen and Darnold than I was with Murray. 
 

How many Arizona Cardinals games did folks really watch on TV? I actually watched a bunch and there were a ton of empty stats Murray put up. 

I live in AZ and watched all of them.  AZ went from 32nd in the league in scoring to 16th.  The guy is a baller.  I'm not a fan of a midget QB who has to continually move to create a throwing lane but by any standards, he had a terrific rookie year.  If he was on the Bills they would have had a legit shot at the SB.  He can actually hit WR in stride consistently.  He's deadly accurate and he can't stand lossing.  

The reality is Baker and Rosen are already busts.  Allen as a passer has been putrid.  Sam was in a different system in year 2 and was sick.  The Jets had a putrid surrounding cast on O last year and he was still better than both Mayfield and Allen.  Nobody predicted Jackson would be the best of the group.  Right now it's not close.  The only one of the remaining 4 that has even shown NFL potential is Sam.  

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said:

You are falling in love with all of what Allens ceiling offers, strongest arm in the league, athletic, and big. But what good is any of that when he often misses the 10 yard out route and has trouble with putting touch on his throws consistently.

For someone with as strong of an arm as Allen, he does not hit deep often enough. Add onto the fact that he already has taken some nasty hits, the Patriots one comes to mind, and i'll pass on Allen and happily build this roster around Darnold. Josh Allen is not the guy, most of us see it here it will take some time but you'll see it too.

Look at what Cam is now.  He’s a backup QB on the patriots and not for Brady.  He hasn’t been in the league that long just 9 years yet he’s already done.  Allen may have a similar fate in a few years

[Lupz27]

So how about that Sam Darnold?  I hear he is looking good in camp!

[slats]

16 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

That’s not how logic works.

But again, no one said throwing for 300 is necessarily bad.

Its simply that when a QB has to throw for 300, the team is likely losing and that’s why they’re throwing so much.

Therefore, 300 yards isn’t some goal that QB’s need to aspire to.

You're saying, "likely," as if 52.3% is some huge majority of the time, when it's actually just about half the time. Probably a lot of those games had two QBs throwing for over 300 yards, with one of them doing it better. In games like that, Josh Allen can't even compete. 

I like Allen better than a lot of people here, but he has a long ways to go as a passer, still. The Bills are taking that big arm of his and trying to turn him into a game manager for a reason: he's inaccurate. He has a low YPA because he has a low comp%. His comp% isn't hurt terribly by a lack of checkdowns because Allen is still inaccurate at 10 yards away. He'll miss any receiver, anywhere. 

If he was my QB, I'd be excited about him, too. But as a division rival, I'm not impressed or concerned. Not until he improves as a passer. 

[GreenCow]

35 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its like a moving target the debate keeps changing with you.

And its gotten extremely boring at this point.

 

 

Nothing is changing. You just are having a difficult time following the conversation.

The data point conversation was 100% ALWAYS about people who were high on Allen.

It’s right there in black and white if you want to go back a page or two and re-read it.

You thought it was data points in Allen’s strengths ... for some reason. Even though that was literally never mentioned. Ever.

So you misread a post, then got confused when it wasn’t what you thought it was, then claimed I was spinning.

But the only one who was confused was you.

[JustInFudge]

16 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

So how about that Sam Darnold?  I hear he is looking good in camp!

I like Sam Darnold and I'm excited to hear he's looking good in training camp.  Apparently he's like the most serious guy in the league right now and that's exciting. I like that all the WR's came to his Cali workouts too.  Necessary in a shortened offseason. 

If the OL can give him time and Bell/Gore/Perrine can take some pressure off him and actually gain positive yardage, look out!!!  Sam is going to have a coming out party.

[GreenCow]

16 minutes ago, slats said:

You're saying, "likely," as if 52.3% is some huge majority of the time, when it's actually just about half the time. Probably a lot of those games had two QBs throwing for over 300 yards, with one of them doing it better. In games like that, Josh Allen can't even compete. 

I like Allen better than a lot of people here, but he has a long ways to go as a passer, still. The Bills are taking that big arm of his and trying to turn him into a game manager for a reason: he's inaccurate. He has a low YPA because he has a low comp%. His comp% isn't hurt terribly by a lack of checkdowns because Allen is still inaccurate at 10 yards away. He'll miss any receiver, anywhere. 

If he was my QB, I'd be excited about him, too. But as a division rival, I'm not impressed or concerned. Not until he improves as a passer. 

Yeah I mentioned this on page 8 I believe it was.

The trailing 20 year average is about 50%, give or take.

Which means it’s basically a toss-up.

In other words, throwing for 300 yards I’ve the 20 year average of seasons does not statistically indicate that you were a winner.

Which is the whole point.

Whenever we mention statistics when it comes to a players output, we should ask ourselves whether the statistic actually proves the player is helping the team win.

If a given statistic ends up in losses half of the time, then the statistic doesn’t really show that its a common factor in winning. At best, it’s neutral.

 

[GreenCow]

46 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I live in AZ and watched all of them.  AZ went from 32nd in the league in scoring to 16th.  The guy is a baller.  I'm not a fan of a midget QB who has to continually move to create a throwing lane but by any standards, he had a terrific rookie year.  If he was on the Bills they would have had a legit shot at the SB.  He can actually hit WR in stride consistently.  He's deadly accurate and he can't stand lossing.  

The reality is Baker and Rosen are already busts.  Allen as a passer has been putrid.  Sam was in a different system in year 2 and was sick.  The Jets had a putrid surrounding cast on O last year and he was still better than both Mayfield and Allen.  Nobody predicted Jackson would be the best of the group.  Right now it's not close.  The only one of the remaining 4 that has even shown NFL potential is Sam.  

The difference between Allen and Sam’s completion % was 10 passes.

If Allen checked down 10 more times, he would have had the same completion % as Sam.

Ten. 

The “Allen as a passer was putrid” take is lazy and showcases people who didn’t watch him play.

There is a reason he is getting MVP love and was voted top 100. And it’s not because MVP betters and his peers think he is a putrid passer.

[GreenCow]

32 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said:

You are falling in love with all of what Allens ceiling offers, strongest arm in the league, athletic, and big. But what good is any of that when he often misses the 10 yard out route and has trouble with putting touch on his throws consistently.

For someone with as strong of an arm as Allen, he does not hit deep often enough. Add onto the fact that he already has taken some nasty hits, the Patriots one comes to mind, and i'll pass on Allen and happily build this roster around Darnold. Josh Allen is not the guy, most of us see it here it will take some time but you'll see it too.

This is true.

Its about his ceiling.

My gut feeling is that he hits that ceiling.

But I could be wrong.

That being said, people always equate a strong arm with deep passes. But it’s really about the tight window shorter passes.

[slats]

Just now, GreenCow said:

Yeah I mentioned this on page 8 I believe it was.

The trailing 20 year average is about 50%, give or take.

Which means it’s basically a toss-up.

In other words, throwing for 300 yards I’ve the 20 year average of seasons does not statistically indicate that you were a winner.

Which is the whole point.

Whenever we mention statistics when it comes to a players output, we should ask ourselves whether the statistic actually proves the player is helping the team win.

If a given statistic ends up in losses half of the time, then the statistic doesn’t really show that its a common factor in winning. At best, it’s neutral.

You've been called out on your use of this stat many times already. You're basically using team stats to back your position that an inability to reach 300 yards passing in a football game is actually a good thing. What that stat really is saying is that teams with solid defenses and running games will win a lot of the time without needing to lean on their QB. We saw it with Jimmy Garoppolo last year, threw for 200 yards, total, in his two playoff victories, then when his team needed to lean on him, they couldn't because he's a game manager. 

You have to be able to pass the football in this league, especially in the post season. The QBs who can't always get exposed in the post season. 

[GreenCow]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

You've been called out on your use of this stat many times already. You're basically using team stats to back your position that an inability to reach 300 yards passing in a football game is actually a good thing. What that stat really is saying is that teams with solid defenses and running games will win a lot of the time without needing to lean on their QB. We saw it with Jimmy Garoppolo last year, threw for 200 yards, total, in his two playoff victories, then when his team needed to lean on him, they couldn't because he's a game manager. 

You have to be able to pass the football in this league, especially in the post season. The QBs who can't always get exposed in the post season. 

For the 10th time, I never said it was a good thing not to reach 300 yards.

Thats something you made up in your head.

I literally never said it.

The tactic you’re employing is calling a Straw Man.

Youre mischaracterize what I said and then attempting to attack the mischaracterization. 

I also have not been “called out” for using stats incorrectly.

Ive used them properly the entire time, people just aren’t reading what I’m writing.

Just like you, above, thinking I said that it’s good not to reach 300 yards.

Those words never came out of my mouth.

Ever.

I said it statistically does not matter whether you reach 300 yards.

People have a hard time reading on this forum.

Speaking of post-season, QB’s that threw for over 300 yards in the postseason last year were 2-4 in the playoffs.

Both Super Bowl QB’s threw for under 300 yards, including Mahomes.

Now, for the 11th time, If a given statistic ends up in losses half of the time, then the statistic doesn’t really show that its a common factor in winning. At best, it’s neutral.

[slats]

Just now, GreenCow said:

For the 10th time, I never said it was a good thing not to reach 300 yards.

I also have not been “called out” for using stats incorrectly.

Ive used them properly the entire time, people just aren’t reading what I’m writing.

Just like you, above, said I think that it’s good not to reach 300 yards.

Those words never came out of my mouth.

I said it statistically does not matter whether you reach 300 yards.

People have a hard time reading on this forum.

Speaking of post-season, QB’s that threw for over 300 yards in the postseason last year were 2-4 and none of them made the Super Bowl.

Both Super Bowl QB’s threw for under 300 yards, including Mahomes.

Dude, we're talking about a QB who averages 185 yards a game for his career. He's limited as a passer, and that's problematic for an NFL QB. He's making up for it with his legs right now, but the history of the league suggests that that's not sustainable. Randall Cunningham had to learn how to throw. Lamar Jackson is as exciting as anything I've ever seen on a football field, but if I were his coach I'd be looking to cut his running way back and concentrate on his throwing - which is already light-years ahead of Allen. 

In the NFL, a QB has to be able to throw. He has to be able to produce thru the air. Allen is still struggling with that. Even in Buffalo's losses, where 300 yard games apparently happen, Allen is nowhere. The most yards he had in a loss last year was 266 against Cleveland. In other losses, he threw for 153, 169, 146, and 208. According to what you're saying, he should've been throwing the football in those losses and maybe having one of those 300-yard days that professional QBs have once in a while. He has not been able to, no matter the circumstances, often barely producing half of 300 yards in losses. 

[Grandy]

14 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

For the 10th time, I never said it was a good thing not to reach 300 yards.

Thats something you made up in your head.

I literally never said it.

The tactic you’re employing is calling a Straw Man.

Youre mischaracterize what I said and then attempting to attack the mischaracterization. 

I also have not been “called out” for using stats incorrectly.

Ive used them properly the entire time, people just aren’t reading what I’m writing.

Just like you, above, thinking I said that it’s good not to reach 300 yards.

Those words never came out of my mouth.

Ever.

I said it statistically does not matter whether you reach 300 yards.

People have a hard time reading on this forum.

Speaking of post-season, QB’s that threw for over 300 yards in the postseason last year were 2-4 in the playoffs.

Both Super Bowl QB’s threw for under 300 yards, including Mahomes.

Now, for the 11th time, If a given statistic ends up in losses half of the time, then the statistic doesn’t really show that its a common factor in winning. At best, it’s neutral.

Interestingly enough if you look at the numbers when related to the player you get a different story.

Of the 32 seasons in which a QB averaged 300+ YPG, only 6 had a losing record. Half of those 6 losing seasons were from 1 Drew Brees. While in 7 of those seasons the QB reached the Superbowl. 

[Lupz27]

34 minutes ago, JiF said:

I like Sam Darnold and I'm excited to hear he's looking good in training camp.  Apparently he's like the most serious guy in the league right now and that's exciting. I like that all the WR's came to his Cali workouts too.  Necessary in a shortened offseason. 

If the OL can give him time and Bell/Gore/Perrine can take some pressure off him and actually gain positive yardage, look out!!!  Sam is going to have a coming out party.

I like the way you think!  Can’t wait to see Sam slinging it to his new cast of weapons.  Should be a really fun season with an improved OL, and what sounds like an improved Sam Darnold.

J E T S Jets Jets Jets!!!!!!!!!!

[playtowinthegame]

Over at pro football reference I searched their leaderboard index. I decided to search career completion percentage for all "active" players. The above photo is my search results. 

If I gave Allen a mulligan for his rookie season and took his 2nd season as his career average, he's only 58.8%, still dead last and part of a Chad Henne and Blake Bortles sandwich. Not great company to be in. 

Sam Darnold completed 61.9% of his passes with the weakest supporting cast in the league last season. Raggedy Sam is already up there with the Red Rifle. 

[GreenCow]

36 minutes ago, slats said:

Dude, we're talking about a QB who averages 185 yards a game for his career. He's limited as a passer, and that's problematic for an NFL QB. He's making up for it with his legs right now, but the history of the league suggests that that's not sustainable. Randall Cunningham had to learn how to throw. Lamar Jackson is as exciting as anything I've ever seen on a football field, but if I were his coach I'd be looking to cut his running way back and concentrate on his throwing - which is already light-years ahead of Allen. 

In the NFL, a QB has to be able to throw. He has to be able to produce thru the air. Allen is still struggling with that. Even in Buffalo's losses, where 300 yard games apparently happen, Allen is nowhere. The most yards he had in a loss last year was 266 against Cleveland. In other losses, he threw for 153, 169, 146, and 208. According to what you're saying, he should've been throwing the football in those losses and maybe having one of those 300-yard days that professional QBs have once in a while. He has not been able to, no matter the circumstances, often barely producing half of 300 yards in losses. 

I don't disagree and I doubt Buffalo disagrees either. 

I don't think he has reached his ceiling in year 2.

[GreenCow]

1 hour ago, Grandy said:

Interestingly enough if you look at the numbers when related to the player you get a different story.

Of the 32 seasons in which a QB averaged 300+ YPG, only 6 had a losing record. Half of those 6 losing seasons were from 1 Drew Brees. While in 7 of those seasons the QB reached the Superbowl. 

Your stats are a little off.

Only 21 players have ever averaged 300+ yards per game in a single season, for a total of 26 seasons.

12 of the 21 players are Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Mahomes.

All on stacked teams (or offenses).

That's 3 players out 2,000+ QB's who have played.

Or 21 out of 2,000+ QB's, if you want to include the guys that did it once.

That's basically the definition of an outlier.

Were talking on a game-by-game basis. 

Freak of natures like Mahomes will always be great, whether or not they reach 300 yards or not. For example, he barely scratched 250 in the SB.

[GreenCow]

Sorry. Duplicate post.
 

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, GreenCow said:

The difference between Allen and Sam’s completion % was 10 passes.

If Allen checked down 10 more times, he would have had the same completion % as Sam.

Ten. 

The “Allen as a passer was putrid” take is lazy and showcases people who didn’t watch him play.

There is a reason he is getting MVP love and was voted top 100. And it’s not because MVP betters and his peers think he is a putrid passer.

TheJets were 31st in rushing attempts and 32 in rushing yards per attempt.  The Jets didn't have an OL, a legit No. 2 NFL WR.  Beasley and Brown are actually good NFL WR.  Singletary was actually a very good back both running and receiving.  Bell behind our OL couldn't get out of his own way after a season sitting. 

Sam healthy on the Bills and they win the division.  Allen was asked to do almost noting for the Bills in the passing game.  Sam was asked to carry the Jets.  In spite of that and the lack of supporting cast he was miles better than Allen throwing the football.  

10 passes.  You make the argument about how unimportant 300 yards are and then throw an incredible stupid stat like that.  Allen is a physical freak.  He's not remotely a good NFL QB.  Brown was actually healthy last year.  I saw Brown live as a rookie when he was healthy.  He's a top WR when healthy.  We had nothing remotely as good.  

Granted there are people on this board who think Robbie Anderson is as good or better than John Brown.  Brown has sickle cell and was devastated for several years.  He was on track as a rookie and 2nd year player to be great.  He's a highly polished route runner with elite break away speed. He was healthy last year.  You're adding Diggs this year.  If Allen consistently misses them when they are running wide open down field the Bills fans are going to be calling for his head. 

You watch film of Sam and Allen and Allen is miles behind him right now. 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

I live in AZ and watched all of them.  AZ went from 32nd in the league in scoring to 16th.  The guy is a baller.  I'm not a fan of a midget QB who has to continually move to create a throwing lane but by any standards, he had a terrific rookie year.  If he was on the Bills they would have had a legit shot at the SB.  He can actually hit WR in stride consistently.  He's deadly accurate and he can't stand lossing.  

The reality is Baker and Rosen are already busts.  Allen as a passer has been putrid.  Sam was in a different system in year 2 and was sick.  The Jets had a putrid surrounding cast on O last year and he was still better than both Mayfield and Allen.  Nobody predicted Jackson would be the best of the group.  Right now it's not close.  The only one of the remaining 4 that has even shown NFL potential is Sam.  

I’m in AZ too.  I saw most of Murray’s games last year.  Totally agree with everything in your post.  He really looks to have an outstanding future and I don’t like small QBs but Murray gets a pass because his arm is not only strong but I saw the guy fit some ropes to the sideline to a window smaller than a thimble.

Just an outstanding move by the Cards to take a loss of a 1st Rd pick in Rosen, cut bait immediately in order to get themselves a QB that will make them competitive year in and year out for at least the next decade.

Also agree with Baker, Allen and Rosen being busts.  For the Bills to ever make the playoffs again they’ll have to drag Allen along with them, like a Mark Sanchez situation.  Mayfield will never see the competition he faced with Oklahoma at the highest level and Rosen, who always had a nice arm makes Ken OBrien look like Michael Vick.  Horrific pocket presence.

Darnold, in his first 26 games has hit throws that MANY QBs in the NFL never could.  Yes there are inconsistencies.  I’m not going to blame it ALL on the 3rd Worst OL in NFL history that was “protecting” Darnold his first two years, or the fact that he has never had any kind of Running Game from Day 1 (so No Play-Action in Darnold’s repertoire his entire pro career, that puts a huge limit on any QBs game).  

Anyone who is the slightest bit objective will acknowledge that much of Darnold’s first 2 years he has played 1 on 11.

As Douglas builds a team around Darnold I think it’s fair to project that of the incredible throws you’ve seen him hit from time to time, those are going to ramp up....as are the Wins.

Yeah, Jackson and Darnold are the only QBs from that draft. 

[Lupz27]

Sammy D!!!!!

Looking good baby!

(sorry for derailing this Josh Allen thread)

[GreenCow]

33 minutes ago, Biggs said:

TheJets were 31st in rushing attempts and 32 in rushing yards per attempt.  The Jets didn't have an OL, a legit No. 2 NFL WR.  Beasley and Brown are actually good NFL WR.  Singletary was actually a very good back both running and receiving.  Bell behind our OL couldn't get out of his own way after a season sitting. 

Sam healthy on the Bills and they win the division.  Allen was asked to do almost noting for the Bills in the passing game.  Sam was asked to carry the Jets.  In spite of that and the lack of supporting cast he was miles better than Allen throwing the football.  

10 passes.  You make the argument about how unimportant 300 yards are and then throw an incredible stupid stat like that.  Allen is a physical freak.  He's not remotely a good NFL QB.  Brown was actually healthy last year.  I saw Brown live as a rookie when he was healthy.  He's a top WR when healthy.  We had nothing remotely as good.  

Granted there are people on this board who think Robbie Anderson is as good or better than John Brown.  Brown has sickle cell and was devastated for several years.  He was on track as a rookie and 2nd year player to be great.  He's a highly polished route runner with elite break away speed. He was healthy last year.  You're adding Diggs this year.  If Allen consistently misses them when they are running wide open down field the Bills fans are going to be calling for his head. 

You watch film of Sam and Allen and Allen is miles behind him right now. 

I suppose its one of those agree to disagree situations. 

We shall find out soon enough who is correct, with the season only a month away.

[GreenCow]

45 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Darnold, in his first 26 games has hit throws that MANY QBs in the NFL never could.  

Can you show us a few?

Personally, I think it's the opposite.

Allen makes throws that very few QB's could make.

I disagree with those that call Darnold noodle arm, but I think his arm is average at best.

For example, I think he would struggle to do any of these.

The first one especially, because in the "ghost"game, Sam was getting hit when he was throwing the ball, and he could get no torque on it. Allen threw it 50 yards while being hit.

 

And this one took every ounce of his near arm. If this was a nano-second slower, it doesn't make it.

 

 

 

 

And then there is this kind of insane crap he does.

Its nuts.

 

 

 

 

[Lupz27]

37 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Can you show us a few?

Personally, I think it's the opposite.

Allen makes throws that very few QB's could make.

I disagree with those that call Darnold noodle arm, but I think his arm is average at best.

For example, I think he would struggle to do any of these.

The first one especially, because in the "ghost"game, Sam was getting hit when he was throwing the ball, and he could get no torque on it. Allen threw it 50 yards while being hit.

 

And this one took every ounce of his near arm. If this was a nano-second slower, it doesn't make it.

 

 

 

 

And then there is this kind of insane crap he does.

Its nuts.

 

 

 

 

WOW Amazing!

Now take this trash to the Bills fans forums please.  The thread is about Sam Darnold, you have derailed it for like 3 days now.  Enough.

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, GreenCow said:

For the 10th time, I never said it was a good thing not to reach 300 yards.

Thats something you made up in your head.

I literally never said it.

The tactic you’re employing is calling a Straw Man.

Youre mischaracterize what I said and then attempting to attack the mischaracterization. 

I also have not been “called out” for using stats incorrectly.

Ive used them properly the entire time, people just aren’t reading what I’m writing.

Just like you, above, thinking I said that it’s good not to reach 300 yards.

Those words never came out of my mouth.

Ever.

I said it statistically does not matter whether you reach 300 yards.

People have a hard time reading on this forum.

Speaking of post-season, QB’s that threw for over 300 yards in the postseason last year were 2-4 in the playoffs.

Both Super Bowl QB’s threw for under 300 yards, including Mahomes.

Now, for the 11th time, If a given statistic ends up in losses half of the time, then the statistic doesn’t really show that its a common factor in winning. At best, it’s neutral.

*11th

[Losmeister]

4 hours ago, slats said:

The QBs who can't always get exposed in the post season. 

except for late Denver Peyton

[Losmeister]

so this year Allen is the new Mayfield and there will be thread and interjections constantly???

 

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuug

[Losmeister]

4 hours ago, playtowinthegame said:

Raggedy Sam is already up there with the Red Rifle. 

Someone made this comparison before....

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

2 hours ago, GreenCow said:

Can you show us a few?

Personally, I think it's the opposite.

Allen makes throws that very few QB's could make.

I disagree with those that call Darnold noodle arm, but I think his arm is average at best.

For example, I think he would struggle to do any of these.

The first one especially, because in the "ghost"game, Sam was getting hit when he was throwing the ball, and he could get no torque on it. Allen threw it 50 yards while being hit.

 

And this one took every ounce of his near arm. If this was a nano-second slower, it doesn't make it.

 

 

 

 

And then there is this kind of insane crap he does.

Its nuts.

 

 

 

 

Do you have anymore?  Or are these handful are his best plays over 2 years?

I know he has a cannon arm, but it’s way too inaccurate and that’s even when someone is running free.  I haven’t seen him hit many tight window throws.  I can’t say I’ve seen his entire career like Darnold’s but Darnold hits many throws in the tightest of windows using varying speeds on the ball that gives his receiver opportunity for the greatest YAC.  Allen throws with ONLY 1 speed.

Ill take Darnold every day of the week over Allen.  You want to go back a little further I’d take Allen over Sanchez based on potential alone.  But I still wouldn’t expect much.

I don’t think I’m wrong.
 

 

[GreenCow]

26 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Do you have anymore?  Or are these handful are his best plays over 2 years?

I know he has a cannon arm, but it’s way too inaccurate and that’s even when someone is running free.  I haven’t seen him hit many tight window throws.  I can’t say I’ve seen his entire career like Darnold’s but Darnold hits many throws in the tightest of windows using varying speeds on the ball that gives his receiver opportunity for the greatest YAC.  Allen throws with ONLY 1 speed.

Ill take Darnold every day of the week over Allen.  You want to go back a little further I’d take Allen over Sanchez based on potential alone.  But I still wouldn’t expect much.

I don’t think I’m wrong.
 

 

I wasn't trying to pick out his best plays. Just plays where he makes throws that other QB's simply can't.

He can fit a ball into windows that I think only he and Mahomes can.

A couple of those throws, I think Darnold get's intercepted on. Because the "oomph" is not at Allen's level.

At the same time, one could argue that Darnold simply wouldn't have chosen to make that pass into a tight window.

He may have found a receiver who he could float a beautiful ball over the shoulder to. 

But there is literally 0 chance that Darnold has the arm Allen does. He just doesn't. But maybe he doesn't need to.

You mentioned you haven't watched Allen much. I think most people on this forum haven't watched him much. Which makes it silly to judge him. I still need to watch more myself, but I've seen a bunch on GamePass.

Since you asked for other throws, here is a throw that he put on a rope between two defenders. I tore my rotator just watching it. And then a throw at the bottom where he just about threw a ball out of the stadium.

 

 

 

 

[Biggs]

35 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

I wasn't trying to pick out his best plays. Just plays where he makes throws that other QB's simply can't.

He can fit a ball into windows that I think only he and Mahomes can.

 

Fitting balls into windows breaks glass.  The ability to make throws other guys can't only matters if you're accurate.  Joe Montana had a below average NFL arm.  Tom Brady has an average NFL arm.  They didn't just fit balls into tight windows.  They actually threw their WR open and created something called YAC.   

Allen is one of the few QB's who throw less INT's because of his accuracy.  CB actually cover WR and his throws are so far off the mark so often that the opportunity for INT's actually drop.  If you're covering the barn and the guy can't hit the side of the barn your opportunity to get INT's actually goes down.  

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

so this year Allen is the new Mayfield and there will be thread and interjections constantly???

 

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuug

Allen is more mentally tough than Baker

 

But then again so is a plastic fork