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Sam Darnold looking good in camp

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1 hour ago, GreenCow said:

I wasn't trying to pick out his best plays. Just plays where he makes throws that other QB's simply can't.

He can fit a ball into windows that I think only he and Mahomes can.

A couple of those throws, I think Darnold get's intercepted on. Because the "oomph" is not at Allen's level.

At the same time, one could argue that Darnold simply wouldn't have chosen to make that pass into a tight window.

He may have found a receiver who he could float a beautiful ball over the shoulder to. 

But there is literally 0 chance that Darnold has the arm Allen does. He just doesn't. But maybe he doesn't need to.

You mentioned you haven't watched Allen much. I think most people on this forum haven't watched him much. Which makes it silly to judge him. I still need to watch more myself, but I've seen a bunch on GamePass.

Since you asked for other throws, here is a throw that he put on a rope between two defenders. I tore my rotator just watching it. And then a throw at the bottom where he just about threw a ball out of the stadium.

 

 

 

 

I’ll say it again.  I KNOW he has a cannon arm.  I know it is stronger than Darnold’s, who actually has a strong arm too, when he needs it.  There is footage of him throwing with a radar gun on him.  More than strong enough.  In fact I recall posting a throw Darnold hit against Minnesota, an out route with practically a zero window.  The throw had to be absolutely ripped to get it there...and he did.  I was actually pleasantly surprised because I didn’t think his arm could do that.  Brian Baldinger commenting said “that’s a big boy throw right there”.

If you’re hoping for Allen to be the next John Elway or even Elway’s predecessor Bert Jones he is so many miles distant from them....you can’t even see him.

His arm is just way too inaccurate.  I’ve always wished that that could be corrected when the Jets would come up with a guy with a rocket like Browning Nagle, but sadly it can’t.  The latest version being Christian Hackenberg.  Now don’t get me wrong I’m not insinuating Allen is anything like Hackenberg but I just feel like he’s going to let you down.  I’d even take Jeff George in a second over Josh Allen.

Im more than happy with our guy Darnold and when he finally has some talent around him, he’s going to give the league lots of problems.  His trajectory is trending up...10th Rated Passer in the NFL over the final 8 games last years with a 6-2 Record, albeit against weak teams.

10th Rated is not too shabby playing behind the 3rd Worst OL in NFL history, No Running Game, and no one to write home about at WR....whatever good Darnold has shown over his first 26 games as a Pro has been ALL on his own.

Again, I wouldn’t think twice about taking him over Allen.  Too many of Allen’s throws are far off target and he only throws one speed.  Can we agree on that?  If not I’m not wasting anymore time with this subject.

I wonder how Allen would have looked playing with the EXACT same personnel Darnold was forced to.

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10 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

I’ll say it again.  I KNOW he has a cannon arm.  I know it is stronger than Darnold’s, who actually has a strong arm too, when he needs it.  There is footage of him throwing with a radar gun on him.  More than strong enough.  In fact I recall posting a throw Darnold hit against Minnesota, an out route with practically a zero window.  The throw had to be absolutely ripped to get it there...and he did.  I was actually pleasantly surprised because I didn’t think his arm could do that.  Brian Baldinger commenting said “that’s a big boy throw right there”.

If you’re hoping for Allen to be the next John Elway or even Elway’s predecessor Bert Jones he is so many miles distant from them....you can’t even see him.

His arm is just way too inaccurate.  I’ve always wished that that could be corrected when the Jets would come up with a guy with a rocket like Browning Nagle, but sadly it can’t.  The latest version being Christian Hackenberg.  Now don’t get me wrong I’m not insinuating Allen is anything like Hackenberg but I just feel like he’s going to let you down.  I’d even take Jeff George in a second over Josh Allen.

Im more than happy with our guy Darnold and when he finally has some talent around him, he’s going to give the league lots of problems.  His trajectory is trending up...10th Rated Passer in the NFL over the final 8 games last years with a 6-2 Record, albeit against weak teams.

10th Rated is not too shabby playing behind the 3rd Worst OL in NFL history, No Running Game, and no one to write home about at WR....whatever good Darnold has shown over his first 26 games as a Pro has been ALL on his own.

Again, I wouldn’t think twice about taking him over Allen.  Too many of Allen’s throws are far off target and he only throws one speed.  Can we agree on that?  If not I’m not wasting anymore time with this subject.

I wonder how Allen would have looked playing with the EXACT same personnel Darnold was forced to.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

I agree Allen is more inaccurate, but perhaps not as wildly as you do.

Put it this way - 10 passes is the difference between Allen and Sam’s completion %.

If Allen checked down 10 more times all season, he would have the same completion % as Sam.

But we’ll see what happens. Season is only a month away!

Personally, I’m hoping that Allen vs Sam becomes the next big quarterback battle

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19 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

I agree Allen is more inaccurate, but perhaps not as wildly as you do.

Put it this way - 10 passes is the difference between Allen and Sam’s completion %.

If Allen checked down 10 more times all season, he would have the same completion % as Sam.

But we’ll see what happens. Season is only a month away!

Personally, I’m hoping that Allen vs Sam becomes the next big quarterback battle

If he checked down 10 more times what makes you think he completes more than 5 of his check downs?  

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2 hours ago, GreenCow said:

I wasn't trying to pick out his best plays. Just plays where he makes throws that other QB's simply can't.

He can fit a ball into windows that I think only he and Mahomes can.

A couple of those throws, I think Darnold get's intercepted on. Because the "oomph" is not at Allen's level.

At the same time, one could argue that Darnold simply wouldn't have chosen to make that pass into a tight window.

He may have found a receiver who he could float a beautiful ball over the shoulder to. 

But there is literally 0 chance that Darnold has the arm Allen does. He just doesn't. But maybe he doesn't need to.

You mentioned you haven't watched Allen much. I think most people on this forum haven't watched him much. Which makes it silly to judge him. I still need to watch more myself, but I've seen a bunch on GamePass.

Since you asked for other throws, here is a throw that he put on a rope between two defenders. I tore my rotator just watching it. And then a throw at the bottom where he just about threw a ball out of the stadium.

 

 

 

 

Here's an article where Allen is talking about how he doesn't think anyone spins the ball like Sam. Allen has the stronger arm....but the difference isn't as a big as most of you Buffalo fans imagine it is.

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2020/06/bills-josh-allen-explains-how-hes-relied-on-jets-qb-sam-darnold.html

 

Allen quote:

“I’ll say this about Sam, as a thrower I don’t know if you can find somebody that spins the ball more than he does. He spins it so well that the ball is really shaking,” Allen said. “And it’s just weird to watch from behind because the ball is just moving in the air because it spins so much. ... He’s naturally gifted when it comes to that.

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50 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

I agree Allen is more inaccurate, but perhaps not as wildly as you do.

Put it this way - 10 passes is the difference between Allen and Sam’s completion %.

If Allen checked down 10 more times all season, he would have the same completion % as Sam.

But we’ll see what happens. Season is only a month away!

Personally, I’m hoping that Allen vs Sam becomes the next big quarterback battle

Wrong......he would have to check it down 20 more times to complete 10.....thats just facts....completion percentage.

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2 hours ago, GreenCow said:

He can fit a ball into windows that I think only he and Mahomes can.

Buddy, you can’t make silly comments like this while simultaneously pretending not to be a Bills fan. Seriously. Come clean. 

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6 minutes ago, slats said:

Buddy, you can’t make silly comments like this while simultaneously pretending not to be a Bills fan. Seriously. Come clean. 

I don’t understand what’s so silly about it.

Its fact.

Am I a KC fan too because I said Mahomes can make that same strong armed throw?

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17 minutes ago, jetsman1 said:

Wrong......he would have to check it down 20 more times to complete 10.....thats just facts....completion percentage.

Haha fair enough.

If he’s missing checkdowns next year, then I’ll be out on him too.

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21 minutes ago, jetsman1 said:

Here's an article where Allen is talking about how he doesn't think anyone spins the ball like Sam. Allen has the stronger arm....but the difference isn't as a big as most of you Buffalo fans imagine it is.

https://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/2020/06/bills-josh-allen-explains-how-hes-relied-on-jets-qb-sam-darnold.html

 

Allen quote:

“I’ll say this about Sam, as a thrower I don’t know if you can find somebody that spins the ball more than he does. He spins it so well that the ball is really shaking,” Allen said. “And it’s just weird to watch from behind because the ball is just moving in the air because it spins so much. ... He’s naturally gifted when it comes to that.

Yeah they’re friends! Good for them.

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2 hours ago, GreenCow said:

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

I agree Allen is more inaccurate, but perhaps not as wildly as you do.

Put it this way - 10 passes is the difference between Allen and Sam’s completion %.

If Allen checked down 10 more times all season, he would have the same completion % as Sam.

But we’ll see what happens. Season is only a month away!

Personally, I’m hoping that Allen vs Sam becomes the next big quarterback battle

I think they’re actually buddies from coming up through the draft.  They hang together.

Should be lots of tough games between the two.  Buffalo has put together a very good team in a short period of time.  Wish the Jets had had your HC and FO over that time.  Although I’m ecstatic about the Jet GM now, but our team lost lots of time.  Easiest example is the total garbage surrounding Darnold his first two years.

Yeah lots of good competition between Darnold and Allen.

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1 hour ago, slats said:

No. Mahomes fits footballs into windows. Allen misses entire buildings. 

Lol ok.

This was a very small building.

Microscopic even.

 

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12 hours ago, GreenCow said:

Haha fair enough.

If he’s missing checkdowns next year, then I’ll be out on him too.

Bills fan. Clear as day with this response.

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Bills fan. Clear as day with this response.

I can’t even begin to understand the logic here.

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18 hours ago, GreenCow said:

But there is literally 0 chance that Darnold has the arm Allen does. He just doesn't. But maybe he doesn't need to.

Allen threw at 68 mph

Sam 60 mph

Watson 48 mph

Wentz 58 mph

Guess what, the guy who throws 48 is easily the most accomplished

68 is a negligible difference from 60 mph, both are more than enough to get it done in the NFL as proven by Watsons low value

You're a Bills troll who has no idea what hes arguing.  300 yard games arent good, are rare and now arm strength 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Allen threw at 68 mph

Sam 60 mph

Watson 48 mph

Wentz 58 mph

Guess what, the guy who throws 48 is easily the most accomplished

68 is a negligible difference from 60 mph, both are more than enough to get it done in the NFL as proven by Watsons low value

You're a Bills troll who has no idea what hes arguing.  300 yard games arent good, are rare and now arm strength 

I never said it wasn’t.

In fact, I said the opposite.

Reading comprehension is rough on this forum.

PS, where is Sams number coming from? I can’t find it anywhere. He clocked 56.5 mph at the combine from what I’m reading.

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11 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

I never said it wasn’t.

In fact, I said the opposite.

Reading comprehension is rough on this forum.

PS, where is Sams number coming from? I can’t find it anywhere. He clocked 56.5 mph at the combine from what I’m reading.

Sam didn't throw at the combine. 

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19 hours ago, Biggs said:

Fitting balls into windows breaks glass.  The ability to make throws other guys can't only matters if you're accurate.  Joe Montana had a below average NFL arm.  Tom Brady has an average NFL arm.  They didn't just fit balls into tight windows.  They actually threw their WR open and created something called YAC.   

Allen is one of the few QB's who throw less INT's because of his accuracy.  CB actually cover WR and his throws are so far off the mark so often that the opportunity for INT's actually drop.  If you're covering the barn and the guy can't hit the side of the barn your opportunity to get INT's actually goes down.  

Lets keep it simple...

"The most predictive measure of future success, according to PFF, is accuracy from a clean pocket. In that regard, Darnold is head and shoulders better than most—Darnold's 72.2% completion percentage when kept clean ranked 11th among 30 NFL QBs with at least 300 dropbacks while Allen posted the third-worst percentage at 65.8%"  ........ reported on the WFAN....Jun 3, 2020"

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12 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Lets keep it simple...

"The most predictive measure of future success, according to PFF, is accuracy from a clean pocket. In that regard, Darnold is head and shoulders better than most—Darnold's 72.2% completion percentage when kept clean ranked 11th among 30 NFL QBs with at least 300 dropbacks while Allen posted the third-worst percentage at 65.8%"  ........ reported on the WFAN....Jun 3, 2020"

Completion percentage doesn't encapsulate accuracy fully.  All completions are not equal.  Ball placement on completed passes can actually be placed in different areas.  As an example Montana was a genius on ball placement to run his WR free for extra yardage.  Nuance and subtlety often separate the genius from the very good.  NFL QB's who have similar completion percentages can still be vastly better or worse than the guys putting up very similar stats.

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3 hours ago, GreenCow said:

I can’t even begin to understand the logic here.

Probably because your 10 years old?

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1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Completion percentage doesn't encapsulate accuracy fully.  All completions are not equal.  Ball placement on completed passes can actually be placed in different areas.  As an example Montana was a genius on ball placement to run his WR free for extra yardage.  Nuance and subtlety often separate the genius from the very good.  NFL QB's who have similar completion percentages can still be vastly better or worse than the guys putting up very similar stats.

That's why YPA is important.  Darnold, with a bottom 5 roster, has put up 6.9 for his career.  Better than Allen's 6.6 with a very solid supporting cast.

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2 hours ago, GreenCow said:

I never said it wasn’t.

In fact, I said the opposite.

Reading comprehension is rough on this forum.

PS, where is Sams number coming from? I can’t find it anywhere. He clocked 56.5 mph at the combine from what I’m reading.

Except that you did

And it came back at you all night, just stop already and admit you F'd up

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30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's why YPA is important.  Darnold, with a bottom 5 roster, has put up 6.9 for his career.  Better than Allen's 6.6 with a very solid supporting cast.

And his "bigger" arm

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21 hours ago, Biggs said:

Fitting balls into windows breaks glass.  The ability to make throws other guys can't only matters if you're accurate.  Joe Montana had a below average NFL arm.  Tom Brady has an average NFL arm.  They didn't just fit balls into tight windows.  They actually threw their WR open and created something called YAC.   

Allen is one of the few QB's who throw less INT's because of his accuracy.  CB actually cover WR and his throws are so far off the mark so often that the opportunity for INT's actually drop.  If you're covering the barn and the guy can't hit the side of the barn your opportunity to get INT's actually goes down.  

That doesn’t make much sense to me, because as already pointed out, Allen and Darnold‘a completion percentages are separated by only ten passes.

10.

If Alan was as wildly accurate as you claim, then the difference would not only be 10 passes. You also said that you have not watched much of Allen, so I’m confused how you have drawn your conclusion.

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10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Except that you did

And it came back at you all night, just stop already and admit you F'd up

No I didn’t.

But if you would like to claim that I did, post the link to where I said that.

Show us the post where I said Sam doesn’t have the arm to be an NFL QB.

Or are you having trouble following the conversation again?

You have claimed that I have said many things throughout this thread and every time I ask you to link the post, you run away. 

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38 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's why YPA is important.  Darnold, with a bottom 5 roster, has put up 6.9 for his career.  Better than Allen's 6.6 with a very solid supporting cast.

Once again, YPA makes no sense in this context.

I already schooled you on this. You conveniently never responded to that post.

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8 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

No I didn’t.

But if you would like to claim that I did, post the link to where I said that.

Show us the post where I said Sam doesn’t have the arm to be an NFL QB.

Or are you having trouble following the conversation again?

You have claimed that I have said many things throughout this thread and every time I ask you to link the post, you run away. 

All the initial posts in reponse to @Mogglez

Know what's just as lame, actually more lame than your constant comments quickly followed up with denials? 

That you actually were a dweeb enough to make believe you were a Jets fan and tried to pull it off.

Makes you, cant find the words

 

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9 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

That doesn’t make much sense to me, because as already pointed out, Allen and Darnold‘a completion percentages are separated by only ten passes.

10.

If Alan was as wildly accurate as you claim, then the difference would not only be 10 passes. You also said that you have not watched much of Allen, so I’m confused how you have drawn your conclusion.

That's because you ignore the fact that the NFL is a team game.  In the context of the actual supporting cast Josh Allen is trash as a passer and an anchor creating drag on a very good team.  Sam carried a bad team on his back.  If Allen had failed to complete 10 more passes his completion percentage would have gone down.  

Allen on a better team was worse than Sam.  Allen is far below average as a passer as compared to good starting NFL QB's.  He's trash with a rocket arm.

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QBs like Allen, Jackson and even Tannehill have big advantages because the defense always have to guard against the run. Base defense is whole lot easier to pass than nickel or dime. More power to them, but the running game changes everything


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

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18 minutes ago, Biggs said:

That's because you ignore the fact that the NFL is a team game.  In the context of the actual supporting cast Josh Allen is trash as a passer and an anchor creating drag on a very good team.  Sam carried a bad team on his back.  If Allen had failed to complete 10 more passes his completion percentage would have gone down.  

Allen on a better team was worse than Sam.  Allen is far below average as a passer as compared to good starting NFL QB's.  He's trash with a rocket arm.

What does that have to do with the fact that only 10 passes separate Allen and Darnold’s completion percentage?

I hear you when you say that you think Allen is trash. I’m well aware of that. But you seem to say that he is very inaccurate, but you don’t really have much of any response to the fact that there’s only 10 passes that separate the two.

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2 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Lets keep it simple...

"The most predictive measure of future success, according to PFF, is accuracy from a clean pocket. In that regard, Darnold is head and shoulders better than most—Darnold's 72.2% completion percentage when kept clean ranked 11th among 30 NFL QBs with at least 300 dropbacks while Allen posted the third-worst percentage at 65.8%"  ........ reported on the WFAN....Jun 3, 2020"

Great "Get" by you.  Good job.

Ok let me put this whole subject to bed right now with this Video.  I see they gave him 56mph and change on it, but I've seen him documented at over 60.  Again, not saying he can throw a ball as fast as Josh Allen (who rarely knows where it will end up much of the time, and throws that 1 speed).  The Out Route I saw him hit against Minnesota with the corner glued on one of the Jets so-called WR's (from Darnold's first 2 years), was definitely over 60mph.  BUt who cares.  He can make ANY THROW and use varying speeds to give his receiver the opportunity for greatest YAC.

If Douglas puts just some AVERAGE NFL players around Darnold, the key word there is "NFL"....Look Out.  Darnold will easily be Top 10 (which is what he was over the Final 8 games last year).  Virtually the entire Maccagnan Unit inflicted on Darnold over his first 26 Pro Games would NEVER have started on almost any other Pro team.  I'm talking the ENTIRE OFFENSE.

So you put some NFL talent around him, he will be doing....THIS...and he can do it in his sleep.  Kid's the Natural.

Josh Allen can not do this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POYSw431X0E

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