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Sam Darnold looking good in camp


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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

So now its the people who believe in him

Thats now a data point?

LOL

That was what we were discussing at that moment. Yes. Apparently you weren’t following along.

And then tried to say I was “spinning” because you were having trouble reading the words on the screen lol.

hilarious.

Perhaps, next time, try reading the conversation instead of guessing what we are talking about. 

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Just now, GreenCow said:

Yeah, read my posts. I never said what you think I said. Ever. You made some fantasy up in your mind.

Its all there. In black and white. Read it.

yeah, you did

Stop trolling.

Youre getting beat up over and over again

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2 hours ago, SOJ said:

Sorry for your loss... your entitled to your opinion regardless if it is right or wrong...

I’m fine with different opinions.  Nobody is saying Sam has been great.  We simply have faith in him and like the flashes he has shown despite having so many obstacles like a awful oline, no weapons, injuries, etc 

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1 hour ago, Grandy said:

I don't think people are hyping Allen up because he's going to be some QB wiz like Rodgers/Mahomes, I expect that it's more so due to the fact that he has tremendous athletic ability while having an absolute cannon. With intangibles like his it's no wonder why there's hype. Though he's far from a polished passer and I'm not certain of him ever becoming that, he's still exciting. 

However I think Kyler Murray is just a better version of that strong-armed scrambler prototype, and he's my dark horse MVP pick. 

Kyle Murray is miles better than Allen.  It's really not a fair comparison.  Murray is a deadly accurate midget with a lightning fast release who while very quick goes down on arm contact.  He's basically Baker Mayfield with a brain and amazing lateral quickness.  Josh Allen wouldn't get off the bench if the Bills had Murray.  

Darnold was better than both Allen and Mayfield last year in spite of the sh*t show he is dealing with.  Murray is in a different league than all 3 of them until one of them actually steps up their game.

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31 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Kyle Murray is miles better than Allen.  It's really not a fair comparison.  Murray is a deadly accurate midget with a lightning fast release who while very quick goes down on arm contact.  He's basically Baker Mayfield with a brain and amazing lateral quickness.  Josh Allen wouldn't get off the bench if the Bills had Murray.  

Darnold was better than both Allen and Mayfield last year in spite of the sh*t show he is dealing with.  Murray is in a different league than all 3 of them until one of them actually steps up their game.

I like Murray too. Here are the stats.

Allen: 3,599 total yards. 29 Total TD’s. 9 INT’s. 10-6 record.

Murray: 4,266 total yards. 24 Total TD’s. 12 INT’s. 5-10-1 record.

Darnold: 3,086 total yards. 21 Total TD’s. 13 INT’s. 7-6 record.

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48 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

I like Murray too. Here are the stats.

Allen: 3,599 total yards. 29 Total TD’s. 9 INT’s. 10-6 record.

Murray: 4,266 total yards. 24 Total TD’s. 12 INT’s. 5-10-1 record.

Darnold: 3,086 total yards. 21 Total TD’s. 13 INT’s. 7-6 record.

As an actual QB Murray 1, Darnold 2 Allen 3. 

Allen played on a team with a defense that was arguably SB caliber last year.  They asked him to do very little with the football. In spite of that his completion percentage and YPA were pathetic.  Mark Sanchez with a similar built team as Buffalo took the Jets to two AFC finals and actually won playoff games.  Sanchez if you recall busted out of the NFL.

 Murray and Darnold played on two putrid teams with zero O lines and they were asked to carry their teams.  Darnold's record last year was 7 and 6 in games he actually played.  Buffalo would have gone to the AFC finals and had a shot with either Darnold or Murray last year.  Allen on either the Jets or the Cardinals last year would have been awful.  He would have been asked to carry the teams and would have looked like he did in the 2nd half against Houston in the playoffs, lost and confused.

His a big running back with a big arm and no real talent as a passer.  He has shown no ability as an actual passer.  Not to say he won't develop as a passer but be honest.  As a starting QB his passing talent stinks.  Arm talent is not the same thing.

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16 minutes ago, Biggs said:

As an actual QB Murray 1, Darnold 2 Allen 3. 

Allen played on a team with a defense that was arguably SB caliber last year.  They asked him to do very little with the football. In spite of that his completion percentage and YPA were pathetic.  Mark Sanchez with a similar built team as Buffalo took the Jets to two AFC finals and actually won playoff games.  Sanchez if you recall busted out of the NFL.

 Murray and Darnold played on two putrid teams with zero O lines and they were asked to carry their teams.  Darnold's record last year was 7 and 6 in games he actually played.  Buffalo would have gone to the AFC finals and had a shot with either Darnold or Murray last year.  Allen on either the Jets or the Cardinals last year would have been awful.  He would have been asked to carry the teams and would have looked like he did in the 2nd half against Houston in the playoffs, lost and confused.

His a big running back with a big arm and no real talent as a passer.  He has shown no ability as an actual passer.  Not to say he won't develop as a passer but be honest.  As a starting QB his passing talent stinks.  Arm talent is not the same thing.

Time will tell.

I agree with you a bit on Murray. I think he’s legit.

Very much disagree on Darnold. I just don’t see it. I think you kinda don’t see it too, because you called Allen’s YPA pathetic but Darnold only averaged 2/10ths of a yard more than Allen. Not to mention less TD’s, More INT’s and less Yards.

But touchdowns win games and Allen had more Touchdowns than both Murray and Darnold.

A lot more.

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10 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Time will tell.

I agree with you a bit on Murray. I think he’s legit.

Very much disagree on Darnold. I just don’t see it. I think you kinda don’t see it too, because you called Allen’s YPA pathetic but Darnold only averaged 2/10ths of a yard more than Allen. Not to mention less TD’s, More INT’s and less Yards.

But touchdowns win games and Allen had more Touchdowns than both Murray and Darnold.

A lot more.

I was going to stay out of this thread, but you've lured me in with your multiple references to Allen's win loss record.

Do you legitimately think that if Darnold and Allen swapped spots the Bills would be worse and the Jets would he better?  

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Actually, I didn’t infer anything.
I said QB’s that throw for 300 yards often end up losing the game.
That is an absolute fact.
What to try again with a different post?

A fact?
In 2014, there were 122 300-yard passing games and those quarterbacks won 57.7 percent of the time.

2018 there were 132 for a winning percentage of 49.2%

2019 54.4 winning percentage
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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I was going to stay out of this thread, but you've lured me in with your multiple references to Allen's win loss record.

Do you legitimately think that if Darnold and Allen swapped spots the Bills would be worse and the Jets would he better?  

Yes.

I think Allen is the better QB.

I realize why people hate on Allen, the accuracy thing is there and he’s a divisional foe.

But watch him play and the guy is a baller.

He can make throws that Darnold simply physically cant, guys will run through a brick wall for him, and I think his upside is much higher.

I think Darnolds ceiling is Pennington, which really is somewhat of a compliment because I liked Pennington.

Allens upside is a Hall of Famer. At the same time, he also has a floor of a guy whose out of the league in 5 years. But my gut feeling is that he’s a stud.

In short, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Allen is getting MVP love and was ranked in the top 100 while Darnold is getting zero mvp love and was not only not in the top 100 but didn’t even make the honorable mentions.

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1 hour ago, Claymation said:


A fact?
In 2014, there were 122 300-yard passing games and those quarterbacks won 57.7 percent of the time.

2018 there were 132 for a winning percentage of 49.2%

2019 54.4 winning percentage

You actually bring up a good point.

The 20 year trailing average is basically 50%.

Which essentially means it doesn’t matter either way. It’s a toss up.

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14 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Yes.

I think Allen is the better QB.

I realize why people hate on Allen, the accuracy thing is there and he’s a divisional foe.

But watch him play and the guy is a baller.

He can make throws that Darnold simply physically cant, guys will run through a brick wall for him, and I think his upside is much higher.

I think Darnolds ceiling is Pennington, which really is somewhat of a compliment because I liked Pennington.

Allens upside is a Hall of Famer. At the same time, he also has a floor of a guy whose out of the league in 5 years. But my gut feeling is that he’s a stud.

Well ok then.  Josh Allen is a baller with hall of fame potential. 

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4 hours ago, Biggs said:

Kyle Murray is miles better than Allen.  It's really not a fair comparison.  Murray is a deadly accurate midget with a lightning fast release who while very quick goes down on arm contact.  He's basically Baker Mayfield with a brain and amazing lateral quickness.  Josh Allen wouldn't get off the bench if the Bills had Murray.  

Darnold was better than both Allen and Mayfield last year in spite of the sh*t show he is dealing with.  Murray is in a different league than all 3 of them until one of them actually steps up their game.

I was actually more impressed with both Allen and Darnold than I was with Murray. 
 

How many Arizona Cardinals games did folks really watch on TV? I actually watched a bunch and there were a ton of empty stats Murray put up. 

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8 hours ago, GreenCow said:

Actually, I didn’t infer anything.

I said QB’s that throw for 300 yards often end up losing the game.

That is an absolute fact.

What to try again with a different post?

"300 yard games often result in the QB losing."

That's what you said. The 300yd game results in the QB losing. The more accurate statistical statement would be QBs who are on the losing team have a higher propensity for >300yds passing. Again you are completely wrong from a data analytics standpoint with the conclusion you are drawing. 

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4 minutes ago, TheMo said:

"300 yard games often result in the QB losing."

That's what you said. The 300yd game results in the QB losing. The more accurate statistical statement would be QBs who are on the losing team have a higher propensity for >300yds passing. Again you are completely wrong from a data analytics standpoint with the conclusion you are drawing. 

That’s correct. QB’s that throw for 300 yard games often lose.

Im not sure what you’re struggling with here. That statement is still correct.

This is due to the fact that often when QB’s need to throw for 300+ yards, is when there team is already losing, so they turn to the passing game to get them back in it.
 

Edit; I see now that you have a problem with how I worded it. What you said is what I meant, but now I see that you took it a different way.

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Yes.
I think Allen is the better QB.
I realize why people hate on Allen, the accuracy thing is there and he’s a divisional foe.
But watch him play and the guy is a baller.
He can make throws that Darnold simply physically cant, guys will run through a brick wall for him, and I think his upside is much higher.
I think Darnolds ceiling is Pennington, which really is somewhat of a compliment because I liked Pennington.
Allens upside is a Hall of Famer. At the same time, he also has a floor of a guy whose out of the league in 5 years. But my gut feeling is that he’s a stud.
In short, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Allen is getting MVP love and was ranked in the top 100 while Darnold is getting zero mvp love and was not only not in the top 100 but didn’t even make the honorable mentions.

This is frikkin hilarious.


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9 hours ago, GreenCow said:

realize why people hate on Allen, the accuracy thing is there and he’s a divisional foe.

But watch him play and the guy is a baller.

He can make throws that Darnold simply physically cant, guys will run through a brick wall for him, and I think his upside is much higher.

I think Darnolds ceiling is Pennington, which really is somewhat of a compliment because I liked Pennington.

1.  no one is hating on Allen.  Saying hes inaccurate and misses throws is a fact, its not hating.

2.  There isnt a throw Sam cant make.  Heres the big fail, yes Allen has a gun and has the stronger arm but Sam has a really strong arm, both do. Sam can make every throw a QB needs to make, the extra zip adds little to anyones game.  Watching one Sams game at USC they were saying his arm strength would put him in the top 5% of the NFL and thats about it.  It was said that Sam was clocked at 60 mph at USC, Baker was 60, Allen 68 mph.  Better than most and more than enough.  Its the only comparison Allen wins.  

3.  The Penny reference if we're talking Pennys mind, thats doesnt need to called a compliment, we all know it is.  But given the big arm vs noodle arm its kind of what id expect from you

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6 minutes ago, slats said:

So I guess if 300 yard games are bad, averaging 185 yards a game must signal greatness... ? 

I think it’s similar to scoring 20 points in basketball in that it needs some context. If you chuck up 35 shots and your team loses its not a good game. 
 

Same thing with QBs. If you throw for 300 on 50 pass attempts it probably means your team losing the game. On the same hand if you throw for 185 under 25 pass attempts with no turnovers that’s likely a winning performance 

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1 minute ago, GreekJet said:

I think it’s similar to scoring 20 points in basketball in that it needs some context. If you chuck up 35 shots and your team loses its not a good game. 
 

Same thing with QBs. If you throw for 300 on 50 pass attempts it probably means your team losing the game.

Dallas - won 

Raiders - won

Washington - won

youre an absolute joke of a troll, pathetic attempts at it really

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11 hours ago, GreenCow said:

Just one fans opinion.

Not just one Jet fans opinion.  I also think Allen is better than Darnold up to this point.  I also believe it is very early in their careers and the Jets not being as good as the Bills right now also skews the analysis of the QBs.

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18 minutes ago, slats said:

So I guess if 300 yard games are bad, averaging 185 yards a game must signal greatness... ? 

Even tho they play the same position I think comparing Sam to Josh Allen is almost an apples to oranges argument 

 

Josh Allen gets called a poor man’s Cam Newton because he’s not a traditional qb he’s almost like a running back who throws

 

Sam is more of a traditional qb

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7 minutes ago, GKnight83 said:

Not just one Jet fans opinion.  I also think Allen is better than Darnold up to this point.  I also believe it is very early in their careers and the Jets not being as good as the Bills right now also skews the analysis of the QBs.

Agreed.

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13 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

Same thing with QBs. If you throw for 300 on 50 pass attempts it probably means your team losing the game. On the same hand if you throw for 185 under 25 pass attempts with no turnovers that’s likely a winning performance 

Yeah, and if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass when it hopped. 

Neither of those scenarios have anything to do with what is being debated.

 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

1.  no one is hating on Allen.  Saying hes inaccurate and misses throws is a fact, its not hating.

2.  There isnt a throw Sam cant make.  Heres the big fail, yes Allen has a gun and has the stronger arm but Sam has a really strong arm, both do. Sam can make every throw a QB needs to make, the extra zip adds little to anyones game.  Watching one Sams game at USC they were saying his arm strength would put him in the top 5% of the NFL and thats about it.  It was said that Sam was clocked at 60 mph at USC, Baker was 60, Allen 68 mph.  Better than most and more than enough.  Its the only comparison Allen wins.  

3.  The Penny reference if we're talking Pennys mind, thats doesnt need to called a compliment, we all know it is.  But given the big arm vs noodle arm its kind of what id expect from you

I wasn’t talking about Penny’s arm. I never said Sam has a noodle arm. In fact I said earlier in the thread that the arm strength thing is overblown.

That being said, there are a couple throws I’ve seen Allen do on ESPN that there is no freaking way Sam is pulling off.

That’s not a nock on Sam. Outside of Mahomes maybe, I don’t think there is any QB that is pulling them off.

They were insanely tight window throws that if there was even 1% less power, it’s intercepted instead of completed.

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9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, and if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump its ass when it hopped. 

Neither of those scenarios have anything to do with what is being debated.

 

Actually it has everything to do with what was being debated.

We have been talking about how passing yardage relates to wins and losses.

No offense, but this entire thread you have had trouble following the conversation.

On a previous page, you didn’t even realize that I was discussing with another poster about data points of people and analysts who believe in Allen. Even though it was clearly written in black and white.

Then at another point you tried to correlate YPA to checkdowns, before I had to correct you on that. 

Come on man. Just stop.

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33 minutes ago, slats said:

So I guess if 300 yard games are bad, averaging 185 yards a game must signal greatness... ? 

That’s not how logic works.

But again, no one said throwing for 300 is necessarily bad.

Its simply that when a QB has to throw for 300, the team is likely losing and that’s why they’re throwing so much.

Therefore, 300 yards isn’t some goal that QB’s need to aspire to.

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2 minutes ago, GreenCow said:

Actually it has everything to do with what was being debated.

This entire thread you have had trouble following the conversation.

On the last page you didn’t even realize we were talking about data points of people who believe in Allen, even though it was clearly written in black and white.

Its like a moving target the debate keeps changing with you.

And its gotten extremely boring at this point.

 

 

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