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ESPN+ Article has Jets ranked as the worst roster in NFL


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On 8/9/2020 at 8:38 AM, bitonti said:

When George Fant is riding the pine because he's not a rt, the value of Conklin will become apparent

As for blowing out the cap No one is asking for that. It's fair to expect then to spend to the floor and 2 our every 4 years they don't. They trade Adams and pay cj mosely 20 million dollars for 1 half of football over 2 years. They splash in fa to get up to the floor. They should just fund the roster 96 percent consistently. Instead of cycling between 88 percent and 96 percent to get above 92 percent floor

Or put it another way there's nothing irresponsible about spending 98 percent of the cap every season. The jets owners just choose not to

And fans like sperm treat the unused spend as their own. Like wood is going to share the extra space.

 


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it's a little early to say whether or not fant is worth the money.  and it's not like they blew out the cap to get him.  imo until this team is truly ready for prime time, they shouldn't be blowing the cap out for free agents.  and by truly ready i mean having made the playoffs or won the division and showed some good consistent winning for a couple of seasons.  the thing too is that every season the jets will need to determine if their own free agents are worth re-signing to multi year contracts.  those contracts will automatically drive down the available cap space.

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23 hours ago, bitonti said:

SE this is cherry picking data. If we look at the 4 year cycles of the CBA they have "Splash" years on players like Bell and Mosely to get them over the floor, which they were below for the other few years. looking at the splash year and saying "hey they spend" is incongruous with the reality of 4 year windows. 

they signed a new CBA and this is a below floor year, clearly. maybe next year too with a splash in year 3 and 4 to get them over the floor. They did this with Idzik they did it with Mac.  

im not like some sort of math genius but the spend is like 88% at the moment the floor is like 92% and a great deal of the "cap space" found by the Mosely opt out was used to cut Quincy and shift 33. 

the philosophy I have a problem with is you end up paying mercenaries like Trumaine Johnson while actual good players like 33 never see a second deal. They haven't given a second deal out since 2014 Mo wilkerson. They haven't been competitive for a decade. 

it's better to just spend at 95% every year or whatever but they don't do that. It's feast and famine and when they go feasting they go to the all you can eat buffet

I'm not going to say they haven't tried for 10 years. but they stopped REALLY trying about 8 years ago after the 2012 election, Woody checked out and has not cared since. When he first got here he was trying tor build WSS and loved Curtis Martin, now he's not even in the country. they are not cheap per se but they are cash poor compared to the other owners and most of their personal wealth is tied up in owning the Jets themselves

you don't have to believe me, the whole roster is on 1 year deals and they are like 30 mil under the cap according to Jason's site 

We haven't had good QB play since Chad went down.  In spite of that we spent our way to two AFC finals behind FA signings and one solid OL draft and the drafting of Revis.  

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54 minutes ago, Biggs said:

We haven't had good QB play since Chad went down.  In spite of that we spent our way to two AFC finals behind FA signings and one solid OL draft and the drafting of Revis.  

dude that was a decade ago 

57 minutes ago, rangerous said:

it's a little early to say whether or not fant is worth the money.   

he's a natural left tackle who has refused to/can't play right tackle his entire career 

the Jets gave Fant 10 million to play right tackle 

 

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23 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not necessarily. It's that you should never play a mercenary like Trumaine Johnson, not mercenaries in general. As I recall you had no such reservations re-signing Revis in 2015.

Plus you're doing the far worse cherry-picking by suggesting we need to retain our own because that's somehow better. Then you willfully wave off as insignificant our extending UFA Mo Wilkerson - which you were in favor of - like it's some rarity for one's own player to mail it in after getting such a huge deal, while pointing at Trumaine Johnson as though it's the norm for another's UFA.  Now THAT is some hindsight cherry-picking.

Some UFA signings are good; some are not. Some are great; some are awful. Duh. There's no particular rule. Whether or not you believe Adams will coast after getting $20MM+/year - which is a patently ludicrous amount for a safety, and quadruple-ludicrous when factoring in the waved-off pair of 1st rounders for such a privilege - you don't actually know any more about future coasting than you did with Mo, and won't know until it happens. 

The best reason to extend Mo but not Adams is his trade value was not as high despite playing a demonstrably higher value position; anything more than that is using hindsight to rationalize. The team should have known what it was getting into because they knew the player. I think the team similarly made its decision on Adams, whom I suspect was not so popular in the locker room as their self-appointed leader of men who generally only talked about himself and his leaderism and how much money he should get for it.

It's one thing to sign an 8-figure/year safety as a UFA or a lower-level trade (Collins, Thomas, Amos, Mathieu, etc); it's quite another to surrender a pair of 1st round picks on top of it. 

And a big part of the reason they're so far under the cap right now is because they got a windfall of cap space after players - mostly Mosley - opted out, which put the space back for this season. Other than that, you're criticizing spending on a Trumaine Johnson level FA in the past while also criticizing for leaving cap room for not singing the next Trumaine Johnson level FA now.  

I agree with you that the Fant vs Conklin was probably a judgment call on the player more than cap room, but - like you - I think it's a poor decision. With a lot of these guys I think they like to look like the smartest guy in the room by making a move most scratch their heads at and then having it pan out bigtime. The problem is it usually doesn't, which is what makes them headscratcher moves in the first place. Unless he was unwilling to come here Conklin at $14MM/year over Fant at $9MM is the epitome of a no-brainer. So at least there's some common ground ;) .

It also comes back to the question, who exactly have the Jets lost in FA due to an alleged refusal to spend?  Last one that could possibly be argued would be Damon Harrison back in 2016, which of course was also a direct result of deciding that Wilkerson was the one they were paying instead at the time.

Even with Harrison, he made it through 2.5 years of his 5-year contract with the Giants before they traded him away, while Harrison's replacement Steve McLendon is still here (having just received an extension himself), playing well, and beloved by the team, all at a much lower cost.

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1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

It also comes back to the question, who exactly have the Jets lost in FA due to an alleged refusal to spend?  Last one that could possibly be argued would be Damon Harrison back in 2016, which of course was also a direct result of deciding that Wilkerson was the one they were paying instead at the time.

Even with Harrison, he made it through 2.5 years of his 5-year contract with the Giants before they traded him away, while Harrison's replacement Steve McLendon is still here (having just received an extension himself), playing well, and beloved by the team, all at a much lower cost.

Sheldon Richardson -- traded him instead of extending past his 5th yr option

Harrison I agree was the decision at that time (him vs. Mo) but it was only Maccagnan's lack of foresight that let it get to that point in the first place. It's beyond a dead horse by now, and Harrison was a great run stopper not a great everything, but he should have been extended a year before his walk year at the latest. It's likely Snacks - a one-dimensional run-stopping NT who was off the field for probably half the snaps - could have been locked up in the $4-5MM range after the 2014 season.

Undrafted and entering his age 27 season with just 2 full seasons under his belt, he'd made no money at that point (cumulative $1.4MM before taxes from 2012-2014), with a non-guaranteed RFA tender of $2.4MM for the upcoming season. As happens to more players than the other way around, Snacks could have lost it all if he suffered a career-altering injury in 2015 would have been a 28 year-old with no long term financial security, whose only known skill in life is now useless. It wouldn't have taken anywhere near $9MM (and maybe not even half that) to extend him long term before his 2015 RFA season started.

So there was no reason to choose one or the other between him & Mo, and even Macc knew enough to not slap Snacks with a $16MM franchise tag when he was still floating maybe $5-6MM/year long-term deal offers his way before the Giants shocked everyone with their $9MM offer. It's easy to forget now how ridiculous everyone thought that amount to be at the time, because even as a UFA his market was expected in that $6MM range, with even many Jets fans suggesting he was worth a million or two less than that per season.

But that was his M-O. Never offer anyone a contract extension until they'd finished playing their last game under the prior contract (either after the season was over, or if the player was on IR for the remaining weeks like Winters & Enunwa). I can understand some putting faith where it was misplaced, but will never understand any Jets fan's defense of that idiot. A child could have done an equal or better job. 

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On 8/14/2020 at 12:58 PM, bitonti said:

 

Fant is a natural left tackle who has refused to/can't play right tackle his entire career 

the Jets gave Fant 10 million to play right tackle 

 

 

This is the 1 blip on the JD radar screen

timing was after getting left at the alter by his first 2 attempted OL signings

money is low for a LT and much higher than the demand for Fant as a RT was.

JD obviously believes in Fant performing much better than his current resume shows

Seems like he just had to make 100% sure he had a backup plan at OT ready before the draft if whatever O-lineman JD took did not perform well

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1 hour ago, ljr said:

 

This is the 1 blip on the JD radar screen

timing was after getting left at the alter by his first 2 attempted OL signings

money is low for a LT and much higher than the demand for Fant as a RT was.

JD obviously believes in Fant performing much better than his current resume shows

Seems like he just had to make 100% sure he had a backup plan at OT ready before the draft if whatever O-lineman JD took did not perform well

 

Yep.  At the time, the team didn't have a LT, and there were no LT's on the market.  In that light, the signing made sense.  JD clearly felt Fant was a better option than Beachum at that point in their respective careers.  And even after drafting Becton, having an OT capable of playing either OT spot is important.

Conklin is a pretty lousy pass blocker so anyone arguing that he could play that spot is kidding themselves.

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