Jetsfan80 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said: Why have a trial at all? We should just sentence him now. Hi livelihood is gone, that's nothing. His freedom needs to be tossed into the volcano immediately. Why don't we just do away with trails altogether for everything? Just let everyone know that someone has been accused of something and let the mob have their way with them. BTW, what is Believe All Women? Reasoned and measured? Not knee jerky in the least, amirite? It's based on statistics. A 2010 US study (link below) suggests only 2-10 % of rape/sexual assault accusations are fake. https://web.archive.org/web/20180101025446/https://icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf The FBI puts that number at 8 %. Moreover, 35 % of sexual assault allegations never even get reported (US Bureau of Justice), demonstrating many women are afraid to go to the police with it for a variety of reasons. That's sad, and this myth that there are tons of fake rape accusations might play a part in it. It's far more dangerous for society to assume these women are lying than the alternative. Naturally, I'm not suggesting the legal process shouldn't play out. But I'm not judge or jury. I'm just reading the same articles as you. I have no problem making the assumption that when sexual assault is charged, the dude probably did something wrong. Coming to a kneejerk defense of these men usually doesn't age well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said: It's based on statistics. A 2010 US study (link below) suggests only 2-10 % of rape/sexual assault accusations are fake. https://web.archive.org/web/20180101025446/https://icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf The FBI puts that number at 8 %. Moreover, 35 % of sexual assault allegations never even get reported (US Bureau of Justice), demonstrating many women are afraid to go to the police with it for a variety of reasons. That's sad, and this myth that there are tons of fake rape accusations might play a part in it. It's far more dangerous for society to assume these women are lying than the alternative. Naturally, I'm not suggesting the legal process shouldn't play out. But I'm not judge or jury. I'm just reading the same articles as you. I have no problem making the assumption that when sexual assault is charged, the dude probably did something wrong. Coming to a kneejerk defense of these men usually doesn't age well. So one out of every 12 men is accused of something he didn't do? You think that's ok? No one is coming to the knee jerk defense of men. You can pat yourself on the back for something else. Any other laws you're okay with skipping the minor detail of a trial on? I'm sure you have a list. One out of twelve is an appalling figure, by the way. You know it is. You'd never be okay with one in twelve of _____________ being _________ (I'm sure there are tons of blanks you can imagine filling in) It's amazing to me how you're willing to sacrifice one in twelve men because rape is under reported as if it's their fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said: Yeah, that's it. People who believe in due process hate all women. You can't make this up. The selective cries of due process is a great dog whistle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, Arsis said: The selective cries of due process is a great dog whistle. I don't know what you just said, but I'm sure it means something and you got that little endorphine cookie from it. That you would backhand call other people nasty names like rape apologist or misogynist because they think that in a free country, one should be presumed innocent until proven guilty is ****ng despicable. I guess we can say that all men that get this worked up over this issue are actually covering up their own guilt over assaults in their past, right? That makes an equal amount of sense as an insinuation and is just as generous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themeangreenkillingmachine Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said: It's based on statistics. A 2010 US study (link below) suggests only 2-10 % of rape/sexual assault accusations are fake. https://web.archive.org/web/20180101025446/https://icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf The FBI puts that number at 8 %. Moreover, 35 % of sexual assault allegations never even get reported (US Bureau of Justice), demonstrating many women are afraid to go to the police with it for a variety of reasons. That's sad, and this myth that there are tons of fake rape accusations might play a part in it. It's far more dangerous for society to assume these women are lying than the alternative. Naturally, I'm not suggesting the legal process shouldn't play out. But I'm not judge or jury. I'm just reading the same articles as you. I have no problem making the assumption that when sexual assault is charged, the dude probably did something wrong. Coming to a kneejerk defense of these men usually doesn't age well. I wonder how much that 8% Goes up when it’s an accusation against a high profile man (celebrity, athlete, politician, or super rich guy)? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said: I wonder how much that 8% Goes up when it’s an accusation against a high profile man (celebrity, athlete, politician, or super rich guy)? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 46 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said: I don't know what you just said, but I'm sure it means something and you got that little endorphine cookie from it. That you would backhand call other people nasty names like rape apologist or misogynist because they think that in a free country, one should be presumed innocent until proven guilty is ****ng despicable. I guess we can say that all men that get this worked up over this issue are actually covering up their own guilt over assaults in their past, right? That makes an equal amount of sense as an insinuation and is just as generous. Again, your dog whistle is a great cover for the sexism. This isn't a court of law. Athletes drive drunk and people sh*t on them. They do drugs and people sh*t on them. Someone beats on or rapes a women and all of a sudden it's "let's wait for the full story everyone has a right to a fair trial" Are you an officer of the court? Do you represent the legislative branch? What does the court of law and due process have to do with you not supporting and defending an alleged woman beater? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, Arsis said: Again, your dog whistle is a great cover for the sexism. Yup, that's you in a nutshell. This sentence. The white knight act is a great cover for the guilty conscience, isn't it? Keep using phrases you just learned last week. Garbage. I know you think you're being a good person, you're actually acting like a piece of sh*t. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 40 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said: Yup, that's you in a nutshell. This sentence. The white knight act is a great cover for the guilty conscience, isn't it? Keep using phrases you just learned last week. Garbage. I know you think you're being a good person, you're actually acting like a piece of sh*t. If you say so. I'm sorry that being confronted by your bias is so upsetting to you. It's the society we live in. We all have unconscious bias. I understand that most of it is ingrained and not purposeful. It just gets really old seeing a forum full of people making fun of black Qb's based on dress/culture or call people they don't approve of gay and defending people only when they abuse women. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Arsis said: If you say so. I'm sorry that being confronted by your bias is so upsetting to you. It's the society we live in. We all have unconscious bias. I understand that most of it is ingrained and not purposeful. It just gets really old seeing a forum full of people making fun of black Qb's based on dress/culture or call people they don't approve of gay and defending people only when they abuse women. Why, has Guice done something else I should be defending him about? I'll google. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said: Why, has Guice done something else I should be defending him about? I'll google. Why do you feel the overwhelming need to defend him at all? Why do you feel the need to defend an accusation against a women? Why is it only against women where you see the need to yell "due process" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, Arsis said: Why do you feel the overwhelming need to defend him at all? Why do you feel the need to defend an accusation against a women? Why is it only against women where you see the need to yell "due process" Have you ever heard me speak about due process before this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 hours ago, themeangreenkillingmachine said: I wonder how much that 8% Goes up when it’s an accusation against a high profile man (celebrity, athlete, politician, or super rich guy)? Not significantly enough to take the side of the accused over the accuser automatically. Gold diggers have plenty of ways to extract money out of a rich athlete. A sexual assault accusation isn't really near the top of that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 22 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said: Yeah, that's it. People who believe in due process hate all women. You can't make this up. These days everybody has an ax to grind. Running out of whet stones. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Athlete allegedly drives drunk = **** him! He should go to jail! Athlete allegedly beats up a woman = wait wait we don't know all the facts! Let's not jump to conclusions! Sad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 36 minutes ago, Arsis said: Athlete allegedly drives drunk = **** him! He should go to jail! Athlete allegedly beats up a woman = wait wait we don't know all the facts! Let's not jump to conclusions! Sad. I actually run into this thing all the time. It is a shame, but the fact is that it is much easier to tell, black and white, that the athlete drove drunk. Hard and fast, BAC is there from the breathalyzer/blood test. It is a shame that the worse crime tends to have a more squishy fact pattern. OTOH, look at La'el Collins. I don't have any problem with the Redskins cutting him. The really isn't a due process issue, and it is their right. The facts in this case are that there were three alleged assaults, the most recent being in April. The Sheriff's office didn't even get the report until July 22. That doesn't really tell me anything about guilt or innocence, but it does make me wonder about how the evidence will play out in a court of law. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 7 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: I don't have any problem with the Redskins cutting him. The really isn't a due process issue, and it is their right. Bingo. A private company can fire you because the boss doesn't like your tie. Due process only applies to getting arrested or some issue with the government. The government is not involved with the firing of a running back by an NFL team, unless he was fired because of his race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 On 8/8/2020 at 6:34 AM, Gastineau Lives said: And if he is cleared in a trial, he gets his job back, right? Not unless the team feels like hiring him back, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 17 hours ago, Arsis said: Athlete allegedly drives drunk = **** him! He should go to jail! Athlete allegedly beats up a woman = wait wait we don't know all the facts! Let's not jump to conclusions! Sad. Kinda tells you where society is headed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 8 hours ago, kelticwizard said: Bingo. A private company can fire you because the boss doesn't like your tie. Due process only applies to getting arrested or some issue with the government. The government is not involved with the firing of a running back by an NFL team, unless he was fired because of his race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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