Jets “deeply involved” in trade talks for Yannick

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Jags beat writer just Tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/JohnReid64/status/1296440431232901122?s=20

Again, I think the leak to Lombardi came from the Yannick camp or perhaps Jacksonville's front office in order to try to get a better bid than the Jets.  Perhaps Ngakoue has reservations about playing for a team that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade (even though I think things are looking up for the future).

It reminds me of the Van Roten situation where the deal was supposedly dead right before it went through. There are two issues afoot: paying Jacksonville and then appeasing Ngakoue’s agent, and it’s the agent that’s whining about this. I’d imagine Douglas is wielding a lot of leverage over him considering Ngakoue’s choices are 1. Remain holding out in Jax with no money coming in and taking fines, or 2. Come play for Gregg Williams on the tag with the promise of a nice extension next January. 

[Lizard King]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It reminds me of the Van Roten situation where the deal was supposedly dead right before it went through. There are two issues afoot: paying Jacksonville and then appeasing Ngakoue’s agent, and it’s the agent that’s whining about this. I’d imagine Douglas is wielding a lot of leverage over him considering Ngakoue’s choices are 1. Remain holding out in Jax with no money coming in and taking fines, or 2. Come play for Gregg Williams on the tag with the promise of a nice extension next January. 

To me, nobody is doubting Gregg Williams because a player will produce what they can given the circumstances under a good coach, All being equal.  . I think what they’re doubting is Douglas writing him a huge check next year. NYJ were big check writers for over a decade because KRL could scout better than they could. That game is clearly circulating around to be over. 

[#27TheDominator]

25 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Jags beat writer just Tweeted this:

https://twitter.com/JohnReid64/status/1296440431232901122?s=20

Again, I think the leak to Lombardi came from the Yannick camp or perhaps Jacksonville's front office in order to try to get a better bid than the Jets.  Perhaps Ngakoue has reservations about playing for a team that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade (even though I think things are looking up for the future).

Wouldn't they leak the Jets offer to try to get a better bid from elsewhere?  I think the Ravens were supposedly offering a 2 and Gus Edwards.

9 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Where in the hell did this narrative that Yannick lacks athleticism come from?  Is it because his 40 time wasn't elite?  I get it, you want Von Miller in his prime, just like I want to date a supermodel.

I've seen enough film to know Yannick's game speed is more than sufficient and he's fully capable of speed rushing off the edge.  He's plenty quick off the line.  The guy makes game changing plays, has a plus motor that you can't coach, and is durable.  That's the kind of guy you want.

I don't think it is speed.  I think it was his agility times that were poor.  He wasn't very big when he tested and he still did not time or jump well. 

[Jetsfan80]

23 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Where in the hell did this narrative that Yannick lacks athleticism come from?  Is it because his 40 time wasn't elite?  I get it, you want Von Miller in his prime, just like I want to date a supermodel.

I've seen enough film to know Yannick's game speed is more than sufficient and he's fully capable of speed rushing off the edge.  He's plenty quick off the line.  The guy makes game changing plays, has a plus motor that you can't coach, and is durable.  That's the kind of guy you want.

Show me his more current numbers, and I'll shut up about it.  Until then, I'll consider it a concern.  

[jetstream23]

8 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

To me, nobody is doubting Gregg Williams because a player will produce what they can given the circumstances under a good coach, All being equal.  . I think what they’re doubting is Douglas writing him a huge check next year. NYJ were big check writers for over a decade because KRL could scout better than they could. That game is clearly circulating around to be over. 

This is a possibility, but how is it any better than what Ngakoue has now?

Jax obviously isn't writing him a big check this year.  As T0m said, he can either sit there holding out and taking fines or start somewhere new in a less toxic situation with at least some kind of promise about the framework of contract value next year and collect $17M.  At worst, Yannick remains in a similar situation but with a team that wants him and is giving up draft capital for him, and he angles towards a second franchise tag that I'd imagine would be somewhere around $20M+ next year.

Ngakoue also recently fired his agent and hopefully now has better representation but I don't know about that.

[jetstream23]

32 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I love the idea of Yannick for a two even if we dump a three year deal on him for big money. Who cares? He’s not Von Miller, but he’s a proven pass rusher that will help Quinnen Williams. You don’t necessarily need 20 sacks out of him, you just need him to make a mess at the LOS on third down. Zero downside to this.

The most disappointing thing about all of this is that Jax doesn't want to pay Yannick because they replaced him with a young, cheaper, and potentially better pass rusher in Josh Allen out of Kentucky.  The same Josh Allen that Macc should have taken at #3 when he took QW (I like QW but the edge rusher was the obvious choice there).  In a sense, Jax did to Ngakoue what the Jets were doing to Jamal in drafting Ashtyn Davis....hedging themselves a bit, although Jax got to see Allen on the field for a year to know for sure that he can fill Ngakoue's shoes a bit.

 

[jayrad01]

Some interesting talk on Yannick

[jetscrazey]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Show me his more current numbers, and I'll shut up about it.  Until then, I'll consider it a concern.  

Dude, Yannick is in year 5.  Throw the combine stats out.  Watch some tape and go by what your eyes tell you.  He's 4th in the league in QB hits in the past 4 years.  He's got a plus motor that doesn't show up your combine profile either.  Also, that Jacksonville defensive front is stacked and he's had to share the wealth with Calais Campbell, Dante Fowler, and Josh Allen, which has capped his sack numbers.  He had 12 in 2017.

[Lizard King]

12 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

This is a possibility, but how is it any better than what Ngakoue has now?

Jax obviously isn't writing him a big check this year.  As T0m said, he can either sit there holding out and taking fines or start somewhere new in a less toxic situation with at least some kind of promise about the framework of contract value next year and collect $17M.  At worst, Yannick remains in a similar situation but with a team that wants him and is giving up draft capital for him, and he angles towards a second franchise tag that I'd imagine would be somewhere around $20M+ next year.

Ngakoue also recently fired his agent and hopefully now has better representation but I don't know about that.

Don’t disagree. Just hope that we are starting to be seen in the same professional capacity as guys like tom coughlin. Was more excited about that. 

[Savage69]

21 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Wouldn't they leak the Jets offer to try to get a better bid from elsewhere?  I think the Ravens were supposedly offering a 2 and Gus Edwards.

I don't think it is speed.  I think it was his agility times that were poor.  He wasn't very big when he tested and he still did not time or jump well. 

In other news from the age of 30-35 Abe had 66 sacks..

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Dude, Yannick is in year 5.  Throw the combine stats out.  Watch some tape and go by what your eyes tell you.  He's 4th in the league in QB hits in the past 4 years.  He's got a plus motor that doesn't show up your combine profile either.  Also, that Jacksonville defensive front is stacked and he's had to share the wealth with Calais Campbell, Dante Fowler, and Josh Allen, which has capped his sack numbers.  He had 12 in 2017.

"Plus motor" = Can't get by on athleticism.  And the stacked Jacksonville line doesn't help your argument, it hurts it.  

Let's see how that motor runs after he gets paid.  Athleticism still matters 5 years in because guys who lack it don't last very long in this league.  We need to think about it very carefully before committing a 4-year deal to a guy like him.

Demarcus Lawrence, with a similar draft profile, just got paid $21M to record 5 sacks in a full 16-game effort last season.  That's what I'm concerned about.

If we want to send Jacksonville a 3rd for a rental and see how it goes here prior to paying him, I suppose I can begrudgingly get behind it.  We desperately need an EDGE rusher.  I'm just not super impressed with a guy who only has 2.5 more sacks than Jordan Jenkins over the last 2 seasons.  And the best bet is to try to find our own EDGE guy in the draft.  Not go out and send high picks for a mercenary malcontent.  

[jcass10]

I think I'd throw Jacksonville a 3rd rounder this year, and a 2nd or 3rd rounder next year contingent on him signing a long term contract. 

That would allow the Jets to use their 1st rounders on WR and OL (Jamar Chase and Alex Leatherwood?). And then use their 2nd and 3rd rounders on RB and CB.

I would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

13 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

[jetstream23]

7 minutes ago, jcass10 said:

I think I'd throw Jacksonville a 3rd rounder this year, and a 2nd or 3rd rounder next year contingent on him signing a long term contract. 

That would allow the Jets to use their 1st rounders on WR and OL (Jamar Chase and Alex Leatherwood?). And then use their 2nd and 3rd rounders on RB and CB.

I would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

A contingent trade would definitely make the most sense.  Something similar to what the Jets and Giants did for Leo.  If Leo is signed to a longterm contract that 5th rounder in 2021 would have been a 3rd I believe.

A 3rd now and then another pick contingent on Ngakoue being signed to an extension makes sense.

[choon328]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Is it cold in New Jersey this time of the year?  

Or are they wearing those winter coats because theyre coming from Florida? 

I think we've established that this wasn't real.  I think reading would help you. 

[T0mShane]

43 minutes ago, Lizard King said:

To me, nobody is doubting Gregg Williams because a player will produce what they can given the circumstances under a good coach, All being equal.  . I think what they’re doubting is Douglas writing him a huge check next year. NYJ were big check writers for over a decade because KRL could scout better than they could. That game is clearly circulating around to be over. 

Word. But, I’d imagine the case with Douglas isn’t that he’s cheap, it’s that he knows the difference between expensive positions and those where you can save money. He’s been around long enough to know you pay for edge rushers and QBs, but not safeties. I hope.

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, jcass10 said:

I think I'd throw Jacksonville a 3rd rounder this year, and a 2nd or 3rd rounder next year contingent on him signing a long term contract. 

That would allow the Jets to use their 1st rounders on WR and OL (Jamar Chase and Alex Leatherwood?). And then use their 2nd and 3rd rounders on RB and CB.

I would sign up for that in a heartbeat.

Jacksonville wouldn’t want to incentivize the Jets not re-signing a combustible guy like Ngakoue, I’d imagine. 

[ScarletKnight89]

At some point one of these GM's we hire is going to need to address the fact that we are never good at the premium positions on an NFL football team. We need a legitimate pass rush. We never have one. I'm not saying Yannick is or isn't the guy we should be targeting but this is such an important need on a football team. Jordan Jenkins and Terrell Basham are useful players. But they aren't difference makers. 

[jcass10]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Jacksonville wouldn’t want to incentivize the Jets not re-signing a combustible guy like Ngakoue, I’d imagine. 

I agree from a Jax standpoint, but if I was the Jets this is what I'd be pushing since he is on the tag and cant be re-signed until the end of the year. Very similar to the Leonard Williams trade this past year.

I dont think I'd offer a third and future second for a one year rental. But like you said, I dont think Jacksonville would go for it.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, Sammybighead said:

It’s impossible to keep most big name trades quiet. Where there is smoke, there’s fire, always.

Sometimes...it's just smoke.

[Philc1]

34 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The most disappointing thing about all of this is that Jax doesn't want to pay Yannick because they replaced him with a young, cheaper, and potentially better pass rusher in Josh Allen out of Kentucky.  The same Josh Allen that Macc should have taken at #3 when he took QW (I like QW but the edge rusher was the obvious choice there).  In a sense, Jax did to Ngakoue what the Jets were doing to Jamal in drafting Ashtyn Davis....hedging themselves a bit, although Jax got to see Allen on the field for a year to know for sure that he can fill Ngakoue's shoes a bit.

 

You mean the same Josh Allen 90% of this messageboard said had “no pass rush moves” and “just ran around Tackles”?

[Philc1]

7 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

At some point one of these GM's we hire is going to need to address the fact that we are never good at the premium positions on an NFL football. We need a legitimate pass rush. We never have one. I'm not saying Yannick is or isn't the guy we should be targeting but this is such an important need on a football team. Jordan Jenkins and Terrell Basham are useful players. But they aren't difference makers. 

Jenkins is ok if you have an actual pass rusher opposite him.  We dont

 

And probably never will until 3-4 regimes from now and after Woody and Chrissy both die of old age

[choon328]

35 minutes ago, jayrad01 said:

Some interesting talk on Yannick

Marvin Jones droning on and on makes this unwatchable

[GreenReaper]

I don't see JD signing anyone right now to a long term contract. 

He has two 1st round picks and five through rounds 1-3 for next year.  He will focus on Edge in the draft for sure.  Hopefully  Edge and WR  are addressed with those two #1s. 

[jetscrazey]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

"Plus motor" = Can't get by on athleticism.

 

If you really think that's what "plus motor" means, then it's clear I'm talking to someone who doesn't know football very well.

[Lizard King]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Word. But, I’d imagine the case with Douglas isn’t that he’s cheap, it’s that he knows the difference between expensive positions and those where you can save money. He’s been around long enough to know you pay for edge rushers and QBs, but not safeties. I hope.

I don’t think he’s cheap. He’s smart and a good allocator of Capital as you said. 

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, GreenReaper said:

I don't see JD signing anyone right now to a long term contract. 

He has two 1st round picks and five through rounds 1-3 for next year.  He will focus on Edge in the draft for sure.  Hopefully  Edge and WR  are addressed with those two #1s. 

Ok so sign Ryan and or Clowney to a one year deal

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

If you really think that's what "plus motor" means, then it's clear I'm talking to someone who doesn't know football very well.

No, its just very clear you see what you want to see when it comes to Ngakoue.  Just as many in this thread are basing his performance against the Jets' historically bad Offensive Line to judge his talent level.

Ignore the rest of my previous post at your own peril, I guess.  

[ljr]

16 hours ago, Titan24 said:

Who?

 

personally I want Allen Robinson ... s*cks a new deal can't be worked out right now ... when are we allowed to negotiate with guys on other teams again? ... maybe something at the trade deadline ?

[section314]

18 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Word. But, I’d imagine the case with Douglas isn’t that he’s cheap, it’s that he knows the difference between expensive positions and those where you can save money. He’s been around long enough to know you pay for edge rushers and QBs, but not safeties. I hope.

Saw it first hand with Suggs and Graham.

[T0mShane]

17 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

At some point one of these GM's we hire is going to need to address the fact that we are never good at the premium positions on an NFL football. We need a legitimate pass rush. We never have one. I'm not saying Yannick is or isn't the guy we should be targeting but this is such an important need on a football team. Jordan Jenkins and Terrell Basham are useful players. But they aren't difference makers. 

I think the positive is that Basham and Jenkins, at times, have been disruptive players under Gregg, so that bodes well for a guy like Ngakoue who is clearly better than both of them. As @Jetsfan80 points out, Ngakoue isn’t a typical freak EDGE, but he’s been pretty effective without elite athleticism. Plug him in here and there’s no reason to think he can’t be an improvement on the stiffs we’ve had.

[jetscrazey]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the positive is that Basham and Jenkins, at times, have been disruptive players under Gregg, so that bodes well for a guy like Ngakoue who is clearly better than both of them. As @Jetsfan80 points out, Ngakoue isn’t a typical freak EDGE, but he’s been pretty effective without elite athleticism. Plug him in here and there’s no reason to think he can’t be an improvement on the stiffs we’ve had.

@Jetsfan80 is waiting for Reggie White to come along.  He should keep holding his breath it’s gonna happen any day.....

[Warmbrother]

No deal without a long term contract.

I don't mind paying this talent, but to waste a 2nd round pick just to have him tease us with skills in a year that we arent going to the superbowl before splitting is absolutely foolish

[Greensleeves]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Show me his more current numbers, and I'll shut up about it.  Until then, I'll consider it a concern.  

Can you compare those with Vernon Gholston's numbers? Just interested in how much actually playing football matters.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Can you compare those with Vernon Gholston's numbers? Just interested in how much actually playing football matters.

No one ever said being a great athlete automatically means you'll end up an effective pass rusher.  It merely leaves the door ajar for it to happen. 

Very few EDGE guys lacking athleticism have been successful in this league, especially not over a lengthy period of time.

But to answer your question, Gholston scored well except in one key category:  3-Cone.  3-Cone is the most important test for EDGE rushers.  He was merely average when it came to agility.