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GreekJet

The Giants fixed Leonard Williams?

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Almost Sacks is about to learn how to finish them in Year 6.

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Will they get production that comes anywhere near matching his pricetag?

 

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The next Reggie White seems to need a lot more development time than the original Reggie White.

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35 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Don't we hear this about Leonard Williams every year?

Indeed. Leo like Chad Hansen excels this time of year. 

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36 minutes ago, mrcoops said:

The next Reggie White seems to need a lot more development time than the original Reggie White.

The next Reggie White is Q. Williams. 

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4 minutes ago, TNJet said:

The next Reggie White is Q. Williams. 

He's the next next Reggie White.

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26 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Reminds me of when we heard about Chad Pennington increasing arm strength every off-season.

Do you mean to tell me that all the articles detailing Chad heavily training in martial arts because arm strength really comes from the legs and hips were inaccurate? 

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5 minutes ago, TNJet said:

The next Reggie White is Q. Williams. 

He worked out this offseason. We are all duly quite impressed. May even make an appearance in the goal line package. 

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He'll lead the NFC East in "almost sacks" next season and get an extension out of Gettleman.  

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1 minute ago, JetFreak89 said:

Do you mean to tell me that all the articles detailing Chad heavily training in martial arts because arm strength really comes from the legs and hips were inaccurate? 

And footwork.  Don't forget about footwork.  Camp reports for years seemed to suggest minor adjustments in his footwork would lead to him launching rockets out there.

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25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's amazing thinking about how much top-end draft capital we sunk into DT/DE (and the Defense as a whole), and how little all those high picks really got us.

2008 - Vernon Gholston DE, 1st Round, 6th Pick - Bust

2010 - Kyle Wilson, CB, 1st Round, 29th Pick - Bust

2011 - Muhammad Wilkerson, DE, 1st Round, 30th pick - 2 good years in 7 (10.5 and 12 Sacks)

2012 - Quinton Coples, DE, 1st Round, 16th Pick - Bust

2013 - Dee Milliner, CB, 1st Round, 9th Pick - Bust

2013 - Sheldon Richardson, DE, 1st Round, 13th Pick - 1 good year in 4 (8 sacks), nutbar.

2014 -  Calvin Pryor, S, 1st Round, 18th Pick - Bust

2015 - Leonard Williams, DE, 1st Round, 6th Pick - Decent Run Stopper, Bust as a Pass Rusher (1x 7.0 Sack year, rest below 5).

2016 -  Darron Lee, LB, 1st Round, 20th Pick - JAG at best, gone after 3 seasons.

2017 - Jamal Adams, S, 1st Round, 6th Pick - All-Pro (more as a LB/DE than S) & Malcontent, netting a bounty of high draft picks when traded early in first contract.  

2019 - Quinnen Williams, DT, 1st Round, 3rd Pick - TBD, first year was basically an average non-entity.

When people wonder why I am such a hardcore "Draft Offense" guy, it because the modern NFL is driven by Offense, not Defense, and we've been almost uniquely investing high-end draft capital, over and over and over again, trying to get a Pass Rusher most of all, and failing miserably.  One very good player over 12 drafts (Adams) who hated it here so much he forced his way out after only a few seasons.  Two flash-in-the-pan Pass Rushers (Richardson and Wilkerson), both of which ended badly.  And a bagful of busts and bad picks.

This is why I say the Defense had it's chance.  I want to see 11 #1 picks spent of OFFENSE over the next 12 years, and see how THAT works out for a change.  You know, maybe we'll score a few points!

 

Of course, if we REALLY want to weep, we could list all the WR's we've drafted over this same period of time, lol.  A horror show, but at least that horror is busted 4th rounders.....not busted 1st rounders, I guess.

 

 

 

All things being equal, yes, it makes far more sense to err on the side of investing in offense over defense.

But this would all look very differently if we had made GOOD picks on defense.  

Imagine if we'd have taken Calais Campbell in 2008 with our 2nd round pick, rather than trading up for Dustin Keller?

What if we walked away from the 2010 draft with NaVorro Bowman and Geno Atkins instead of Vlad Ducasse and Joe McKnight?

If we had taken Cameron Hayward (pick 31) instead of Muhammad Wilkerson (pick 30) in 2011, we'd certainly be in a different place.  

We could have still taken a pass rusher in 2012.  But instead of Coples, how about Chandler Jones, who went 5 picks later?

What if we'd have taken EDGE DeMarcus Lawrence in 2014 instead of Calvin Pryor, or even someone like Deone Buchanan or Ha Ha Clinton-Dix?

What if we took CB Marcus Peters instead of Leonard Williams at 6 in 2015?  Or traded down and later grabbed someone like Danielle Hunter?

There was plenty of good defensive talent in 2016 we could have ended up with instead of taking Darron Lee or Christian Hackenberg.  Myles Jack, Yannick Ngakoue, Kevin Byard, Chris Jones, Kenny Clark and Leonard Floyd come to mind.  

The 2017 draft class was historically great when it comes to offensive talent, but there were other key defensive pieces we could have gone with rather than taking back to back Safeties.  Tre'Davious White and T.J. Watt being the top options.  And if we really needed to take a Safety, Eddie Jackson was readily available in Round 3.  

Losing one more game in 2018 could have landed us Nick Bosa instead of Quinnen Williams in 2019.  OR, we could have taken Josh Allen or Ed Oliver.  

 

It's not so simple to say that taking offense over defense would have solved our problems over the years.  It's all about making the RIGHT picks.  As much as those bad picks on defense killed the franchise, we were also hurt by making some truly awful offensive picks over the years:  Hackenberg, Jace Amaro, Stephen Hill (over Alshon Jeffery), Jalen Saunders, Shaq Evans, Devin Smith, ArDarius Stewart, Chad Hansen....the list is seemingly endless.

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17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not so simple to say that taking offense over defense would have solved our problems over the years.  It's all about making the RIGHT picks.  As much as those bad picks on defense killed the franchise, we were also hurt by making some truly awful offensive picks over the years:  Hackenberg, Jace Amaro, Stephen Hill (over Alshon Jeffery), Jalen Saunders, Shaq Evans, Devin Smith, ArDarius Stewart, Chad Hansen....the list is seemingly endless.

Imagine if we'd ended up with Laquan Treadwell, Kevin White and Josh Doctson!  POWERHOUSE!

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Leo would have been much more effective imo if we and any team using him played a 4-3 Defense all the time.

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2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Reminds me of when we heard about Chad Pennington increasing arm strength every off-season.

 Well, he did. Unfortunately it was his left arm. His left arm got very strong because he couldn't use his right arm all that much....

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2 hours ago, ryu79 said:

Indeed. Leo like Chad Hansen excels this time of year. 

Don’t you dare put Leo on Chad’s level like that. 
 

shame on you!

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He'll lead the NFC East in "almost sacks" next season and get an extension out of Gettleman.  

Leo and Pennington were always part of the OTA Hall of Fame. Lol

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Just now, MindOverMatter said:

I think he's right, I expect Leonard to double his sack total from 2019.

So he'll get 3?

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