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Why the Jets are at the bottom of every list:


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It's pretty simple:  The Jets record over the last 4 years:

2016-  5-11

2017    5-11

2018   4-12

2019   7-9

The so-called experts base all future predictions on past events, and in looking at the recent history, it's easy to be lazy and just say: the Jets stink, and they will continue to stink. 

The truth is that until the Jets can prove to the league and to the rest of the world that they are not a bunch of losers, they will continue to be viewed as perpetual losers.

As a hopeful and glass half-full Jets fan, I try to see the things that the team has done to improve, and look at potential talent and believe that this talent will transform the team this year and buck the trend of the last 4 years.

I believe that although the Jets continue to have holes due to poor drafting and poor signings of the past, that the recent signings and recent draft will move the needle for the Jets in a positive direction.

The thought is that the Jets have the worst roster in the league, but that thinking is based on the past, and has no bearing on what the roster will prove this year.

If you want to say that the Jets had the worst roster at the end of last year, then I would say that is not true, but still not a great roster by any means.

To say that the jets have the worst roster right now, is just lazy and not analyzing what the Jets might have in terms of the new talent that they have acquired, and the players who come into this season healthy and ready to contribute.  

They have the worst roster, the worst cornerbacks, the worst defensive line, the worst wide receivers.  To me, its all garbage.  '

Do you know when you can say how good or how bad this team is?  After the games have been played, when the year is over, that's when.

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It's lazy analysis.

Anyone watching the Jets the past few seasons knows that the weakest link on the team by far has been the offensive line.  They have been a bottom 5 unit year in and year out for the past 4+ years, and last year was probably the worst offensive line play I have seen in my 3 decades of watching NFL football.

The unit has gone through a complete revamp this offseason.  Are they better?  It's too early to say definitively, but it's not unreasonable to realistically expect some improvement.

I understand that this is an optimistic view of the Jets, but they have a young, rising quarterback, a revamped offensive line, and they are going into year 2 of the same system on both sides of the ball.  2020 been a crazy year.  Brady is finally out of the division, the Pats lost a few keys players, and the division appears to be up for grabs for the first time in a long time.  An extra playoff spot has been added in both conferences this year.

Are the Jets serious contenders?  Of course not, but would you have said the same in 2009?  If they can play some meaningful games in December and get hot at the right time, anything can happen.  If there was ever a year where teams come out of left field to surprise everyone, this is it.

Let's go!

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and?  the record speaks for itself.  we see all of these all star players when, in fact teams make their all stars.  sure there are many players who are capable of starring on any team but most will rely on their team mates and coaches scheming to strut their stuff.  right now the jets, by way of their bad record, just don't have the internal persona to be respected.  they will get that when they finally do start playing well consistently and there is every reason to think gase/williams will be able to get them there.

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As a Jets fan I can admit to falling in love with Lam Jones, Blair Thomas, Johny Mitchell, Bryan Thomas, Dwayne Thomas, Gholston, Couples, etc, etc, etc.

The pros aren't fans, they can be detached from our reality which as fans is fantasy.  

Last year people were attacking Gase because we lost to Miami and the Bengals.  Watching both of those games I thought both teams had more overall talent.  It didn't surprise me at all.  It wasn't coaching it was the entire product. 

When I was 14 two of the greatest NY sporting events happened.  The Jets winning the SB against huge odds was actually much less surprising to me than the season the miracle Mets had.  The Jets in 68 were staked.  The Mets came out of nowhere in the second half of the season and when a black cat ran up the sidelines in a game against the Cubs, the magic was confirmed.  Turns out all those young pitchers bloomed at the same time and a couple of veterans had great years and timely hits.

Nobody knows what we have until it plays out.  Hard to see this team as staked.  At best we have a couple of players step up and surprise.  In this league there isn't a lot that separates 6 and 10 from 10 and 6.  The ball isn't round.  It's not unreasonable for people who aren't fans of the Jets to see a bad roster.  It's not unreasonable for fans to see a couple of guys stepping up and the ball bouncing our way a few times.

It's not a very good team but in the NFL a couple of not very good teams get to the dance every year.  It's a process and this is really year one of Douglas putting his stamp on the team.

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I was 12. Throw in the Knicks for good measure. It's been a long, painful road.

But I love your main thought: the difference between 10-6 and 6-10 is maybe seven points per game, and the timing of those points. With a merely average OL, why can't this team make up that gap? With no major coaching/system changes, that will help in a crazed off/pre season. Chances are low that we replicate last season's avalanche of injuries. I think we are no worse than 9-7.

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3 minutes ago, Bungaman said:

I was 12. Throw in the Knicks for good measure. It's been a long, painful road.

But I love your main thought: the difference between 10-6 and 6-10 is maybe seven points per game, and the timing of those points. With a merely average OL, why can't this team make up that gap? With no major coaching/system changes, that will help in a crazed off/pre season. Chances are low that we replicate last season's avalanche of injuries. I think we are no worse than 9-7.

The only reason I haven't had a successful suicide is when I sit down to write the note, I can't decide which is worse.  The fact that the 3 teams I loved in my youth have sucked for so long or the actual success of Boston teams over the same period.

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Same narrative as the last almost decade now.  No proven coach, no elite players, no winning track record.  Nothing to look at and say "this is our year."  Parcells was the last time the Jets had that magic mojo.  Teams were afraid to play us.  Our team was solid across the board.  Sure we never got over the AFC Championship hump, but we got there and we didn't squeak in, we won the division and confidently marched to the championship game and almost won.  

Ever since then, we've been the underdogs and rightly so.  Sure we got to the playoffs a few times in the 00s and had that back to back AFC championship streak in 09 and 10 (although our roster was pretty great so if anything we underachieved), but we were never the team to beat, like back in 98.  

So what is different in 2020 that should give any Jets fan hope?  A coach that doesn't know how to win? A roster that doesn't have the talent to go head-to-head with the elite teams in the league?  An owner that has been out of the country for the last almost 4 years and even when here, doesn't know how to create a winning football organization?  

Anything can happen from year to year, but unless something radically changes (like hiring a winning coach) we are headed for another decade of .500 or less football, with the unlikely off-chance possibility of an anomalous wild card slot.

Basically there is nothing to look forward to.  Nothing.  So why am I here writing this?  Good question, no good answer.

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10 hours ago, SAR I said:

Every year there is a team in the NFL that surprises the so-called 'experts' while their actual fanbase knows better.

This year, that's us.

And the reason for the anti-Jets narrative is simple-  in the biggest media market in the world, SOJFism sells.  It gets clicks.  It gets likes.  It gets comments.  Playing Jets fans as sad sacks is big business.  Don't fall for it.

SAR I

It's what keeps WFAN in business, and lets them employ the absolute imbeciles they do.

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11 hours ago, Alka said:

To say that the jets have the worst roster right now, is just lazy and not analyzing what the Jets might have in terms of the new talent that they have acquired, and the players who come into this season healthy and ready to contribute.  

They have the worst roster, the worst cornerbacks, the worst defensive line, the worst wide receivers.  To me, its all garbage.  '

Do you know when you can say how good or how bad this team is?  After the games have been played, when the year is over, that's when.

the national media doesn't make stuff up exclusively  - it steals from the beaters

when Connor Hughes tweets the Jets need CBs, the national media notices 

when Becton is ragdolling Jenkins around in a Getty Photo and Jenks is supposedly their best pass rusher the national media notices 

when the WRs in practice are Chris Hogan, Cager and Jeff Smith, the national media notices.

it's not super hard to draw these conclusions on the national level

national media are not evil villains they are underpaid overworked and on a deadline. They don't want to be talking about all 32 cornerback corps yet there they are grinding it out 3am on a Sunday night to make click bait.  It's true they could do MORE research but it's not a place for HOPE

meanwhile, Jets fans are in a Jets silo.

convinced you are correct?

Go look at every other team's roster and then make the case they DON'T have the worst cornerbacks or pass rushers  

Jets fans love  to conclusion shop.

"I want to get to the conclusion this team is good there fore I will only accept facts that build toward that conclusion"

They didn't need to choose between Robby and Perriman they could have had both.  Convinced Adams is the devil? Ok take one of those picks make a deal for a player like Yannick or someone good, don't just punt on the season. 

we agree on one thing the games will prove the reality

but when they get smeared everyone will say it's a good Roster, Darnold is good, Gase has to go. there's a germ of truth there on both sides. Gase does have to go, and it's the worst roster. Darnold is their best player - that's where they are at for better or worse. 

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31 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the national media doesn't make stuff up exclusively  - it steals from the beaters

when Connor Hughes tweets the Jets need CBs, the national media notices 

when Becton is ragdolling Jenkins around in a Getty Photo and Jenks is supposedly their best pass rusher the national media notices 

when the WRs in practice are Chris Hogan, Cager and Jeff Smith, the national media notices.

it's not super hard to draw these conclusions on the national level

national media are not evil villains they are underpaid overworked and on a deadline. They don't want to be talking about all 32 cornerback corps yet there they are grinding it out 3am on a Sunday night to make click bait.  It's true they could do MORE research but it's not a place for HOPE

meanwhile, Jets fans are in a Jets silo.

convinced you are correct?

Go look at every other team's roster and then make the case they DON'T have the worst cornerbacks or pass rushers  

Jets fans love  to conclusion shop.

"I want to get to the conclusion this team is good there fore I will only accept facts that build toward that conclusion"

They didn't need to choose between Robby and Perriman they could have had both.  Convinced Adams is the devil? Ok take one of those picks make a deal for a player like Yannick or someone good, don't just punt on the season. 

we agree on one thing the games will prove the reality

but when they get smeared everyone will say it's a good Roster, Darnold is good, Gase has to go. there's a germ of truth there on both sides. Gase does have to go, and it's the worst roster. Darnold is their best player - that's where they are at for better or worse. 

I like your post, and it is well thought out, except for the conclusion.  I say that the Jets do not have the worst roster in the NFL, and you say they do.  

Question:  If the Jets have the worst roster, how did they win the last 6 out of 8 games?  How did they have a good draft according to the experts and get worse?  How did they upgrade the offensive line and get worse?  How is a healthy Darnold, a healthy Williamson at linebacker, a healthy Herndon not going to help this team be better than last year?

Yes, we lost Jamal, but he wasn't worth more than 1 win last year, and he isn't worth 1 win this year on his own. 

 

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I mean, the sentiment that we don't have talent is based in the results of our drafts. Look at who we've drafted and look at their production. We traded our best player before camp and our second best player opted out.

I'm optimistic about the young core talent but "the Jets have a poor roster" isn't a crazy take.

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1 minute ago, Alka said:

Question:  If the Jets have the worst roster, how did they win the last 6 out of 8 games?  How did they have a good draft according to the experts and get worse?  How did they upgrade the offensive line and get worse?  How is a healthy Darnold, a healthy Williamson at linebacker, a healthy Herndon not going to help this team be better than last year?

Yes, we lost Jamal, but he wasn't worth more than 1 win last year, and he isn't worth 1 win this year on his own. 

 

I like your post for asking questions and having a discussion

they won 6 out of 8 last year as spoilers against bad defenses, without much travel. The bills rested their starters week 17. this year they travel 31000 miles this year and face both SB participants. 

they did have a good draft but the draft is not for right now it's for three years from now. The draft was mixed by the way. Becton and Davis look like Studs, Mann is their punter for the next 10 years and Morgan should be considered for real reps but guys like Mims, Clark and Zuniga have been no shows. Perine is also a huge question mark it was about 50/50 in terms of being helpful for this season. Which is can be a very good draft especially if Becton really pans out to HOF levels

how did they get worse? by not paying Robby primarily. that's 100 targets every year for Sam gone and they have a WR shortage. They didn't sign a real pass rusher either or a real CB1. They did cut Winters and use the empty space to cut Quincy. Overall this roster is top-5 underfunded. 

As for Darnold look at the scrimmage thread if that dude played half as good as people expect him to play, you're right none of this would matter. Herndon is not reliable as a human being. I like Williamson. But the schedule is harder and they have invested less money in the roster. 

put it another way you're looking at it from a purely Jets perspective

every other team signed FA, had a draft and got healthy too. Many other teams signed their stars.  Some teams traded for other people's stars. 

i don't mind that they traded Adams, I mind that they are sitting on a mountain of cap space 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, SAR I said:

Every year there is a team in the NFL that surprises the so-called 'experts' while their actual fanbase knows better.

This year, that's us.

And the reason for the anti-Jets narrative is simple-  in the biggest media market in the world, SOJFism sells.  It gets clicks.  It gets likes.  It gets comments.  Playing Jets fans as sad sacks is big business.  Don't fall for it.

SAR I

I agree that we might surprise (to the upside) this year but the anti-Jets narrative exists for a good reason.  In fact, I think there's a certain YouTube video out there that helps explain it.

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

the national media doesn't make stuff up exclusively  - it steals from the beaters

when Connor Hughes tweets the Jets need CBs, the national media notices 

when Becton is ragdolling Jenkins around in a Getty Photo and Jenks is supposedly their best pass rusher the national media notices 

when the WRs in practice are Chris Hogan, Cager and Jeff Smith, the national media notices.

it's not super hard to draw these conclusions on the national level

national media are not evil villains they are underpaid overworked and on a deadline. They don't want to be talking about all 32 cornerback corps yet there they are grinding it out 3am on a Sunday night to make click bait.  It's true they could do MORE research but it's not a place for HOPE

meanwhile, Jets fans are in a Jets silo.

convinced you are correct?

Go look at every other team's roster and then make the case they DON'T have the worst cornerbacks or pass rushers  

Jets fans love  to conclusion shop.

"I want to get to the conclusion this team is good there fore I will only accept facts that build toward that conclusion"

They didn't need to choose between Robby and Perriman they could have had both.  Convinced Adams is the devil? Ok take one of those picks make a deal for a player like Yannick or someone good, don't just punt on the season. 

we agree on one thing the games will prove the reality

but when they get smeared everyone will say it's a good Roster, Darnold is good, Gase has to go. there's a germ of truth there on both sides. Gase does have to go, and it's the worst roster. Darnold is their best player - that's where they are at for better or worse. 

You want to have this both ways.  The Jets have a bad roster for a reason.  It's not because they haven't invested in talent over the years.  It's because they couldn't judge talent or develop it.  That neglect was over decades.  Having Robbie and Perriman and Adams would not make any none biased NFL writer or GM think the Jets had a talent laden roster that was in the playoff hunt.   The Jets had both Robbie and Adams last year and had a crappy roster that was among if not the worst in the NFL.  Adding Perriman wouldn't change that.  Adding Perriman was an adequate replacement for Robbie with the potential for upside.  Having two No. 3 simply takes up a roster spot.  One of them stretches the field as much as having two of them on the field.  

The Jets need to rebuild the roster.  Robbie was not just a second tier WR, he lacks intelligence and discipline.  Adams is a real good player.  He lacks leadership, didn't want to be here and would be a distraction on a rebuilding team.   There is more than paying bodies when you make a long term commitment to guys.  You make long term commitments to guys who are smart and are willing to make a long term commitment to the organization.  Robbie and Adams were simply not those guys.  Sadly we couldn't get anything reasonable for Robbie last year when he was on the block.   

The Jets have had 1 off season under Douglas.  He drafted a LT and WR with the first two picks.  He replaced a great in the box safety with a good safety who can play both FS and SS.  He drafted a very athletic safety who can be developed.  He picked up a lot of future draft capital and has cleaned up the cap and will be able to make a serious run at FA's going forward.  He got rid of a great in the box safety who was likely to be a distraction without a contract that he doesn't deserve and if he got might well dog it after being paid. 

I suspect when the season opens the Jets will have spent up to the full cap. We aren't done yet.  

 

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There's nothing lazy about it. 

There are two driving factors:

1) As has been pointed out, extremism sells in media. A bad NY team (see: Mets) or a great NY team (see: Yankees) sells stories. An average one doesn't.

2) Most people realize that success in any organization starts at the very top. Couple that with the fact that we have incompetent, trust-fund losers as owners, and it's a safe bet that the organization will fail consistently.

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12 hours ago, SAR I said:

Every year there is a team in the NFL that surprises the so-called 'experts' while their actual fanbase knows better.

This year, that's us.

 

I thought that was going to be us last year?

I know...Mono, injuries, etc.  But that kinda happens to this franchise every year.

What I will say is that when the "experts" predict you'll be something like the 28th best team at something it's pretty easy to beat those expectations.  After all, you only need to surpass 5 out of 32 teams.  It's not too hard.....well, except for last year when we found a way to drop to 31st in offense.

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1 hour ago, Alka said:

I like your post, and it is well thought out, except for the conclusion.  I say that the Jets do not have the worst roster in the NFL, and you say they do.  

Question:  If the Jets have the worst roster, how did they win the last 6 out of 8 games?  How did they have a good draft according to the experts and get worse?  How did they upgrade the offensive line and get worse?  How is a healthy Darnold, a healthy Williamson at linebacker, a healthy Herndon not going to help this team be better than last year?

Yes, we lost Jamal, but he wasn't worth more than 1 win last year, and he isn't worth 1 win this year on his own. 

 

Agree with this.  If you ignore current injuries then the roster as it stands today is better than last year.  Whether it's 10% better or 20%, I have no idea.  But there's no way that it's worse IMO.  I think most Jets fans would agree that it's a deeper roster this year, maybe not by much but the second team guys this year seem better than second team last year.  So the question becomes whether the starters are better?

Compare last year's starting O to this year's..... Darnold, Bell, Crowder, Herndon (injured last year) are a push and all have returned.  Robby Anderson is gone and I'd argue that Perriman is a push (replacement value).  Won't say he's better but I don't think he's worse.  The OLine?  5 out of 5 spots look to either be upgraded or are the same - Lewis is back, GVR seems like an adequate replacement for Winters, the other 3 spots should all be better.  Mims is a roster upgrade over an aging and currently unsigned D. Thomas.  Heck, Chris Hogan probably is as well.  The offensive roster on this team is better, especially when you consider the younger guys added like Perine, Cam Clark, Morgan, etc. for depth and development.

We can perform a similar exercise on the D.  Major subtractions are Adams, Mosely opting out (although he didn't really play last year either and is still on the roster), and Leo Williams (after Week 6).  Williamson returns at ILB (but he was on the roster last year), Patrick Onwasur was added and guys like Hewitt, Burgess and Cashman all return.  I'd argue that CBs like Hairston and Darryl Roberts have been slightly upgraded with guys like Desir and Quincy Williams, with the team hoping Bless Austin and Maulet can push them.  Are Maye and/or McDougald a reasonable replacement for Adams?  Yes, whether it's 70% or 90% I can't say.  Ashtyn Davis looks like he could be a plug-and-play replacement for Maye at FS with time.  On D I would say this team, sans Adams, is largely the same but has added a tactical piece like Desir here and there.  The big thing for this D is the youth movement though - Year 2/3 for Quinnen Williams, Kyle Phillips, Foley Fatukasi, Nathan Shepherd...the additions of Davis and Zuniga, the return of Avery Williamson and veteran (but still young) guys like Jenkins and Maye set the D up well.  Adams is the big loss off the roster, but I'm not convinced this roster is worse than last year's 16th ranked Defense.

One way to look at the roster is simply this...

Was any starting position other than SS potentially downgraded?  Probably not.

Can we find at least 5 positions that were improved/upgraded?  I think so.

This roster is better than last year AND we've loaded the boat with future draft picks.

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3 hours ago, Bungaman said:

I was 12. Throw in the Knicks for good measure. It's been a long, painful road.

But I love your main thought: the difference between 10-6 and 6-10 is maybe seven points per game, and the timing of those points. With a merely average OL, why can't this team make up that gap? With no major coaching/system changes, that will help in a crazed off/pre season. Chances are low that we replicate last season's avalanche of injuries. I think we are no worse than 9-7.

The OL might end up average.  But it will take time to play like a unit given the shortened offseason and no preseason games.  The first several games will be ugly as a result.

Then there's the schedule factor.  We're going from the easiest schedule, with minimal travel, to at minimum above average SOS that includes 3 west coast trips.

I think the team will be better than last season, but will still go 6-10 or 7-9.

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7 hours ago, bitonti said:

I like your post for asking questions and having a discussion

they won 6 out of 8 last year as spoilers against bad defenses, without much travel. The bills rested their starters week 17. this year they travel 31000 miles this year and face both SB participants. 

they did have a good draft but the draft is not for right now it's for three years from now. The draft was mixed by the way. Becton and Davis look like Studs, Mann is their punter for the next 10 years and Morgan should be considered for real reps but guys like Mims, Clark and Zuniga have been no shows. Perine is also a huge question mark it was about 50/50 in terms of being helpful for this season. Which is can be a very good draft especially if Becton really pans out to HOF levels

how did they get worse? by not paying Robby primarily. that's 100 targets every year for Sam gone and they have a WR shortage. They didn't sign a real pass rusher either or a real CB1. They did cut Winters and use the empty space to cut Quincy. Overall this roster is top-5 underfunded. 

As for Darnold look at the scrimmage thread if that dude played half as good as people expect him to play, you're right none of this would matter. Herndon is not reliable as a human being. I like Williamson. But the schedule is harder and they have invested less money in the roster. 

put it another way you're looking at it from a purely Jets perspective

every other team signed FA, had a draft and got healthy too. Many other teams signed their stars.  Some teams traded for other people's stars. 

i don't mind that they traded Adams, I mind that they are sitting on a mountain of cap space 

 

 

 

There isn't much I can argue with in what you said, but it is what you didn't state that I have an argument with.  You didn't even mention the upgraded Offensive line which made Winters expendable.  If Darnold is protected, if Bell becomes Bell from the past (which he should), then this team is better period.  Last year, I predicted before the season that this team would be 7-9, mostly due to the garbage offensive line.  This year, the offensive line is better, I like our running back situation, and I like our tight end situation. 

I predicted 8-8 this year, and this team will be better against a more difficult schedule. 

I do have one slight disagreement with what you said though.  I am not a fan of Anderson being anything better than a #3 wide receiver, and I feel that we got one back in Perrine.  Mims?  Who knows.  So far, I'm very unimpressed.  

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9 hours ago, Bungaman said:

I was 12. Throw in the Knicks for good measure. It's been a long, painful road.

But I love your main thought: the difference between 10-6 and 6-10 is maybe seven points per game, and the timing of those points. With a merely average OL, why can't this team make up that gap? With no major coaching/system changes, that will help in a crazed off/pre season. Chances are low that we replicate last season's avalanche of injuries. I think we are no worse than 9-7.

The OL can improve and it could still likely be a bottom 5 OL.

Here are the current ingredients for the starting OL.

Fant - Backup Tackle for the Seahawks

Becton - Rookie Tackle

Lewis - Below Average Guard

Roten - Below Average Guard

McGovern - Above Average Center.

McGovern is the only proven player, and the majority of teams already have someone comparable or better than Mcgovern along their O-line.

Becton is likely the key player if this Line becomes average or maybe Fant because the rest of the players are low upside.

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I think Becton is going to be great( in time) it’ll likely take him a few years. He’ll make his share of mistakes as a rookie for sure but I think he’ll still show more than enough this year to show us he was well worth the investment.

As for the rest of the line??? I somewhat agree but it’s still a vast improvement from last year. 

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