What’s the difference between what Joe Douglas plan and John Idzik?

[GreekJet]

Can’t help but notice the similarities 

1) Both inherited a HC they could naturally pin the blame on 

2) Both traded away an All-Pro defensive player in the prime of their careers

3) Both chose to roll over tons of cap space their first year despite the fact that their coaches desperately needed to win now to save their jobs 

4) Both signed a lot of bargain basement free agents on one year contracts (Breshad Perriman/Chaz Schillens) 

5) Both set themselves up well for year 2 with cap space and ample draft picks

6) Both had high approval ratings amongst the fan base early on 

 

Whats the difference?

1) Douglas inherited a more stable QB than Idzik (Sanchez was at the end of his rope when Idzik arrived) 

2) Douglas reports to Chris as opposed to Idzik who reported to Woody

3) Douglas seems much more comfortable talking to the media than Idzik

4) Idzik inherited a much more popular coach than Douglas did

The truth is Idzik had a good plan (just like Douglas). It was just poorly executed. At the end of the day if the Joe Douglas plan is going to work he’s going to have to draft well.

If those draft picks the next few year turn into Dee Milliner, Sheldon Richardson, Geno Smith, Calvin Pryor, and Jace Amaro  the NY Jets will be attempting another rebuild three years from now. 

[jetophile]

What's the difference between Joe Douglas and John Idzik? Hmm, other than thinking this is a trick question, John Idzik's father was an Assistant Coach to Walt Michaels. I would throw the Jets coaching legacy of nose-picking in there, but that was really more on Joe Walton, so that's all I got. 

[Greenseed4]

Interesting that we will get to compare two first rounders from a single draft for both GMs. 

[David Harris]

Ryan Fitzpatrick won’t ruin it all.

and JD has 20 years of perfect training to be a GM and wasn’t a bean counter.  JD rebuilt an entire OL in one off season, all upgrades and with his first draft he went with high upside guys at every pick so even when the draft math busts some guys out of the league, a few others should hit and hit high

 

[kdels62]

The difference is that one was bad and the other we don’t know yet. Every team is 3 bad years away from a rebuild.

[playtowinthegame]

GreekJet how's the weather at Myrtle Beach? Has it been good golfing weather? Forget about it.

[GreekJet]

 

17 minutes ago, David Harris said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick won’t ruin it all.

and JD has 20 years of perfect training to be a GM and wasn’t a bean counter.  JD rebuilt an entire OL in one off season, all upgrades and with his first draft he went with high upside guys at every pick so even when the draft math busts some guys out of the league, a few others should hit and hit high

 

Picking players is an inexact science regardless of reputation and training. Like Douglas, Idzik tried to increase his odds by stockpiling picks. 

[playtowinthegame]

Let's compare the worst gm in the history of the Jets to a guy who just completed his first free agency and nfl draft during a f-ing pandemic. Give Joe a fair shake for christ sakes.

[jetscrazey]

The first real difference is Idzik purposely tried to set Rex up to fail.  He had no prior relationship with him.  It was a true shotgun marriage Woody the idiot forced upon us all.

Douglas and Gase have a history and Gase effectively brought Douglas in.

However, I see Douglas really not spending to get free agents here and it could be setting Darnold up for a rough year.  I mean who's he throwing to on the outside??  Perriman better get healthy and stay healthy.  In that regard, this could be quite similar to Idzik's second year.  I think Douglas makes it to year 3.  The main question is do Gase and Darnold?  I think it would be crazy to give up on Darnold no matter what happens in this weird season, but I could totally see fans and media running this kid out of town prematurely.

[GreekJet]

1 minute ago, jetscrazey said:

The first real difference is Idzik purposely tried to set Rex up to fail.  He had no prior relationship with him.  It was a true shotgun marriage Woody the idiot forced upon us all.

Douglas and Gase have a history and Gase effectively brought Douglas in.

However, I see Douglas really not spending to get free agents here and it could be setting Darnold up for a rough year.  I mean who's he throwing to on the outside??  Perriman better get healthy and stay healthy.  In that regard, this could be quite similar to Idzik's second year.  I think Douglas makes it to year 3.  The main question is do Gase and Darnold?  I think it would be crazy to give up on Darnold no matter what happens in this weird season, but I could totally see fans and media running this kid out of town prematurely.

I view this season as year 1 for Douglas. Either way once again we are in that odd situation where the coach is on different timelines than the GM. 
 

Couldn’t you argue Douglas set Gase up to fail this season just like Idzik did to Rex?

[#27TheDominator]

24 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

I view this season as year 1 for Douglas. Either way once again we are in that odd situation where the coach is on different timelines than the GM. 
 

Couldn’t you argue Douglas set Gase up to fail this season just like Idzik did to Rex?

Douglas gave Gase specific guys that he wanted.  Gore and Ballage were guys that were obvious Gase wants.  Idzik gave Rex zero cover corners for a D that was completely dependent on them.  

[Paradis]

[Prodigal Syndicate]

1 hour ago, David Harris said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick won’t ruin it all.

and JD has 20 years of perfect training to be a GM and wasn’t a bean counter.  JD rebuilt an entire OL in one off season, all upgrades and with his first draft he went with high upside guys at every pick so even when the draft math busts some guys out of the league, a few others should hit and hit high

 

We have no idea how this o line will work. He shuffled players, but we have no clue the results. 

[Greenbloodblitz]

Nevermind..

[UnknownJetFan]

2 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Can’t help but notice the similarities 

1) Both inherited a HC they could naturally pin the blame on 

2) Both traded away an All-Pro defensive player in the prime of their careers

3) Both chose to roll over tons of cap space their first year despite the fact that their coaches desperately needed to win now to save their jobs 

4) Both signed a lot of bargain basement free agents on one year contracts (Breshad Perriman/Chaz Schillens) 

5) Both set themselves up well for year 2 with cap space and ample draft picks

6) Both had high approval ratings amongst the fan base early on 

 

Whats the difference?

1) Douglas inherited a more stable QB than Idzik (Sanchez was at the end of his rope when Idzik arrived) 

2) Douglas reports to Chris as opposed to Idzik who reported to Woody

3) Douglas seems much more comfortable talking to the media than Idzik

4) Idzik inherited a much more popular coach than Douglas did

The truth is Idzik had a good plan (just like Douglas). It was just poorly executed. At the end of the day if the Joe Douglas plan is going to work he’s going to have to draft well.

If those draft picks the next few year turn into Dee Milliner, Sheldon Richardson, Geno Smith, Calvin Pryor, and Jace Amaro  the NY Jets will be attempting another rebuild three years from now. 

JD has a brain, that is the difference. Idzik missed on all 12 draft picks in 1 draft that anyone in the world could have hit on some by just throwing darts at a board spinning with college players on it.

[GREENBEAN]

2 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Can’t help but notice the similarities 

Ya know, it's really not a bad question. IMO Idzik's plan (outside of potentially trying to get rid of Rex) was very sound. He shed most of the wild Tanny contracts, let older washed up players go, traded a monetary and hold out problem coming off of a major injury and turned him into two draft picks and acquired numerous comp picks in the process. The problem with Idzik is that he completely whiffed on almost every single swing on players he brought in. Decker was a nice get but the drafting was atrocious from the second they took the injured Dee Milliner with his first pick. And remember that CB he brought in that just left in the middle of a game or something like that? WTF was THAT??? lol 

I'd offer that the best reason to have hope JD won't come up with the same results as Idzik is his background. JD has been groomed to be a GM. Idzik was never supposed to be one. JD came from arguably the best GM out there in Ozzie Newsome. It really is a huge difference between the two men. 

But it sure does look a lot like what Idzik was trying to do. JD Just has somethings going for him. He knows football from being a player to his personnel dept. training. Idzik was none of those things. 

 

[GREENBEAN]

7 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

JD has a brain, that is the difference. Idzik missed on all 12 draft picks in 1 draft that anyone in the world could have hit on some by just throwing darts at a board spinning with college players on it.

It took true talent to miss on that any guys in one draft.  Gotta give Idzik that. 

[GREENBEAN]

2 hours ago, David Harris said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick won’t ruin it all.

and JD has 20 years of perfect training to be a GM and wasn’t a bean counter.  JD rebuilt an entire OL in one off season, all upgrades and with his first draft he went with high upside guys at every pick so even when the draft math busts some guys out of the league, a few others should hit and hit high

 

Fitz was Macc no? 

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Can’t help but notice the similarities 

1) Both inherited a HC they could naturally pin the blame on 

2) Both traded away an All-Pro defensive player in the prime of their careers

3) Both chose to roll over tons of cap space their first year despite the fact that their coaches desperately needed to win now to save their jobs 

4) Both signed a lot of bargain basement free agents on one year contracts (Breshad Perriman/Chaz Schillens) 

5) Both set themselves up well for year 2 with cap space and ample draft picks

6) Both had high approval ratings amongst the fan base early on 

 

Whats the difference?

1) Douglas inherited a more stable QB than Idzik (Sanchez was at the end of his rope when Idzik arrived) 

2) Douglas reports to Chris as opposed to Idzik who reported to Woody

3) Douglas seems much more comfortable talking to the media than Idzik

4) Idzik inherited a much more popular coach than Douglas did

The truth is Idzik had a good plan (just like Douglas). It was just poorly executed. At the end of the day if the Joe Douglas plan is going to work he’s going to have to draft well.

If those draft picks the next few year turn into Dee Milliner, Sheldon Richardson, Geno Smith, Calvin Pryor, and Jace Amaro  the NY Jets will be attempting another rebuild three years from now. 

Seems like you just want the team to spend spend spend on FAs, NAME FAs and when you hit the cap fine. Signing big ticket free agents is not the way to build a team

[NYJ1]

4 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Can’t help but notice the similarities 

1) Both inherited a HC they could naturally pin the blame on 

2) Both traded away an All-Pro defensive player in the prime of their careers

3) Both chose to roll over tons of cap space their first year despite the fact that their coaches desperately needed to win now to save their jobs 

4) Both signed a lot of bargain basement free agents on one year contracts (Breshad Perriman/Chaz Schillens) 

5) Both set themselves up well for year 2 with cap space and ample draft picks

6) Both had high approval ratings amongst the fan base early on 

 

Whats the difference?

1) Douglas inherited a more stable QB than Idzik (Sanchez was at the end of his rope when Idzik arrived) 

2) Douglas reports to Chris as opposed to Idzik who reported to Woody

3) Douglas seems much more comfortable talking to the media than Idzik

4) Idzik inherited a much more popular coach than Douglas did

The truth is Idzik had a good plan (just like Douglas). It was just poorly executed. At the end of the day if the Joe Douglas plan is going to work he’s going to have to draft well.

If those draft picks the next few year turn into Dee Milliner, Sheldon Richardson, Geno Smith, Calvin Pryor, and Jace Amaro  the NY Jets will be attempting another rebuild three years from now. 

What killed Idzik was his inability to draft......

[fullblast]

I think the horrific 2014 draft is where Idzik lost most of the fanbase. His ideas were sound, he was just a terrible talent evaluator. Douglas was hired on the perceived strength of his talent evaluation, and that where we're hoping he separates himself from the likes of Idzik and Mac.

[sec101row23]

2 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

What killed Idzik was his inability to draft......

That will kill any GM.   If you don’t draft well, you can’t build a winning roster.  At some point you need to hit on several draft classes and you need guys to start to make immediate impacts.   Most of this current draft class is injured, so we’ll see little development and impact from them this year.  Douglas has a lot of work to do, a lot.  

[predator_05]

5 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

The problem with Idzik is that he completely whiffed on almost every single swing on players he brought in. Decker was a nice get but the drafting was atrocious from the second they took the injured Dee Milliner with his first pick. And remember that CB he brought in that just left in the middle of a game or something like that? WTF was THAT??? lol 

 

 

 

It really comes down to this. JD hits on a few of those draft picks, and he'll be a competent GM. Safe to assume that he'll have some misses (all GMs do). 

Idzik's failure to revamp the roster created the conditions that led to all those terrible contracts in the Maccagnan era. The team had zero young players to build around. 

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, GreekJet said:

6) Both had high approval ratings amongst the fan base early on 

Ugh, no.

 

[JustInFudge]

Considering this is JD's first offseason, I'd say the difference has not yet (if it will) be realized  Coming in and cleaning up the guys mess before him isnt an uncommon place in the NFL.  Idzick as incompetent as he was, could tear down fine because that doesnt take skill.  Literally anyone can do what he was doing.  It's the next piece of building a roster that takes skill.  Pretty unfair to make that comparison when you havent seen a single JD draft pick play Football and/or how the moves he did make this offseason will play out.

 

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Fitz was Macc no? 

But Idzik was responsible for the immortal Geno Smith

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Considering this is JD's first offseason, I'd say the difference has not yet (if it will) be realized  Coming in and cleaning up the guys mess before him isnt an uncommon place in the NFL.  Idzick as incompetent as he was, could tear down fine because that doesnt take skill.  Literally anyone can do what he was doing.  It's the next piece of building a roster that takes skill.  Pretty unfair to make that comparison when you havent seen a single JD draft pick play Football and/or how the moves he did make this offseason will play out.

 

also one huge difference early on, is that douglas seems committed to building an offense.  using his first 2 picks on offense is something that we are unfamiliar with before this.

[Jet Nut]

They both came into situations where a restocking of talent was their main job.  Coaches arent the same, other than some fans, no one was looking to dump Gase after one season with a roster the same fans who blame Gase for 7-9 claim sucks talent wise.  Idzik didnt come with a brilliant plan, rebuilding was obvious.  Then he proved that he had no clue how to restock a roster and had no plan.  We're assuming that leaving all that cap space was a great plan by Idzik

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

also one huge difference early on, is that douglas seems committed to building an offense.  using his first 2 picks on offense is something that we are unfamiliar with before this.

I think 5 of Idziks first 7 draft picks were on the offensive side of the ball, so theres that

[Jetster]

Considering this was his 1st draft, who the hell knows? 
Becton, Mims, Davis? 
Can we give 1 year at least? 

[thebuzzardman]

 

[sec101row23]

34 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

It really comes down to this. JD hits on a few of those draft picks, and he'll be a competent GM. Safe to assume that he'll have some misses (all GMs do). 

Idzik's failure to revamp the roster created the conditions that led to all those terrible contracts in the Maccagnan era. The team had zero young players to build around. 

I’ve mentioned this prior to this draft but given the situation this roster is in, JD needs to hit on more than a few draft picks at this point.   IF this team is be a legit playoff contender in a couple years he needs to have a well above average draft success rate for this draft class and next years class.  Otherwise we are looking at what, 3 more seasons of rebuild?  

[Jethead]

At least we seem to have dropped the pretense that the Jets are trying this year. Gonna be harder to pick well next year without a legit college season in 2020 though.

Sam is JDs big gamble. If he flops this year then it's on JD that he didn't trade Sam for another high pick and go all in.

[Augustiniak]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I think 5 of Idziks first 7 draft picks were on the offensive side of the ball, so theres that

but none in the first round.  

[BCJet]

Probably the biggest thing is that Idzik was in football administration, working on contracts and logistics, while JD grew up as a scout and personnel evaluator his whole career.

JD also will likely wind up having drafted more starters in the 2020 draft that Idzik did during his whole tenure.