Is this the final audition for both Adam Gase and Sam Darnold?

[JohnnyLV]

8 hours ago, shuler82 said:

I think what's more likely is that we have two simultaneous situations going on that traditionally don't go hand in hand.

On one hand, we're experiencing the first true off season for Joe Douglas. And make no mistakes about it- this is a gut renovation of an organization. It's why he's valued draft picks, and has avoided the big name splashes in FA. This year is a culture changer, and he's building the roster from nearly scratch.

On the other, you have Sam. Going into year 3. Wasting a way on a bottom five roster in the NFL. 

But here's the thing - if you're top NFL quarterback, you raise the play of those around you. You're the difference maker. You don't need top line players to succeed. Is Darnold that guy? I think the jury's out. But I also think that if this team can get healthy, there's enough talent there that it can't be an excuse for his failures.  Perriman/Crowder/Herndon have all flashed in camp. Hogan is an NFL vet. Maybe Mims shows us something.. and with Bell coming out of the backfield, Griffin as our TE2 and an upgrade at OL ,  it's going to be on Sam to show us he can be the guy.

As for Gase - the guy has a longer track record with less results. Year two of his system and hopefully without David Fales under center for 3+ games, and Gase needs to show he can get this offense to be middle of the pack.  If the offense still isn't performing, what does he bring to the table? 

 

 

I have no idea why people can watch last season and NOT realize that Sam already raises the level of play around him. Raising level does not mean dragging ANY roster to the playoffs.

[GREENBEAN]

7 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

 At the 5:22 point.  Your beard glowing lends a strong extraterrestrial effect, which is very effective in a conspiracy theory video.

My favorite comment of them all Wiz!

And to imagine I was self conscious about it.  lol 

[GREENBEAN]

46 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I have no idea why people can watch last season and NOT realize that Sam already raises the level of play around him. Raising level does not mean dragging ANY roster to the playoffs.

This is where I stand.  I was on a lived stream on @blablabla 's YouTube channel tonight and we got into this a bit. 

It's pretty difficult for a QB to have to play with that OL and receiver situation Sam had last year. He did raise the output of the players around him. 

In addition, Our starting three last year were Anderson, DT and Crowder last season. I would say confidently that Mims, Perriman and Crowder is a better starting 3 if they can get on the damned field.  It's all about these guys getting healthy. IF that happens Sam will be given a chance to show his goods. 

[Jetsfan80]

13 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Sadly, when Maccagnan was fired, the possibilty of moving on from Sam sooner rather than later became far more tangible.  I believe that this is a mistake, but in Douglas we trust, I guess.

Sure, but Darnold is also a factor in why Douglas came here in the first place.  He's going to give Darnold every possible chance to earn his 2nd contract.

[JohnnyLV]

14 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

This is where I stand.  I was on a lived stream on @blablabla 's YouTube channel tonight and we got into this a bit. 

It's pretty difficult for a QB to have to play with that OL and receiver situation Sam had last year. He did raise the output of the players around him. 

In addition, Our starting three last year were Anderson, DT and Crowder last season. I would say confidently that Mims, Perriman and Crowder is a better starting 3 if they can get on the damned field.  It's all about these guys getting healthy. IF that happens Sam will be given a chance to show his goods. 

You are a smart man Green. Must be all that clean air you breathe as you visit all the pretty places.

Look at the games with Falk and then the games with Darnold and you cannot tell me he didnt raise the level of play a LOT. And his one terrible game completely skews his stats and most people act like it is the only game he played.

Seems like we got a lot of good news in terms on injuries today. Cager/Mims in individuals, not real concern for Perriman. I definitely agree that Perriman/Mims/Crowder is stronger than the group last year, and I think that Cager and Vyncint when he comes back are very solid prospects. Injury is still the key there, but I think our receiving corps is better and deeper than people think and has a TON of speed and size.

The big thing is the OL If they can just be decent, I think Sam flourishes. The good thing is that no one has sad a single bad thing about Fant and almost nothing really bad about the OL in general.

I also think that we should not sleep on Perrine. Yes Gase will be super Bowles-like stubborn with the "veterans" for maybe half the season but by mid-season Perrine I think establishes himself.

We are a much better team that people realize, and people can hate Gase all they want but this team does seem to respond to him. Not to say I am a fan or liked the hire, but there are some signs that maybe he is a lot better coach than we think, especially here where everything is negative lately.

There is this weird thought in the back of my head that (maybe intentionally) the Patriots just collapse this year. It seems a thing they will do though I also think Hoodie wants to prove he can without the Deflator.

We will compete for the division late into the season and if we stay healthy I think we win it.

[Biggs]

Gase is a lock to be the Jets HC for the next two years minimum.  Gase and Douglas will evaluate and either extend or move on.  The idea that another GM/HC will be doing the evaluation is wishful thinking by the Gase hate club.   Gase is more than capable of evaluating the QB position.   

[Mogglez]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sure, but Darnold is also a factor in why Douglas came here in the first place.  He's going to give Darnold every possible chance to earn his 2nd contract.

Hopefully that wasn't GM speak when he said that and he does.

Look, I'd love to be wrong, but I just can't shake the feeling that he's going to yoink Sam if he gets the opportunity.

[hamat711]

15 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

It's pretty difficult for a QB to have to play with that OL and receiver situation Sam had last year. He did raise the output of the players around him. 

In addition, Our starting three last year were Anderson, DT and Crowder last season. I would say confidently that Mims, Perriman and Crowder is a better starting 3 if they can get on the damned field.  It's all about these guys getting healthy. IF that happens Sam will be given a chance to show his goods. 

Robbie Anderson's production has actually dropped since Darnold came to the Jets. Jamison Crowder's production has remained the same also.

I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say "raise".

 

Also, Mims needs to have at least a decent year and Perriman needs to continue what he did in Tampa for you to even make that claim about them being better than Anderson, DT and Crowder.

Anderson is better than Perriman.

Mims needs to prove he can actually play before any assumptions can be made. Rookie receivers are known to struggle and he already missed the majority of camp.

Crowder is a constant.

[hamat711]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

The big thing is the OL If they can just be decent, I think Sam flourishes. The good thing is that no one has sad a single bad thing about Fant and almost nothing really bad about the OL in general.

I saw a report that said the O-line is still very bad and they have been getting manhandled.

This could be due to chemistry, but the pieces added to the OL were questionable already except for Mcgovern, who isn't special either.

[Warfish]

No and No.

Gase will be here a minimum of three seasons, more likely four, like it or not (and I don't).

Darnold will play out all five years of his rookie deal minimum.

Expectations beyond this are, in my view, a bit naive as to how the Jets operate.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, hamat711 said:

I saw a report that said the O-line is still very bad and they have been getting manhandled.

This could be due to chemistry, but the pieces added to the OL were questionable already except for Mcgovern, who isn't special either.

That report was like the 2nd day of practice. Been very quiet since

[hamat711]

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

That report was like the 2nd day of practice. Been very quiet since

This week beat writer, Chris Nimbley said the O-line does not seem to be better than last year.

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, hamat711 said:

This week beat writer, Chris Nimbley said the O-line does not seem to be better than last year.

Fair enough. Let'd hope it is not true The few reports I remember were sort of neutral/positive

[GREENBEAN]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:42 AM, johnnysd said:

You are a smart man Green

I now question you're being sober when you wrote this.  

On 9/2/2020 at 11:42 AM, johnnysd said:

Seems like we got a lot of good news in terms on injuries today. Cager/Mims in individuals, not real concern for Perriman. I definitely agree that Perriman/Mims/Crowder is stronger than the group last year, and I think that Cager and Vyncint when he comes back are very solid prospects. Injury is still the key there, but I think our receiving corps is better and deeper than people think and has a TON of speed and size.

This is really the key. We are looking at a dearth at the WR position as if there was no emphasis placed on it, but that's simply not true. As I've said far too many times, I would have liked at least 1 more WR from this past draft, but outside of that JD did more for the position than most GM's we've had in the past 2 decades. He brought in 2 former 1st rd picks (busts they may be) Took a 1st rd talent in the 2nd. grabbed two more in UDFA and was about to give some young guys they like in the two Smiths a legit chance to show their stuff. 

It just sucks that the top 2 have been injured, Doctson opted out and V smith went down hard and fast. JD has done a good job scouring the trash heap and hogan is as good a pick up as could have been expected. I actually think he's going to be the best option out of what was still floating around at the time.  K White included. 

Now that these cats are coming back healthy we are going to have the potential to surprise some folks. I hope the first batch are the Bills. We owe those turds a punch in the face. 

[Philc1]

On 9/2/2020 at 1:53 PM, Biggs said:

Gase is a lock to be the Jets HC for the next two years minimum.  Gase and Douglas will evaluate and either extend or move on.  The idea that another GM/HC will be doing the evaluation is wishful thinking by the Gase hate club.   Gase is more than capable of evaluating the QB position.   

If the jets have another sh t year and Gase stays for we need more evidence the Johnsons don’t care

[Philc1]

On 9/2/2020 at 7:33 PM, johnnysd said:

Fair enough. Let'd hope it is not true The few reports I remember were sort of neutral/positive

Just read that guy Nimbley’s twitter.  He posted an article about Becton looking good in TC compared to the other rookie first round pick Left Tackles

 

Nimbley also has some views that uh, might upset some folks here

 

[GREENBEAN]

On 9/2/2020 at 12:51 PM, hamat711 said:

Robbie Anderson's production has actually dropped since Darnold came to the Jets. Jamison Crowder's production has remained the same also.

I'm not sure who you are referring to when you say "raise".

 

Also, Mims needs to have at least a decent year and Perriman needs to continue what he did in Tampa for you to even make that claim about them being better than Anderson, DT and Crowder.

Anderson is better than Perriman.

Mims needs to prove he can actually play before any assumptions can be made. Rookie receivers are known to struggle and he already missed the majority of camp.

Crowder is a constant.

I hear ya but DT was a shell of his former self and there is a reason he's not even being considered while we are hurting at the position. Took far too many plays off and dropped more than anyone would like. Mims won't have to do too much to be better. 

Crowder had his best year in 2019 and that's including the 3 games with Siemien/Falk. I'd say his game was raised. 

Griffin had his best year since 2016 and that includes coming off of the scrap heap and not playing in 4 games. He also more than doubled his TD's from his previous best year.  I'd say his frame was raised. 

Anderson had one season better than 2019 and again, we're including the 3 games sam didn't play.  He didn't regress under Sam. He stayed in the exact same pocket ass his whole career. The fact that his career long came in 2019 with that 31st OL we trotted out all year speaks volumes. His game may not have been raised but considering what Sam overcame to get the speed guy with a limited route tree the ball as much as he did tells the story. 

He's got health on Perriman. Incredibly important, but he's not a better receiver.  

We can talk about the myriad WR's the Jets waltzed out on to the field with all the IR loveliness we endured too. The fact that any of those guys are still around is because Sam got them the ball and made them look good all while running for his life with Mono.  

[hamat711]

1 hour ago, GREENBEAN said:

I hear ya but DT was a shell of his former self and there is a reason he's not even being considered while we are hurting at the position. Took far too many plays off and dropped more than anyone would like. Mims won't have to do too much to be better. 

Crowder had his best year in 2019 and that's including the 3 games with Siemien/Falk. I'd say his game was raised. 

Griffin had his best year since 2016 and that includes coming off of the scrap heap and not playing in 4 games. He also more than doubled his TD's from his previous best year.  I'd say his frame was raised. 

Anderson had one season better than 2019 and again, we're including the 3 games sam didn't play.  He didn't regress under Sam. He stayed in the exact same pocket ass his whole career. The fact that his career long came in 2019 with that 31st OL we trotted out all year speaks volumes. His game may not have been raised but considering what Sam overcame to get the speed guy with a limited route tree the ball as much as he did tells the story. 

He's got health on Perriman. Incredibly important, but he's not a better receiver.  

We can talk about the myriad WR's the Jets waltzed out on to the field with all the IR loveliness we endured too. The fact that any of those guys are still around is because Sam got them the ball and made them look good all while running for his life with Mono.  

DT was on pace for 629 yards which would be good for a rookie WR. There is a very good chance Mims will struggle with no camp, injuries and the onslaught of secondaries/defenses he will play this year especially in the division.

If you exclude Jamison Crowder's rookie year, he averages the same yards per game for the Jets as he did for Washington even when he had Colt Mccoy throwing him the ball. Crowder also put up the same numbers against NE with Falk as he did the second time with Darnold.

Griffin TD output is the only thing that went up. TDs have a high variance, but statistically it was his best.

Perriman is simply not better than Anderson. I don't know how you can make that statement when Perriman has been a bust/disappointment outside of his last 5 games.

Anderson's career long is just a matter of circumstance. His career long is higher than Tyreek Hills just to prove how pointless that statement was. I don't even know why you are using his Career long against him when his 92 yard TD catch was the 2nd longest passing touchdown in the league last year.

 

[Biggs]

9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

If the jets have another sh t year and Gase stays for we need more evidence the Johnsons don’t care

They care, they're incompetent.  The idea that they can replace Gase or Douglas with something better is a lottery shot not a plan.  I'm of the opinion that we might as well give both of them a few years to prove their incompetence instead of making it up based on the past performance of Jets GM's and HC's.  

Chances are they will both suck based on who hired them.  The chances of improvement because of who is doing the hiring is so small it's not worth doing the math calculation.  Expecting the current ownership to hire someone better seems absurd.  It's like using the lottery as an investment plan.

Last year wasn't a sh*t year for the NY Jets.  We had a terrible roster, injuries and a sick QB to open the season.  We clearly had a better year than standard deviation of reasonable expectations would indicate.   Gase actually over performed.  That doesn't mean his performance won't regress to the mean.  He hasn't coached long enough in the NFL to know what that is.  

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

They care, they're incompetent.  The idea that they can replace Gase or Douglas with something better is a lottery shot not a plan.  I'm of the opinion that we might as well give both of them a few years to prove their incompetence instead of making it up based on the past performance of Jets GM's and HC's.  

Chances are they will both suck based on who hired them.  The chances of improvement because of who is doing the hiring is so small it's not worth doing the math calculation.  Expecting the current ownership to hire someone better seems absurd.  It's like using the lottery as an investment plan.

Last year wasn't a sh*t year for the NY Jets.  We had a terrible roster, injuries and a sick QB to open the season.  We clearly had a better year than standard deviation of reasonable expectations would indicate.   Gase actually over performed.  That doesn't mean his performance won't regress to the mean.  He hasn't coached long enough in the NFL to know what that is.  

I don’t think the Johnsons even care.  Woody is busy at his made up job in England doing nothing when his main multi billion dollar venture is here withering on the vine.  He hires multiple incompetent GMs on a whim and forces a trade for Tim Tebow his hero

[bitonti]

The thing is, winning and losing pays the same

If there was relegation, woody might care

Currently he can neglect this team and due to the revenue sharing it only helps his bottom line.

The money they save by not hiring Matt Rhule? Profit.

The extra cap space for no reason? Profit.

Hiring first time position coaches? Profit.

The Jets can win 12 games or lose 12 games, the TV check size is the same

I don’t think the Johnsons even care.  Woody is busy at his made up job in England doing nothing when his main multi billion dollar venture is here withering on the vine.  He hires multiple incompetent GMs on a whim and forces a trade for Tim Tebow his hero

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[JohnnyLV]

11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

If the jets have another sh t year and Gase stays for we need more evidence the Johnsons don’t care

I don't think you can make a solid argument for Gase having a sh it year to be honest. We were mediocre, we did not go to the playoffs but finishing 7-9 after our start is not something many coaches would pull off. With our OL (not Gase's fault or coaching for that matter) you could make an argument it was a GOOD year. I am not a Gase fan but dumping on him for last year is just not realistic.

[GREENBEAN]

9 hours ago, hamat711 said:

Perriman is simply not better than Anderson. I don't know how you can make that statement when Perriman has been a bust/disappointment outside of his last 5 games.

 

He's a better WR. If you watch full game tapes from last season before his 5 game breakout you will see that he was burning guys all season. He has an expanded route tree compared to Anderson and can be used effectively in the intermediate game. A place where Anderson is rarely effective. The injury thing is real and has ruined many careers, but there is a reason he was a first rd pick and Anderson was an udfa. Perriman is a much better receiver.  The output has not shown that but it's really not debatable outside of injury.  Which is big.  SO I get it. 

I will direct your attention to Mclaurin last season, although I have numerous examples, of a rookie WR who came in and lit it up. He made it to the 3rd rd (I believe). Mims is a significantly better WR prospect than he is and will have a big impact this season.  He has the makings of a dominant number 1.  Having a geriatric DT half a$$ing it all season is not a good situation. Sam made that situation a positive. Again, while running for his life. 

Look, I'm not here touting our WR's as the best in the NFL. All I'm saying is that it's been upgraded. And that Sam had less to work with than he does this year assuming these guys get on the field.  You disagree and that's cool. But if Sam has some time in the pocket, which he should, you will see what I'm talking about. I just so happened to put a lot of time into Perriman and Mims in addition to the Jets WR's. Perriman gets on the field consistently and robby's output will be surpassed by game 10.  And I liked and wanted to retain RA. 

[HessStation]

Despite what happens, I genuinely think Darnold was a great prospect who got ****ed being put in a position to play for this organization. Maybe I’m wrong and all ends up well regardless but I don’t have a good feeling about it. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Biggs said:

Chances are they will both suck based on who hired them.  

Gase essentially hired Douglas, not the Johnson's.  FWIW.  

And at least Douglas' first draft featured some nice trade downs and solid logic behind the picks.  We drafted athletic guys who also seem, for the most part, to be character guys.  That's a departure from past GM's for sure.

[Philc1]

On 9/4/2020 at 8:55 AM, johnnysd said:

I don't think you can make a solid argument for Gase having a sh it year to be honest. We were mediocre, we did not go to the playoffs but finishing 7-9 after our start is not something many coaches would pull off. With our OL (not Gase's fault or coaching for that matter) you could make an argument it was a GOOD year. I am not a Gase fan but dumping on him for last year is just not realistic.

We had an easy schedule and Sam played really well last season even if the numbers look decent not great.  Watch the games Sam is overachieving with a below mediocre supporting cast

 

the opportunity is there for us to go 9-7 or 10-6 and make a playoff run but a couple things have to go right:

 

1. Mims and Perriman have to play

2. Bell and Gase have to get along

3. Becton has to be a beast immediately 

[FidelioJet]

Gase stays, Sam's gone.

[FidelioJet]

On 9/4/2020 at 10:58 AM, HessStation said:

Despite what happens, I genuinely think Darnold was a great prospect who got ****ed being put in a position to play for this organization. Maybe I’m wrong and all ends up well regardless but I don’t have a good feeling about it. 

This is exactly how I feel.  

I would not be shocked if he went on to have a great career after he leaves us.

[Hael]

If we completely bomb this year, like going 4-12, I don’t think Gase survives.

Darnold would likely survive another few years, but they’d likely be looking to draft a 2nd or 3rd round qb next year to hedge their bets.

if we break even, I think Gase gets one more year, bc this rosters proven talent is bottom 5 lvl and our schedule seems tough.  This is a developmental year, and the front office needs to see steady improvement from its young players.

[Dunnie]

Yes and Yes ... This is the year for Darnold to either prove he's The Man or we bring in serious competition ... Allowing anither mediocre year to slide be would be deruliction of.duty by JD.

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[JETSALLDAY24X]

I think the season would really have to go off the rails for either of these to happen. Hard to imagine JD would give up on Darnold after year 3 given the disaster of a team that has been put around him. If he misses time again then yes it should be discussed. In terms of Gase, asking a qb to go into a third system in year 4 is really doing him a disservice. Gase, Darnold, Douglas...All deserve the opportunity to get some help around the roster. I'm certainly not for this unless the team is 3-13 and Darnold shows significant regression.