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Lots of good science and data kicked around in that confab for sure.

Don't get this thread locked you fu*****!!!  This is the happiest I've been since my kid was born end of June. Don't take this from me!  😀

We’re here exactly because we ignored the science six months ago.

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1 hour ago, CSNY said:

I cannot understand why they are willing to put kids health and safety above money and pressure. If the presidents of these schools truly believe that it is in the best interest of all concerned then have the courage of your conviction  to stand up against any outside influences. It won’t kill them to wait a year but it truly may kill people if they don’t 

Because the risks are being far overplayed, and there is no reason every sport should be playing...  The risks are below 1%, the NFL is about to play, all pro sports are playing, in Europe they are playing, we just learned only 6% of those who perished was actually due to the virus.  The virus has mutated, no longer as severe, treatments are better, more advanced, an overwhelming majority are asymptomatic.

Play football and all sports, including fans in the stands even if it means a phased return to full capacity!

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5 hours ago, peebag said:

good thing for Nebraska, Iowa....otherwise those two schools athletic depts were going belly up.

I work for PSU. We as a University have lost well over $100 m in the past 5 months. Believe me, all these Schools need an infusion of funding. 

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4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

At this point, who knows what to make of anything we hear, even from "trusted sources".  I realize the below does NOT mean that only 6% of the deaths were from Covid (just because one has co-morbidities doesn't mean they couldn't have died from Covid) but it certainly clouds the issue.  And it's not like we haven't heard contradictory info from Fauci.

https://www.telegram.com/news/20200831/cdc-says-covid-only-deaths-mere-6

That's precisely what conspiracy theorists and the Russians want you to believe. The obliteration of any frame of reference for the truth is a victory for the enemies of this country. 

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2 hours ago, CSNY said:

I cannot understand why they are willing to put kids health and safety above money and pressure. If the presidents of these schools truly believe that it is in the best interest of all concerned then have the courage of your conviction  to stand up against any outside influences. It won’t kill them to wait a year but it truly may kill people if they don’t 

Well that's where it's probably trickier than just the kids health vs money.

The vast majority of these athletes want the season to happen.  For the ones that don't, they have the opportunity to sit out and not lose their scholarship.  They are all adults at this point, albeit very young adults.  They should have been consulted and that's where in my opinion the Big Ten f'd up.  The Ten thought they would get ahead of this, assuming the public opinion would be on their side. I don't think they expected the outcry from players and parents they received.  

I also think a big part of their decision was based on potential future law suits if someone had lasting damage.  And I think they are now seeing they are probably opening themselves up to a whole bunch of different lawsuits of a different type.

I am very pro "caution" when it comes to Covid.  Masks for all, yada yada.  However, I don't think that Iowa or Nebraska or Wisconsin playing football adds any extra Covid risks to those communities that already exist.

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5 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Well that's where it's probably trickier than just the kids health vs money.

The vast majority of these athletes want the season to happen.  For the ones that don't, they have the opportunity to sit out and not lose their scholarship.  They are all adults at this point, albeit very young adults.  They should have been consulted and that's where in my opinion the Big Ten f'd up.  The Ten thought they would get ahead of this, assuming the public opinion would be on their side. I don't think they expected the outcry from players and parents they received.  

I also think a big part of their decision was based on potential future law suits if someone had lasting damage.  And I think they are now seeing they are probably opening themselves up to a whole bunch of different lawsuits of a different type.

I am very pro "caution" when it comes to Covid.  Masks for all, yada yada.  However, I don't think that Iowa or Nebraska or Wisconsin playing football adds any extra Covid risks to those communities that already exist.

Exactly. These kids are not sheltering in place at home they're just partying with friends. So while playing football poses a risk, it's not any greater risk than partying with their friends in campus or at home. In fact, I would guess that being in some form of a bubble with your team is a safer environment for these guys.

Regardless, they don't have to play and if they catch it they are young and likely will be totally fine.

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4 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Exactly. These kids are not sheltering in place at home they're just partying with friends. So while playing football poses a risk, it's not any greater risk than partying with their friends in campus or at home. In fact, I would guess that being in some form of a bubble with your team is a safer environment for these guys.

Regardless, they don't have to play and if they catch it they are young and likely will be totally fine.

By the CDC's own data, a college athlete has < .0002 chance of dying from this virus (and that's assuming they get it in the first place)

Compared to a .001 chance of death just for being 20 yo

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

So I guess they should be 5 times more scared of getting out of bed in the morning than of dying from COVID . . .

 

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4 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

And these presidents will get fired if the SEC and ACC pull off successful college football seasons while the big ten schools suffer serious financial hardships (due to zero TV revenue).

With all respect, not a chance.  All of these sports presently playing are having trouble with people getting Covid 19 unless they're in a bubble.  The college presidents who chant "open it up" for football are running a far greater risk than the cautious ones, considering how successful the "open it up" philosophy has been for the duration of the Covid 19 crisis.

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Some Nebraska players sued Big Ten for postponing the season. Stay tuned . . . to something . . . that may or may not be football. Just also heard some squawking that the Dan Patrick thing about Oct. doesn't really have legs, but no links so . . . possibly . . . unintentional . . . fake news. Sad.

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2 hours ago, JetsRay said:

 in Europe they are playing,

Not relevant, as I will show:

France has 1/5 the US population.  In the past week, France had 107 Covid deaths.  Multiply by 5 equals 535 for a US size pop.

Germany has 1/4 the US population.  In the past week, Germany had 27 Covid deaths.  Multiply by 4 equals 108 for a US size pop.

In the past week, the US has had 6,387 Covid deaths.

Europe has almost completely neutralized its Covid problem by wearing masks and social distancing, instead of crying "Constitution!" and bragging that "nobody tells me to do nuthin" like we do over here.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/france

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/germany

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/united-states

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42 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

With all respect, not a chance.  All of these sports presently playing are having trouble with people getting Covid 19 unless they're in a bubble.  The college presidents who chant "open it up" for football are running a far greater risk than the cautious ones, considering how successful the "open it up" philosophy has been for the duration of the Covid 19 crisis.

NFL is not in a bubble, do you know how many positive tests they've had despite practices every day?

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56 NFL players have tested positive for COVID-19 since reporting to camp
Posted by Michael David Smith on August 6, 2020, 8:37 AM EDT 

The NFL Players Association says that 56 players have tested positive for COVID-19 since players began reporting to training camps last week.

That represents approximately 2 percent of the players currently on NFL rosters.

The league would obviously love to see zero players testing positive, something the NBA and NHL have both managed by putting all their players into bubbles. But the NFL is not going to use a bubble, and so a 0 percent rate of infection is all but impossible.

Still, if the league and its players can keep the infection rate relatively low, the season can go on as scheduled, without having to cancel games like Major League Baseball.

The problem is that keeping the rate of infection relatively low is going to be very difficult once players are practicing with each other daily and playing against each other weekly. Even one infected player being able to practice before he knows he’s infected could result in the kind of outbreak within a team that the Miami Marlins had just days into the baseball season, leading to a chain reaction of games being canceled.

So the NFL and the players will need to be vigilant for the next six months if the league is going to have a complete season, up to and including the Super Bowl.

  

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/08/06/56-nfl-players-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19-since-reporting-to-camp/

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49 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Not relevant, as I will show:

France has 1/5 the US population.  In the past week, France had 107 Covid deaths.  Multiply by 5 equals 535 for a US size pop.

Germany has 1/4 the US population.  In the past week, Germany had 27 Covid deaths.  Multiply by 4 equals 108 for a US size pop.

In the past week, the US has had 6,387 Covid deaths.

Europe has almost completely neutralized its Covid problem by wearing masks and social distancing, instead of crying "Constitution!" and bragging that "nobody tells me to do nuthin" like we do over here.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/france

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/germany

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/united-states

The US has a lot of unhealthy fat people. Thats the reason for the higher numbers. 

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24 minutes ago, DJF71 said:

The US has a lot of unhealthy fat people. Thats the reason for the higher numbers. 

The average COVID death had 2.6 underlying conditions.

Old?  You're probably OK.

Old with diabetes?  Odds are in your favor.

Old with diabetes and heart disease?  Yeah, you should probably not go to a football game . . .

 

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20 minutes ago, DJF71 said:

The US has a lot of unhealthy fat people. Thats the reason for the higher numbers. 

We may be a little fatter than the Europeans, but that doesn't come close to explaining the difference.  So far, only about 35 out of 50 states even have mask laws, and quite a few governors have bragged that they don't believe they're necessary.  Even now.  We fall for online conspiracy theorists and similar whack jobs trying to tell us there is no pandemic, and too many people think they're standing for Truth, Justice, and The American Way when they don't wear a mask or social distance.  Here is just one example:

 

 

 

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We may be a little fatter than the Europeans, but that doesn't come close to explaining the difference.  So far, only about 35 out of 50 states even have mask laws, and quite a few governors have bragged that they don't believe they're necessary.  Even now.  We fall for online conspiracy theorists and similar whack jobs trying to tell us there is no pandemic, and too many people think they're standing for Truth, Justice, and The American Way when they don't wear a mask or social distance.  Here is just one example:
 
 
 

We are way fatter. And it’s not even close. This is a country of sloths. COVID kills the elderly and unhealthy it the high majority of cases.
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1 hour ago, OCCH23 said:

The average COVID death had 2.6 underlying conditions.

Old?  You're probably OK.

Old with diabetes?  Odds are in your favor.

Old with diabetes and heart disease?  Yeah, you should probably not go to a football game . . .

 

Anymore glossing over of 180,000 deaths while you're at it?

How do you know you don't have underlying conditions?  Half the people with diabetes don't even know it. A big percentage of people have other undiagnosed conditions.  Are you saying it's their own fault for catching Covid?

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10 minutes ago, DJF71 said:


We are way fatter. And it’s not even close. This is a country of sloths. COVID kills the elderly and unhealthy it the high majority of cases.

With all respect, that reads like you think Covid is something that's long overdue.

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I'm still picking up an inference that you care less about obese people dying than those of normal weight.

Regardless, your idea that obesity is causing the huge disparity in the number of deaths between Europe and the US is wrong.  Germany has 25% of their adult population obese, the US has 42%.  Yet, per capita, the US has 60 times the Covid deaths that Germany has.

The difference in obesity rates doesn't come close to explaining that death difference.

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16 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

I'm still picking up an inference that you care less about obese people dying than those of normal weight.

Regardless, your idea that obesity is causing the huge disparity in the number of deaths between Europe and the US is wrong.  Germany has 25% of their adult population obese, the US has 42%.  Yet, per capita, the US has 60 times the Covid deaths that Germany has.

The difference in obesity rates doesn't come close to explaining that death difference.

I'm just saying there are a lot of unhealthy people in America and the majority of them its their fault they are unhealthy.  Numbers would not even be close to what they have been if people took better care of themselves.  I know only 2 people that tested positive and neither of them died or even had a symptom.  Both were healthy kids.  

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Going into the causes of-and blame for-obesity is another discussion.  Fact is we are more obese than Germany, but not that much more.  25% of the adult population for them, 42% for us.  But per capita, we have 60 times the number of Covid  deaths the Germans have.  Clearly, the obesity rates of the two countries is not the major cause of the difference.

 

We have to stop listening to nutcases and their wacko theories, and start taking this virus seriously.  Because in many places, we have not. And things won't get better until we start scrupulously wearing masks and social distancing.  Or until a vaccine arrives.  Which, if we are lucky, will only be a few more months.


 

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Going into the causes of-and blame for-obesity is another discussion.  Fact is we are more obese than Germany, but not that much more.  25% of the adult population for them, 42% for us.  But per capita, we have 60 times the number of Covid  deaths the Germans have.  Clearly, the obesity rates of the two countries is not the major cause of the difference.
 
We have to stop listening to nutcases and their whacko theories, and start taking this virus seriously.  Because in many places, we have not. And things won't get better until we start scrupulously wearing masks and social distancing.  Or until a vaccine arrives.  Which, if we are lucky, will only be a few more months.

 

We are 4 times the size of Germany at 17% higher obesity. That’s a lot of people.
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11 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

"The Russians are out to get us!" but also "beware the conspiracy theorists!"

Actually, they are often one and the same. You're being played, my friend.

Re the 6% nonsense. Someone has to explain how we have over 200,000 excess deaths in 2020 already (7 months) over the previous three year averages. COVID was undercounted initially when the virus hit NY, and of course there have been certain states that have deliberately fudged the data to promote early re-opening. That went well, of course.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-excess-deaths-tally-in-the-us-is-204691-in-7-months-so-covid-19-deaths-might-be-undercounted-2020-08-13

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9 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

Not relevant, as I will show:

France has 1/5 the US population.  In the past week, France had 107 Covid deaths.  Multiply by 5 equals 535 for a US size pop.

Germany has 1/4 the US population.  In the past week, Germany had 27 Covid deaths.  Multiply by 4 equals 108 for a US size pop.

In the past week, the US has had 6,387 Covid deaths.

Europe has almost completely neutralized its Covid problem by wearing masks and social distancing, instead of crying "Constitution!" and bragging that "nobody tells me to do nuthin" like we do over here.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/france

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/germany

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/united-states

Wearing masks has not fixed this problem.  I know this is not a political board, but what is "fixing" the problem is actually multiple fold.  The virus has mutated, many times, not as severe.  Our therapies are now more advanced, more is known how to combat it, and most of all, we are moving closer to herd immunity, and this is something a political faction of the country tried to fight against, avoid getting to herd immunity.  The lockdowns were too far extended, they were politicized, info was politicized.   CDC just made a change in how they have certified Covid deaths...

Here is the bottomline as applicable to this thread, athletes have very little to no risk, there hasn't been one death of an active athlete due to covid.  With the protocols they have installed which makes sense, they should be playing.

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I was listening to Mark Packer’s radio show on Sirius and he brought up a statistic that there was actually a higher percentage chance of that asteroid that recently passed by earth, hitting earth,  than college aged football players dying from COVID.  
 

Personally, I do think much of this has been overblown and exaggerated.   How are all these people who have been working in the Walmart’s and supermarkets since this outbreak has started, not had any outbreaks or really any significant positive cases?   These people come into contact with hundreds of different people everyday, and there are probably 150-200 different people who work for these stores, yet we don’t hear about any issues with these workers.  
 

At some point we need to get back to living our lives, if you are high risk take precautions, there will never be zero risk of anything in this life.  

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14 hours ago, docdhc said:

SEC and ACC might get away with it but there is a real risk of myocarditis ( inflammation of the heart) with Covid. 12 cases of college football  players have gotten it already and it can be a life altering condition.  I just wish science and medicine rather than money and politics were driving the decisions but I know that is naive. 

Science and medicine aren't exactly independent from the pull of money and politics. 

Resumption of sports is one step closer towards normalcy. Challenge for administrators is finding that happy medium where they sustain awareness around the pandemic, while keeping commercial interests intact by resuming football season.

College football is too big a business to be shut down, but it'll likely resume in a very different form, just to drive home the message. 

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1 hour ago, JetsRay said:

Wearing masks has not fixed this problem.  I know this is not a political board, but what is "fixing" the problem is actually multiple fold.  The virus has mutated, many times, not as severe.  Our therapies are now more advanced, more is known how to combat it, and most of all, we are moving closer to herd immunity, and this is something a political faction of the country tried to fight against, avoid getting to herd immunity.  The lockdowns were too far extended, they were politicized, info was politicized.   CDC just made a change in how they have certified Covid deaths...

Here is the bottomline as applicable to this thread, athletes have very little to no risk, there hasn't been one death of an active athlete due to covid.  With the protocols they have installed which makes sense, they should be playing.

Wearing masks and social distancing have indeed limited exposure. No one I've ever heard said it "fixes the problem." We have pretty strong confirmation that not wearing a mask and congregating in closed environments does increase exposure substantially. Colleges are already reinforcing that reality. Indeed there are new strains of the virus and we know more today than we did six months ago about how to  treat it. That's the nature of science in facing something that is not well understood. Changes in recommendations over time reflect that process, not the insidious attempt by Fauci to game the public because he has Chinese investments nonsense. The herd immunity argument is actually a real human dilemma, not a political football. To get to even 40% immunity means a tremendous toll in excess deaths. Some would say that toll is worth it, some would say it's not. Rational people (I won't mention empathy) can make the case either way as long as they are willing to accept the consequences of each decision. Both have negative impact, Interestingly, in Sweden, which did a soft lockdown and sought herd immunity, it hasn't worked. They couldn't get the numbers to come close to 40%. Why? Because many people weren't willing to risk reckless engagement to be a guinea pig. Their nursing homes, on the other hand, had no such choice. Finally, if anything has been politicized egregiously it is the current administration's games with HHS and CDC reporting. When the administration didn't like what the CDC was saying, it muzzled Birks and Fauci, and trotted out the infamous Scott Atlas. Yes, somewhere in the country there will be a guy with nice credentials who is also a crackpot. Perfect. LInus Pauling won a Nobel Prize and he went off the deep end about Vitamin C. It happens. Brilliant guys get lost in their own intellectual bubble. Finally, COVID is not just about mortality; it's also about very serious sequelae even for young people. Athletes have reason for caution, whether they play or not.

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