Training Camp Tweets 9/2

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

it's just my hunch, that if this guy has knee swelling and they can't figure out why, combined with a history of knee problems, my hunch is that they're going to eventually do a scope if this swelling doesn't go down.  

This is 2020.  There hasn't been a need to do exploratory knee scopes in about 35 years. They have this technology called MRIs. Maybe you heard about it.  Perriman's MRI showed no structural knee damage.  They won't do a scope unless there is something to fix (torn meniscus). If there's ligament damage, that shows up on the MRI as well and that takes rest (unless it's torn).  Otherwise, if it's just soft tissue or joint swelling, it's cortisone, ice, draining, PT, rest and time.  I know you don't like the guy, but he's the potential #1 WR on a team that is razor thin at WR and IMO they are not rushing him on the field to play catch in shorts with Darnold at this point.

[Integrity28]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Reynolds would be a decent target for a late rounder if this is true.

Co-signed.

[Lupz27]

43 minutes ago, IndianaJet said:

 

Jameal who?

[Jetster]

3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Thanks but he was running routes in practice today. Just not against a DB. He will work up to that in the next 10 days which is MORE than enough time to be ready for week 1. Whether he will be ready for 10/20/50 pct of the snaps is up to the coaching staff. 

We’re gonna be running a lot anyway 

[Augustiniak]

15 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

This is 2020.  There hasn't been a need to do exploratory knee scopes in about 35 years. They have this technology called MRIs. Maybe you heard about it.  Perriman's MRI showed no structural knee damage.  They won't do a scope unless there is something to fix (torn meniscus). If there's ligament damage, that shows up on the MRI as well and that takes rest (unless it's torn).  Otherwise, if it's just soft tissue or joint swelling, it's cortisone, ice, draining, PT, rest and time.  I know you don't like the guy, but he's the potential #1 WR on a team that is razor thin at WR and IMO they are not rushing him on the field to play catch in shorts with Darnold at this point.

i'm allowed to have a hunch, and trust me, there's a lot of folks here who are thinking the same thing - that this guy may not be healthy that much this year.  I hope he is.  

[Embrace the Suck]

4 hours ago, kdels62 said:

 

[32EBoozer]

3 hours ago, nyjbuddy said:

Would he be another slot though?  Couple of players that seem like possibilities if they are cut are John Ross (speed, still young, injury prone and former first rounder) and Kenny Stills (played for Gase in Miami, got some speed on the outside).

$7m cap saving if Stills is cut. No guaranteed money. I would sign him especially with the Gase connection. But if Stills called out Ross in Miami for Trump donations, what the hell will he have to say about Woody( for Trump) Johnson?

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, Lupz27 said:

Jameal who?

Both Davis and McDougald came off as leaders and ballers in the One Jets Drive episode last week. Both are extremely driven. FS is actually more valuable than SS especially if one has range, speed and ball hawking ability. It can wreck and opposing offense.

[BigRy56]

Another bonecrusher day for Darnold

[GreekJet]

4 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Another bonecrusher day for Darnold

What did Robby Sabo have to say about Darnold today? 

[JohnnyLV]

4 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Let him run the Robby Anderson route Tree!

__________>_______________>_________________>_____________>______________>________________>

Mims is like gigantically underrated as a route runner. Just because he didnt at his college doesnt mean he cant. In fact, believe it or not PFF actually grades Senior Bowl WR 1 on 1s AND it has been one of the most predictive metrics they have for success in the NFL. And Mims has the highest rating ever. FWIW they also predicted he would drop because of the school he played at. Mims could be an All Pro monster in the NFL. And he has the "Rodgers" chip from being selected where he was. See below, its exciting.

 

 

[JohnnyLV]

8 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Another bonecrusher day for Darnold

Is that good or bad?

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

7 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Mims is like gigantically underrated as a route runner. Just because he didnt at his college doesnt mean he cant. In fact, believe it or not PFF actually grades Senior Bowl WR 1 on 1s AND it has been one of the most predictive metrics they have for success in the NFL. And Mims has the highest rating ever. FWIW they also predicted he would drop because of the school he played at. Mims could be an All Pro monster in the NFL. And he has the "Rodgers" chip from being selected where he was. See below, its exciting.

 

 

Really? Man I must not recognize that stuff, cuz that video doesn’t seem all that impressive to me. 
As long as he’s getting open and getting touchdowns!

[section314]

25 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

What did Robby Sabo have to say about Darnold today? 

Checking down too quickly.?

[pdxgreen]

2 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Jameal who?

Getting a real Chrebet vibe with that qoute.  Under Wayne's yearbook info for interests.  It just says: "workout on in the off-season" and "playing football."

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

6 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

He's giddy with excitment over getting Manish banned from the NFL.

Maccagnan....Manish....even if he doesn’t coach well this year...got to love the guy.

[pdxgreen]

Jets XFactor was dope today.  Sabo has got me pumped.  Nothing you can say Costello.  Try again next week.  Buddy!

 

[jetstream23]

4 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Mims is like gigantically underrated as a route runner. Just because he didnt at his college doesnt mean he cant. In fact, believe it or not PFF actually grades Senior Bowl WR 1 on 1s AND it has been one of the most predictive metrics they have for success in the NFL. And Mims has the highest rating ever. FWIW they also predicted he would drop because of the school he played at. Mims could be an All Pro monster in the NFL. And he has the "Rodgers" chip from being selected where he was. See below, its exciting.

 

 

 

Dude, you buried this gem of a post on page 5 of a 9/2 training camp tweet thread??? lol  This literally blew my mind.  The part I highlighted in blue stopped me in my tracks.  I read it three times.  Do you have any more info on this?  I'd love to see a table of the Senior Bowl WR 1v1 grades and match that up against eventual NFL performance.  Have they been doing this for a while?  I obviously had no clue. This belongs in some type of sticky thread data bank we have in the Draft Forum.

Moving on to Mims, I agree with you.  He got knocked for two primary things if I remember right - a limited route tree and a high number of drops.  The drops were never a concern for me because it was only during one relatively long stretch of games where he had some type of hand injury he was playing through.  If was a red flag for some teams but digging deeper it seems like most analysts chalked up his drops to having a hand only 70% recovered from injury.  The routes he ran were a concern not because we thought he couldn't run other routes, but simply because he hadn't been seen running those routes.  He seemed to be limited by the scheme and playbook.  To some degree it's a similar argument with Becton.  A concern with Mekhi was that he didn't have a lot of pure pass blocking sets on film.  It doesn't mean he can't passblock, it's just that the rep count wasn't as high as you'd like in order to really evaluate him in that area.  Both guys, similar deal....it's not that they CAN'T do a certain thing, just that they weren't asked to do those things a lot in college.

Finally, how about the irony of Mims playing under Matt Rhule at Baylor.  The same Matt Rhule the Jets didn't hire as HC.  The Jets then draft Mims after Robby Anderson leaves for Carolina where he will play for....Matt Rhule.  Weird.

Required tagging of @Paradis simply because I mentioned the word Mims at least 4 times in one post....and I'm interested in his take on this PFF Senior Bowl WR grade thing.  Maybe I'm on the only one who didn't know about this??

 

[Paradis]

7 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Dude, you buried this gem of a post on page 5 of a 9/2 training camp tweet thread??? lol  This literally blew my mind.  The part I highlighted in blue stopped me in my tracks.  I read it three times.  Do you have any more info on this?  I'd love to see a table of the Senior Bowl WR 1v1 grades and match that up against eventual NFL performance.  Have they been doing this for a while?  I obviously had no clue. This belongs in some type of sticky thread data bank we have in the Draft Forum.

Moving on to Mims, I agree with you.  He got knocked for two primary things if I remember right - a limited route tree and a high number of drops.  The drops were never a concern for me because it was only during one relatively long stretch of games where he had some type of hand injury he was playing through.  If was a red flag for some teams but digging deeper it seems like most analysts chalked up his drops to having a hand only 70% recovered from injury.  The routes he ran were a concern not because we thought he couldn't run other routes, but simply because he hadn't been seen running those routes.  He seemed to be limited by the scheme and playbook.  To some degree it's a similar argument with Becton.  A concern with Mekhi was that he didn't have a lot of pure pass blocking sets on film.  It doesn't mean he can't passblock, it's just that the rep count wasn't as high as you'd like in order to really evaluate him in that area.  Both guys, similar deal....it's not that they CAN'T do a certain thing, just that they weren't asked to do those things a lot in college.

Finally, how about the irony of Mims playing under Matt Rhule at Baylor.  The same Matt Rhule the Jets didn't hire as HC.  The Jets then draft Mims after Robby Anderson leaves for Carolina where he will play for....Matt Rhule.  Weird.

Required tagging of @Paradis simply because I mentioned the word Mims at least 4 times in one post....and I'm interested in his take on this PFF Senior Bowl WR grade thing.  Maybe I'm on the only one who didn't know about this??

 

there was a circle jerk back in feb over this footage....you uhh.....shoulda been there lol 

We were all salivating over his 1 on 1 work with DBs at the SB. If I remember correctly, he was debateably the best player on offense at the event, period.  I was sure he was a round 1 lock afterwards.

[JohnnyLV]

27 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

Dude, you buried this gem of a post on page 5 of a 9/2 training camp tweet thread??? lol  This literally blew my mind.  The part I highlighted in blue stopped me in my tracks.  I read it three times.  Do you have any more info on this?  I'd love to see a table of the Senior Bowl WR 1v1 grades and match that up against eventual NFL performance.  Have they been doing this for a while?  I obviously had no clue. This belongs in some type of sticky thread data bank we have in the Draft Forum.

Moving on to Mims, I agree with you.  He got knocked for two primary things if I remember right - a limited route tree and a high number of drops.  The drops were never a concern for me because it was only during one relatively long stretch of games where he had some type of hand injury he was playing through.  If was a red flag for some teams but digging deeper it seems like most analysts chalked up his drops to having a hand only 70% recovered from injury.  The routes he ran were a concern not because we thought he couldn't run other routes, but simply because he hadn't been seen running those routes.  He seemed to be limited by the scheme and playbook.  To some degree it's a similar argument with Becton.  A concern with Mekhi was that he didn't have a lot of pure pass blocking sets on film.  It doesn't mean he can't passblock, it's just that the rep count wasn't as high as you'd like in order to really evaluate him in that area.  Both guys, similar deal....it's not that they CAN'T do a certain thing, just that they weren't asked to do those things a lot in college.

Finally, how about the irony of Mims playing under Matt Rhule at Baylor.  The same Matt Rhule the Jets didn't hire as HC.  The Jets then draft Mims after Robby Anderson leaves for Carolina where he will play for....Matt Rhule.  Weird.

Required tagging of @Paradis simply because I mentioned the word Mims at least 4 times in one post....and I'm interested in his take on this PFF Senior Bowl WR grade thing.  Maybe I'm on the only one who didn't know about this??

 

Here is the PFF article:

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-denzel-mims-is-an-under-the-radar-potential-superstar-among-the-loaded-2020-nfl-wide-receiver-draft-class

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

there was a circle jerk back in feb over this footage....you uhh.....shoulda been there lol 

We were all salivating over his 1 on 1 work with DBs at the SB. If I remember correctly, he was debateably the best player on offense at the event, period.  I was sure he was a round 1 lock afterwards.

 

1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

Here is the PFF article:

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-denzel-mims-is-an-under-the-radar-potential-superstar-among-the-loaded-2020-nfl-wide-receiver-draft-class

I do remember that thread but I'm talking more about the correlation between PFF grades during Senior Bowl 1 vs 1's (which is a really specific thing to measure) and predicting NFL success.

 

[RobR]

3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

 

I do remember that thread but I'm talking more about the correlation between PFF grades during Senior Bowl 1 vs 1's (which is a really specific thing to measure) and predicting NFL success.

 

PFF grades during the Senior Bowl are useless and even I wasn't aware that they went that far. As someone who likes to post in the Draft Forum I do hold players that excel in the SB in high regard as prospects because they normally pan out at the NFL level and also vice versa with players who struggle. 

I think most scouts will agree that the practices are more important than the game so I'm still wavering how a crap org. like PFF can put a grade on practices.  

[ECURB]

18 hours ago, shuler82 said:

Feels like something he should be able to play through, but I don't see him being on the practice field very often. 

He is a lock for WR1 so he is getting the veteran rest right now while they look at other WRs

once they are installing game plan he will practice 

[Jetsfan80]

8 hours ago, RobR said:

PFF grades during the Senior Bowl are useless and even I wasn't aware that they went that far. As someone who likes to post in the Draft Forum I do hold players that excel in the SB in high regard as prospects because they normally pan out at the NFL level and also vice versa with players who struggle. 

I think most scouts will agree that the practices are more important than the game so I'm still wavering how a crap org. like PFF can put a grade on practices.  

 

The article posted has a tantalizing paragraph stating they do just that; grade Senior Bowl practice performance.  But I don't have an account so I can't see the rest.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-denzel-mims-is-an-under-the-radar-potential-superstar-among-the-loaded-2020-nfl-wide-receiver-draft-class

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The article posted has a tantalizing paragraph stating they do just that; grade Senior Bowl practice performance.  But I don't have an account so I can't see the rest.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-denzel-mims-is-an-under-the-radar-potential-superstar-among-the-loaded-2020-nfl-wide-receiver-draft-class

he 2020 NFL Draft features one of the strongest groups of wide receivers ever, and with so many potential stars available some players are going to be overlooked and underrated more than they would in an ordinary year. Denzel Mims is the most likely candidate — he may be the most under-the-radar potential superstar of the group.

Mims posted good PFF grades (81.9 overall) and numbers (66 catches for 1,015 yards and 12 touchdowns) in his final season at Baylor, but he also had a spectacular postseason — or pre-draft period — which ultimately does move the needle in terms of a player’s projection.

SENIOR BOWL STANDOUT

The Senior Bowl is a fascinating avenue for players heading into the NFL. Often, watching a player’s college tape can leave many unanswered questions about strength of competition, but the Senior Bowl answers a lot of those. The game itself is largely irrelevant, but the week of practices pits prospects against each other in an all-star scenario where strength of competition is no longer a factor. It’s also a week of reps that don’t typically see the light of day otherwise, so it provides a different perspective on players than their college game tape.

Any player who consistently wins in that environment displays a strong indicator for NFL success. PFF has been grading the Senior Bowl practices since 2016, and whether you look at raw PFF grade per snap or win rate in the one-on-one drills (effectively a separation metric), Denzel Mims had the best performance of any player over the past five years.

 

Mims earned the highest raw grade of any receiver we’ve seen, did it at a better rate than anyone and had separation on 94% of his one-on-one routes over the course of the week. The Senior Bowl isn’t everything, obviously, but it has put up an early indicator on players like Terry McLaurin, Deebo Samuel, Michael Gallup and Cooper Kupp, who all made extremely smooth transitions to the NFL.

In addition to separating himself from his peers in an all-star setting, Mims has physical tools that some of the other receivers don’t — whether that’s previous Senior Bowl attendees or receivers in this draft class. At 6-foot-3 and 215 pounds, he is a physically imposing build, but he added significant intrigue at the NFL Combine, where he ran a 4.38 40-yard dash, jumped well and posted an absurd 6.66-second three-cone time.

Mims now needs to be seen as an athlete who ranks in the 95th percentile of NFL athletes as well as a player with high-end football skills. That’s a potentially dominant combination.

Something that might also suppress his draft stock is the recent history of Baylor wide receivers who have entered the league. In truth, the lingering negative feel of that history is mostly confined to Corey Coleman, who was drafted in 2016, but he was one of the bigger and more immediate draft busts in recent memory and will cast a long shadow. Much of the concern about Coleman coming out was how he would translate to the NFL given the spartan route tree he ran at Baylor, considering all of the additional routes he would need to master in any NFL offense.

That was a real factor under the previous regime and may have played a significant part in Coleman’s disastrous NFL stint, but Matt Rhule’s offense was far more conventional and asked more of its receivers from a route tree standpoint.

In 2015, Coleman spent 76.5% of his snaps lined up at left wide receiver, regardless of the formation, personnel grouping or play. Add in the slot, and 92% of his snaps came from the left side. In terms of routes, 103 of his 116 targets came on just four routes (screens, hitches, slants and go balls). Nearly two-thirds of his targets were on either hitches or go routes — which is one of the barest route trees you will ever find from a top receiver prospect.

Mims, by contrast, moved around the formation and had a more varied route tree within the Baylor offense this past season. While a large percentage of his targets can still be apportioned to just those four buckets (77% in his case), that’s a notable reduction from Coleman. And one of the most impressive parts about Mims' game is his knowledge of the system and the roles within it. Mims has reportedly interviewed very well in the pre-draft process, and when he recently spoke to PFF’s Austin Gayle, he said, “I really know every position on the field. I know what to expect. I know what I want to do and I have a game plan of each route… I know my game. I know my stuff.”

HANDS AND HIGH-LEVEL INSTINCTS

 

When you throw on his tape, it’s hard not to see things to like right off the bat. Mims is a natural hands catcher. That sounds obvious, but he doesn’t fight the ball the way some receivers do. He routinely catches it away from his body, even when faced with traffic, and does it effortlessly. I went to find a good example of this on his tape and came away with a full highlight reel of them just from the Kansas State game, and I could have used more from that game.

That ability to extend his hands and snag catches away from his body and away from defenders is a vital part of playing at the next level, but he’s also excellent at some of the more subtle aspects of playing wide receiver that are far more veteran in nature.

At times, we tend to think of receiver route running and coverage play as non-contact enterprises, where any kind of contact is a penalty or pass interference of some kind. But the reality is most of that interplay involves a lot of contact, and understanding how to use that and win battles can generate (or prevent) separation. Randy Moss was fast enough to just run right past defenders deep, but his highlight reel is also stuffed full of subtle movements downfield to gain separation as the ball arrives.

Even the fastest players in the league are at the mercy of the quarterback’s accuracy a lot of the time, and if the pass undoes the separation you generated by speeding past the corner, you need to be able to reclaim it at the catch point. Mims can do that, and he shows some really sophisticated hand use as he works throughout his route and at the catch point.

Take this play from the Senior Bowl as an example. Mims not only defeats the jam at the line simply because he’s longer than the corner trying to cover him — getting into the corner’s chest and effectively shedding the contact as if he was the defender on the play — but he then ensures he has space to work at the end of the play by backing him up with his hand and then extending back into the free space to make the catch.

I’m not even sure if this is a skill that can be easily taught, but it’s one that is incredibly useful to receivers because of how symbiotic the relationship they have with the quarterback downfield is. If the pass is anything less than perfect in-stride, which most are, then the receiver needs to have the skills to prevent a corner from not just getting back in phase with him but actively blanketing him physically and making it too tough to make the catch. Mims is excellent at maintaining enough personal space to adjust to the football and catch it cleanly away from the defender in a way few receivers are. These are plays that other receivers would allow to become contested catches — a situation inherently less efficient for the receiver — but Mims secures the ball without that fight at the catch point because of his subtle hand use.

Overall, it’s hard to find much fault in Mims’ game. He has dropped more passes than you would like to see (24 in his college career, a drop rate of 11.4%) but can make spectacular catches and was very solid in that regard at the Senior Bowl. His production could have been higher, but so could the number of passes thrown his way in college.

All in all, Mims projects to be a better NFL player than he was in college, and he belongs in the top echelon of wide receivers in what is already a spectacular class of talent at the position. I think there is a very real argument that he should be taken in the middle of the first round after the duo of CeeDee Lamb and Jerry Jeudy.