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Training Camp Tweets 9/3


kdels62
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1 hour ago, varjet said:

I remember reading how Doug Marrone ran a really hard, physical Jaguars camp.  That led to a hardened team going to the AFCCG.  Then that team all unraveled.

I think the plan now is to only really hit on Sundays.  If you get hurt, grab another player to replace you.  If you want a contract next year, you find a way to get back in.

I am not sure what the better plan is.  

These guys get paid A LOT of money. I think they should practice harder than what we see now. But that’s just me. I hope the games are not injury fest sloppy slapdick football games but we will see. 

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15 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

I think Ashtyn Davis takes the KR job from the start and never gives it up. 

 

13 minutes ago, Lith said:

Forgot about him on Specials.  You are probably right.

 

Maybe.  I just worry about having a key starter returning kicks when that job can easily go to a more dispensable player.  

I think Davis ends up a 16-game starter at FS for us, and, as bold/homerish as it is to say, a DROY candidate.

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I think Hogan makes the team over Moncrief.

I think Moncrief needs to show exceptionally in the short period of time he was here, otherwise he was essentially a vet camp body.  Hogan knows the offense and with very little in the way of practice time available for these guys, someone who can plug and play gets the nod.

Perriman

Mims

Crowder

Berrios

Hogan 

All these guys are locks IMO.

The remaining 1-2 spots will go to healthy guys that JD thinks will get picked off if he tries to send them to the practice squad.

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3 hours ago, mrcoops said:

We can't IR him by rule, as his injury wasn't suffered this year. Can't keep him on PUTP without ruling him out for 6 weeks.

So, given that he's projected to be ready by week 3, he's probably going to be on the 53.

I believe in this pandemic league any players can come back from IR after 3 weeks, but only if declared after this Sat. Doesn't matter the reason and again no limit on how many players this can be done with. If that is the case just put him on the short term IR for 3 weeks since he has to miss at least 2 games according to his medical clearance which already stated he has to miss at least the first 2 games. 

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2 hours ago, mrcoops said:

Apparently, we can't do that as his injury is pre-existing. I read about it this morning, I'll try to find the article.

Edit: found it:

https://amp.northjersey.com/amp/5700608002?__twitter_impression=true

Here's the relevant bit:

Quarterback

Initial roster (4): Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, James Morgan, David Fales 

Why: Flacco is going to be Darnold's backup, but not to start the season. ESPN reported that Flacco, recovering from neck surgery in April, is targeting a Week 3 return if all goes well with a Sept. 10 checkup. The Jets can't put Flacco on IR, which would allow him to play Week 4, because he was injured before this season. And if they leave him on PUP, he wouldn't be eligible to return until Week 7. So the best option is to keep him on the roster until he's ready to go. 

So the Jets will have to carry four quarterbacks for the first several weeks of the season, which isn't ideal. It's too risky to pass Morgan, a fourth-round pick, through waivers and onto the practice squad. Fales has been outplayed by Mike White during training camp, but his experience and familiarity with Gase's offense earns him the short-term backup job.

OK, so Whit on PS and we have to keep 4 QBs on the roster likely pushing us to keep only 3 TEs i.e we lose Brown who could actually be on the PS squad or have the other TE T. Davis there if Brown signs with another team. We need 6-7 WRs since we have had too many injuries there and depending on Perine if healthy we likely go with 3 RBs and again can put RB Adams and another maybe on the PS squad that is now a total of 16 players allowed. This Offense has to have many backup players on the active roster and PS squad or we will be in trouble real fast.  

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18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think it does.  Special Teams are still important in the NFL, even if kickoffs mean a lot less than they used to.  Having versatile guys all over the roster allows you the flexibility to keep some other players you wouldn't be able to otherwise.  

Donte Moncrief has never really been a capable WR, and he only just arrived.  Why would he be "appreciably better" at WR than any of the other guys on the team?  He has no tangible relationship with Darnold yet, meaning he'd essentially have no role in the first several weeks of the season.

Don't ask me. Your hypothetical. I don't think it matters that we're talking about Moncrief and Chesson specifically. The problem isn't that five of the six guys don't play special teams. The problem is that all six of them have been hurt. Whoever makes the team besides or instead, it will be 100% based on potentially having to play a whole lot right away on offense and 0% on covering punts. Of course it probably won't be Monrcrief. Moncrief is terrible. 

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48 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Maybe.  I just worry about having a key starter returning kicks when that job can easily go to a more dispensable player.  

I think Davis ends up a 16-game starter at FS for us, and, as bold/homerish as it is to say, a DROY candidate.

Definitely bold and pretty homerish, but i think by the end of year 2 and certainly by year 3 he will be one of the top cover safeties in the NFL.

Ashtyn just seems like he gets it, very hard worker and he's gifted physically so i'm excited to see him play.

I was snooping around his instagram and interviews and one thing that stood out besides him being a stand up guy, was an interviewer asked him what he does on his free time and what his hobbies are. He basically answered by saying he has no hobbies at the moment besides football. That kind of attitude plus the positive camp reports make me feel like we got a good one. JD absolutely nailed that Leo trade.

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Regarding the WRs, you have to think that there's a guy who will be on the 53 who is not yet on this team.

There's going to be a purge of WRs on Saturday from other NFL teams.  13 WR's were taken in the first 2 rounds alone, and a total of 37 throughout the whole draft.  If the majority of them make active rosters (as I'd expect) then that will push out veterans to the waiver wire. And, if a handful get pushed to Practice Squads then they'd be available for the taking but would need to be put on the Jets active 53.

This is a reason why I said in another thread that I think the only truly safe guys are Crowder, Perriman, Mims and Hogan.  Hogan because of his availability and veteran status.  As much as I'd like to be 100% sure Berrios makes the team because of his PR abilities, I have to think the Jets might be open to replacing him if another guy springs loose from a team that we might not expect.  Familiarity with the offense is the only thing giving guys like Berrios, Chesson, Malone a fighting chance.  Whether that chance is 50%, 20% or whatever....I don't know.  But I do know if guys like Hakeem Butler and Phillip Dorsett are springing loose it makes the decision much more difficult.

If Joe D is playing the long game here the question becomes whether he's willing to upgrade the prospect/talent (maybe a Butler over someone like a Chesson) at the expense of the near term (Week 1, 2) readiness of the team.  If that's the case then the Jets passing game in the near term will have to be "manufactured" out of guys like Crowder, Bell, Herndon with less reliability on the outside WRs.

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Back to today's practice..... Unless there's a reported new injury then I have no concern with guys like McDougald getting some rest.  The Jets are likely being cautious and also need other guys to get reps so they can make tough decisions for cuts.

We will really know who is likely to play in Week 1 based on who practices Monday.  That's the day the rubber meets the road.  It would not be totally surprising to me if ALL of the WRs practiced (maybe 1 or 2 of them "limited participants").  I'm cautiously optimistic that Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Hogan, Berrios will all have helmets on for Monday.  Let's cross our fingers.

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33 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Regarding the WRs, you have to think that there's a guy who will be on the 53 who is not yet on this team.

There's going to be a purge of WRs on Saturday from other NFL teams.  13 WR's were taken in the first 2 rounds alone, and a total of 37 throughout the whole draft.  If the majority of them make active rosters (as I'd expect) then that will push out veterans to the waiver wire. And, if a handful get pushed to Practice Squads then they'd be available for the taking but would need to be put on the Jets active 53.

This is a reason why I said in another thread that I think the only truly safe guys are Crowder, Perriman, Mims and Hogan.  Hogan because of his availability and veteran status.  As much as I'd like to be 100% sure Berrios makes the team because of his PR abilities, I have to think the Jets might be open to replacing him if another guy springs loose from a team that we might not expect.  Familiarity with the offense is the only thing giving guys like Berrios, Chesson, Malone a fighting chance.  Whether that chance is 50%, 20% or whatever....I don't know.  But I do know if guys like Hakeem Butler and Phillip Dorsett are springing loose it makes the decision much more difficult.

If Joe D is playing the long game here the question becomes whether he's willing to upgrade the prospect/talent (maybe a Butler over someone like a Chesson) at the expense of the near term (Week 1, 2) readiness of the team.  If that's the case then the Jets passing game in the near term will have to be "manufactured" out of guys like Crowder, Bell, Herndon with less reliability on the outside WRs.

I don't think Hogan is safe. He was brought in only because of injuries. I'd rather keep the young guy with upside than a veteran 5th receiver

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59 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Had we done 10-12 full pads practices half the team would be on long/short term IR. We have to save it for the games and see how it goes.

So it's better that they get injured during the season?  Because that's just what will happen when these athletes are not used to absorbing impact. 

This philosophy reminds me of strict pitch counts in baseball.   Intended to prevent injury yet pitchers get injured more frequently now than ever before.

 

 

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

Regarding the WRs, you have to think that there's a guy who will be on the 53 who is not yet on this team.

There's going to be a purge of WRs on Saturday from other NFL teams.  13 WR's were taken in the first 2 rounds alone, and a total of 37 throughout the whole draft.  If the majority of them make active rosters (as I'd expect) then that will push out veterans to the waiver wire. And, if a handful get pushed to Practice Squads then they'd be available for the taking but would need to be put on the Jets active 53.

This is a reason why I said in another thread that I think the only truly safe guys are Crowder, Perriman, Mims and Hogan.  Hogan because of his availability and veteran status.  As much as I'd like to be 100% sure Berrios makes the team because of his PR abilities, I have to think the Jets might be open to replacing him if another guy springs loose from a team that we might not expect.  Familiarity with the offense is the only thing giving guys like Berrios, Chesson, Malone a fighting chance.  Whether that chance is 50%, 20% or whatever....I don't know.  But I do know if guys like Hakeem Butler and Phillip Dorsett are springing loose it makes the decision much more difficult.

If Joe D is playing the long game here the question becomes whether he's willing to upgrade the prospect/talent (maybe a Butler over someone like a Chesson) at the expense of the near term (Week 1, 2) readiness of the team.  If that's the case then the Jets passing game in the near term will have to be "manufactured" out of guys like Crowder, Bell, Herndon with less reliability on the outside WRs.

There could also be a scenario that some teams who are cutting high talent ($) vets will be working the phones to see if JD wants to throw a pick/ player their way to avoid waiver miss.

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

I don't think Hogan is safe. He was brought in only because of injuries. I'd rather keep the young guy with upside than a veteran 5th receiver

I agree with the younger/future move being the wiser investment for the future, but Hogan might just be one of the only healthy outside WRs we have right now.  Again, not sure whether Perriman and Mims are ready for Week 1 and I don't think we'd want Berrios out there too often at the X or Z spots (he seems more like a slot/Y).  How do we balance near term needs for Week 1 with the smarter longterm decisions that should be made for the WR group as a whole?

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4 hours ago, varjet said:

I remember reading how Doug Marrone ran a really hard, physical Jaguars camp.  That led to a hardened team going to the AFCCG.  Then that team all unraveled.

I think the plan now is to only really hit on Sundays.  If you get hurt, grab another player to replace you.  If you want a contract next year, you find a way to get back in.

I am not sure what the better plan is.  

Its a multi billion dollar league where everyone makes a huge profit off of their product, which is their players.  Id bet the house the owners, protecting their billions have researched this to the nines and as much as fans refuse to believe it they've cut practices and the anount of hitting through the years in a way that protects their product and keeps the cash flow moving.  Its no coincidence or players being babies, theyre forced to sit and be ultra safe with pulls so they dont become long lasting tears

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3 hours ago, JetFreak89 said:

I think Ashtyn Davis takes the KR job from the start and never gives it up. 

 

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Maybe.  I just worry about having a key starter returning kicks when that job can easily go to a more dispensable player.  

I think Davis ends up a 16-game starter at FS for us, and, as bold/homerish as it is to say, a DROY candidate.

See Jason Sehorn 

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3 hours ago, Lith said:

Good thought.  Have to assume a 6/7 WR spot will go to a young guy who contributes on STs.  Not having a chance to see pre-season games, we don't know who is getting opportunities as a gunner, or other spots on STs.  I assume Berrios would return both punts and kicks, at least until V Smith returns when he takes over the KR role.  Here are my guesses on WRs:

  • Perriman
  • Mims
  • Crowder
  • Berrios
  • Hogan
  • Moncrief
  • Special Teamer (no way of knowing who)
  • Cager (PS)
  • V Smith (IR -- replaces Hogan or Moncrief when healthy)

I would not be shocked if one of Hogan or Moncrief gets cut and we go with a younger guy with upside.

 

I think one of Hogan/Moncrief absolutely get cut, and I bet it will be Hogan; older, less upside, more of a Crowder/Berrios type than Moncrief, who brings a different skillset to the table. I would expect Cager or Jeff Smith to take that last WR spot, and I imagine that either would play specials

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It’s comical how short these practices actually are now.   

Right on man. I don’t even understand how anything actually gets done. It seems less intense than my old tackle games on sat morning in the Torn.
The NFL has become so pussified. I hate that I’m imprisoned here like I am


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
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2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I agree with the younger/future move being the wiser investment for the future, but Hogan might just be one of the only healthy outside WRs we have right now.  Again, not sure whether Perriman and Mims are ready for Week 1 and I don't think we'd want Berrios out there too often at the X or Z spots (he seems more like a slot/Y).  How do we balance near term needs for Week 1 with the smarter longterm decisions that should be made for the WR group as a whole?

My gut tells me that Perriman, Cager and Mims are all ready week one. I think all would play this week if there is a game Sunday. I know we always get carried away and fall in love with a couple UDFA types every year, but Cager's upside is huge, AND it seems like he is a really hard worker. I don't want to lose that so we can have a veteran for a year. If needed Hogan will still be there to resign week 2 and his contract wont be guaranteed for when Vyncint comes back

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8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Maybe.  I just worry about having a key starter returning kicks when that job can easily go to a more dispensable player.  

I think Davis ends up a 16-game starter at FS for us, and, as bold/homerish as it is to say, a DROY candidate.

Agree. Jason Seahorn ring a bell to anyone?

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5 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

I think one of Hogan/Moncrief absolutely get cut, and I bet it will be Hogan; older, less upside, more of a Crowder/Berrios type than Moncrief, who brings a different skillset to the table. I would expect Cager or Jeff Smith to take that last WR spot, and I imagine that either would play specials

Where do you get Hogan being a Crowder/Berrios type?  He's 6'1" 215.   He's fast and strong.  I get the whole stereotyping Patriots WR, but he is no Welker/Edelman.  They actually drafted Berrios for that role.  Hogan did play some slot for the Pats, but I think he is mostly an outside guy.  Crazy career path where he played lacrosse for 3 years at Penn State and then graduated and took his remaining year of eligibility playing both ways at Monmouth.  Guy is not limited to slot like some of these characters.

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