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Joe Judge rips teams effort-restarts practice


GreekJet

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At the end of the day, all that matters in their record. Perhaps it could work. Perhaps it could go down in flames. Personally, I can't see the worst team in the NFL getting any worse, and it looks like the players are on-board with his approach, so we'll see how he pans out.

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48 minutes ago, Maxman said:

If this turns into a race discussion I am going to have to move this to the club.

I think there is enough content here for us to discuss that the Giants are stupid and this was a terrible hire. 

I wish our franchise could stupid itself to 4 Superbowl titles.

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I wish our franchise could stupid itself to 4 Superbowl titles.

That doesn't make the hiring of Gettleman and Judge any less stupid.  They're objectively bad choices for a multitude of reasons.  Gettleman has already demonstrated his ineptitude as a GM.  Judge will be next.

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That doesn't make the hiring of Gettleman and Judge any less stupid.  They're objectively bad choices for a multitude of reasons.  Gettleman has already demonstrated his ineptitude as a GM.  Judge will be next.

If Daniel Jones is legit then Gettleman's Giants' tenure might be looked at quite differently than previously expected.  A couple of friends of mine who are Giants' fans are also pretty optimistic about their draft this year too.  I guess we'll see.

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9 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If Daniel Jones is legit then Gettleman's Giants' tenure might be looked at quite differently than previously expected.  A couple of friends of mine who are Giants' fans are also pretty optimistic about their draft this year too.  I guess we'll see.

An enormous if, and nothing we know about him to date has really demonstrated he is or will be. 

Even if he fixes his fumbling issues he really was nothing more than a dink and dunk guy last year, demonstrating fairly subpar accuracy when forced to go intermediary/deep.  Which jives with his college profile coming out of school.

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If the guy can judge his talent, coach it up and has the X's and O's and is flexible enough to out scheme his opponents to take advantage of the mismatch's he will be successful.  If he doesn't have that all the rest is just noise.

The great NFL HC had disciplined players and game planned them to victory.  Lombardi, Walsh, Stram, BB all were guys who had different styles in dealing with players but in the end what made them successful is they were good judges of talent, coached the talent up and put them in position to exploit subtle mismatches.  

I wouldn't make any judgement on his style.  It really doesn't matter.  

 

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38 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If the guy can judge his talent, coach it up and has the X's and O's and is flexible enough to out scheme his opponents to take advantage of the mismatch's he will be successful.  If he doesn't have that all the rest is just noise.

The great NFL HC had disciplined players and game planned them to victory.  Lombardi, Walsh, Stram, BB all were guys who had different styles in dealing with players but in the end what made them successful is they were good judges of talent, coached the talent up and put them in position to exploit subtle mismatches.  

I wouldn't make any judgement on his style.  It really doesn't matter.  

 

There’s a big enough pipeline of talent to sacrifice talent for guys willing to buy into a system in which the coach wants. Letting the coach stick with this and the organization managing the cringey pro player media blowback it can work. Assuming he can coach obviously.

Pat Riley running the Heat. Trust the process and hire people who want to win.

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On 9/11/2020 at 4:37 AM, T0mShane said:

Gettleman hired the hugest Woody Hayes a$$hole he could find because he’s an embarrassing fossil and then the Mara family wisely overpaid for Jason Garrett to be the HC in waiting so they can punt Gettleman and Judge together with relative ease. 

 

The unfortunate reality - and this affects the Jets as well - is that, at any given moment in time, there's only...so many good players, and only so many good coaches. The vast majority - if not all - are taken, and off-limits. 

 

A bit like how it is with women, the good ones are usually taken, or committed. So what do you do when your crush is off-limits? 

 

You gotta wait it out. Either get a side-chick or fling. Or in this case, a placeholder coach. Somebody that does the bare minimum - cooking and cleaning, without making a mess around the house - and you wait for your opportunity. 

 

Garrett isn't a good coach, but he makes a fine placeholder. NFL vet, knows the job, knows the division, and follows orders. Until the next Belichick or parcells is available, he'll do. 

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49 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

There’s a big enough pipeline of talent to sacrifice talent for guys willing to buy into a system in which the coach wants. Letting the coach stick with this and the organization managing the cringey pro player media blowback it can work. Assuming he can coach obviously.

Pat Riley running the Heat. Trust the process and hire people who want to win.

I never believed in systems winning football games consistently at the NFL level.  The NFL is about matchups.  It's the coaches who are flexible enough and nuanced enough to exploit those matchups on a weekly basis that win consistently.   It's the "if he can coach" part that will make him or break him.  The style is mostly noise.  

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45 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

The unfortunate reality - and this affects the Jets as well - is that, at any given moment in time, there's only...so many good players, and only so many good coaches. The vast majority - if not all - are taken, and off-limits. 

 

A bit like how it is with women, the good ones are usually taken, or committed. So what do you do when your crush is off-limits? 

 

You gotta wait it out. Either get a side-chick or fling. Or in this case, a placeholder coach. Somebody that does the bare minimum - cooking and cleaning, without making a mess around the house - and you wait for your opportunity. 

 

Garrett isn't a good coach, but he makes a fine placeholder. NFL vet, knows the job, knows the division, and follows orders. Until the next Belichick or parcells is available, he'll do. 

Dallas used him as a placeholder for like a decade and ended up with Mike McCarthy.

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1 minute ago, Biggs said:

I never believed in systems winning football games consistently at the NFL level.  The NFL is about matchups.  It's the coaches who are flexible enough and nuanced enough to exploit those matchups on a weekly basis that win consistently.   It's the "if he can coach" part that will make him or break him.  The style is mostly noise.  

I agree with you but I get the feeling that many NFL coaches force their teams into the systems that they (meaning the coaches) are familiar with.  So often, teams have to dump personnel because HC plays a different scheme.  That never made sense to me but it seems to just be the way it is.

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43 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I never believed in systems winning football games consistently at the NFL level.  The NFL is about matchups.  It's the coaches who are flexible enough and nuanced enough to exploit those matchups on a weekly basis that win consistently.   It's the "if he can coach" part that will make him or break him.  The style is mostly noise.  

I agree. Finding players willing to be coached also fits into it. 

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14 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Having an undergraduate major in psychology, if he did (and I can find no evidence for it), does not make him a "trained psychologist." Based on his coaching choices, I would wager he never cracked a psychology textbook.

lol what have been his coaching choices

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2 hours ago, Biggs said:

If the guy can judge his talent, coach it up and has the X's and O's and is flexible enough to out scheme his opponents to take advantage of the mismatch's he will be successful.  If he doesn't have that all the rest is just noise.

The great NFL HC had disciplined players and game planned them to victory.  Lombardi, Walsh, Stram, BB all were guys who had different styles in dealing with players but in the end what made them successful is they were good judges of talent, coached the talent up and put them in position to exploit subtle mismatches.  

I wouldn't make any judgement on his style.  It really doesn't matter.  

 

I see what you did there.

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1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Dallas used him as a placeholder for like a decade and ended up with Mike McCarthy.

 

Jerry Jones watched him work his way up the hierarchy, both as a player and as a coach. 

Say what you want about Jerry, but as a good businessman, he recognizes grit when he sees it.

 

Garrett went from free agent, to camp body, to practice squad, to backup QB. He was on those SB-winning teams, and observed the best NFL players with his own eyes. I'm sure he must have been diligent, and an outside observer could at least be convinced that he knew what a 'winning team' looked like. 

Then he went from QB coach, to OC, to head coach. He saw the ups and downs and would eventually earn the organization's trust, both on and off the field. The on-field product wasn't great, but it wasn't a disaster either.

That's often 'good enough' for most NFL owners, who are savvy enough to realize that winning is 'fluky' in the sense that you need a rare perfect storm of favorable cap situation, good talent and good coaching coming together.

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4 hours ago, Biggs said:

If the guy can judge his talent, coach it up and has the X's and O's and is flexible enough to out scheme his opponents to take advantage of the mismatch's he will be successful.  If he doesn't have that all the rest is just noise.

The great NFL HC had disciplined players and game planned them to victory.  Lombardi, Walsh, Stram, BB all were guys who had different styles in dealing with players but in the end what made them successful is they were good judges of talent, coached the talent up and put them in position to exploit subtle mismatches.  

I wouldn't make any judgement on his style.  It really doesn't matter.  

Right but coaches can improve over time at all the things you describe.  They can start out as good coaches and later become great.

But Joe Judge will always be an a$$hole, and it will take a lot of immediate success for his players not to tune him out.

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9 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Having an undergraduate major in psychology, if he did (and I can find no evidence for it), does not make him a "trained psychologist." Based on his coaching choices, I would wager he never cracked a psychology textbook.

Correct he would have to have gotten a graduate degree in psychology.  Undergrad Psychology is just a cush major for frat boys and house hoes

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