It's Official

[Warmbrother]

IDK why people on this board LOVE to say Darnold hasn't proven squat but in the same breath mention we could have taken Watson. Watson sucks and hasn't done squat either!

[Fantasy Island]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They do tho. he's "Fine" but doesn't have the Josh Allen, Mahomes or Watson level physical tools to bail himself out

 

QW ran an OFFICIAL 4.83 at 303 at Indy Combine

https://www.nfl.com/videos/alabama-defensive-lineman-quinnen-williams-runs-an-official-4-83-40-yard--422694

Sam Darnold ran a pro Day 4.85 at 220 

https://www.conquestchronicles.com/2018/4/23/17269468/2018-nfl-draft-scouting-reports-sam-darnold-qb-usc

 

[PS17]

7 minutes ago, Warmbrother said:

IDK why people on this board LOVE to say Darnold hasn't proven squat but in the same breath mention we could have taken Watson. Watson sucks and hasn't done squat either!

I don’t love Watson but he’s won two consecutive divisions with a mediocre coach. 

[Jetster]

Sammy Watkins would be our best WR. Did you see the weapons Mahomes has? 
Plus Reid is an offensive guru. It’s like a driving a Ferrari vs a Yugo.

[Drums]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Bart Scott had a really interesting comment the other day. He said that “people in the league” still feel like Darnold was (and is) far and away the most talented QB in his draft class, even with Lamar on the board, but they question whether he’ll ever be able to put it together with the Jets, and that having a coaching and front office change happening around him really set him back. You can see that, from a tools and personality standpoint, Darnold *should* be a lot better, but you wonder if and when the Jets ever get it together long enough to see it pay off. Simien and Falk were, without question, horrible, but even the year prior when Darnold had the ankle, the Jets have zero chance to win when Darnold isn’t in the lineup, but he elevates what is a dreadful team all by himself when he does play. He might be better than we think. 

If the Jets can’t put it together with Darnold, the best chance we have had in my lifetime, we are ******* hopeless. 

[Drums]

7 minutes ago, PS17 said:

I don’t love Watson but he’s won two consecutive divisions with a mediocre coach. 

He’s probably in the worst division in the NFL 

[Larz]

All Darnold needs to be successful is everything around him to be above average 

 

ok

[GreekJet]

I thought Watson was fine yesterday. He made some really nice throws. 

[Grandy]

Interesting snippet from a recent SI. 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Bart Scott had a really interesting comment the other day. He said that “people in the league” still feel like Darnold was (and is) far and away the most talented QB in his draft class, even with Lamar on the board, but they question whether he’ll ever be able to put it together with the Jets, and that having a coaching and front office change happening around him really set him back. You can see that, from a tools and personality standpoint, Darnold *should* be a lot better, but you wonder if and when the Jets ever get it together long enough to see it pay off. Simien and Falk were, without question, horrible, but even the year prior when Darnold had the ankle, the Jets have zero chance to win when Darnold isn’t in the lineup, but he elevates what is a dreadful team all by himself when he does play. He might be better than we think. 

Sam was the youngest starting QB in league history his first year.  Last year he played pretty well considering the circumstances.  This whole "question whether he’ll ever be able to put it together with the Jets" thing seems REALLY premature.  

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

44 minutes ago, bitonti said:

devils advocate Darnold's tools aren't that great

he's not especially tall by NFL standards, or fast. His arm strength is not especially rare. His hands aren't huge. James Morgan has better tools than Sam Darnold, across the board. 

Darnold's scouting report was supposed to be about his ability when the pocket breaks down, his instincts etc. His fundemental throwing motion is fine the problem is he does it off his back foot too often, and into double or triple coverage too often.

this was the issue when he worked with Jordan Palmer as a 20 year old, these are the issues today.

His tools don't hold him back (he's NFL caliber) he's just not world class tools guy.

Put it another way, Quinnen runs a faster 40 yard dash than Darnold. He has 75 more pounds on him. They both went 3 overall. 

It wouldn't matter if Sam Darnold had world-class tools. It wouldn't matter if there were some way to measure and prove that he had the potential to be the best quarterback of all time. He's never going to play to those tools or fulfill that potential because he is woefully under-trained.

Hospitals hire doctors. They don't hire guys that look franchisey and then put them through medical school while they complete residency. You think that's different? You're right. Because there's like a billion doctors and only sixteen above-average starting quarterbacks. Darnold's inexperience is given lip service but not taken at all seriously even by those who would fairly reasonably consider themselves to be skeptics.

[Greensleeves]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Watson. Obviously  has an adjustment to make with Hopkins no longer his go to guy. He obviously  was going where he was comfortable  in Fuller but Cooks is a solid WR with speed. He needs to get the ball to him. Also the D on Houston seems to suck. 

 

Yep. That reinforces the OPs point. Great players like Hopkins can make a QB look really good. Sam has never had that. When I went to see Houston and the Jets live it was obvious to me Sam was the better, more skilled QB. Watson threw the ball up several times and Hopkins made unbelievable catches at important times. He was the best player in the game. Sam just has more skills and it will show more this year when the O-line plays better and Herndon actually plays a game.

[T0mShane]

38 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They do tho. he's "Fine" but doesn't have the Josh Allen, Mahomes or Watson level physical tools to bail himself out

 

QW ran an OFFICIAL 4.83 at 303 at Indy Combine

https://www.nfl.com/videos/alabama-defensive-lineman-quinnen-williams-runs-an-official-4-83-40-yard--422694

Sam Darnold ran a pro Day 4.85 at 220 

https://www.conquestchronicles.com/2018/4/23/17269468/2018-nfl-draft-scouting-reports-sam-darnold-qb-usc

 

Deshaun Watson runs a 4.7 and has about as strong a throwing arm as Brooks Bollinger.

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Bart Scott had a really interesting comment the other day. He said that “people in the league” still feel like Darnold was (and is) far and away the most talented QB in his draft class, even with Lamar on the board, but they question whether he’ll ever be able to put it together with the Jets, and that having a coaching and front office change happening around him really set him back. You can see that, from a tools and personality standpoint, Darnold *should* be a lot better, but you wonder if and when the Jets ever get it together long enough to see it pay off. Simien and Falk were, without question, horrible, but even the year prior when Darnold had the ankle, the Jets have zero chance to win when Darnold isn’t in the lineup, but he elevates what is a dreadful team all by himself when he does play. He might be better than we think. 

It's going to be abysmally painful to watch him win a Super Bowl with the Pittsburgh Steelers after we pull a Drew Brees-Phillip Rivers.

[jacarter220]

2 hours ago, Daddy Wang Doodle said:

That after last night's game, Mahomes is the only QB in the AFC you'd pick to start a team over Darnold.

Watson? Has shown the incredible ability to pad stats at the end of games and convince people he's a game changer. He's not

Lamar Jackson? 0-2 in the playoffs. Not to be taken seriously

Bills RB Josh Allen? Lol, please.

This year, Darnold will surpass all of the players listed above and claim his spot as a top 5 QB in the NFL. 

It's a great time to be a Jets fan.

SAR? Is that you?

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

A bit harsh to make that judgment, considering their opponent.

The only time the D showed up was when a undersized rookie RB was trying to run it in from the goal line and he almost made it on his second try. If Damian Williams is running the ball there, that is another TD. There were no circus plays yesterday. KC actually looked very vanilla to me. 

[slimjasi]

I think Watson is a tad bit overrated and have made that case on here before, but this is obviously loony nonsense. 

 

Just chill and let Sam develop into the player he can be. No need to pound your chest prematurely. 

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

devils advocate Darnold's tools aren't that great

he's not especially tall by NFL standards, or fast. His arm strength is not especially rare. His hands aren't huge. James Morgan has better tools than Sam Darnold, across the board. 

Darnold's scouting report was supposed to be about his ability when the pocket breaks down, his instincts etc. His fundemental throwing motion is fine the problem is he does it off his back foot too often, and into double or triple coverage too often.

this was the issue when he worked with Jordan Palmer as a 20 year old, these are the issues today.

His tools don't hold him back (he's NFL caliber) he's just not world class tools guy.

Put it another way, Quinnen runs a faster 40 yard dash than Darnold. He has 75 more pounds on him. They both went 3 overall. 

That’s total crap.  I get your not Sam’s biggest fan, but to come up with that statement is ludicrous.   Plus don’t make stuff up just to try to make a point.  You’re better than that.  Sam actually ran a faster 40 than Morgan did 4.85 vs. 4.89.  Sam is .5 inches shorter than Morgan and their hand size is practically the same. 9.75 vs. 9.53.   Plus Morgan’s arm is not better than Sam’s.   He may have a touch more velo, but he’s inaccurate.   

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

. James Morgan has better tools than Sam Darnold, across the board. 

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

devils advocate Darnold's tools aren't that great

he's not especially tall by NFL standards, or fast. His arm strength is not especially rare. His hands aren't huge. James Morgan has better tools than Sam Darnold, across the board. 

Darnold's scouting report was supposed to be about his ability when the pocket breaks down, his instincts etc. His fundemental throwing motion is fine the problem is he does it off his back foot too often, and into double or triple coverage too often.

this was the issue when he worked with Jordan Palmer as a 20 year old, these are the issues today.

His tools don't hold him back (he's NFL caliber) he's just not world class tools guy.

Put it another way, Quinnen runs a faster 40 yard dash than Darnold. He has 75 more pounds on him. They both went 3 overall. 

When talking NFL elite QB the ability to see the field, process what you see and translate that into motion isn't easy to measure.   It's more important than anything you're talking about.  When people talk about Darnold's ability when things break down they are talking about his brain being able to process options that other QB's can't.  

It's not only how good the tools are in the box.  Do you have a tool for the job you're actually doing.  Darnold has good tools and more tools than anyone drafted in his class.  

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

That’s total crap.  I get your not Sam’s biggest fan, but to come up with that statement is ludicrous.   Plus don’t make stuff up just to try to make a point.  You’re better than that.  Sam actually ran a faster 40 than Morgan did 4.85 vs. 4.89.  Sam is .5 inches shorter than Morgan and their hand size is practically the same. 9.75 vs. 9.53.   Plus Morgan’s arm is not better than Sam’s.   He may have a touch more velo, but he’s inaccurate.   

 

Not lately, he's not.  

Make Bitonti 2008 Again!!

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

devils advocate Darnold's tools aren't that great

he's not especially tall by NFL standards, or fast. His arm strength is not especially rare. His hands aren't huge. James Morgan has better tools than Sam Darnold, across the board. 

Darnold's scouting report was supposed to be about his ability when the pocket breaks down, his instincts etc. His fundemental throwing motion is fine the problem is he does it off his back foot too often, and into double or triple coverage too often.

this was the issue when he worked with Jordan Palmer as a 20 year old, these are the issues today.

His tools don't hold him back (he's NFL caliber) he's just not world class tools guy.

Put it another way, Quinnen runs a faster 40 yard dash than Darnold. He has 75 more pounds on him. They both went 3 overall. 

All kidding aside, I think you are too focused on the physical tools stuff. Most NFL QBs have enough "Physical tools" to be good/winning starting QBs. I believe what separates the very best QBs from everyone else is largely mental - decision making, mental toughness through adversity, calm under pressure, etc. 

Darnold's tools are easily good enough to take us where we want to go. If he learns to limit the disastrous mistake, he will be fine. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

When talking NFL elite QB the ability to see the field, process what you see and translate that into motion isn't easy to measure.   It's more important than anything you're talking about.  When people talk about Darnold's ability when things break down they are talking about his brain being able to process options that other QB's can't.  

It's not only how good the tools are in the box.  Do you have a tool for the job you're actually doing.  Darnold has good tools and more tools than anyone drafted in his class.  

Jackson is a better thrower, runner, and processor.  But other than that.....

[DonMaynardFan]

2 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Just in gase you missed it, Sam hasn't had anything but bowles of crap to learn from.

He's now had 2 off-seasons / training camp's with Gase (who I also think is not good), so if he doesn't get it now, we can drop that argument.

[DonMaynardFan]

42 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

All kidding aside, I think you are too focused on the physical tools stuff. Most NFL QBs have enough "Physical tools" to be good/winning starting QBs. I believe what separates the very best QBs from everyone else is largely mental - decision making, mental toughness through adversity, calm under pressure, etc. 

Darnold's tools are easily good enough to take us where we want to go. If he learns to limit the disastrous mistake, he will be fine. 

Your "mental" point is well made.

Which is why many of us panicked after the "ghosts" game.

Not a good sign.

[DonMaynardFan]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You’re frustrated with a 23 year old FQB with less than 2 years on the field?  And no talent around him?

No i'm frustrated with what I believe his potential is.

I don't think he has superstar potential. 

I don't think he has HOF potential. 

I don't think he will ever be a top 3 QB in the NFL.

I think he will be above average. Alex Smith/Philip Rivers kinda level. And you've seen how many SB's those two have.

That's the frustrating thing. Teams will spend a decade or more with an average-good QB and won't win crap. It's not until they get a certified STUD that they go get the trophy.

Think about Alex Smith with KC. He had most of the same receivers, TE, O-line, etc as Mahomes. He couldn't ever make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Mahomes comes in and wins the damn Super Bowl.

 

[Warcodered]

At a certain point you just have to wonder WTF is going on with the training staff?

[JetBlue]

2 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

Yep. That reinforces the OPs point. Great players like Hopkins can make a QB look really good. Sam has never had that. When I went to see Houston and the Jets live it was obvious to me Sam was the better, more skilled QB. Watson threw the ball up several times and Hopkins made unbelievable catches at important times. He was the best player in the game. Sam just has more skills and it will show more this year when the O-line plays better and Herndon actually plays a game.

And that is why I was so PISSED we took a back up quarterback instead of loading up on more tools for Darnold.   What kind of message are you sending when you do that?  Now here we are with Breshad Perriman and Jamison Crowder and bunch of hopefuls because he put all his eggs in the Mims basket.  A player who we really got lucky with because he really shouldn't have even been on the board.    When I look around and see the Browns with OBJ and Bills with Stefon Diggs all I can do is shake my head...  And I like Perriman. 

[Jetmech]

QW ran an OFFICIAL 4.83 at 303 at Indy Combine
https://www.nfl.com/videos/alabama-defensive-lineman-quinnen-williams-runs-an-official-4-83-40-yard--422694
Sam Darnold ran a pro Day 4.85 at 220 
https://www.conquestchronicles.com/2018/4/23/17269468/2018-nfl-draft-scouting-reports-sam-darnold-qb-usc
 

I don’t see Allen nor Watson as proportionally better than Darnold.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jet Nut]

24 minutes ago, DonMaynardFan said:

No i'm frustrated with what I believe his potential is.

I don't think he has superstar potential. 

I don't think he has HOF potential. 

I don't think he will ever be a top 3 QB in the NFL.

I think he will be above average. Alex Smith/Philip Rivers kinda level. And you've seen how many SB's those two have.

That's the frustrating thing. Teams will spend a decade or more with an average-good QB and won't win crap. It's not until they get a certified STUD that they go get the trophy.

Think about Alex Smith with KC. He had most of the same receivers, TE, O-line, etc as Mahomes. He couldn't ever make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Mahomes comes in and wins the damn Super Bowl.

 

I don’t think worrying that he may not being a top 3 QB is a good use of time or anything to carry on about.  
Thinking Alex Smith has the same players and skill set as Mahomes is a horrendous analogy.  Darnold isn’t a dink and dunk, limited physically QB like Smith is.  The thinking that only Mahomes can win is wrong and a waste of time and energy 

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Jackson is a better thrower, runner, and processor.  But other than that.....

You got the 2nd one right. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

You got the 2nd one right. 

You can't watch Lamar Jackson play and suggest he isn't better than Darnold at the other 2 things, too, at this stage in their respective careers.  Just because he's an excellent runner doesn't mean that's all he can do.  He has been a surprisingly solid passer ever since he became the starter in Baltimore. 

FFS the dude has a career 42 TD/9 INT ratio and completed 66 % of his throws last season, at 7.8 Yards per Attempt (IE he wasn't dinking and dunking).  You don't get there only by being a runner.

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You can't watch Lamar Jackson play and suggest he isn't better than Darnold at the other 2 things, too, at this stage in their respective careers.  Just because he's an excellent runner doesn't mean that's all he can do.  He has been a surprisingly solid passer ever since he became the starter in Baltimore.  

He has played in 2 playoff games.  He crapped his pants in both games.  51% passing, 3TD, 3INT's with a QBR of 68.3.   You can't watch Jackson play without realizing he has superior talent around him and in spite of that when pitted against equal competition in key spots he has sh*t the bed.

[Jetsfan80]

  

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

He has played in 2 playoff games.  He crapped his pants in both games.  51% passing, 3TD, 3INT's with a QBR of 68.3.   You can't watch Jackson play without realizing he has superior talent around him and in spite of that when pitted against equal competition in key spots he has sh*t the bed.

 

FFS the dude has a career 42 TD/9 INT ratio and completed 66 % of his throws last season, at 7.8 Yards per Attempt (IE he wasn't dinking and dunking).  You don't get there only by being a runner.

lol.  Playoff performance criticism?  He's f**kin 19-3 as a starter, I'm sure better days are ahead in postseason games.  Ask Ravens fans how concerned they are about that when it comes to Jackson's performance and future.  I'm sure they'll all say Darnold is a better QB.  

[RutgersJetFan]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Bart Scott had a really interesting comment the other day. He said that “people in the league” still feel like Darnold was (and is) far and away the most talented QB in his draft class, even with Lamar on the board, but they question whether he’ll ever be able to put it together with the Jets, and that having a coaching and front office change happening around him really set him back. You can see that, from a tools and personality standpoint, Darnold *should* be a lot better, but you wonder if and when the Jets ever get it together long enough to see it pay off. Simien and Falk were, without question, horrible, but even the year prior when Darnold had the ankle, the Jets have zero chance to win when Darnold isn’t in the lineup, but he elevates what is a dreadful team all by himself when he does play. He might be better than we think. 

Remember when you told us Mark Sanchez was gonna have a career like Rich Gannon

Pepperidge Farm remembers