Alarming Breakdown from Baldinger

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Did i say 1 game? He's lost it, not sure when but its gone. 

And seeing as he was never really any good, that's exactly what a bust looks like, sadly.

It's not dissimilar to Sanchez or Geno Smith.  They, too, started out bad and got worse.

[Y3k]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

He showed up reckless, but with a lot of confidence. His first NFL pass was a pick 6 and then came back from it to bitch slap Detroit that first game. Now, he looks like he's just waiting to get off the field and go home. 

You act like you didn't see him make scramble drill plays like that all year last year... Do you judge all QBs based on their week 1 performance ?

[Beerfish]

If you look at just about every young QB that succeeds the team taking him has built its oline and some weapons BEFORE drafting the QB.

If you look at just about every young QB that has failed the team taking him has taken the QB and had no oline and no weapons and then tried to build around a QB who after 3 years becomes shot.

If this season continues like his then Joe Douglas as a GM will have a massive test, if he fails to fire Gase then he is just another in a long line of football guys that acts too slow, and is too passive.

[PS17]

6 minutes ago, Y3k said:

This playing scared thing is bullsh*t.

Did he play scared against the Cowboys, Raiders, Redskins, Giants, and Ravens last year? 

He chucked a pick into the middle of the field rolling to his left... that isn't playing scared, stupid yes, but scared?

He looked neutered yesterday. He’s always been a reckless gunslinger. 

[Y3k]

Not a single person on this forum was saying that Darnold regressed after last year. He improved in every category despite chaos around him... At some point in camp the media turned negative on the entire offense and then after week 1 there is absolute panic. Pretty fascinating actually. 

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, Y3k said:

You act like you didn't see him make scramble drill plays like that all year last year... Do you judge all QBs based on their week 1 performance ?

No and I get your point. But he looked as bad as I've seen him. He's that bad until he proves he isn't I guess. 

[Y3k]

41 minutes ago, SR24 said:

This plays been talked about on here all day. Crowder being that open makes this play so much worse for Sam I didn’t even see it on tv. A gunslinger makes that throw and if Sams not in that mind set then we've got problems

what do you expect when the entire world flips their sh*t after he throws a pick. 

[yvj]

16 minutes ago, Y3k said:

This playing scared thing is bullsh*t.

Did he play scared against the Cowboys, Raiders, Redskins, Giants, and Ravens last year? 

He chucked a pick into the middle of the field rolling to his left... that isn't playing scared, stupid yes, but scared?

He chucked the pick because he panicked. But in the end stupid or scared is the same result.

[Y3k]

11 minutes ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

I'm not trying to be funny or a dick at all here - but I genuinely believe Darnold is kind of a dumb guy. Like you hear him talk, and the way he kind of short circuits under pressure and my take is that he just doesn't have a brain that works ultra fast. I think what Bates did was dumb everything down for him w/ one read RPOs, screens, roll outs that take away half the field, etc. 

We were all mad at the time b/c we wanted to see more downfield throws and aggression but I think he was just trying to make things simple. 

Then Adam Jerkoff comes in and throws what several people have said is one of the most complex offensives in the NFL at him. Darnold can't process everything and it makes everything he does harder. It would explain a lot of his perceived regression and also explains why he misses stuff like this b/c he is so rattled. 

I'm not trying to take blame away from Darnold. In fact calling him a dumb guy is shifting a ton of blame on him and the reality is if he is too dumb to run an NFL offense in his 2nd year he was probably never going to be the guy... but it also speaks to a common criticism of Gase which is that he has no capability of tailoring his system to the players he has. 

 

 

 

I think there is a lot of truth to this post. I think Darnold is an incredibly instinctual player, his spacial awareness and ability to just react is unreal. But filling his head with complex offensive concepts and mechanical thoughts you take that away. It's why I hate the "throwing of your back foot" bullsh*t criticism. Let the kid play freely. 

[Y3k]

1 minute ago, yvj said:

He chucked the pick because he panicked. But in the end stupid or scared is the same result.

you can't bitch that he's not a gunslinger and then bitch that he threw a pick because he gunslinged. 

[BettyBoop]

11 minutes ago, Y3k said:

Not a single person on this forum was saying that Darnold regressed after last year. He improved in every category despite chaos around him... At some point in camp the media turned negative on the entire offense and then after week 1 there is absolute panic. Pretty fascinating actually. 

There's enough blame to go around.  The media is not part of it.

[yvj]

Just now, Y3k said:

you can't bitch that he's not a gunslinger and then bitch that he threw a pick because he gunslinged. 

I haven't bitched about him so this doesn't apply to me. Just saying there might be some credence to what is being said.  Hopefully I am wrong.

[SR24]

32 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Playing scared Brian. Playing scared. He's lost all his confidence. 

Yep that’s literally his bread and butter and now he’s not even attempting the throw 

[Sonny Werblin]

Just now, Beerfish said:

If you look at just about every young QB that succeeds the team taking him has built its oline and some weapons BEFORE drafting the QB.

If you look at just about every young QB that has failed the team taking him has taken the QB and had no oline and no weapons and then tried to build around a QB who after 3 years becomes shot.

If this season continues like his then Joe Douglas as a GM will have a massive test, if he fails to fire Gase then he is just another in a long line of football guys that acts too slow, and is too passive.

Totally agree. It pisses me off when people say Sam had 3 seconds on certain plays. Not all 3 seconds in the pocket are created equal. The interior of the Jets line never holds and Sam never gets the kind of pocket we see other QB's enjoy. Even when he gets close to three seconds the pressure is on him and in his face. In almost every game you see a QB drop back and have forever to throw with no one even close to putting pressure on him. How often has that happened in Sam's career? Has it ever happened?  I cannot emphasize enough how poor the Jets interior O line is, and the fact is that every D applies pressure right up the gut of the Jets O line. 

Unless Sam gets a QB friendly OC by next year at the latest, he will take years to fix. He is absolutely skidish on every dropback. And who can blame him. Is Norv Turner available?

[ChuckkieB]

39 minutes ago, Lith said:

But, but, but, I thought he had nobody open to throw to all game.  He needs to be better.

Let's not get this too twisted.  Crowder was open because the play broke down, not because Gase designed a genius offensive guru play.     

That being said, it was a TERRIBLE read by Darnold and yes, he needs to be way better than this.

[TuscanyTile2]

25 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

He's 100% regressed. Blame who you want, but this kid needs a change of scenery. Sad but true. 

WAY too early to give up on Sam.  He's still younger than Burrow. 

[Y3k]

2 minutes ago, SR24 said:

Yep that’s literally his bread and butter and now he’s not even attempting the throw 

no one hits every play man. He had other scramble drills in this game for gods sake. 

[ChuckkieB]

My bad. Duplicate post.

[Y3k]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Totally agree. It pisses me off when people say Sam had 3 seconds on certain plays. Not all 3 seconds in the pocket are created equal. The interior of the Jets line never holds and Sam never gets the kind of pocket we see other QB's enjoy. Even when he gets close to three seconds the pressure is on him and in his face. In almost every game you see a QB drop back and have forever to throw with no one even close to putting pressure on him. How often has that happened in Sam's career? Has it ever happened?  I cannot emphasize enough how poor the Jets interior O line is, and the fact is that every D applies pressure right up the gut of the Jets O line. 

Unless Sam gets a QB friendly OC by next year at the latest, he will take years to fix. He is absolutely skidish on every dropback. And who can blame him. Is Norv Turner available?

sames "pockets" are absolute chaos. 

[JustInFudge]

17 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

He's 100% regressed. Blame who you want, but this kid needs a change of scenery. Sad but true. 

I'm pretty down on him after that performance but I will say this, I was ready to get rid of him last year and he bounced back and finished well...and as bad he was yesterday, I dont think it was worse than the NE-Jax-MIA stretch last season.  And overall, he didnt regress last season, he in fact improved in every single passing category.  So, maybe I'm doing myself no favors here but I am willing to call it a really bad game.  Call it timing, new OL, good D, new WR's, no preseason, whatever, we've seen Sam make all the plays he missed yesterday routinely in the past and in essence of never trying to overreact to anything in week 1, I'm going to hold out for hope that he was just "off".  That said, I'm not holding my breath.  The mental mistakes are not good.

 

 

 

 

[SAR I]

51 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Peep this thread if you want. It shows how decimated his confidence and mojo is compared to his rookie year.

Don't spin this into an indictment of the record-setting Peyton Manning Broncos offensive coordinator.

Nothing stopped Sam Darnold from making that throw except Sam Darnold.  In fact, that was an example of great offensive coordination.  On a broken play the Jets best WR got wide open just like he was coached and ready to make a huge catch and the QB did as he was coached and was looking in the right place.  But Darnold runs out of bounds instead.  And that's on Adam Gase how?

Treat Sam Darnold in Year 3 like you treated Mark Sanchez.  You didn't blame Rex Ryan for every boneheaded decision, hell, you wanted to extend his contract.

SAR I

[Y3k]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm pretty down on him after that performance but I will say this, I was ready to get rid of him last year and he bounced back and finished well...and as bad he was yesterday, I dont think it was worse than the NE-Jax-MIA stretch last season.  And overall, he didnt regress last season, he in fact improved in every single passing category.  So, maybe I'm doing myself no favors here but I am willing to call it a really bad game.  Call it timing, new OL, good D, new WR's, no preseason, whatever, we've seen Sam make all the plays he missed yesterday routinely in the past and in essence of never trying to overreact to anything in week 1, I'm going to hold out for hope that he was just "off".  That said, I'm not holding my breath.  The mental mistakes are not good.

 

 

 

 

you can't ignore the fact that he played the #1 passing D on a windy day... look at what buffalo did to QBs last year.... would you feel better if he opened with a 300 yard day vs. the colts in a dome and then had this bad game week 2? 

[SR24]

1 minute ago, Y3k said:

no one hits every play man. He had other scramble drills in this game for gods sake. 

Dude you’ve been on here all day trying to tear down everyone who’s calling Sam out for an awful performance. He sucked yesterday no matter how much you try to spin it, he was awful. We are passed the point of giving Sam passes for being bad if you can’t handle that go root for a team with a better QB. 

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Totally agree. It pisses me off when people say Sam had 3 seconds on certain plays. Not all 3 seconds in the pocket are created equal. The interior of the Jets line never holds and Sam never gets the kind of pocket we see other QB's enjoy. Even when he gets close to three seconds the pressure is on him and in his face. In almost every game you see a QB drop back and have forever to throw with no one even close to putting pressure on him. How often has that happened in Sam's career? Has it ever happened?  I cannot emphasize enough how poor the Jets interior O line is, and the fact is that every D applies pressure right up the gut of the Jets O line. 

Unless Sam gets a QB friendly OC by next year at the latest, he will take years to fix. He is absolutely skidish on every dropback. And who can blame him. Is Norv Turner available?

Exactly.  The "3 seconds to throw" are usually from Sam buying time by scrambling.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Don't spin this into an indictment of the record-setting Peyton Manning Broncos offensive coordinator.

Nothing stopped Sam Darnold from making that throw except Sam Darnold. 

Treat Sam Darnold in Year 3 like you treated Mark Sanchez.  You didn't blame Rex Ryan for every boneheaded decision, hell, you wanted to extend his contract.

SAR I

Let's be honest:  Peyton Manning was nothing before Adam Gase.

[Y3k]

3 minutes ago, SR24 said:

Dude you’ve been on here all day trying to tear down everyone who’s calling Sam out for an awful performance. He sucked yesterday no matter how much you try to spin it, he was awful. We are passed the point of giving Sam passes for being bad if you can’t handle that go root for a team with a better QB. 

I am the first to say that he was bad. There is a difference between saying someone had a bad day against the #1 d in the NFL on a windy day and saying someone is playing scared, has lost their confidence, has regressed, and is broken. If you can't give the most promising player this franchise has had in its history some time to develop, you're the one that should be rooting for a different team with an established vet QB. 

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

On a broken play the Jets best WR got wide open just like he was coached

Maybe this sh*thead should concentrate on the unbroken plays.  

[SAR I]

37 minutes ago, Y3k said:

This playing scared thing is bullsh*t.

Did he play scared against the Cowboys, Raiders, Redskins, Giants, and Ravens last year? 

He chucked a pick into the middle of the field rolling to his left... that isn't playing scared, stupid yes, but scared?

He's not scared and he's not ruined.  He's just not very good.  At least right now.

As for his precious 'feelings' and his 'development', under this same staff and same playbook he finished the 2019 season 6-2 with 14 TD's and 4 INT's and a rating of 93.3.  There is nothing Adam Gase could have done in the few weeks of 2020 in-person training camp to "ruin" Sam or his confidence.  Sam spent 4 months quarantined with Jordan Palmer, Quarterback Whisperer.  Perhaps he should be taking some heat.

SAR I

[jetstream23]

 

Many fans here won't agree but Danny boy is right on this one.

Darnold played bad and many mistakes were on him.  But this kid is in a bit of a tough spot.  We can only hope that, like last year, the Jets figure out a way to do the best with the limited weapons they have.

 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, Y3k said:

I am the first to say that he was bad. There is a difference between saying someone had a bad day against the #1 d in the NFL on a windy day and saying someone is playing scared, has lost their confidence, has regressed, and is broken. If you can't give the most promising player this franchise has had in its history some time to develop, you're the one that should be rooting for a different team with an established vet QB. 

It is possible he was a bit scared, but I agree.  This all came after the pathetic pick.  The real problem with the pick was that it was soft-tossed, not that he tried to fit it in.  I think people need to relax.  He has been up and down before.  I expected this game to suck.  It did not disappoint.

[Lith]

17 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Let's not get this too twisted.  Crowder was open because the play broke down, not because Gase designed a genius offensive guru play.     

That being said, it was a TERRIBLE read by Darnold and yes, he needs to be way better than this.

I never said it was a well designed play by Gase.  But still, Darnold needs to make that throw.  Gase may be a bad head coach.  Darnold may be a bad QB.  These statements are not mutually exclusive, nor are they completely independent observations.

Look, I hope we rebound next week, play a strong game, win or lose, and make this past week look like an aberration.  I want Sam to be great.  I want Gase to prove he is a good head coach.  The alternative is another lost season by October and at least 2 - 3 more years of rebuild.  Which is an incredibly depressing thought.  Venting a bit, as many others are, but that was one depressing and demoralizing loss yesterday.

[Wonderboy]

1 hour ago, SR24 said:

This plays been talked about on here all day. Crowder being that open makes this play so much worse for Sam I didn’t even see it on tv. A gunslinger makes that throw and if Sams not in that mind set then we've got problems

Lol 1 play and the guy is considered a bust. So if joewillie12 makes  that throw he’s the next coming of Johnny Unitas. 

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, Y3k said:

you can't ignore the fact that he played the #1 passing D on a windy day... look at what buffalo did to QBs last year.... would you feel better if he opened with a 300 yard day vs. the colts in a dome and then had this bad game week 2? 

He was missing wide open WR's.  The #1 passing D doesnt really have anything to do with that and making stupid rookie mental mistakes.  He was self admittedly awful.  

I dont understand your hypothetical but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because I've seen him routinely make those plays in the past and he was taking snaps with 7 guys he's never played with before on no preseason reps on the road vs. a much superior team but still, that type of performance has to given any reasonable person pause.  It was horrific.  I'm making excuses and I know it but again, it's week 1 and I'm trying not overreact but man, he was really bad.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, SAR I said:

He's not scared and he's not ruined.  He's just not very good.  At least right now.

As for his precious 'feelings' and his 'development', under this same staff and same playbook he finished the year 6-2 with 14 TD's and 4 INT's and a rating of 93.3.  There is nothing Adam Gase could have done in the few weeks of 2020 in-person training camp to "ruin" Sam or his confidence.  Sam spend 4 months with Jordan Palmer, Quarterback Whisperer.  Perhaps he should be taking some heat.

SAR I

No, you can’t blame palmer.  

2 things i saw yesterday were 1) the entire offense looked nervous, and i think they were nervous because they knew they were unprepared.  2) darnold will likely never be a true pocket passer, he clearly prefers throwing on the run and his best qbing will be improvisational.  Darnold will not reach his potential until he’s married with a coach who accepts this and tailors an offense around this premise.

[SR24]

8 minutes ago, Y3k said:

I am the first to say that he was bad. There is a difference between saying someone had a bad day against the #1 d in the NFL on a windy day and saying someone is playing scared, has lost their confidence, has regressed, and is broken. If you can't give the most promising player this franchise has had in its history some time to develop, you're the one that should be rooting for a different team with an established vet QB. 

It’s been 3 years and we’re seeing the same mistakes at what point is it ok to raise concerns??? You can’t just “missed play” this one lol that’s a game changing play! We spent a 1st and 3 2nds on him to make those plays we’re well passed the give him more time stage man. He’s not playing his own game right now  and that’s a big problem for us if he’s not there mentally.