Why were some of you so ready to panic?

[Y3k]

I'm talking specifically about Darnold here... just trying to understand WTF is going on. 

This is a young player, the youngest player start at QB 2 years ago, and still younger than the #1 pick in the draft this year.  He was also an inexperienced player, he played basically 1 season of high school football and less than 2 years at USC. He wasn't one of those groomed since birth QBs that attended 20k QB camps every year in high school. He's raw. 

I've been a Jets fan for a decent amount of time, im 35 now, have probably been watching the Jets every Sunday for 20+ years. I've suffered through dozens of QBs that I knew were dead on arrival. No special talent, no ability. Darnold is the only QB I've ever seen in a Jets uniform, other than Farve for a couple of weeks, that I thought has the potential to be really special.

Yes, he's been inconsistent, but he's put together many games that I haven't seen other QBs in this uniform put together before. Hes had long stretches of success to end each of his first two seasons. He improved in EVERY single category last year vs. his rookie year, even though we all know he had the worst OL any of us have ever seen, the worst group of receives in the NFL, a back up TE, and had freaking mono. Without Darnold last year this was the worst offense in NFL history, with Darnold they were a respectable unit, able to put up 30+ points a few times- unbelievable really. 

We all agree that Adam Gase is clueless, is not using Darnold to the best of his ability, and is potentially stunting faster growth. If we all agree on these things, why not WANT to give him as much opportunity as possible to see if he can survive this ******* mess? We are asking this kid to put a terrible team on his back and carry us, by himself. When he ****s up, he has Dowell Friggin Loggains to talk to. Lamar Jackson and Mahomes are great players, but they have incredible support systems around them. Its unbelievable. Every game, about half the plays I see are ones that you and I could make... they create systems around these players that lift them up. They build their confidence up, and then they let their talents take over. 

So it really saddens me to see a significant chunk of  you guys so ready to be out for blood. The kid struggles against the #1 pass D on a windy day and you're ready to crucify him. We need to be his support system until he either fails or succeeds. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Y3k said:

I'm talking specifically about Darnold here... just trying to understand WTF is going on. 

This is a young player, the youngest player start at QB 2 years ago, and still younger than the #1 pick in the draft this year.  He was also an inexperienced player, he played basically 1 season of high school football and less than 2 years at USC. He wasn't one of those groomed since birth QBs that attended 20k QB camps every year in high school. He's raw. 

I've been a Jets fan for a decent amount of time, im 35 now, have probably been watching the Jets every Sunday for 20+ years. I've suffered through dozens of QBs that I knew were dead on arrival. No special talent, no ability. Darnold is the only QB I've ever seen in a Jets uniform, other than Farve for a couple of weeks, that I thought has the potential to be really special.

Yes, he's been inconsistent, but he's put together many games that I haven't seen other QBs in this uniform put together before. Hes had long stretches of success to end each of his first two seasons. He improved in EVERY single category last year vs. his rookie year, even though we all know he had the worst OL any of us have ever seen, the worst group of receives in the NFL, a back up TE, and had freaking mono. Without Darnold last year this was the worst offense in NFL history, with Darnold they were a respectable unit, able to put up 30+ points a few times- unbelievable really. 

We all agree that Adam Gase is clueless, is not using Darnold to the best of his ability, and is potentially stunting faster growth. If we all agree on these things, why not WANT to give him as much opportunity as possible to see if he can survive this ******* mess? We are asking this kid to put a terrible team on his back and carry us, by himself. When he ****s up, he has Dowell Friggin Loggains to talk to. Lamar Jackson and Mahomes are great players, but they have incredible support systems around them. Its unbelievable. Every game, about half the plays I see are ones that you and I could make... they create systems around these players that lift them up. They build their confidence up, and then they let their talents take over. 

So it really saddens me to see a significant chunk of  you guys so ready to be out for blood. The kid struggles against the #1 pass D on a windy day and you're ready to crucify him. We need to be his support system until he either fails or succeeds. 

When is the right time to say Darnold is not very good? Those of us who have said it for a couple seasons now are always accused of "panicking." When the team eventually gives up on Darnold, those who point out his shortcomings  at that time will be accused of "beating a dead horse" and "stating the obvious." It's always the same pattern.

Conclusion: it's never the right time to criticize the Jets.

[heymangold]

It’s because he’s in year 3 and is still making rookie mistakes.  Also, we all know the coaching staff isn’t equipped or good enough to develop him properly.  There’s no weapons for him and time is running out on his rookie deal.  Sure, he’s shown glimpses.  But that doesn’t cut it in the NFL.  He needs to turn it around ASAP.

[Smashmouth]

He Stinks

[T0mShane]

He needs to be great for sixteen games this year or we’re shopping for a new QB in January. He just absolutely sucked for the first of those 16. 

[Y3k]

I give up, see you in a few weeks. 

[Y3k]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He needs to be great for sixteen games this year or we’re shopping for a new QB in January. He just absolutely sucked for the first of those 16. 

How many QBs in the NFL are great for 16 weeks? 

[heymangold]

1 minute ago, Y3k said:

I give up, see you in a few weeks. 

So you want us all to like Sam and give us reasons why and when we push back or give you our reasons you just give up?

[T0mShane]

Just now, Y3k said:

How many QBs in the NFL are great for 16 weeks? 

The ones that expect to get paid $35 million the following year.

[Y3k]

1 minute ago, heymangold said:

So you want us all to like Sam and give us reasons why and when we push back or give you our reasons you just give up?

If you don't see it I can't help you. 

 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He needs to be great for sixteen games this year or we’re shopping for a new QB in January. He just absolutely sucked for the first of those 16. 

Floor Sanchez, Ceiling Romo. When I expressed that opinion at the draft I was a "SOJF pessimist." Since I still hold that opinion, do I get my Optimistic Jets Fan merit badge now?

[Y3k]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

The ones that expect to get paid $35 million the following year.

Name a few

[Matt39]

His age is meaningless. If that were an issue he should have stayed in college another season. You are on the clock once you are drafted. 

[Dunnie]

I said before and ill say it again .,.. I am giving Darnold a full 16 games this year ... Here is what he needs to do.

1. Command the Offense : He cannot appear or be unsure.
2. Show poise under pressure
3. Display good decision making : Throwing to the deepest open receiver.  Note i did not say first available open receiver.
4. Employ improved mechanics and show velocity on some throws.
5. Accomplish at least 2-3 4th quarter comebacks. I want to see him rally the team to victories.
6. Hold guys accountable : I wan him in the face of guys making bonehead errors. You cannot always be mister softy.
7. Make adjustments at the line of scrimmage ... if Gase calls a sh*tty ass play .. audible out of it.
8. 2-1 TD/Int ratio.

I want th epressure to be on the D because of Darnold ... not on our O. How often did teams fear Brady as a Pat ?

That is all. I could give two sh*ts about winning games this year.

If he cannot do this in year three .. he will never be able to do this.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Dunnie

[T0mShane]

Just now, jgb said:

Floor Sanchez, Ceiling Romo. When I expressed that opinion at the draft I was a "SOJF pessimist." Since I still hold that opinion, do I get my Optimistic Jets Fan merit badge now?

I thought Romo was a good comparison, but Romo seems like a pipe dream at this point. 

[Y3k]

Is that really the expectation though? just to be clear. We need Darnold to be GREAT for 16 weeks, with this trash heap of a coach and team around him? Are you kidding me? 

[jgb]

Just now, T0mShane said:

I thought Romo was a good comparison, but Romo seems like a pipe dream at this point. 

Hence my demand to be recognized as a sunshiner!

[Y3k]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

His age is meaningless. If that were an issue he should have stayed in college another season. You are on the clock once you are drafted. 

That's irrational fan speak. Experience, coaching, and the team around you matters. 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, Y3k said:

That's irrational fan speak. Experience, coaching, and the team around you matters. 

There's also the belief that he was never a great prospect to begin with. The northeast fell in love with him because of one game.

[SAR I]

12 minutes ago, Y3k said:

So it really saddens me to see a significant chunk of  you guys so ready to be out for blood. The kid struggles against the #1 pass D on a windy day and you're ready to crucify him. We need to be his support system until he either fails or succeeds. 

I have given Darnold every benefit of every doubt, from youth to mono to weapons, I've been extremely lenient.

What happened in Buffalo is alarming.  We're allowed to lose on the road to a playoff team.  We are not allowed to have a quarterback making high school mistakes like throwing across the middle while running to the sidelines, missing wide open receivers, running out of bounds and taking a loss instead of throwing the ball away, misreading blitzes, throwing underneath with no timeouts in a two minute drill, and daydreaming during a TV timeout.  That's not coaching, that's not personnel, that's just a sh*t quarterback.

Darnold saw ghosts on Sunday, and that wasn't Bill Belichick on the opposing sidelines.  It's Year 3.  Time to grow up and act like a professional.

SAR I

[SR24]

People are freaking out because all we heard all off season was how much better Darnold is, how much more prepared he is going to be and how he's taken more control of the offense. Then we see that week 1. The sad reality we all need to accept is that our chances of drafting a QB just rose and is going to continue to rise unless Darnold can play better and that's a tough task given this schedule and our teams lack of play makers on either side of the ball. Noone on here, except for a few trolls want Darnold to be bad man but when he is you gotta call it how it is.   

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Y3k said:

That's irrational fan speak. Experience, coaching, and the team around you matters. 

The problem with this logic is that it is circular and never leads to accountability. QB performs poorly? "Bad supporting cast." Supporting cast performs poorly? "Bad QB."

QBs make their own weapons. Darnold elevates no one.

 

[ECURB]

Darnold just doesn’t have the mojo... don’t know how else to explain it.

I feel like 60yo Brett Favre would show up on Sunday and accomplish more without reading a playbook.

Reminds me of when they fixated on Sanchez learning the offense in and out instead of just letting him play naturally with some mistakes.

[Sonny Werblin]

9 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

I said before and ill say it again .,.. I am giving Darnold a full 16 games this year ... Here is what he needs to do.

1. Command the Offense : He cannot appear or be unsure.
2. Show poise under pressure
3. Display good decision making : Throwing to the deepest open receiver.  Note i did not say first available open receiver.
4. Employ improved mechanics and show velocity on some throws.
5. Accomplish at least 2-3 4th quarter comebacks. I want to see him rally the team to victories.
6. Hold guys accountable : I wan him in the face of guys making bonehead errors. You cannot always be mister softy.
7. Make adjustments at the line of scrimmage ... if Gase calls a sh*tty ass play .. audible out of it.
8. 2-1 TD/Int ratio.

That is all. I could give two sh*ts about winning games this year.

If he cannot do this in year three .. he will never be able to do this.

 

 

This is a very good list. You seem to include it by implication, but I would add that he must become the "leader" of the offense. I am somewhat taken aback that I've never seen Darnold do or say anything as a pro that makes him even appear to be a leader. He looked like he was a leader when he was at USC --- his teammates seemed to gravitate to him. Perhaps his personal failures have made him not feel he is worthy of the mantle of leadership? I'm not really sure. But, someone, needs to take him aside and tell him that this is HIS team, and if he does not start acting like it is HIS team, it won't be his team for long.

[SAR I]

11 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

He needs to be great for sixteen games this year or we’re shopping for a new QB in January. He just absolutely sucked for the first of those 16. 

Joe Flacco goes in, pulls a Nick Foles, and that's the end of Sam Darnold.

I don't see him getting 16 weeks to figure this out.  Not when we have an ex-Super Bowl MVP collecting dust on the sidelines.  Yeah, he's not great anymore, but he's a professional, he knows how to break a huddle after a TV timeout and how to throw the ball away to avoid a loss. 

Let me ask you, at 75% of his former self, does Joe Flacco win that game on Sunday?  I think he does.  Hell, Darnold almost won it playing like dogsh*t.

SAR I

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Y3k said:

Name a few

So, Dak Prescott put up 30/11/65%/99+ rating last year and couldn’t get a long term deal and had to settle for one year at $36mm. Darnold hasn’t even sniffed that kind of production and certainly doesn’t look primed to do it this year. Are you paying him more than Dak if he can’t even produce Dak numbers? Because you’re not paying him $30+ because you think he might be better whenever the talent improves around him.

[TuscanyTile2]

I agree with the OP.  It's ridiculous to give up on Darnold at this point.  He's young and has already shown promise despite trying circumstances.   And let's not forget that we have, by far, the worst coaching staff in the division.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Joe Flacco goes in, pulls a Nick Foles, and that's the end of Sam Darnold.

I don't see him getting 16 weeks to figure this out.  Not when we have an ex-Super Bowl MVP collecting dust on the sidelines.  Yeah, he's not great anymore, but he's a professional, he knows how to break a huddle after a TV timeout and how to throw the ball away to avoid a loss. 

Let me ask you, at 75% of his former self, does Joe Flacco win that game on Sunday?  I think he does.  Hell, Darnold almost won it playing like dogsh*t.

SAR I

I think what the offense needed in the first quarter, when receivers were letting balls bounce off their facemasks and guys had their heads down walking off the field after another three and out, was for a QB to scream his head off about getting their sh*t together, and Darnold was doing his “whoa bro” bullsh*t and the team was lethargic. 

[Y3k]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I have given Darnold every benefit of every doubt, from youth to mono to weapons, I've been extremely lenient.

What happened in Buffalo is alarming.  We're allowed to lose on the road to a playoff team.  We are not allowed to have a quarterback making high school mistakes like throwing across the middle while running to the sidelines, missing wide open receivers, running out of bounds and taking a loss instead of throwing the ball away, misreading blitzes, throwing underneath with no timeouts in a two minute drill, and daydreaming during a TV timeout.  That's not coaching, that's not personnel, that's just a sh*t quarterback.

Darnold saw ghosts on Sunday, and that wasn't Bill Belichick on the opposing sidelines.  It's Year 3.  Time to grow up and act like a professional.

SAR I

I think this is a somewhat fair and well articulated post. But l disagree with a few things. 

Missing receivers - yea I agree he was off. But this is not normal for Darnold, I don't see how this could be treated as anything other than he had a bad day. Hes typically and supremely accurate thrower... especially on the run. This is not a case of making "the same mistakes"

Missing wide open receivers... he missed crowder on a scramble. We are acting like this was happening the entire day. 

Throwing underneath with no TO. There was no other option there, took the gain to at least come home with some points. You wanted him to chuck it into the end zone off his back foot? 

Missreading blitzes.. I guess blitzes fail against every other QB in the NFL 100% of the time. He "miss read" ONE blitz... was thinking that an all out was coming and throwing to Hogan. The crowder TD was also an audible off a blitz.... 

Day dreaming during a time out. So you're making judgments off 2 seconds of camera time? Thats absurd. 

The pick was dumb. But I saw Brett Farve make mistakes like that his entire career. It doesn't make or break guys. We were down 21-0. It was third down, a defender was in his face (Couldn't have ran). Bad play, but the end of the world? It's been weeks since he made a mistake like that. The guy has clearly cut down the rate of the dumb picks... Why not see if we can limit those to say, 3 this year? Maybe then 2 next year? Then 1? Like is that really a hill to die on?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Y3k]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think what the offense needed in the first quarter, when receivers were letting balls bounce off their facemasks and guys had their heads down walking off the field after another three and out, was for a QB to scream his head off about getting their sh*t together, and Darnold was doing his “whoa bro” bullsh*t and the team was lethargic. 

You're smarter than that 

[JustInFudge]

It was week 1 and overreacting is what everyone does without fail, every single year.

That said, he was that bad.  It was concerning and the reactions are understandable.  Especially when the guy on the other side of the field isnt very good and ultimately the reason why the Bills are pretenders in the AFC and yet he looked 10x better in comparison to the kid we traded up for and passed on him to draft.  Totally justifiable when you put it all together.  

 

 

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I agree with the OP.  It's ridiculous to give up on Darnold at this point.  He's young and has already shown promise despite trying circumstances.   And let's not forget that we have, by far, the worst coaching staff in the division.

You may not agree, but after 27 starts, I wouldn't say the view that Darnold doesn't have "it" is "ridiculous."

[Smashmouth]

19 minutes ago, Y3k said:

If you don't see it I can't help you. 

 

See what exactly ? The bad mechanics ? The terrible Awareness ? Throwing across your body while rolling in the opposite direction ? Not seeing wide open WR's directly in front of you and running out of Bounds ? 

Hes goes up against San Fran this week one of the most pressure oriented defensive fronts in the NFL. Lets see how Sam handles that pressure. Or do we have to wait to play a terrible defense before Sam plays well ?

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, ECURB said:

Darnold just doesn’t have the mojo... don’t know how else to explain it.

I feel like 60yo Brett Favre would show up on Sunday and accomplish more without reading a playbook.

Reminds me of when they fixated on Sanchez learning the offense in and out instead of just letting him play naturally with some mistakes.

I think Darnold's issues arise from too much "thinking". He's not that kind of player. Gase has a "thinking man's" playbook. That's why Manning liked him so much. A QB only succeeds if the playbook is married to his talents. That is why Gase is the wrong coach. He is trying to make Darnold fit into his generic idea of what a QB does, rather than run a playbook that is tailored to what Darnold does well. 

Darnold needs a playbook tailored to his mobility and accuracy and his free wheeling style. One that is not afraid of risky play calls and challenges the QB to make plays. Rather than one that challenges the QB to dissect the D, identify the target based on coverages, and make an easy throw. That is NOT who Darnold is. Playing style-wise and mental makeup-wise -- he's not Tom Brady or Payton Manning. He's more in the line of Brett Favre, John Elway and Patrick Mahomes when it comes to mental makeup and play style. His an athlete and gun slinger. Let the kid play. 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

21 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I thought Romo was a good comparison, but Romo seems like a pipe dream at this point. 

Sanchez seems like a pipe dream at this point.