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Why were some of you so ready to panic?


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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Also Troy aikman, Drew Brees.

Brees in his third year 2-9 record.  11 tds, 15 ints, 57.6% comp rate

Brett Favre (traded) and John Elway as well.

 

Favre's 3rd year he had 19 TDs and 24 INTs.

image.png.3c9d6ccb55147386c0282cb37c7aadce.png

 

Elway's 3rd year he had 22 TDs and 23 INTs.image.png.ec686a44f301598febe63de8b1771c95.png

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I thought Romo was a good comparison, but Romo seems like a pipe dream at this point. 

I have given Darnold every benefit of every doubt, from youth to mono to weapons, I've been extremely lenient. What happened in Buffalo is alarming.  We're allowed to lose on the road to a playof

He needs to be great for sixteen games this year or we’re shopping for a new QB in January. He just absolutely sucked for the first of those 16. 

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27 minutes ago, Y3k said:

If you think the fan and media narrative doesn't affect players and teams you're sadly mistaken. 

Please let me repeat myself:  If what we say here actually DID matter to Sam Darnold (or any other player), I would cut them on the god damn spot.

We don't need players so horribly soft and sensitive, that forum talk makes them play worse.

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8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Please let me repeat myself:  If what we say here actually DID matter to Sam Darnold (or any other player), I would cut them on the god damn spot.

We don't need players so horribly soft and sensitive, that forum talk makes them play worse.

I'm not referring to Sam Darnold, I'm referring to Joe Douglas and Adam Gase. 

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3 hours ago, Y3k said:

How many QBs in the NFL are great for 16 weeks? 

Think the elephant in the room is JD's evaluation of Darnold. JD has been a part of 3 SB teams on 2 different teams and has obviously seen very good built teams, but what the QBs had to get to and win those SBs. If he doesn't see that in Darnold between the time he took over and going forward he likely has to say I do not think this kid is getting us to a SB and that is our main goal. He said recently he would not be happy till they won a SB, so if he feels he knows what a SB QB looks like and we do not have one he will probably try to get one sometime in the future and not extend Darnold. It's that simple. We all want to see Darnold succeed, making the Jets very good to great, but it is all up to JD and as they say it is in the eye of the beholder. Only issue is those Ravens and Eagles teams were built so well around the QBs they had and what if that problem is what is causing Darnold to faulter. Evaluating this for JD can be made harder due to that.

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Because we are READY for a long term answer at QB. Now I think Darnold has all the talent in the world, but Sunday wasn't it. The Geno running out of bounds play bothered me a ton, especially after the replay came out and Crowder was streaking down the field wide open for a TD right in front of him... that isn't the Darnold who was cool under pressure all this time

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42 minutes ago, Y3k said:

If you think the fan and media narrative doesn't affect players and teams you're sadly mistaken. 

 

4 minutes ago, Y3k said:

I'm not referring to Sam Darnold, I'm referring to Joe Douglas and Adam Gase

Make up your mind.  The thread was about Darnold, you said players, now you mean the Coach and Front Office?

In any event, my view doesn't change

If Joe Douglas or Adam Gase reads even a single word here at JN, my only message to them would be a clear and ringing "f' off and get back to work you babies".

They do not belong here, nor should what is said here matter to them in any way whatsoever.  They have an entire marketing department to worry about what the "fans think", as if it mattered to them.

Stop making bad excuses.

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17 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Think the elephant in the room is JD's evaluation of Darnold. JD has been a part of 3 SB teams on 2 different teams and has obviously seen very good built teams, but what the QBs had to get to and win those SBs. If he doesn't see that in Darnold between the time he took over and going forward he likely has to say I do not think this kid is getting us to a SB and that is our main goal. He said recently he would not be happy till they won a SB, so if he feels he knows what a SB QB looks like and we do not have one he will probably try to get one sometime in the future and not extend Darnold. It's that simple. We all want to see Darnold succeed, making the Jets very good to great, but it is all up to JD and as they say it is in the eye of the beholder. Only issue is those Ravens and Eagles teams were built so well around the QBs they had and what if that problem is what is causing Darnold to faulter. Evaluating this for JD can be made harder due to that.

Douglas came from Philly, where they are witnessing the destruction of Wentz because of a failure to build around him. 

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14 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

Make up your mind.  The thread was about Darnold, you said players, now you mean the Coach and Front Office?

In any event, my view doesn't change

If Joe Douglas or Adam Gase reads even a single word here at JN, my only message to them would be a clear and ringing "f' off and get back to work you babies".

They do not belong here, nor should what is said here matter to them in any way whatsoever.  They have an entire marketing department to worry about what the "fans think", as if it mattered to them.

Stop making bad excuses.

I am not making excuses for anything. 

Let me give you an example of what worries me. 

Adam Gase being on the hottest of seats and using this "Darnold is done" narrative as a scape goat. Instead of trying to help the young QB he turns on him in order to save his job. 

Now I agree that hopefully the QBs play makes that irrelevant. 

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38 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Brett Favre (traded) and John Elway as well.

 

Favre's 3rd year he had 19 TDs and 24 INTs.

image.png.3c9d6ccb55147386c0282cb37c7aadce.png

 

Elway's 3rd year he had 22 TDs and 23 INTs.image.png.ec686a44f301598febe63de8b1771c95.png

This is horsesh*t ... Today's passing game is infinitely more conducive to higher TD/Int percentages.

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it's one or the other --

reaction or rationalization.

rationalizers are called homers, and reactors are accused of hysteria, overreaction, panic.

bottomline -- Darnold looks like garbage right now, and the Jets overall looked unprepared -- like the worst team in the NFL. Down 21-0 in what the first quarter -- to a team we were competitive with last year -- was not a good look

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26 minutes ago, Y3k said:

Let me give you an example of what worries me. 

Adam Gase being on the hottest of seats and using this "Darnold is done" narrative as a scape goat. Instead of trying to help the young QB he turns on him in order to save his job. 

What that says to me is that Adam Gase is an under-bus-throwing, back-stabbing dick.

If he IS indeed "that kind of guy", then we should all hope he gets fired as soon as is reasonable.

We should NOT, however, offer up censored opinions of false praise on a forum to try and "protect" Darnold from such an outcome.

First, we cannot protect him no matter what we say.  We can only watch, evaluate and opine.

Second, the pressure on Gase will exist no matter what any of us here say or do.  As it should, we suck and have sucked for a long time now.  It's on Gase to do the right, or wrong, thing.  Not us.  

Quote

Now I agree that hopefully the QBs play makes that irrelevant. 

We all do. 

Some of us simply don't think it's going to happen, and can see it clearly hasn't happened yet, no matter how much we want it to.

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3 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Eventually the excuses simply don't matter any more. It's at a point where we have to see something from Sam, some consistency at least. He has to show that he can be a top 10 QB in this league if we're to justify passing on a top QB in the next draft. At the minute he's showing nothing close to that. 

He's been put in a terrible situation that only seems to be getting worse. That sucks for him but he can still only be judged on what he's done on the field - His performance on Sunday was terrible even relative to what was around him - he was one of the worst performers on either team if not the worst.

If right now we had the #1 pick passing on Lawrence in the hope that Sam may someday work out in a better situation would be total insanity. 

Good post in so much as (IMHO) Jets fans and FO get and stay married to their QB sometimes way past the expiration date.  That date seems to be coming due this season unless Sam plays a 35-40% better.    

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10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

What that says to me is that Adam Gase is an under-bus-throwing, back-stabbing dick.

If he IS indeed "that kind of guy", then we should all hope he gets fired as soon as is reasonable.

We should NOT, however, offer up censored opinions of false praise on a forum to try and "protect" Darnold from such an outcome.

First, we cannot protect him no matter what we say.  We can only watch, evaluate and opine.

Second, the pressure on Gase will exist no matter what any of us here say or do.  As it should, we suck and have sucked for a long time now.  It's on Gase to do the right, or wrong, thing.  Not us.  

We all do. 

Some of us simply don't think it's going to happen, and can see it clearly hasn't happened yet, no matter how much we want it to.

Objectively he improved in every category vs his rookie year, under terrible circumstances, do you agree? This year is about making similar progress. 

65% comp
3700-4200 yds
25+ TDs
12 or fewer ints 

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3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Fair enough.  I was (and still am) very optimistic about Sam.  It's way too early to give up on him.  Imagine he ends up in New England under BB?  He'd be absolutely thriving in that situation.  

FFS, you can't make this part of your argument or thinking.   

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3 hours ago, Ohhthepain said:

This is why we're seeing regression.  This is why the offense looks so abysmal. Hes playing in a system that best suits Peyton Manning, not Sam Darnold. The Gase hire was never going to work from day 1 because of this.

Go back to year one and look at his tape. Jeremy Bates had Sam slingin it around. It's actually sad to see him play like this. 

 

I loved Bates and still to this day don't understand why he was let go.  

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12 minutes ago, Y3k said:

Objectively he improved in every category vs his rookie year, under terrible circumstances, do you agree?

My agreement isn't required, his statistical production in fact increased from 2018 to 2019.

12 minutes ago, Y3k said:

This year is about making similar progress. 

65% comp
3700-4200 yds
25+ TDs
12 or fewer ints 

Yes, he is required (IMO) to make materially progress in production and quality of play and durability (i.e. play all 16 games).

So far, and it is one game, that is not the direction we're moving.

But he will get all of this year, and surely all of next year as well, to show us what he is before he will be resigned or cut loose.

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1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

This is horsesh*t ... Today's passing game is infinitely more conducive to higher TD/Int percentages.

True, but we're talking about HOFers here (Favre, Elway, Aikman, Brees). 

And fwiw, Brees is still playing, so his 3rd year is still relevant.

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36 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

FFS, you can't make this part of your argument or thinking.   

Yes I can.  Part of proving to yourself that you really believe a QB is no good is answering the question "would it make you uneasy if he were playing for your rival?"

For example, if Hackenburg were playing for the Patriots under BB, I wouldn't care.  But Darnold playing under BB would scare the heck out of me.  That's the real gut-check.

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5 hours ago, Y3k said:

I'm talking specifically about Darnold here... just trying to understand WTF is going on. 

This is a young player, the youngest player start at QB 2 years ago, and still younger than the #1 pick in the draft this year.  He was also an inexperienced player, he played basically 1 season of high school football and less than 2 years at USC. He wasn't one of those groomed since birth QBs that attended 20k QB camps every year in high school. He's raw. 

I've been a Jets fan for a decent amount of time, im 35 now, have probably been watching the Jets every Sunday for 20+ years. I've suffered through dozens of QBs that I knew were dead on arrival. No special talent, no ability. Darnold is the only QB I've ever seen in a Jets uniform, other than Farve for a couple of weeks, that I thought has the potential to be really special.

Yes, he's been inconsistent, but he's put together many games that I haven't seen other QBs in this uniform put together before. Hes had long stretches of success to end each of his first two seasons. He improved in EVERY single category last year vs. his rookie year, even though we all know he had the worst OL any of us have ever seen, the worst group of receives in the NFL, a back up TE, and had freaking mono. Without Darnold last year this was the worst offense in NFL history, with Darnold they were a respectable unit, able to put up 30+ points a few times- unbelievable really. 

We all agree that Adam Gase is clueless, is not using Darnold to the best of his ability, and is potentially stunting faster growth. If we all agree on these things, why not WANT to give him as much opportunity as possible to see if he can survive this ******* mess? We are asking this kid to put a terrible team on his back and carry us, by himself. When he ****s up, he has Dowell Friggin Loggains to talk to. Lamar Jackson and Mahomes are great players, but they have incredible support systems around them. Its unbelievable. Every game, about half the plays I see are ones that you and I could make... they create systems around these players that lift them up. They build their confidence up, and then they let their talents take over. 

So it really saddens me to see a significant chunk of  you guys so ready to be out for blood. The kid struggles against the #1 pass D on a windy day and you're ready to crucify him. We need to be his support system until he either fails or succeeds. 

It’s the simple and easy thing to do just declare Sam Darnold = Browning Nagle

 

It’s more complicated to actually look at the crappy roster and analyze Gase’s dumb decisions like only running it 15x the entire game

 

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37 minutes ago, Y3k said:

Objectively he improved in every category vs his rookie year, under terrible circumstances, do you agree? This year is about making similar progress. 

65% comp
3700-4200 yds
25+ TDs
12 or fewer ints 

Yeah but according to Warfish Sam sucks because he doesn’t have a manly beard, a girly arm and he’s never thrown 6 picks in a game like his hero Fitz who couldn’t even throw a touchdown yesterday facing Belichick’s backup secondary 

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4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Yes ! and how many times did you see scheme have receivers running wide open in the middle of the field. I honestly can't remember when ive seen a Jet WR or RB or TE running wide open due to scheme. Obviously thats on the coach and when it does happen the QB's are so shocked they crumble and make a bad throw LOL

i didnt watch the game cos the team is not good enough for me to waste my time. however, 1st 2 throws the receivers are OPEN and he misses.,..  that horrible play where he ran outta bounds? the WR went behind...  thats a huge chunk (Baldinger comments) Just that small sample is 3 completions and 50+ yds...

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I really didn’t. Nothing in his past has shown he’s worthy of an extension, so he has this year to change that. He has to put together 16 games where he looks a lot better than he has at any point prior because he’s up against the clock. His first time out under those conditions was awful. He needs to start looking like an elite QB here the rest of the way or it’s reset time.

don;yt even THINK it til end of 4th year. he's playing b/u level QB.

4 hours ago, jgb said:

I can count the number of QBs on one hand who have starts to their career similar to Darnold's and have become even consistent above-average QBs in the league.

Betting on Darnold to get it is the realm of hope at this point and not a good bet. This is why some of us called for legitimate competition in the QB room.

the exception isn;t  da rule. scrap heap of 1st rnd QBs is rather large.

4 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

The best argument I can make for Darnold right now is that he's only played 4 seasons of football at QB ever. That includes his time in the NFL, college, and high school. He's very young and new to the position.

He has put together many good games but he's never turned the corner. He goes back to being inconsistent. That's a problem.

Gase is clueless but I think it's a cop out to just blame the coaching staff. It's like it has to be everyones fault but Darnold's. Adam Gase wasn't missing receivers on Sunday. Sam Darnold was. At some point there has to be accountability.

If the Jets go on to have a really bad season and get a good draft pick and Darnold is still a question mark, the Jets would be wise to fire Gase (obviously), hire an offensive minded coach, and draft a QB like Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields instead of trying to find the next head coach that can fix Sam Darnold. 

I dont think those mechanics are fixable...    and "he's only plyed 4 yrs" is a indictment of really bad drafting.

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed, but I think an elite QB can overcome a lot of the external factors and at least show that he’s not part and parcel of the problems he’s facing. Watson is down there carrying Bill O’Brien, Aaron Rodgers boosted Mike McCarthy with a bunch of JAGs, Russell Wilson excels with CFL talent around him on offense. Stafford consistently produces with the garbage he’s saddled with as head coach. I don’t envy the position Darnold is in, but if he wants $35mm plus, he has to overcome what’s around him. That’s why the top QBs get that money in the first place

this. Darnold is Andy Dalton 2.0   If all is well around him he can be a middling to good QB capable of a couple/fewa above average seasons.

4 hours ago, Guilhermezmc said:

You can't possible look at last year and this first game and think this is the guy that can lead a franchise to the superbowl

He is unexceptional in every way. Except his mechanics , whcih are uncommonly bad for a QB at this level.

Aside- people talk about his mobility...  whcih is avg to below avg. Look around the league people...  ffs

4 hours ago, Gangrene said:

I've posted similar thoughts. Gase is a bright dude, a football nerd but his limitations as a coach are clear. Gase is not the greatest communicator, not a natural teacher or leader.

Adam Gase needs a meticulous, minutia-obsessed qb who can absorb chunks of information quickly. (it's a small subset of qbs that actually work in Gase's system.)

Sam processes information in a different way, he's improvisational, mobile;  he needs a coach who can be creative on the fly and likely keep things simple. 

Darnold comes across like he's faking it in the media. He's in over his head at the moment.

He is struggling in the Gase offense, it's not so much Adam Gase's fault as it is a really bad fit for both of them.

 

Good post. INtriguing. This is why I was wondering about Sam's processing, cos he seems late too often, and he IS JITTERY.

And adding the Manning /Gase angle is bright. Can Sam ID D's well? In Gases system, in ANY system...he effed it up at USC as well at times, and did it his first year with Bates Motel. Do we need a NFL PlayBook for Dummies?

Also, his mobility is way overrated. He does okay sliding and such, but it is rare that he makes a really play wih his feet., Sure, it happens.

But not even as good as young Rottenburger. 

4 hours ago, CTM said:

Say what you want about QBase but for sure it doesn't over rate a prime time bowl game performance the way people do.

For QB's drafted in the last 3 years it rates Darnold behind:

Rosen, Mayfield, Lamar, Murray, Haskins, Burrow, Tua, Herbet and Fromm. He's is projection is nearly equal to Jalen Hurt. The data suggested he was a 3rd or 4th round prospect and the performance so far looks about that range as well.

Just as QBR doesnt count the last stupid meaningless drive. All in all, Buffalo game was a Sam career microcosm. Play badly enough so that your team is out of the game, then look decent in the time that doesnt really matter. 

3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

DVOA and DYAR are, as best as can be measured, context.  And, the Jets didn't even have the worst offensive line in the league last year, let alone NFL history.

But, you really make the case for yourself as a thoughtful analyst with infantile insults and hyperbole.

He's the reality:  You have no idea what you're talking about or watching.  You'll be proven wrong.  In most ways, you already have been.  Then you'll pretend none of these conversations ever happened.

must be Nico 2.0, right?   He's like POTUS and the virus- " It will magically disappear"   Supreme accuracy? That's insane.

3 hours ago, peebag said:

My list of items that are troubling about the state of the 2020 New York Jets does not have Sam Darnold on it.

 

Perspective. Props. IT IS JUST FOOTBALL.

Blood? Who wants Sams blood? Well, maybe the Red Cross cos doanting is a goodthing. Otherwise I have no beef withthe kid. Nice guy. THe whole picking on him cos he's from California is weird to me...  IDGAF where any QB is from. But, to eachtheir own and all.

 

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That is what many people here obviously think. I am not saying that Darnold will be a top 5-10 QB in the league. However, the rest of the team was so poor that he basically had to be almost perfect to give the Jets a chance to win against the superior Bills (where QB's averages a rating of 80 last year).

Most other QB's can make a myriad of mistakes and still have their teams win. However, Darnold - based on the Jets depleted talent vs. the Bills - could not.

Although I doubt that he will ever be perfect in a game, a believe that we will see better results once the OL gels and the injured WR return.

Is that really the expectation though? just to be clear. We need Darnold to be GREAT for 16 weeks, with this trash heap of a coach and team around him? Are you kidding me? 


Sent from my SM-G975U using JetNation.com mobile app

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Not sure what game you watched , but if Sam is average or slightly above the Jets had a chance to steal that game. 

5 minutes ago, JohnnyD said:

That is what many people here obviously think. I am not saying that Darnold will be a top 5-10 QB in the league. However, the rest of the team was so poor that he basically had to be almost perfect to give the Jets a chance to win against the superior Bills (where QB's averages a rating of 80 last year).

Most other QB's can make a myriad of mistakes and still have their teams win. However, Darnold - based on the Jets depleted talent vs. the Bills - could not.

Although I doubt that he will ever be perfect in a game, a believe that we will see better results once the OL gels and the injured WR return.

 


Sent from my SM-G975U using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

Not sure what game you watched, but if Sam is average or slightly above the Jets had a chance to steal that game.  He was putrid . Now let's hope for all our sake's he pulls his head out of  his ass and performs much better this week. 

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21 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Not sure what game you watched , but if Sam is average or slightly above the Jets had a chance to steal that game. 

Not sure what game you watched, but if Sam is average or slightly above the Jets had a chance to steal that game.  He was putrid . Now let's hope for all our sake's he pulls his head out of  his ass and performs much better this week. 

Take the first play of the game as an example. Collapsed pocket, QB needs to scramble and throw a 25 yard dime on the move to make the play a success. "Perfect" may not be the best way to articulate it, think of everything having an extreme level of difficulty and requiring near perfect execution. Herndon had a chance to grab that ball and bail out his QB... he didn't. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

This is horsesh*t ... Today's passing game is infinitely more conducive to higher TD/Int percentages.

Well Earl Morrall didn't have a winning record until season 8 and didn't win more than 10 games until season 15. So we need to wait only 12 more years on Darnold. Don't wanna give up too early now!

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33 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

i didnt watch the game cos the team is not good enough for me to waste my time. however, 1st 2 throws the receivers are OPEN and he misses.,..  that horrible play where he ran outta bounds? the WR went behind...  thats a huge chunk (Baldinger comments) Just that small sample is 3 completions and 50+ yds...

don;yt even THINK it til end of 4th year. he's playing b/u level QB.

the exception isn;t  da rule. scrap heap of 1st rnd QBs is rather large.

I dont think those mechanics are fixable...    and "he's only plyed 4 yrs" is a indictment of really bad drafting.

this. Darnold is Andy Dalton 2.0   If all is well around him he can be a middling to good QB capable of a couple/fewa above average seasons.

He is unexceptional in every way. Except his mechanics , whcih are uncommonly bad for a QB at this level.

Aside- people talk about his mobility...  whcih is avg to below avg. Look around the league people...  ffs

Good post. INtriguing. This is why I was wondering about Sam's processing, cos he seems late too often, and he IS JITTERY.

And adding the Manning /Gase angle is bright. Can Sam ID D's well? In Gases system, in ANY system...he effed it up at USC as well at times, and did it his first year with Bates Motel. Do we need a NFL PlayBook for Dummies?

Also, his mobility is way overrated. He does okay sliding and such, but it is rare that he makes a really play wih his feet., Sure, it happens.

But not even as good as young Rottenburger. 

Just as QBR doesnt count the last stupid meaningless drive. All in all, Buffalo game was a Sam career microcosm. Play badly enough so that your team is out of the game, then look decent in the time that doesnt really matter. 

must be Nico 2.0, right?   He's like POTUS and the virus- " It will magically disappear"   Supreme accuracy? That's insane.

Perspective. Props. IT IS JUST FOOTBALL.

Blood? Who wants Sams blood? Well, maybe the Red Cross cos doanting is a goodthing. Otherwise I have no beef withthe kid. Nice guy. THe whole picking on him cos he's from California is weird to me...  IDGAF where any QB is from. But, to eachtheir own and all.

 

 

Right now the game that he once was had so much fun with it when he felt comfortable in it, has become a nightmare. He's rushing his throws, he looks panicked. He doesn't look like a third year qb. There's a disconnect between qb and coach.

There are coaches out there who have an ability to strip the game down to just football, something he can thrive in and make it fun again for him. I don't think Adam Gase is one of those people.

As the online continues to improve as they play together Darnold will get better. 

The question is how much can improve with this coach or how much can Adam Gase get out of this quarterback? I'm guessing there is a low ceiling on what these two can achieve together.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Indeed.  If you don't think Darnold is good you get childish insults thrown at your face.  That was the final telltale sign its him.

And he got banned for a month for exactly that kind of behavior.  They never learn....

If it's Nico, it's quite the long con, as they were both posting members at the same time.  Unless y3k showed up during Nico's first banning?

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