My Lord, this team is worst coached I ever saw

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, CSNY said:

Not a Gase fan and I believe he is not a good HC but have to give him this season. If there is tangible proof that team is going in the right direction and is at the very least is competitive then he gets to come back but will be on a very very short leash the following year. Or maybe use Gases stubbornness to JD’s advantage JD tells Gase to fire his OC this year and if Gase is that stubborn maybe he would quit and problem is solved. Unlikely scenario but one can dream 

JD has no authority over Gase. 

Bell getting injured was a blessing for this team. I honestly think that as a runner he is at the very bottom of the league he is horrible, slow and a terrible terrible fit. We need Perrine.

[Jet_Engine1]

46 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Gates doesn't care what the media or the fans think of him so he makes no effort in either direction. This offends both groups but that is of no consequence to him.

Doubt he cares what the players think of him. In his mind it's not relevant.

He may care what JD and the Johnson brothers think, but more out of necessity than because he thinks they are peers.

Scary.

Who is Gates?

[Philc1]

13 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

JD has no authority over Gase. 

Bell getting injured was a blessing for this team. I honestly think that as a runner he is at the very bottom of the league he is horrible, slow and a terrible terrible fit. We need Perrine.

Bell getting injured is going to be a blessing in disguise 

Adams was noticeably faster last Sunday.  Gore is going to be foaming at the mouth to get revenge against the 49ers.  Gase may have abandoned the run last Sunday because Bell looked like slow as f ck

[greenwichjetfan]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

He calls the bad plays that don’t work.

No one’s saying he does it purposefully. Everyone’s saying that he doesn’t realize he’s calling the bad plays that don’t work, and everyone’s saying that it’s been like this every time he’s had that responsibility and didn’t have Peyton to make it work. 

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

No one’s saying he does it purposefully. Everyone’s saying that he doesn’t realize he’s calling the bad plays that don’t work, and everyone’s saying that it’s been like this every time he’s had that responsibility and didn’t have Peyton to make it work. 

Wait so a tight end screen on first down is a bad play?

[DoubleDown]

I'm not sure how you can watch the modern offenses being run throughout the league, watch a Jets game as a comparison, and not come away thinking that an Adam Gase offense is extremely VANILLA.

There is very little creativity and very little attempt to keep defenses off balance and guessing.  The formations seem to give away the play (run vs. pass).  There is very little, if any, motion pre-snap which gives the quarterback hints into man or zone coverage.  There is very little, if any, hard snap counts to draw defenders offside or expose a potential blitzer.

I just don't get it.  This is fairly basic, fundamental stuff.  I've been clamoring for an offensive minded head coach for years.  We finally got one, but he doesn't seem to be doing the things I would expect an offensive guru to be doing.

[SouthernJet]

12 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Football seems too complicated to replace a HC mid-season (let alone early season).  We may as well stick with Gase and hope the team can turn it around.  There are a couple of reasons to hope we might get better anyway:

-Very limited pre-season.  Maybe the team will gel as the weeks go on.

-There's an extra wildcard this year so 8-8 could get us in

-Mims and Perine will come back at some point.

-Maybe someone emerges (Sam?) an pulls us out of the morass?

-The unknown.  We're only 1 week in so there's plenty of time for unpredictible stuff to happen.  You never know with injuries, players coming from nowhere, etc.  Stuff does happen (though usually not in a good way for us).  But let's see.

-Braden Mann has only begun to unleash his powers.

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, SouthernJet said:

It is just horrid. They play basic crap ypu see since Pop Warner. No creativity.

NOTICE that Josh Allen was WORST NFDL QB throwing routes 20+ yards in 2019. So what do Bills coaches do? Use his skills, dump most long routes, and go to dump offs, screens and 5-15 yard slants (John Brown). 

Would Gase ever be that thoughtful and smart? No, he is too arrogant to scheme to his players. Hell, even Belichick admitted ot altering to Cams strength.s

I dont know who right coach is, but it is not Gase.

The team has no heart cause they know Gase a dunce and they dont like him on top of that.

If Douglas like job Gregg Williams did with Browns and from what I hear they think Hines Ward a young up and coming star coach I would fire Gase/Loggains/Vitt now, make GreggW HC/DC and promote Hines Ward to OffCoord.

You watch the different attitude. We may lose but you watch heart and more innovative gameplan..

If Douglas has someone else in mid, well I guess we stuck with Gase until January.

Go Jets,,,whoopie

I'm trying to figure out who youre complaining about Gase or Williams.

Wasn't it GWs at fault for not recognizing the Bills were going to use the Jets aggression on defense to their advantage by going with quick hitting short passes and by running Allen? 

 

[SouthernJet]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

I'm trying to figure out who youre complaining about Gase or Williams.

Wasn't it GWs at fault for not recognizing the Bills were going to use the Jets aggression on defense to their advantage by going with quick hitting short passes and by running Allen? 

 

come on, Gregg proven commodity and MLBs are what stops those plays which we dont have.

If GW not Douglas choice fine, we wait, but something has to be done and GW proven record of players bonding to him. We need a CEO HC who gains respect. Sadly Jets D isnt good enuf now to stop but I love how Bills adapted to Josh weaknesses,,Gase is like duhhh run its 2nd and long LOL

[jacarter220]

7 minutes ago, SouthernJet said:

come on, Gregg proven commodity and MLBs are what stops those plays which we dont have.

If GW not Douglas choice fine, we wait, but something has to be done and GW proven record of players bonding to him. We need a CEO HC who gains respect. Sadly Jets D isnt good enuf now to stop but I love how Bills adapted to Josh weaknesses,,Gase is like duhhh run its 2nd and long LOL

Say what you want about Sean McDermott, but he is a leader of men. His players would take a bullet for him. 

There's so much more to being a head coach in the NFL than X's and O's. Actually, X's and O's have very little to do with being a great head coach.  How you lead, how you manage people and personalities matters. Culture matters. It sounds corny as hell, but just look what McDermott has done in Buffalo. It works.

Until the Jets figure that out, they will continue the HC fire and hire cycle and be stuck in mediocrity.

[BCJet]

10 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Good points, wont dismiss anyones opinion.  This to me is a different conversation however than he "SUCKS AS A COACH". To me if you want to hit the nail on the head with criticism of Gase from an offensive standpoint you say "he is not a good fit" for this team. If you want an offense built off bootlegs and roll outs then you develop something like a SF or a LAR who are built off outside zone plays. Gase has always favored an inside zone to compliment his west coast principals. So the two styles are opposite.  Gase also favors flooding zones, and using crossers to put defenders in binds moving guys to vacated areas in coverage.  This in principal is similar to what those offenses are doing in theory as well, but they are cutting the field in half when those plays are run, easier more direct reads.  Gase system is a full field read offense. 

The problem with his offense to me is it can be very complex, it isnt an easy offense to run, and to me is a poor fit for Darnold, but not because it isnt a Roll out/bootleg set up (which i think he would do well in as well) but because it really benefits from having a QB that can process information at a high speed and make decisions quickly.  Darnold is still pretty green in his development so to me this is a poor fit currently. 

 

So again, the argument people should be having isnt whether Gase is a bad coach, but whether he is a good fit for his style of offense to what we are currently constructed to be. 

So the issue I see with the line of thinking is that if he's not a good fit here, and he wasn't a good fit with Tannenhill, then what we are saying is that he is only good with a HOF, drop back passer which isnt easy to find, especially in 2020.

I always balked at the notion that "Rex just needs good corners and his defense will be elite".  Thats not what the case was.  Rex need ELITE players to make his defense work because he constantly sent a ton of pressure.  The guy had 3 HOF players in Reed, Suggs and Ray Lewis in Baltimore.  He then not only had a HOF in Revis but brought in Cro as well.  Shouldn't a good DC be able to run a system when he doesnt have elite talent?  

IMO when you look at the good coordinators, they dont even have a system.  Sean Payton has changed his philosophy as Brees has gotten older and can't throw as deep.  The Pats dont even have a true system, they adapted to who they had on their offense and who they were playing.  

If Gase wants to be a "good coach" he should have used the entire offseason to study a team like the Titans who used zone concepts along with........PLAY ACTION, to put their athletic QB in position to succeed.  Keep the terminology the same, but you can take other teams schemes and tweak your own to put your personnel in the best position to succeed.  

[BCJet]

8 minutes ago, SouthernJet said:

come on, Gregg proven commodity and MLBs are what stops those plays which we dont have.

If GW not Douglas choice fine, we wait, but something has to be done and GW proven record of players bonding to him. We need a CEO HC who gains respect. Sadly Jets D isnt good enuf now to stop but I love how Bills adapted to Josh weaknesses,,Gase is like duhhh run its 2nd and long LOL

The Bills moved to a ton of play action on sunday and intermediate throws as that is what Allen does best.  They actually looked at the player and the stats from last year and ADAPTED.

Gase looked at last year, said "well the OL was bad and Leveon isnt a good zone runner" (both of which are true btw), its the players not me - ill just keep doing what I've done before.  

Absolutely zero humility or leadership.

[Chrebetfan80]

10 hours ago, Happy Clouds said:

I understand what you’re saying, but I think a good coach also needs to adjust his schemes  to better fit the strengths of his players. 

Understandable, and I dont think he doesnt do that, but the offense is what it is, even dumbed down its a complex offense to run.  Darnold can run the system, he's just not up to snuff yet in terms of his processing.  

[SouthernJet]

5 minutes ago, BCJet said:

The Bills moved to a ton of play action on sunday and intermediate throws as that is what Allen does best.  They actually looked at the player and the stats from last year and ADAPTED.

Gase looked at last year, said "well the OL was bad and Leveon isnt a good zone runner" (both of which are true btw), its the players not me - ill just keep doing what I've done before.  

Absolutely zero humility or leadership.

josh rated last in nfl last year throeing 20 yards and longer patterns, bills smart, threw most out and went to short game, smart coaching,,adaptive

[BCJet]

1 minute ago, SouthernJet said:

josh rated last in nfl last year throeing 20 yards and longer patterns, bills smart, threw most out and went to short game, smart coaching,,adaptive

Its almost as if the information is available and able to use....

Ill never forget the Pats win years ago vs the Colts when they ran 45 times or something.  BB was like "well the colts can't stop the run so we ran more".  Sometimes the simplest solution is the right one.

[Jet Nut]

24 minutes ago, SouthernJet said:

come on, Gregg proven commodity and MLBs are what stops those plays which we dont have.

If GW not Douglas choice fine, we wait, but something has to be done and GW proven record of players bonding to him. We need a CEO HC who gains respect. Sadly Jets D isnt good enuf now to stop but I love how Bills adapted to Josh weaknesses,,Gase is like duhhh run its 2nd and long LOL

The defense was torched by being over aggressive and the Bills taking advantage of that aggression.  I'm not complaining, I'm pointing out what happened.  No one adapted to Allens weaknesses, they attacked the Jets weaknesses and aggressiveness.  

I'm not opposed to Greg Williams as HC, I'd take him in a second if he could get a real OC in here who could get Sam and the O moving.  But the Bills game wasn't the game to use as a reason why any more than blaming the offense on Sam or Gase for that game.  If you dont have WRs, dont have WRs who get open, you wont ever be a viable offense in this NFL, thats just the way it is

[Mackman55]

11 hours ago, BCJet said:

Im not a coach nor do I have the all 22 so disregard my opinion if you would like.

When was the last time you saw us run a back shoulder throw?  How about a pick play?  How about a designed rollout/moving pocket - we dont even run play action.  How about a designed run by sam?

The contact rules have changed the game over the last few seasons and there are ways to get at least a few cheap completions each game.  RPO plays allow an athletic QB like Sam to get a relatively easy read and move the chains.  Motion and misdirection can help an OL that doesnt have elite talent and help a QB keep a defense off balance but we dont run any misdirection.  

How about matching your personnel to your gameplan.  We were down Mims and Vincent Smith, 2 of our 4 top WRs and both player who can stretch the field.  We also had our TE back for the first time in a year, along with last years starter.   Did Gase go with a ton of 2 TE sets to allow Sam to have a run and pass play called in the huddle and then change at the line - nope.  Instead we used Chris Hogan who doesnt require any safety help and allowed buffalo to double perriman and not  give up any big plays.

The guy has had two good seasons as a coordinator, and that was with a QB who basically called the offense himself at the LOS.  Not sure how worse this team could be prepared and play then what we saw sunday

Good post! How about a quick slant? How about a "jet sweep". How about an RPO? They did nothing to keep the defense off balance or guessing.

[Sonny Werblin]

12 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

I'm not sure how you can watch the modern offenses being run throughout the league, watch a Jets game as a comparison, and not come away thinking that an Adam Gase offense is extremely VANILLA.

There is very little creativity and very little attempt to keep defenses off balance and guessing.  The formations seem to give away the play (run vs. pass).  There is very little, if any, motion pre-snap which gives the quarterback hints into man or zone coverage.  There is very little, if any, hard snap counts to draw defenders offside or expose a potential blitzer.

I just don't get it.  This is fairly basic, fundamental stuff.  I've been clamoring for an offensive minded head coach for years.  We finally got one, but he doesn't seem to be doing the things I would expect an offensive guru to be doing.

You don't even have to be super-creative. The Rams runs the same 6 or 7 plays from different formations for most of their games. Why are they good at it: 1) they have talented players; 2) the coaching staff has them prepared to execute the plays.

[Lupz27]

It seems Gase’s I’m always right, and everyone else including my players are always wrong type of attitude on top of his complicated offense is really off putting to a lot of the players, and I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them feel the way Ty Montgomery felt, football isn’t fun it’s only work this sucks, and it shows in their play.

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

So the issue I see with the line of thinking is that if he's not a good fit here, and he wasn't a good fit with Tannenhill, then what we are saying is that he is only good with a HOF, drop back passer which isnt easy to find, especially in 2020.

I always balked at the notion that "Rex just needs good corners and his defense will be elite".  Thats not what the case was.  Rex need ELITE players to make his defense work because he constantly sent a ton of pressure.  The guy had 3 HOF players in Reed, Suggs and Ray Lewis in Baltimore.  He then not only had a HOF in Revis but brought in Cro as well.  Shouldn't a good DC be able to run a system when he doesnt have elite talent?  

IMO when you look at the good coordinators, they dont even have a system.  Sean Payton has changed his philosophy as Brees has gotten older and can't throw as deep.  The Pats dont even have a true system, they adapted to who they had on their offense and who they were playing.  

If Gase wants to be a "good coach" he should have used the entire offseason to study a team like the Titans who used zone concepts along with........PLAY ACTION, to put their athletic QB in position to succeed.  Keep the terminology the same, but you can take other teams schemes and tweak your own to put your personnel in the best position to succeed.  

i think the term system is the problem, NFL coordinators very much have systems but its not like a cut and dry this is what i run adapt to it.  You dont get to be in the nfl by being so rigid.  I think the more appropriate term would be philosophy.  This is more how they structure their offense around the talent but basing it off their belief on how an offense should run and how it should attack a defense.  People would be surprised to find out when you put the tape on there isnt much of a difference route combo wise between what Payton does in NO and what Gase is doing here.  The difference is in their philosophy, and of course the flow of play calling.  I am most critical of Gase on his feel or lack there of for play calling.  That is something Reid, Shanahan, Mcvay, Payton, and even Kingsbury have a great feel for. 

[BettyBoop]

16 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Whoa whoa whoa

You left out one whoa.  And the most important one!

[PepPep]

16 hours ago, CSNY said:

Not a Gase fan and I believe he is not a good HC but have to give him this season. If there is tangible proof that team is going in the right direction and is at the very least is competitive then he gets to come back but will be on a very very short leash the following year. Or maybe use Gases stubbornness to JD’s advantage JD tells Gase to fire his OC this year and if Gase is that stubborn maybe he would quit and problem is solved. Unlikely scenario but one can dream 

You don't HAVE to give him the whole season. If the sh**torm of awfulness on offense continues and Jets continue losing games Gase NEEDS to get canned. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. He's the coach and he needs to be accountable. Another reason for firing him before the season is over is if he straight up loses the locker room, which is a very likely scenario. 

[jgb]

16 hours ago, static14 said:

I watched every terrible minute of it. I’m not one to normally play grammar police, but you could drive a tank through the missing chunks in most of those sentences. 

I don’t always play grammar police but when I do...

16 hours ago, freestater said:

Nah, just took @SouthernJet this long to figure out how to double click. Gotta give them boomers a minute. 

Even Don Maynard chose a new team to root for.

15 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I'm not even trying to sh*t on the OP or defend Gase so no one take it this way.  I just want someone to make me a coherent arguement on why Gase is a terrible coach and give me detailed Xs and Os examples of how his offense is "pop warner" and "unimaginative". 

Is everyone accessing the all 22 footage and deciphering the plays based off of the coverage and defensive fronts?  Did you chart all the plays from the game and look at the passes and runs and feel they were so easy any coach could have drawn them up, or you drawn them up yourself?  If so then explain to me what the solution is in coherent football terms.  Let's have an X and O discussion about football and why a coach is bad rather than just go off of watching the game on cable where we only see 1 wr running a route and the line blocking and judge everything off the end result. 

Again, I am not saying the OP is wrong, I am not even defending Gase.  The argument of "unimaginative" and "pop warner" with no actual backing just is silly to me.  How would anyone know?  

Apologies if you are either:  an offensive coordinator,  coach now or have coached in the past, watch the all 22 and chart all the plays, or just are a football lifer who can intelligently talk about Xs and Os.  

Are you gatekeeping frustration?

[Chrebetfan80]

29 minutes ago, jgb said:

I don’t always play grammar police but when I do...

Even Don Maynard chose a new team to root for.

Are you gatekeeping frustration?

haha naaa just tired of the same tired old arguments that go no where and lead to fans just getting up in arms about what in my opinion are the wrong points. 

[jgb]

15 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

haha naaa just tired of the same tired old arguments that go no where and lead to fans just getting up in arms about what in my opinion are the wrong points. 

Welcome to the Internet 

[BCJet]

4 hours ago, Mackman55 said:

Good post! How about a quick slant? How about a "jet sweep". How about an RPO? They did nothing to keep the defense off balance or guessing.

Here are the actual stats from Sunday - not an opinion the facts. 

The jets used motion on 2% of their offensive plays Sunday. That was the 28th least amount in the entire league. 

All 12 of the teams who used motion the most.......Won their games. 
 

[munchmemory]

When I have these frequently recurring thoughts about the abysmal nature of our team and/or coaching staff, I try to imagine Kay Adams still  warm just out of the shower, smelling so delightful, toweling herself off before she starts her day.

[BornJetsFan1983]

5 hours ago, BCJet said:

So the issue I see with the line of thinking is that if he's not a good fit here, and he wasn't a good fit with Tannenhill, then what we are saying is that he is only good with a HOF, drop back passer which isnt easy to find, especially in 2020.

I always balked at the notion that "Rex just needs good corners and his defense will be elite".  Thats not what the case was.  Rex need ELITE players to make his defense work because he constantly sent a ton of pressure.  The guy had 3 HOF players in Reed, Suggs and Ray Lewis in Baltimore.  He then not only had a HOF in Revis but brought in Cro as well.  Shouldn't a good DC be able to run a system when he doesnt have elite talent?  

IMO when you look at the good coordinators, they dont even have a system.  Sean Payton has changed his philosophy as Brees has gotten older and can't throw as deep.  The Pats dont even have a true system, they adapted to who they had on their offense and who they were playing.  

If Gase wants to be a "good coach" he should have used the entire offseason to study a team like the Titans who used zone concepts along with........PLAY ACTION, to put their athletic QB in position to succeed.  Keep the terminology the same, but you can take other teams schemes and tweak your own to put your personnel in the best position to succeed.  

Bart Scott and others were not elite. Look at our D to our Off, nothing was elite. He got more out of that rag tab group that anyone possible could. Look Im all for saying Gase sucks and not a leader and that we need a leader but dont come out here wiht your revisionist history talking about how Rex didnt perform. he put us at the top with a average team. Then after a few years we eventually got worse, but at the same time I would argue in context - the off was so bad the no def could have done much better. I mean they were always very very tough. 

Even today our Def under Greg Williams plays great but 60 minutes is a long time to play def wiht our any help. 

The problem is the off, the prob is gase. Its not complicated.

[jgb]

Since Herm, the wheel of excuses has spun round and round. Everyone in the Jets organization (FO, coaches, players) point to the guy to their left to blame. Problem is they are sitting in a circle...

[Philc1]

Fire Gase, make the playoffs 

 

it’s quite simple

[Biggs]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Since Herm the wheel of excuses have spun round and round. The Jets as an organization are just everyone pointing to the guy to their left to blame. Problem is they are sitting in a circle that has no beginning or end.

I don't hear the excuses coming out of the organization.  I hear a frustrated fan base wanting a pound of flesh. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I don't hear the excuses coming out of the organization.  I hear a frustrated fan base wanting a pound of flesh. 

The most important quality of 4 of the last 5 Jets HCs has been A+ bus-tossing skill. Mangini didn't play that game. And he lasted the shortest. This is the culture that Woody manifests.

[Patriot Killa]

5 hours ago, jacarter220 said:

Say what you want about Sean McDermott, but he is a leader of men. His players would take a bullet for him. 

There's so much more to being a head coach in the NFL than X's and O's. Actually, X's and O's have very little to do with being a great head coach.  How you lead, how you manage people and personalities matters. Culture matters. It sounds corny as hell, but just look what McDermott has done in Buffalo. It works.

Until the Jets figure that out, they will continue the HC fire and hire cycle and be stuck in mediocrity.

Thanks

[Patriot Killa]

5 hours ago, jacarter220 said:

Say what you want about Sean McDermott, but he is a leader of men. His players would take a bullet for him. 

There's so much more to being a head coach in the NFL than X's and O's. Actually, X's and O's have very little to do with being a great head coach.  How you lead, how you manage people and personalities matters. Culture matters. It sounds corny as hell, but just look what McDermott has done in Buffalo. It works.

Until the Jets figure that out, they will continue the HC fire and hire cycle and be stuck in mediocrity.

Thanks

[CSNY]

4 hours ago, PepPep said:

You don't HAVE to give him the whole season. If the sh**torm of awfulness on offense continues and Jets continue losing games Gase NEEDS to get canned. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. He's the coach and he needs to be accountable. Another reason for firing him before the season is over is if he straight up loses the locker room, which is a very likely scenario. 

Pep. You are correct that he doesn’t HAVE to get the entire season    as you stated he loses the locker room he is definitely toast but as we all know there are so many new faces on the o line that it takes time for them to become a cohesive unit( I figure you should see improvement after 6-8 games ) If and when they start to play better the offense might and I emphasize might start to look better. That and have to see if he can utilize Mims in some fashion even though he has missed a lot of time due to injury if that makes the offense better. It is time for him to step up his game start taking responsibility for the putrid offensive production he oversees and start earning his so called OFFENSIVE GURU STATUS if not he can start packing as he then deserves to get the boot as they are not even competitive Offensively