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GreekJet

Draft Capital invested in QB position since 2009

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2009-1st and 2nd round pick (Sanchez)

2011- 7th round pick (McElroy)

2012-4th round pick (Tebow)

2013-2nd round pick (Geno)

2014-7th round pick (Boyd)

2016-2nd round pick (Hackenberg)

2018-1st and (2) 2nd round picks (Darnold)

2019-2nd round pick (Darnold)

2020-4th round pick (Morgan)


And you want to know why this roster is in terrible shape? Last five years alone the Jets have spent the 6th overall pick, (4) seconds, and a fourth on Sam Darnold, Christian Hackenberg, and James Morgan. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Every time I look at darnold I see Quenton Nelson and 3 2nd Rd picks

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

If Mac doesn’t make that trade the Jets probably land Rosen instead of Nelson. He also probably flushes 2/3 2nd round picks down the toilet. 

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9 minutes ago, GreekJet said:

If Mac doesn’t make that trade the Jets probably land Rosen instead of Nelson. He also probably flushes 2/3 2nd round picks down the toilet. 

Allen was higher on every board over Rosen

Nelson was the "chalk pick" at 6 and if it's one thing you can count on from Mac it's the chalk pick in the top 10 of the draft

Leo, Adams, QW, he never reached for need or did anything brave

he always sat there and let the draft come to him - except for Darnold 

rosen or even allen at 6 would have been slightly brave by mac standards 

 

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17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Allen was higher on every board over Rosen

Nelson was the "chalk pick" at 6 and if it's one thing you can count on from Mac it's the chalk pick in the top 10 of the draft

Leo, Adams, QW, he never reached for need or did anything brave

he always sat there and let the draft come to him - except for Darnold 

rosen or even allen at 6 would have been slightly brave by mac standards 

 

Pretty much no one had Allen over Rosen.  For 3 seasons Rosen was right behind Darnold as the top QB prospect.  Nelson wasn't a chalk pick over any of the QBs.  Hes wasn't a cant miss, cant pass up OL.  

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45 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Pretty much no one had Allen over Rosen.  For 3 seasons Rosen was right behind Darnold as the top QB prospect.  Nelson wasn't a chalk pick over any of the QBs.  Hes wasn't a cant miss, cant pass up OL.  

Um... plenty of people had Allen over Rosen.  Plenty had him over Darnold too.  Don't you remember all the chatter about how stupid people were to have him so high despite his lack of accuracy? 

Your take on Nelson shows literally no recollection of the draft reports.  They are littered with phrases like an All-Pro right out of the gate. and making his mark on the game for the next 10-12 years as one of the best in the league.  The only thing keeping him down was being an interior lineman and there was talk that teams would consider moving him outside.  He was as can't miss a prospect as you will ever find.  Nobody ever expected him to drop outside the top 10 and most had him top 5.  People did not have all the QBs going that high.

Interesting thing for me to remember is that a bunch of us were thinking Scot McCloughan was the kind of personnel guy we would want here.  I am pretty sure that he is the one that sold the Browns on Mayfield.

 

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29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Nelson wasn't a chalk pick over any of the QBs.  Hes wasn't a cant miss, cant pass up OL.  

That's not how I remember it

Quenton Nelson is the greatest OL prospect most of us have ever seen 

unless you were around for the Orlando Pace era 

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Um... plenty of people had Allen over Rosen.  Plenty had him over Darnold too.  Don't you remember all the chatter about how stupid people were to have him so high despite his lack of accuracy? 

Your take on Nelson shows literally no recollection of the draft reports.  They are littered with phrases like an All-Pro right out of the gate. and making his mark on the game for the next 10-12 years as one of the best in the league.  The only think keeping him down was being an interior lineman and there was talk that teams would consider moving him outside.  He was as can't miss a prospect as you will ever find.  Nobody ever expected him to drop outside the top 10 and most had him top 5.  People did not have all the QBs going that high.

Interesting thing for me to remember is that a bunch of us were thinking Scot McCloughan was the kind of personnel guy we would want here.  I am pretty sure that he is the one that sold the Browns on Mayfield.

 

It was Darnold, Rosen and Allen were the top 3 for almost 3 years.  It pretty much stayed that way right up to the draft.  

Nelson is a G, Bit has said you dont draft Gs int he top ten.  

 

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Quenton Nelson is the greatest OL prospect most of us have ever seen 

You went way too far here

Walter Football had this Player Comparison: Logan Mankins. 

Bleacher Report: 

NEGATIVES

—Positional value may drive Nelson down the board further than his ranking.

—There are few negatives, but one is limited athleticism.

Not saying he wasn't good or highly thought of but he wasn't a off the charts prospect if Im remembering correctly.  And as it turns out hes one of those prospects who actually develops and is better than advertised.

And as you have said, hes a G, you have said you dont use draft capital on Gs.  

And yes I was around for Pace, Ogden etc

 

 

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Um... plenty of people had Allen over Rosen.  Plenty had him over Darnold too.  Don't you remember all the chatter about how stupid people were to have him so high despite his lack of accuracy? 

Your take on Nelson shows literally no recollection of the draft reports.  They are littered with phrases like an All-Pro right out of the gate. and making his mark on the game for the next 10-12 years as one of the best in the league.  The only thing keeping him down was being an interior lineman and there was talk that teams would consider moving him outside.  He was as can't miss a prospect as you will ever find.  Nobody ever expected him to drop outside the top 10 and most had him top 5.  People did not have all the QBs going that high.

Interesting thing for me to remember is that a bunch of us were thinking Scot McCloughan was the kind of personnel guy we would want here.  I am pretty sure that he is the one that sold the Browns on Mayfield.

 

Hugh ? What Kool Aide are you sipping? @Jet Nut is absolutely right .Outside of me and a very few others here, NOBODY had Allen over Darnold and very few had him over Rosen. Darnold and Rosen were 1/2 right up to the draft with Baker a  3rd based on his last year at OU. . Let's not try to rewrite history. 

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15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You went way too far here

Walter Football had this Player Comparison: Logan Mankins. 

Bleacher Report: 

NEGATIVES

—Positional value may drive Nelson down the board further than his ranking.

—There are few negatives, but one is limited athleticism.

Not saying he wasn't good or highly thought of but he wasn't a off the charts prospect if Im remembering correctly.  And as it turns out hes one of those prospects who actually develops and is better than advertised.

And as you have said, hes a G, you have said you dont use draft capital on Gs.  

And yes I was around for Pace, Ogden etc

 

 

It said better than Logan Mankins.  Why don't you quote the thing? 

Quote

Some team sources think that Nelson could be the best guard in the NFL early in his pro career and could be better than former Patriots All-Pro Logan Mankins. Some teams have told me they have higher grades on Nelson than they did on Mankins, David DeCastro and Brandon Scherff.

 

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Every time I look at darnold I see Quenton Nelson and 3 2nd Rd picks

Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Well, because we are the Jets, this reduces to just Nelson

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Who cares? And if need be you invest more till you have the guy. I still believe in Sam but he does need to step up. QB is literally and in the literal meaning of literally 5 times more valuable than any other position

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Just now, johnnysd said:

Who cares? And if need be you invest more till you have the guy. I still believe in Sam but he does need to step up. QB is literally and in the literal meaning of literally 5 times more valuable than any other position

 Parks And Recreation GIF

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This is really not a lot. The problem is that once they have any resources at all tied up in any quarterback they're committed to him until his arm falls off or he faceplants into a butt and now they have some serious capital tied up in a real specimen.

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9 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Hugh ? What Kool Aide are you sipping? @Jet Nut is absolutely right .Outside of me and a very few others here, NOBODY had Allen over Darnold and very few had him over Rosen. Darnold and Rosen were 1/2 right up to the draft with Baker a  3rd based on his last year at OU. . Let's not try to rewrite history. 

Did you guys completely lose your memories?  Jet Nut is actually quoting sources that, until rumors about who the Browns would actually draft came out, had Allen #1 overall.  Now everybody had Rosen ahead?  NOBODY liked Rosen best.  Allen is a boom/bust prospect, there were always going to be those that don't like him.  

I don't even understand the point of this.  Allen was quite often expected to go #1 overall.  Are you guys trying to say that Maccagnan would have been crazy to draft him over Rosen?  Is a GM supposed to be that concerned about Sports Illustrated rankings? 

Oh, and my ******* name is not Hugh!

 

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Pretty much no one had Allen over Rosen.  For 3 seasons Rosen was right behind Darnold as the top QB prospect.

This I agree with.  Maybe memories are short around here but by most accounts Rosen was a polished and almost Pro-ready QB prospect who had a very accurate arm and was considered very smart.  Not as physically gifted as any of the other 4 that year (Lamar, Allen, Darnold, Baker) but he was "Pennington like."  If I remember right the major knocks on Rosen were his surly attitude and a fear that because he was so smart, both his parents were doctors/surgeons (one of his parents served on an Obama commission) he might leave football because of the concussion and injury risks, possibly not playing past his first contract.

Quote

Nelson wasn't a chalk pick over any of the QBs.  Hes wasn't a cant miss, cant pass up OL.  

This I disagree with.  Quenton Nelson was considered, ignoring his position, the best player in the entire Draft.  Very easy to scout and difficult to find many things he had to work on.  Plug and play OG.  You draft him and size him for a gold jacket 5 minutes later.  If it wasn't Darnold then Quenton Nelson probably would have been Macc's pick....possibly Bradley Chubb.  Nelson was taken before 3 other QBs went off the board (Allen, Rosen, Lamar).  He looked like a sure thing....and he was.  He not only made the Pro Bowl but was an All-Pro as a rookie....which is almost unheard of.  He only "fell" to #6 because he plays one of the least valued positions on the entire football field.

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10 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Well, because we are the Jets, this reduces to just Nelson

still. how much better would this team be with Bridgewater at QB, Nelson at LG and somehow Becton at LT next to him

i know we're hoping through different timelines here quantum leap style but they invested so much into Sam, he should be saving everyone's bacon, including incompetent Adam Gase. 

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15 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Who cares? And if need be you invest more till you have the guy. I still believe in Sam but he does need to step up. QB is literally and in the literal meaning of literally 5 times more valuable than any other position

Hence why I can't understand how so many people hated the James Morgan pick.  

Keep taking QB's until you know you have one.  And even when you have one, keep taking QB's every once in a while anyways, in the middle rounds.

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Hence why I can't understand how so many people hated the James Morgan pick.  

Keep taking QB's until you know you have one.  And even when you have one, keep taking QB's every once in a while anyways, in the middle rounds.

Exactly this. I've heard multiple GMs say the same in interviews.

I think we all hope that the buck still stops with Sam (or in this case, Morgan).

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2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Allen was higher on every board over Rosen

Nelson was the "chalk pick" at 6 and if it's one thing you can count on from Mac it's the chalk pick in the top 10 of the draft

Leo, Adams, QW, he never reached for need or did anything brave

he always sat there and let the draft come to him - except for Darnold 

rosen or even allen at 6 would have been slightly brave by mac standards 

 

At least Maccagnan knows himself, he knows he is stupid which is why every move in the first round was to avoid criticism and protect his job. The only person in the world not knowing that also, pretty much just by looking at him, was someone with maybe less intelligence...Woody Johnson.

Then after pretending that Hackenberg would be the answer the guy drafts a f...ing Safety when QB is still a screaming need, nice to draft a Safety like Adams when you are 1 player away, problem is when Maccagnan did it, the Jets had NO players, pretty similar to today.  Could have had Mahomes or Watson and saved all that draft Capital he had to use because now in the following year the Idiot’s back was totally against the wall.  Draft a QB or go home for good, no more masquerading as a GM anymore.  So he drafted the QB.

Now the irony is that after finally drafting what could have been a Franchise QB since he showed some serious skills although not consistently.....he’s about to be ruined playing on the worst roster in the NFL.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You went way too far here

Walter Football had this Player Comparison: Logan Mankins. 

Bleacher Report: 

NEGATIVES

—Positional value may drive Nelson down the board further than his ranking.

—There are few negatives, but one is limited athleticism.

Not saying he wasn't good or highly thought of but he wasn't a off the charts prospect if Im remembering correctly.  And as it turns out hes one of those prospects who actually develops and is better than advertised.

And as you have said, hes a G, you have said you dont use draft capital on Gs.  

And yes I was around for Pace, Ogden etc

 

 

You are serious? 

From the Bleacher Report analysis you quoted: 

Quote

 Nelson grades as the third-best player in the class and ranks as the safest pick. He has the traits to be an All-Pro guard.

 

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3 hours ago, GreekJet said:

2009-1st and 2nd round pick (Sanchez)

2011- 7th round pick (McElroy)

2012-4th round pick (Tebow)

2013-2nd round pick (Geno)

2014-7th round pick (Boyd)

2016-2nd round pick (Hackenberg)

2018-1st and (2) 2nd round picks (Darnold)

2019-2nd round pick (Darnold)

2020-4th round pick (Morgan)


And you want to know why this roster is in terrible shape? Last five years alone the Jets have spent the 6th overall pick, (4) seconds, and a fourth on Sam Darnold, Christian Hackenberg, and James Morgan. 

It's funny. I wouldn't have picked a single one of those guys.  Not one.

Not to say every QB I wanted at that drafts has been a rocket success, they haven't by any stretch, but man.....what a trashheap of wasted picks (Darnold and Morgan still TBD, of course).

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28 minutes ago, bitonti said:

still. how much better would this team be with Bridgewater at QB, Nelson at LG and somehow Becton at LT next to him

i know we're hoping through different timelines here quantum leap style but they invested so much into Sam, he should be saving everyone's bacon, including incompetent Adam Gase. 

Yeah, it's hard to say. I think Bridgewater is a tad bit overrated on here - I think he's solid but I just think he's a bit limited, physically. I'm not sure if we would have had an appreciably better record last year with Bridgewater and Nelson - maybe we are 8-8? 

Yeah, and then, as you point out, with the quantum leap in timelines/universes, who knows about anything else. 

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25 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

 

Now the irony is that after finally drafting what could have been a Franchise QB since he showed some serious skills although not consistently.....he’s about to be ruined playing on the worst roster in the NFL.

we were in total agreement until the end

everyone assumes Darnold would be a franchise QB elsewhere

but he's not that gifted physically, he doesn't have sound fundamentals

it's possible he just wasn't that good of a prospect after all 

 

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41 minutes ago, bitonti said:

i know we're hoping through different timelines here quantum leap style but they invested so much into Sam, he should be saving everyone's bacon, including incompetent Adam Gase. 

I think you nailed the issue, right here. 

I have posted this a few times already, but I think it bears repeating - Sam probably isn't ever going to be a guy who is good enough to "save" the rest of the team. He's not Mahomes, he's not Wilson, etc. I think he has enough talent to win with, but I think he's a guy who needs a really good roster around him. So, I think the problem with that trade is, when you give up that sort of draft capital to move up three spots, you are hoping for a true franchise-changer and we probably didn't get that. 

If he fails here, I have little doubt that he will get another opportunity down the road with a better franchise (and much better roster) as a backup and play well when given the chance (Another Tannehill scenario). I'm equally confident that he's never going to be an MVP candidate. 

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11 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I think he's solid but I just think he's a bit limited, physically. 

if that's the case they should have drafted Allen or Jackson someone with rare physical attributes 

Teddy is limited, yes. but i'm not sure Darnold is any less limited 

 

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Just now, slimjasi said:

I think you nailed the issue, right here. 

I have posted this a few times already, but I think it bears repeating - Sam probably isn't ever going to be a guy who is good enough to "save" the rest of the team. He's not Mahomes, he's not Wilson, etc. I think he has enough talent to win with, but I think he's a guy who needs a really good roster around him. So, I think the problem with that trade is, when you give up that sort of draft capital to move up three spots, you are hoping for a true franchise-changer and we probably didn't get that. 

If he fails here, I have little doubt that he will get another opportunity down the road with a better franchise (and much better roster) as a backup and play well when given the chance (Another Tannehill scenario). I'm equally confident that he's never going to be an MVP candidate. 

Tannehill played WR in college he ran a 4.6 from Texas A&M

Sam doesn't have any special physical gifts

we do agree however, in 5 years, Sam might be Rich Gannon 

the problem is the Jets have to pay him 20 million dollars for year 5 and 100 mil for an extensio 

the guy isn't playing like he's worth 2 million let alone 20 or 100 

 

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

we do agree however, in 5 years, Sam might be Rich Gannon 

 

I can feel the pain from this happening, already. 

And it will be with a team most of us hate.  

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1 hour ago, Thai Jet said:

Hugh ? What Kool Aide are you sipping? @Jet Nut is absolutely right .Outside of me and a very few others here, NOBODY had Allen over Darnold and very few had him over Rosen. Darnold and Rosen were 1/2 right up to the draft with Baker a  3rd based on his last year at OU. . Let's not try to rewrite history. 

Exactly.  Allen was all about his arm strength being a selling point.  Came with the caveat of being a shotgun arm but he had the best arm f the group.  But as said, it was a three legged race for 3 years and the only change was how distant 3rd place was.

It kind of like all the so called fans who wanted Mahomes going into the draft

 

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26 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Tannehill played WR in college he ran a 4.6 from Texas A&M

Sam doesn't have any special physical gifts

we do agree however, in 5 years, Sam might be Rich Gannon 

the problem is the Jets have to pay him 20 million dollars for year 5 and 100 mil for an extensio 

the guy isn't playing like he's worth 2 million let alone 20 or 100 

 

Sam has prototypical hight at just under 6' 4"..  He has an arm that puts him in the top 15%.  Sam can make any throw.  Sam can throw on the run.  

Her was the top QB prospect for a reason.  If you dont understand the position, just stop.  

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4 hours ago, GreekJet said:

2009-1st and 2nd round pick (Sanchez)

2011- 7th round pick (McElroy)

2012-4th round pick (Tebow)

2013-2nd round pick (Geno)

2014-7th round pick (Boyd)

2016-2nd round pick (Hackenberg)

2018-1st and (2) 2nd round picks (Darnold)

2019-2nd round pick (Darnold)

2020-4th round pick (Morgan)


And you want to know why this roster is in terrible shape? Last five years alone the Jets have spent the 6th overall pick, (4) seconds, and a fourth on Sam Darnold, Christian Hackenberg, and James Morgan. 

 

 

what have you got against morgan?  just where did minshew comes from?  as for darnold, it's still only one game and there's a lot to play.  he'll turn this around.

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