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Choose one to keep. Choose one to get rid off.


jetstream23

Choose Wisely  

64 members have voted

  1. 1. You can only KEEP ONE. Who do you choose?

    • Head Coach Adam Gase
      5
    • QB Sam Darnold
      59
  2. 2. You can only KEEP ONE. Who do you choose?

    • GM Joe Douglas
      52
    • HC Adam Gase
      2
    • QB Sam Darnold
      10
  3. 3. You can only get RID OF ONE. Who do you choose?

    • Ownership - Woody & Christopher Johnson
      37
    • GM Joe Douglas
      3
    • HC Adam Gase
      23
    • QB Sam Darnold
      1
  4. 4. You must KEEP ONE for this season and next (2020 and 2021). What do you choose?

    • Keep the current offensive skill players (ex. Perriman, Herndon, Bell, Crowder, Mims, etc.) - Change the HC
      46
    • Keep Head Coach Adam Gase - Upgrade most of the offensive skill players
      18
  5. 5. You can have and keep one player healthy for the rest of season who will play all remaining games. Who do you choose?

    • Breshad Perriman
      1
    • Chris Herndon
      12
    • Le'Veon Bell
      4
    • Denzel Mims
      39
    • La'Mical Perine
      8
  6. 6. You can bring one rookie back from IR / injury right now and have him play all remaining games. Who do you want to see?

    • WR Denzel Mims
      57
    • CB Bryce Hall
      1
    • DE Jabari Zuniga
      4
    • OL Cameron Clark
      2


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  1.  It makes no sense to get rid of Darnold before the end of the 2021 season, regardless of how poorly he performs.  So Darnold over Gase for sure. 
  2.  Douglas.  Duh.  This should  be 100 % of the vote.
  3.  Ownership.  Duh.  This should also be 100 %.
  4.  Toughest question of the 6, as I do think someone like Greg Roman could get a lot out of the current offensive talent as it stands.  But we do absolutely HAVE to upgrade the talent, so I chose talent over replacing Gase.  Perriman is here on a 1-year deal for a reason.  
  5.  Mims.  Even if he doesn't contribute a ton this year, we need to get him as many onfield reps as possible.  I want him ready to be a true WR1 in 2021.
  6.  Also Mims.  See # 5.  We can live without seeing the others.  Especially Hall.  This was always going to be a redshirt year for him, for the most part. 
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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:
  1.  It makes no sense to get rid of Darnold before the end of the 2021 season, regardless of how poorly he performs.  So Darnold over Gase for sure.  Yes, that's how I voted.
  2.  Douglas.  Duh.  This should  be 100 % of the vote. Yes, that's how I voted.
  3.  Ownership.  Duh.  This should also be 100 %. Yes, that's how I voted.
  4.  Toughest question of the 6.  We absolutely HAVE to upgrade the talent, so I chose talent over Gase.  Perriman is here on a 1-year deal for a reason.  Yes, that's how I voted.
  5.  Mims.  Even if he doesn't contribute a ton this year, we need to get him as many onfield reps as possible.  I want him ready to be a true WR1 in 2021.  Went with Perine.  Need to know if we have Bell's replacement.
  6.  Also Mims.  See # 5.  We can live without seeing the others.  Especially Hall.  This was always going to be a redshirt year for him, for the most part.  I want to see Zuniga over 15 games.  Pass rush more important than WR2 and want to see if Joe D assessed this guy correctly.

In agreement on the key things here.

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3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

In agreement on the key things here.

Perine is more of a RB2 in the nice, safe, Bilal Powell mold, so I don't think we need to know if he's a Bell replacement.  The 2021 RB1 might not be on the roster yet regardless.  RB is also a plug-n-play position; WR isn't. 

Furthermore, Bell is gone after this season regardless due to financials.  It's sort of a "ready or not" situation.

I can certainly see your points on Zuniga.  We haven't had a pass rusher since 2005.  I'd like to know if we have one too.  Except I still have to go with Mims, who has the billing of a WR1, not a WR2.  At least to me.  Seeing if Mims is capable of being a WR1 before the end of the season is more important, right now, than seeing what Zuniga can do.  

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Wow.  2 people voted Darnold over Douglas already.  You 2 are nuts. 

Darnold has 2 years left on his deal, including this one (3 if we exercise the option).  Douglas has 5.  He deserves the chance to choose his own QB.

Show thyselves, ungrateful curs! Is this poll public or am I just stupid? I'm pretty techno-stupid . . . but that's also a huge umbrella of mine that covers the whole spectrum of my daily life. "Why won't this paint jar cover twist off?" "It's rusted closed . . . ?" Heh.

The only time things should be anonymous is if people are reporting a crime. "Hello, it this the East Rutherford PD? It is? Good. The New Dump sucks!" "Name please?" "Victim Shield Law!" 

 

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I don't think the poll lets you vote unless you've answered all of the questions.  I'm unwilling to answer question #2.  Joe D and Sam are both pillars of this organization imo.  I'm unwilling to choose between them.

1) I keep Sam over Gase (obviously)

2) See above

3) I would choose to replace Gase over WJ/CJ because, with owners, maybe the devil you know is better than the one you don't.  As bad as the Johnsons are, things could be worse.

4) I chose to upgrade the skill positions and, regrettably, keep Gase.  Sam's development is more important than anything and we can't head into next season with the same crap.  Also, I've said before that I don't think Gase can elevate a bad team but we haven't seen yet if he can win with a good one.  

5 & 6) Mims.  Let's see what the guy is plus let's see how he and Sam mesh.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Wow.  2 people voted Darnold over Douglas already.  You 2 are nuts. 

Darnold has 2 years left on his deal, including this one (3 if we exercise the option).  Douglas has 5.  He deserves the chance to choose his own QB.

There's a bit of a hedge built in here with the timing.  You could posit that if someone believes in EITHER Douglas or Darnold then the Jets will be on the right track within the next two years.  Douglas has an option on Darnold with an ability to choose his own QB as soon as the 2021 Draft, but more likely in 2022.  The Jets would really only be in deep sh!t if BOTH Darnold and Douglas are in the bottom half of their peer groups.  And the likelihood of both of those being true is.... well, I don't want to get into probability & statistics here. :P

 

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5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't think the poll lets you vote unless you've answered all of the questions.  I'm unwilling to answer question #2.  Joe D and Sam are both pillars of this organization imo.  I'm unwilling to choose between them.

 

I'd ask you to vote anyway and think of it this way.  If you think both are keeps and pillars of the organization, who would be more difficult to replace?  Gun to your head, you can only keep one....  Would it be easier to find a very good/excellent GM or a very good/excellent QB?

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8 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

There's a bit of a hedge built in here with the timing.  You could posit that if someone believes in EITHER Douglas or Darnold then the Jets will be on the right track within the next two years.  Douglas has an option on Darnold with an ability to choose his own QB as soon as the 2021 Draft, but more likely in 2022.  The Jets would really only be in deep sh!t if BOTH Darnold and Douglas are in the bottom half of their peer groups.  And the likelihood of both of those being true is.... well, I don't want to get into probability & statistics here. :P

 

 

Well sure, but if the option is you can only keep one, the clear choice is Douglas.  It makes zero sense to want to get rid of the GM BEFORE Darnold given the information we have at hand.  The assumption there would be that Darnold is a true franchise QB but Douglas refuses to see it, which is just a silly take.

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I got to KEEP Sam Darnold twice, so maybe I'm only half-stupid today and someone else took up the slack. "Perhaps . . . YOU?!"  @jetstream23I was looking for Sir Ralph Richardson in 'Trilogy of Terror', but I couldn't find the clip, so I had to settle for a picture. : /  Anyone worth their horror flick salt would get that. Where's @Thor99?  I need horror flick back up. 

tales-from-the-crypt-1972-cryptkeeper-ralph-richardson.jpg

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Just now, jetstream23 said:

I'd ask you to vote anyway and think of it this way.  If you think both are keeps and pillars of the organization, who would be more difficult to replace?  Gun to your head, you can only keep one....  Would it be easier to find a very good/excellent GM or a very good/excellent QB?

It's such a difficult question.  A FQB is critical but a really good GM might be more critical. 

How easily can they each be replaced?  With 4 #1's in the next 2 drafts, we can probably get another potential FQB.  But that would destroy the draft capital we've built up.  Could we bring in another GM who has the conservative approach of JD and will hopefully draft well?  It would probably be difficult to find.  Otoh, it would be another thing we could use to try to incentivize a guy like Urban Meyer to come here ("you can have the Jon Gruden deal").

But there's a lot of assumptions built into the above paragraph.  Nothing is set in stone about either Sam or JD and either choice could be a critical mistake. 

I don't know if I can choose.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Well sure, but if the option is you can only keep one, the clear choice is Douglas.  It makes zero sense to want to get rid of the GM BEFORE Darnold given the information we have at hand.  The assumption there would be that Darnold is a true franchise QB but Douglas refuses to see it.  

If Douglas doesn't believe that Darnold is a true franchise QB by Week 12 or so this year (after having a front row seat to Sam for last season as well) then wouldn't we likely see James Morgan or Mike White under Center?  There would have to be some kind of accelerated evaluations going on prior to the 2021 Draft where the Jets have two 1st round picks.

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2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

If Douglas doesn't believe that Darnold is a true franchise QB by Week 12 or so this year (after having a front row seat to Sam for last season as well) then wouldn't we likely see James Morgan or Mike White under Center?  There would have to be some kind of accelerated evaluations going on prior to the 2021 Draft where the Jets have two 1st round picks.

 

Very possible.  In which case, based on the poll, at least 6 people would be calling for Douglas' head for having the audacity to bench him?  Makes no sense, lol.

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1- Keep Sam

2- Keep Joe D

3- Ownership. If I could tie both Johnsons to a pole at the end of a busy driving range I would. They're the constant denominator throughout these repeated rebuilds, they gotta go. 

4- Keep the skill players. This one is just a toss up but those players may be better in a system that's not as asinine as Gases

5- I went with Perine we need a good runner who fits into this zone blocking scheme

6- Mims. Sam needs all the help he can get

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33 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:
  1.  It makes no sense to get rid of Darnold before the end of the 2021 season, regardless of how poorly he performs.  So Darnold over Gase for sure. 
  2.  Douglas.  Duh.  This should  be 100 % of the vote.
  3.  Ownership.  Duh.  This should also be 100 %.
  4.  Toughest question of the 6, as I do think someone like Greg Roman could get a lot out of the current offensive talent as it stands.  But we do absolutely HAVE to upgrade the talent, so I chose talent over replacing Gase.  Perriman is here on a 1-year deal for a reason.  
  5.  Mims.  Even if he doesn't contribute a ton this year, we need to get him as many onfield reps as possible.  I want him ready to be a true WR1 in 2021.
  6.  Also Mims.  See # 5.  We can live without seeing the others.  Especially Hall.  This was always going to be a redshirt year for him, for the most part. 

On 3 I disagree. There is zero control over who the next owner will be. It could very well be Jim Dolan. But, we do know that JD will have a lot of input on who is hired as the next HC and I trust JD. So, HC is the correct answer. 

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1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

On 3 I disagree. There is zero control over who the next owner will be. It could very well be Jim Dolan. But, we do know that JD will have a lot of input on who is hired as the next HC and I trust JD. So, HC is the correct answer. 

I'd take Popeye the Sailor Man at this point. 

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6 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

On 3 I disagree. There is zero control over who the next owner will be. It could very well be Jim Dolan. But, we do know that JD will have a lot of input on who is hired as the next HC and I trust JD. So, HC is the correct answer. 

Not many owners in sports are worse than the Johnson's.  How many franchises in the Big 4 US Sports have missed the playoffs for 10+ straight seasons?  As of 2019 that list was just 7.  Out of 123 franchises.

Sure, it could be a Jim Dolan.  It could also be someone like Steve Cohen, Jed York, Peter Holt, or perhaps even someone like Mark Cuban.  These days the NFL usually does a pretty good job of guiding these franchises towards competent people when sales happen.  There's a good chance they'd steer the Jets towards a much better ownership group than the current one.  The league has a vested interest in that.  

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not many owners in sports are worse than the Johnson's.  How many franchises in the Big 4 US Sports have missed the playoffs for 10 straight seasons?

Sure, it could be a Jim Dolan.  It could also be Steve Cohen.  These days the NFL usually does a pretty good job of guiding these franchises towards competent people when sales happen.  

Yeah, like the Browns owner

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22 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Question 4 is straight up 50/50. Both need to be upgraded, but I chose to upgrade the offensive talent first. 

 

Gase getting destroyed in every question. 

This is like algebra and trying to solve for multiple unknowns using several equations.  If I had to choose the order in which to change things I think I'd go as follows....

1. Improve the Offensive skill players.  We started by upgrading the OLine which was smart and crucial.  The Jets need to get difference-makers instead of "hold the fort" guys at multiple offensive spots including WR, RB...and maybe even TE.

2. If the above changes and things don't get much better the decision becomes whether it's the Head Coach or the QB.  Hard to make that call now without seeing what happens (Is Darnold making bad throws, bad decisions, missing guys who Gase has successfully schemed open on routes?) or do we have a situation like Aaron Rodgers suddenly performing poorly in a stale system where his coach is using the same playbook from 2009?  My inclination based on seeing Gase offenses over multiple years (players getting better after leaving him, etc.) and Gase with several teams would be to change the HC and keep the QB.

3. If the Jets are still failing then we know they somehow pulled off the impossible...  They managed to have a bad coach, a bad QB, and a bad roster all at the same time and no matter what was done to any of the other two the 3rd piece wouldn't work.  At this point you have a GM who will head into a new season with a team completely of his own design having influenced a HC hire, replaced his QB and gotten his own roster.

4. Still bad?  The GM goes and Question #3 in the poll is the only one that really mattered. 

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So for #3 I'm one of the odd men out in wanting Gase gone over ownership. This is two fold for me.

Firstly, I don't expect anything from ownership, billionaires are going to be oblivious buffoons when it come to sports management ... The best kind of pro sports owner is the kind that realizes they have no place in the decision making aspects of running the team. I think we have a better chance of the Johnson's learning to take aback seat to JD than we do having Adam Gase change his stripes.

Secondly,  what I began to say about Gase. We are not going to see Gase change his style and suddenly learn to make in game adjustments and begin coaching to his players strengths rather than to a preposterous formula he has concocted which none of his personnel fit. I'm all for giving Gase this year but I really don't think this team will see success with him at the helm. He has no flexibility in his game plan or play calling from what I have seen.

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6 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Yeah, like the Browns owner

Stan Kroenke has done very well.  As have the Pegulas (Bills).  David Tepper (Panthers) seems very competent too.  The Rhule hire was perfect for that franchise.

The NFL will care a lot more about who owns the Jets than who owns the Browns or Jaguars.

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41 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't think the poll lets you vote unless you've answered all of the questions.  I'm unwilling to answer question #2.  Joe D and Sam are both pillars of this organization imo.  I'm unwilling to choose between them.

1) I keep Sam over Gase (obviously)

2) See above

3) I would choose to replace Gase over WJ/CJ because, with owners, maybe the devil you know is better than the one you don't.  As bad as the Johnsons are, things could be worse.

4) I chose to upgrade the skill positions and, regrettably, keep Gase.  Sam's development is more important than anything and we can't head into next season with the same crap.  Also, I've said before that I don't think Gase can elevate a bad team but we haven't seen yet if he can win with a good one.  

5 & 6) Mims.  Let's see what the guy is plus let's see how he and Sam mesh.

same for me.  although i did vote and did not like question 2.

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Stan Kroenke has done very well.  As have the Pegulas (Bills).  David Tepper (Panthers) seems very competent too.  The Rhule hire was perfect for that franchise.

The NFL will care a lot more about who owns the Jets than who owns the Browns or Jaguars.

The Jets have stunk forever. The NFL knows it will make boat loads of cash regardless of whether the Jets are competitive. They will approve a sale to the highest bidder to enhance their equity in their own teams. They will give a Rat's as as to whether the new owner is "competent". They will only have 2 considerations: 1) is this the highest bidder; and 2) will they rock the boat or play nice with the other owners.

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