Data point beat down - Greeny

[CTM]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Yeah, it’s bleak. IMO, he has three more games to turn the tide before the bottom falls out. 

Traitor.  Since when do you so easily buckle to the hordes. Maybe to regain your loyalty , Gase should make a weird painting showcasing his heroism in the face of poor roster, ravenous media and idiot fans. 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I have a suspicion that CJ is setting Gase up. By calling him a Brilliant Offensive Mind, CJ is parroting the theme that got Gase both of his HC jobs. And Gase has never pushed back on that theme. He never comes out and says things like "I'm just a football coach", "Everyone runs the same plays", etc...  Rather, he says sh*t like, "I watched the film, and wouldn't change even one of the offensive play calls", after the O looked like crap for 60 minutes (well, more like 20 minutes). He clearly is an arrogant A-hole who rose through the ranks too quickly.

So, when CJ calls him a Brilliant Offensive Mind, he sets the bar for what is "success" very high.  It is tantamount to a playoff or else mandate. CJ has essentially issued a Top Offense mandate. The longer the O looks bad, the more likely Gase will be relieved of his HC duties before the seasons end.

CJ is playing 3D chess. By making his brilliant offensive mind statement, he cajoled the press into making the case to fire Adam Gase. So, when CJ makes the drastic decision to fire a HC during a season, the press will be supportive of the decision. 

That’s a beautiful analysis and I wish it were true because it would mean one of the Jets owners has some smarts but I’m thinking it’s just another cu*t move by one of Jets high management who is deflecting blame from himself.

If he had an IQ 100+ Bowles would never have lasted that long and Maccagnan would not have been given a 5th Draft to flush.

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I like data.

No opinions, agendas or heuristics. 

Just data, or facts (if those still exist).

Okay but if you take away the 3games Darnold missed that has to account for about 20 punts and zero tds. Then understand that Darnold wasn’t 100% in his first few games back and that further builds up the disparity.  Also, greenie, since he’s a moron, never said what the league average is.

[TuscanyTile2]

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

3D chess is just regular chess.

More impressive than whatever we have been playing.

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Okay but if you take away the 3games Darnold missed that has to account for about 20 punts and zero tds. Then understand that Darnold wasn’t 100% in his first few games back and that further builds up the disparity.  Also, greenie, since he’s a moron, never said what the league average is.

Problem with this is that everybody points to the Cowboy game as one of the few positives.

[CTM]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I like data.

No opinions, agendas or heuristics. 

Just data, or facts (if those still exist).

Not saying anyone is wrong about Gase. My opinion is that he got Mac out so he gets this year before I turn on him.

But, this data is contingent on

1) Ignoring what he did in Denver with Peyton Manning, despite Peyton Manning being enough past his prime that Indy let him go

2) Ignoring that Bell took a year off and looks a step slow to many observers

3) Ignoring the offense here from soup to nuts is almost entirely devoid of talent thanks to Mac

4) Assumes that year 1 and year 2 Darnold wasn't just a bad QB, despite Qbase predicting him to be one and the fact that most QB's struggle in year 1 and 2, particularly short term college starters like Dahnald

5) Cherry picks the near useless Tannenhill QB rating stat over a single year for effect, while ignoring him being 10th in QBR and 11th in DYAR last year, both superior stats, on a team that didn't ask him to much.

Again, I'm not here to say Gase is an offensive genuis but I don't exactly find Greeny's case to be a slam dunk.

[Dunnie]

Not to belabor the issue, but how in the heck do you play 4D chess in a reality bound by 3D world?  That's just layered 3D chess.

To be brutally honest the Star trek version is 3D chess... Regular chess is 2D as it uses a 2d coordinate system. 

 

 

Going further... You could play 4D chess if you added a parameter that was not existing in the space of the playing board. For example if the pieces had innate properties to their space and shape that resulted in a characteristic that was used to determine a win that could be construed as 4D. As in a 4D array.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

[Y3k]

4 minutes ago, CTM said:

Not saying anyone is wrong about Gase. My opinion is that he got Mac out so he gets this year before I turn on him.

But, this data is contingent on

1) Ignoring what he did in Denver with Peyton Manning, despite Peyton Manning being enough past his prime that Indy let him go

2) Ignoring that Bell took a year off and looks a step slow to many observers

3) Ignoring the offense here from soup to nuts is almost entirely devoid of talent thanks to Mac

4) Assumes that year 1 and year 2 Darnold wasn't just a bad QB, despite Qbase predicting him to be one and the fact that most QB's struggle in year 1 and 2, particularly short term college starters like Dahnald

5) Cherry picks the near useless Tannenhill QB rating stat over a single year for effect, while ignoring him being 10th in QBR and 11th in DYAR last year, both superior stats, on a team that didn't ask him to much.

Again, I'm not here to say Gase is an offensive genuis but I don't exactly find Greeny's case to be a slam dunk.

You had me until #4 

Trevor Simien was a capable starter in the NFL and he was worse in this offense for a half than Luke Falk- who proceeded to look like the worst QB in NFL history even though he had a very accomplished college career and was deemed good enough to make an NFL roster. Without Darnold the offense literally could not pick up a first down. With Darnold they were able to put up 30 points 3 different times... 

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, Y3k said:

You had me until #4 

Trevor Simien was a capable starter in the NFL and he was worse in this offense for a half than Luke Falk- who proceeded to look like the worst QB in NFL history even though he had a very accomplished college career and was deemed good enough to make an NFL roster. Without Darnold the offense literally could not pick up a first down. With Darnold they were able to put up 30 points 3 different times... 

Whether you agree or not that Darnold was always going to be a bad QB in year 1 and 2, you can't deny that Greeny's analysis assumes that the Jets offense problems are on Gase and not Darnold.

[Y3k]

5 minutes ago, CTM said:

Whether you agree or not that Darnold was always going to be a bad QB in year 1 and 2, you can't deny that Greeny's analysis assumes that the Jets offense problems are on Gase and not Darnold.

I think he’s assuming that they are on Gase and not the lack of talent on the offense (outside of Darnold).

Greenys data is idiotic because he Doesn’t say what the leeg average ratio is for TD to Punts nor does he show the data only with Darnold at the helm. 

[Integrity28]

46 minutes ago, CTM said:

Well in that case I guess JD will have to go back to the drawing board

[Integrity28]

34 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Okay but if you take away the 3games Darnold missed that has to account for about 20 punts and zero tds. Then understand that Darnold wasn’t 100% in his first few games back and that further builds up the disparity.  Also, greenie, since he’s a moron, never said what the league average is.

First: cherry-picking data to create a more positive narrative.

Second: on almost every metric, Greeny tells us where we ranked vs the league. The average would be higher that 28th ranked, for example.

Always amazing that specific personality types find ways to dispute a hard read of facts. Or attack the person delivering them, which is also irrelevant. My dog could read these numbers off, doesn’t make them less credible.

[Integrity28]

29 minutes ago, CTM said:

Not saying anyone is wrong about Gase. My opinion is that he got Mac out so he gets this year before I turn on him.

But, this data is contingent on

1) Ignoring what he did in Denver with Peyton Manning, despite Peyton Manning being enough past his prime that Indy let him go

2) Ignoring that Bell took a year off and looks a step slow to many observers

3) Ignoring the offense here from soup to nuts is almost entirely devoid of talent thanks to Mac

4) Assumes that year 1 and year 2 Darnold wasn't just a bad QB, despite Qbase predicting him to be one and the fact that most QB's struggle in year 1 and 2, particularly short term college starters like Dahnald

5) Cherry picks the near useless Tannenhill QB rating stat over a single year for effect, while ignoring him being 10th in QBR and 11th in DYAR last year, both superior stats, on a team that didn't ask him to much.

Again, I'm not here to say Gase is an offensive genuis but I don't exactly find Greeny's case to be a slam dunk.

I’m not saying that Gase came into an ideal situation, but his job was to fix it. Not play victim to it. 

If you’re going to carry the reputation of ‘genius’ and bill yourself as ‘QB guru’, then you overcome this stuff enough to not be ranked bottom 3 every year. You also don’t have a track record of players being better without you.

[Larz]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

3D chess is just regular chess.

Hmmmmm

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

Points per drive in Adam Gase's career to date (OC/HC only):

• 2013 (DEN):  2.98 (# 1 in NFL)
• 2014 (DEN):  2.48 (# 4)
• 2015 (CHI):  1.93 (# 17)
• 2016 (MIA):  1.81 (# 21)
• 2017 (MIA):  1.42 (# 28)
• 2018 (MIA):  1.61 (# 28)  
• 2019 (NYJ):  1.29 (# 32)
• 2020 (NYJ):  1.55 (# 26)

Offensive guru.

[More Cowbell]

3 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I like data.

No opinions, agendas or heuristics. 

Just data, or facts (if those still exist).

[More Cowbell]

50 minutes ago, CTM said:

Not saying anyone is wrong about Gase. My opinion is that he got Mac out so he gets this year before I turn on him.

But, this data is contingent on

1) Ignoring what he did in Denver with Peyton Manning, despite Peyton Manning being enough past his prime that Indy let him go

2) Ignoring that Bell took a year off and looks a step slow to many observers

3) Ignoring the offense here from soup to nuts is almost entirely devoid of talent thanks to Mac

4) Assumes that year 1 and year 2 Darnold wasn't just a bad QB, despite Qbase predicting him to be one and the fact that most QB's struggle in year 1 and 2, particularly short term college starters like Dahnald

5) Cherry picks the near useless Tannenhill QB rating stat over a single year for effect, while ignoring him being 10th in QBR and 11th in DYAR last year, both superior stats, on a team that didn't ask him to much.

Again, I'm not here to say Gase is an offensive genuis but I don't exactly find Greeny's case to be a slam dunk.

IMO, if you like Gase because Mac is go e because of him, then time to move on. He has served his purpose. 

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

IMO, if you like Gase because Mac is go e because of him, then time to move on. He has served his purpose. 

That's why I like him and he gets atleast a half season of loyalty 

[More Cowbell]

13 minutes ago, CTM said:

That's why I like him and he gets atleast a half season of loyalty 

Honestly,  I am sick of the clown parade. If he is as bad as Greenberg said, andnI would say there is a good case for it, he can't  be out of here fast enough. The Browns were respectable  under Williams. Give him a try. 

[jeremy2020]

43 minutes ago, CTM said:

That's why I like him and he gets atleast a half season of loyalty 

We pass that a half season ago

[Sonny Werblin]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

To be brutally honest the Star trek version is 3D chess... Regular chess is 2D as it uses a 2d coordinate system. 

 

 

Going further... You could play 4D chess if you added a parameter that was not existing in the space of the playing board. For example if the pieces had innate properties to their space and shape that resulted in a characteristic that was used to determine a win that could be construed as 4D. As in a 4D array.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[Spoot-Face]

3 hours ago, Jet25 said:

This was before Gase was hired

Still, I don't think a rookie QB (especially one with Darnold's demeanor) would bad mouth any potential head coach. Again, I wouldn't expect anything else from Sam.

[Vader]

How many of the 33 TDs were defensive returns or specials returns 

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

First: cherry-picking data to create a more positive narrative.

Second: on almost every metric, Greeny tells us where we ranked vs the league. The average would be higher that 28th ranked, for example.

Always amazing that specific personality types find ways to dispute a hard read of facts. Or attack the person delivering them, which is also irrelevant. My dog could read these numbers off, doesn’t make them less credible.

I’ll bet your dog is more talented than greenie. If anything greenie is cherry picking the data. Without real comparisons it tough to see where the jets do stand and let’s not forget they didn’t have okay oline play until the second half of the season.

[JustInFudge]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Hence why Douglas used a pick on a Punter.  4D chess right there.

I want to laugh but ITS NOT FUNNY!!!!!!

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, JiF said:

I want to laugh but ITS NOT FUNNY!!!!!!

We can either laugh or cry, I'm afraid.  I prefer the former!

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We can either laugh or cry, I'm afraid.  I prefer the former!

[varjet]

4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I have a suspicion that CJ is setting Gase up. By calling him a Brilliant Offensive Mind, CJ is parroting the theme that got Gase both of his HC jobs. And Gase has never pushed back on that theme. He never comes out and says things like "I'm just a football coach", "Everyone runs the same plays", etc...  Rather, he says sh*t like, "I watched the film, and wouldn't change even one of the offensive play calls", after the O looked like crap for 60 minutes (well, more like 20 minutes). He clearly is an arrogant A-hole who rose through the ranks too quickly.

So, when CJ calls him a Brilliant Offensive Mind, he sets the bar for what is "success" very high.  It is tantamount to a playoff or else mandate. CJ has essentially issued a Top Offense mandate. The longer the O looks bad, the more likely Gase will be relieved of his HC duties before the seasons end.

CJ is playing 3D chess. By making his brilliant offensive mind statement, he cajoled the press into making the case to fire Adam Gase. So, when CJ makes the drastic decision to fire a HC during a season, the press will be supportive of the decision. 

There is no doubt that most of what CJ says is working the press angle.

As Bum Phillips said of Don Shula, he can his and beat yours, and yours and beat his. 

I don't think anyone thinks that of Gase.  He needs to go. 

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I have a suspicion that CJ is setting Gase up. By calling him a Brilliant Offensive Mind, CJ is parroting the theme that got Gase both of his HC jobs. And Gase has never pushed back on that theme. He never comes out and says things like "I'm just a football coach", "Everyone runs the same plays", etc...  Rather, he says sh*t like, "I watched the film, and wouldn't change even one of the offensive play calls", after the O looked like crap for 60 minutes (well, more like 20 minutes). He clearly is an arrogant A-hole who rose through the ranks too quickly.

So, when CJ calls him a Brilliant Offensive Mind, he sets the bar for what is "success" very high.  It is tantamount to a playoff or else mandate. CJ has essentially issued a Top Offense mandate. The longer the O looks bad, the more likely Gase will be relieved of his HC duties before the seasons end.

CJ is playing 3D chess. By making his brilliant offensive mind statement, he cajoled the press into making the case to fire Adam Gase. So, when CJ makes the drastic decision to fire a HC during a season, the press will be supportive of the decision. 

I could see this being the case but then again, like the case with Mac, why give him the offseason with Sam?  If he knew he sucked (which is easy to see and this data has been out there) then why let him continue to ruin this QB you claim is so great?   

This franchise redefines incompetence. 

 

[HawaiisOnlyJetsFan]

Come-on guys. It's really simple to see his genius, Gase is just trying to get his best player on the field (Mann).

[Xtina]

4 hours ago, Jet25 said:

Sam Darnold also wanted Gase to be his HC. Seems that people forgot about that

HE DID NOT! 

[Xtina]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Points per drive in Adam Gase's career to date (OC/HC only):

• 2013 (DEN):  2.98 (# 1 in NFL)
• 2014 (DEN):  2.48 (# 4)
• 2015 (CHI):  1.93 (# 17)
• 2016 (MIA):  1.81 (# 21)
• 2017 (MIA):  1.42 (# 28)
• 2018 (MIA):  1.61 (# 28)  
• 2019 (NYJ):  1.29 (# 32)
• 2020 (NYJ):  1.55 (# 26)

Offensive guru.

O.MF.G 

[Jet25]

23 minutes ago, Xtina said:

HE DID NOT! 

Yes he did. Darnold felt Adam Gase was the right candidate for the Jets two days before the Jets hired Gase as HC. They both FaceTime each other. This was already known but evidently many Jet fans haven't heard about this. 

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, rangerous said:

I’ll bet your dog is more talented than greenie. If anything greenie is cherry picking the data. Without real comparisons it tough to see where the jets do stand and let’s not forget they didn’t have okay oline play until the second half of the season.

Rank vs the league is comparative data, doofy.