The Joe Douglas Honeymoon

[Irish Jet]

The Anderson/Perriman deal was a complete debacle. Pay up and get the far better player. A proven player at that. 

That said his biggest call yet has been Becton and he’s looked outstanding. Reports from camp were positive and he’s been our best offensive player through two games. Can’t ask for much more.

He inherited a mess. The next two drafts will make or break him.

[TheMo]

29 minutes ago, Vader said:

Ok. You’re wrong. Thanks for playing ?

Actually your analysis is a bit off. You are looking at things from a relative stand point. To better articulate @Jetsfan80's point I'll make this more concrete. Your argument is Jamal gives us 2-3 more wins which could be true. What he (and I) are arguing is that if you go from 3-13 to at best 6-10 the Jets are better off with the picks. Either way it's not a good season. It's like adding paprika to spam and trying to convince you it's a gourmet dish. 

[jetstream23]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

And what's Darnold's culpability in all of this? I don't think it's possible without being completely disingenuous to blame JD for this but think Darnold is a mishandled but potential FQB.

Do both Joe Douglas and Sam Darnold have potential?  Yes.  Are they both in tough spots?  Absolutely.  Can we tell if either one is in the top or bottom half of their peer groups in the NFL (GMs, QBs)?  Maybe you can.  I don't think I can.  Both have had bright spots and also shown some glaring areas of concern.

In terms of culpability, Darnold is an 0-2 QB on what is likely the NFL's worst offense two years running.  On the field, he's the captain of the ship.  Regardless of whether that ship is rudderless, is taking on water and if the map he's been given by Gase has him heading in the wrong direction, he's still the captain.

I do know that for whatever reason everything Gase touches seems to turn to crap.  Players regress.  Players get injured.  It's taken me a little while to fully recognize just how bad and pervasive that is.  These are no longer anomalies. The Jets took the NFL's all-time leader in yards from scrimmage (Le'Veon Bell) and essentially stopped him in his tracks through a combination of bad coaching, bad blocking, bad supporting offensive players and potentially bad quarterbacking.

It's on Sam Darnold to work with what he has.  Fortunately, the OLine at least seems to be a little better.  I would submit that the offensive scheme, play-calling and lack of players to call plays for are contributing to the problems and that it's not all on Sam.

I'd also submit that a GM should know the injury tendencies of his team, the history of his training staff, and the propensity of his HC to somehow constantly be surrounded by injured players, and he should take that into account when building an organization and roster.  Joe should have taken fewer, not more risks on injured players.  He should have pulled forward just a little bit of the Cap $$ that have the Jets lined up for the most Cap space in the NFL next year so that his depth chart wasn't so reliant on inexperienced players.  At the same time, JD isn't the one pulling hamstrings out there.  That's not on him.  But drafting and signing guys with injury histories like Perriman, Jabari Zuniga, Bryce Hall, etc. are calculated risks that he took and he may have punched a few wrong buttons on that calculator.

 

 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Do both Joe Douglas and Sam Darnold have potential?  Yes.  Are they both in tough spots?  Absolutely.  Can we tell if either one is in the top or bottom half of their peer groups in the NFL (GMs, QBs)?  Maybe you can.  I don't think I can.  Both have had bright spots and also shown some glaring areas of concern.

In terms of culpability, Darnold is an 0-2 QB on what is likely the NFL's worst offense two years running.  On the field, he's the captain of the ship.  Regardless of whether that ship is rudderless, is taking on water and if the map he's been given by Gase has him heading in the wrong direction, he's still the captain.

I do know that for whatever reason everything Gase touches seems to turn to crap.  Players regress.  Players get injured.  It's taken me a little while to fully recognize just how bad and pervasive that is.  These are no longer anomalies. The Jets took the NFL's all-time leader in yards from scrimmage (Le'Veon Bell) and essentially stopped him in his tracks through a combination of bad coaching, bad blocking, bad supporting offensive players and potentially bad quarterbacking.

It's on Sam Darnold to work with what he has.  Fortunately, the OLine at least seems to be a little better.  I would submit that the offensive scheme, play-calling and lack of players to call plays for are contributing to the problems and that it's not all on Sam.

I'd also submit that a GM should know the injury tendencies of his team, the history of his training staff, and the propensity of his HC to somehow constantly be surrounded by injured players, and he should take that into account when building an organization and roster.  Joe should have taken fewer, not more risks on injured players.  He should have pulled forward just a little bit of the Cap $$ that have the Jets lined up for the most Cap space in the NFL next year so that his depth chart wasn't so reliant on inexperienced players.  At the same time, JD isn't the one pulling hamstrings out there.  That's not on him.  But drafting and signing guys with injury histories like Perriman, Jabari Zuniga, Bryce Hall, etc. are calculated risks that he took and he may have punched a few wrong buttons on that calculator.

 

 

I see and understand your point. Although I must quibble, m'Lord, with the statement that Darnold is a 0-2 QB.

[Vader]

1 minute ago, TheMo said:

Actually your analysis is a bit off. You are looking at things from a relative stand point. To better articulate @Jetsfan80's point I'll make this more concrete. Your argument is Jamal gives us 2-3 more wins which could be true. What he (and I) are arguing is that if you go from 3-13 to at best 6-10 the Jets are better off with the picks. Either way it's not a good season. It's like adding paprika to spam and trying to convince you it's a gourmet dish. 

Objection: speculation.

[CTM]

57 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Translation:  You really, really badly want to blame him, but are trying to crowd source opinions on when you think it would be safe to do so?

Whether you like it or not if they remain basically non competitive he's partially to blame and enters 2021 near the hot seat

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

Whether you like it or not if they remain basically non competitive he's partially to blame and enters 2021 near the hot seat

lol.  No, he doesn't.  Ownership has no desire to fire Douglas and have to hire a new GM all over again until it becomes absolutely clear they have to.  This is the same Owners who held onto Mike Maccagnan 2-3 years too long.

He has a 6-year deal.  Financially it doesn't make any sense for him to be fired anytime soon.

[Snell41]

Not paying Anderson is looking to be the biggest strike against Douglas.


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[Vader]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

I see and understand your point. Although I must quibble, m'Lord, with the statement that Darnold is a 0-2 QB.

I’ve always wondered — is jgb stand for jerry garcia band?

[jgb]

1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

What a dumb thread title. JD is here to clean this sh*t up.

Blaming the janitor for getting dirt on his hands.

[RobR]

1 minute ago, Snell41 said:

Not paying Anderson is looking to be the biggest strike against Douglas.


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Agreed but the bigger question is did Robby even want to sign back with the Jets regardless of compensation. I wish he would have signed Anderson a year ago when he would be more likely to ink the contract. 

[TheMo]

6 minutes ago, Vader said:

Objection: speculation.

Objection: badgering the witness

Lol but in seriousness we all are speculating. You have no idea if Jamal would have made a difference in our win total thus far. Maye basically replicated his efforts and we got annihilated by the bills. 

[kevinc855]

4 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Not paying Anderson is looking to be the biggest strike against Douglas.


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Terrible move by JD

[Vader]

1 minute ago, Snell41 said:

Not paying Anderson is looking to be the biggest strike against Douglas.


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It’s worse. depending on what happens with Darnold, the locker room, and the WR group this year. If Anderson continues to blow up w 100 yard games while the Jets roll out the same clown show, it will be hard for Douglas to defend. This one decision simultaneously degraded the WR position group as well as the QB. The two most important positions on the team outside of LT.

[Vader]

1 minute ago, TheMo said:

Objection: badgering the witness

Lol but in seriousness we all are speculating. You have no idea if Jamal would have made a difference in our win total thus far. Maye basically replicated his efforts and we got annihilated by the bills. 

I’m really sorry — I’m freaking traumatized by the Jamal threads.... I just can’t ?

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

I hope JD enjoys the remainder of his honeymoon.  The question is just how much longer that will be?   He will have the chance to fire Gase and get his guy, but this honeymoon definitly has an expiration date.  There is deserved criticism thus far, but it’s early.   I’ll reserve judgement on him for now.  

Jesus...How many more idiotic posts are we going to have to suffer through this year about Douglas?

TOM SHANE: What is the over/under?  25 more posts started?  50?

[CanadaSteve]

13 minutes ago, CTM said:

Whether you like it or not if they remain basically non competitive he's partially to blame and enters 2021 near the hot seat

[RSJ]

Especially after turning his very first draft pick into a guy who, 2 weeks into his career, is already easily the best player on the team.

But otherwise his draft really wasnt very good. Like it or not this is looking like JD made a lot of bad decisions and if he continues to back Gase he will go down with him. Possibly with a demotion like Bradway got.


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[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

JD may be Idziking his old buddy Gase. The power of being in year 1 of a 6 year deal. No way Cheapodee and Cheapodumb cut JD before year 4. Idzik was a dummy to try this move on the backend of his contract.

Hmmmmmmmm I was thinking the same thing!

Perhaps he is thinking that the only way to expose Gase fully is to keep the talent lean and FORCE Gase to show his coaching acumen, which so far this year is pretty dam slim!

[maury77]

This season feels a lot like Idzik's second season, when he banked a whole bunch of cap space. I understand JD's logic in banking cap space for next year, but he needs to add weapons to this team ASAP. If that means overpaying slightly to trade for a WR, then by all means do it.

Regarding the criticism of his rookie draft class, no one is complaining about Becton. Mims (who was not injury prone in college) has been hurt all preseason and now, he can't do anything about it. Davis is not playing significant snaps despite coverage during camp that he was playing well. This is on the coaching staff, not JD. Zuniga has been hurt and he was injury prone in college, so you can criticize JD there. Cam Clark hasn't played, but the way GVR is playing, Clark may be getting a chance sooner rather than later. Perine played very little today (for reasons I don't understand). Jets won't see Morgan this year or Hall until much later. Mann has been Ok, better than Edwards was last year. Overall, I don't think you can complain much about the draft class. 

[jetstream23]

23 minutes ago, jgb said:

I see and understand your point. Although I must quibble, m'Lord, with the statement that Darnold is a 0-2 QB.

Well, how about 6-4 in his last 10?

lol

 

 

[FlightBoyz]

19 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Not paying Anderson is looking to be the biggest strike against Douglas.


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Anderson wanted to play for his College coach. Jets def offered him a deal he chose n offense he'd be better suited for

[jgb]

1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

Well, how about 6-4 in his last 10?

lol

 

 

If you limit the sample size selectively, stats will say anything you desire.

[Jet hustle]

Joe Douglas brought in at washed up center last year khalil..  He didn't sign Anderson. He brought in no depth on the offense skill pos.    Yet I have to hear every fan and media member tell me how great this guy is and how we're in great hands even though hes never been A GM before...

 it's mind boggling to me

[CTM]

27 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.  No, he doesn't.  Ownership has no desire to fire Douglas and have to hire a new GM all over again until it becomes absolutely clear they have to.  This is the same Owners who held onto Mike Maccagnan 2-3 years too long.

He has a 6-year deal.  Financially it doesn't make any sense for him to be fired anytime soon.

Like it or not Mac went 10-6 and won some kind of dumb award his first year. That bought him years he clearly didn't deserve.

If Douglass fields a non competitive team in 2020 he enter 2021 near the hotseat, near meaning if they suck and don't show much through the first 1/2 of 2021 he'll be on the hot seat by next thanksgiving.

Douglas, despite your boy crush, has not proven himself at all as of yet.

[Vader]

5 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Hmmmmmmmm I was thinking the same thing!

Perhaps he is thinking that the only way to expose Gase fully is to keep the talent lean and FORCE Gase to show his coaching acumen, which so far this year is pretty dam slim!

He took away the best player on defense and kept the picks in his stash for his future self.

He took away the best WR and added no production of consequence.

its fair to say he is wresting full control of this team.

[Jet2020]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

The guy in the Jets organization with the least blame for this is JD.

How’s that? Sitting on a boatload of salary cap, trading away your best defensive player cuz he didn’t wanna pay him, not signing his best WR cuz again, he didn’t wanna pay, no intent to bring in an actual WR when plenty of #1 WRs were moving around, not even double dipping at WR to help out Sam in an exceptionally loaded draft...list goes on. How has he been any different than Idzik? Even Idzik drafted a DROY so keep the Becton talk to yourself for now. 

[jgb]

Just now, Jet2020 said:

How’s that? Sitting on a boatload of salary cap, trading away your best defensive player cuz he didn’t wanna pay him, not signing his best WR cuz again, he didn’t wanna pay, no intent to bring in an actual WR when plenty of #1 WRs were moving around, not even double dipping at WR to help out Sam in an exceptionally loaded draft...list goes on. How has he been any different than Idzik? Even Idzik drafted a DROY so keep the Becton talk to yourself for now. 

I didn't mention Becton. But since you did, you show admirable self-awareness as to the soft underbelly of your position. Kudos.

[More Cowbell]

I want to see what he turns the Adama picks into before I judge him. If he gets impacr players with those picks, I will remain a fan of his. If not, we may need more the Adam Gase billboards 

[Jet hustle]

2 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

How’s that? Sitting on a boatload of salary cap, trading away your best defensive player cuz he didn’t wanna pay him, not signing his best WR cuz again, he didn’t wanna pay, no intent to bring in an actual WR when plenty of #1 WRs were moving around, not even double dipping at WR to help out Sam in an exceptionally loaded draft...list goes on. How has he been any different than Idzik? Even Idzik drafted a DROY so keep the Becton talk to yourself for now. 

 Everybody  was running idzik out of town and Joe Douglas is the best GM to ever walked God's Earth as per the media and majority of fanbase

[vic]

Before we go after Douglas let’s see how his draft picks performs, so far Becton looks great, Mann the punter looks good too. Why do we have all these hamstring injuries. On top of everything else do we have to wonder about trainers and medical stuff.


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[jetstream23]

If I had to rank things today what is the MOST broken or needing replacement (not including ownership) I think I'm at...

1. Gase

2. The roster

T3. Darnold and Douglas

The first two are unquestionably bad by just about every measurement whether objective or subjective.  But Darnold and Douglas seem like guys with potential who are scrambling to make due with what's available to them and who are each suffering under who they respectively work for (Gase in the case of Darnold, the Johnsons for Douglas).

There will be a TON of pressure on both the Johnsons and Douglas in the coming months.  Both have been steadfast in their commitments to the HC and QB.  CJ already came out and said he waited too long to fire Macc but called Gase, "a brilliant offensive mind."  Does have a realization and fire Gase as well or does he wait too long again?  Douglas came to the Jets saying that he had confidence in Gase and thought Sam was a franchise QB.  I think he'll get one shot to replace the HC if he goes to CJ with that suggestion but will have to really think long and hard about cutting ties with Darnold prior to Year 5.  That would be an admission that his assessment was off on BOTH the HC and QB when he chose to come here.  Douglas told CJ that it would take time to build a roster, but the right HC and QB were already in place.  Douglas will have to either double-down on that assessment, living or dying with it, or show an ability to reassess and admit he was wrong if he wants to pull the plug on either or both.  Going to CJ at the end of this year and saying, "You know what, every single thing you had here was bad and I'll need 5 more years to fix it all," won't go over well with ownership.

[RSJ]

Before we go after Douglas let’s see how his draft picks performs, so far Becton looks great, Mann the punter looks good too. Why do we have all these hamstring injuries. On top of everything else do we have to wonder about trainers and medical stuff.


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His draft was in ok at best. Its still early but I dont see much outside the first round. Pro free agency looks like it was a disaster.


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[jetstream23]

17 minutes ago, jgb said:

If you limit the sample size selectively, stats will say anything you desire.

True.

Also, you're 0 for 4 in this thread.

 

[bostonmajet]

51 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

The Anderson/Perriman deal was a complete debacle. Pay up and get the far better player. A proven player at that. 

That said his biggest call yet has been Becton and he’s looked outstanding. Reports from camp were positive and he’s been our best offensive player through two games. Can’t ask for much more.

He inherited a mess. The next two drafts will make or break him.

I don't know. I thought Robbie even with his dumb on field mistakes was totally worth the money. I think JD made an example of him, and I do believe it was a mistake. Debacle, I think, is a bit of an over statement.