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15 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Wow....nice catch.  That’s actually fascinating.  I would have never thought that would scenario with the Market vs owning the Jets would play like that.

Then again I think there is less risk owning a pro NY sports franchise.  The Johnson’s would probably have lost their as*es if they did their own investing in securities.

I also agree, they are egoists.  It gives them pleasure to be able to say they own, more like “holding hostage”, a pro football team.  When you’re 98 lbs. that’s the only thing that will get an Elizabeth Hurley to talk or even look at you (referring to that picture with our “Ambassador”).

He makes a heck of a lot more than the appreciation of the asset. He gets that plus the (roughly) 8-10% of the franchise value in CASH every year from NFL TV revenue share. We know exactly how much because the Packers as a public corporation must disclose the figure--$255M in 2019. Also interesting to note--the Packers made an additional $200M on top of that in what is called "local revenue"--tickets, sponsorship fees, swag, concessions, etc. The Jets figure is not disclosed but it's almost certainly more, probably a lot more. Sure the Packers are better but NY is the biggest market in sport, Packers don't sell PSLs, and a lot more big events (rental revenue) courses through MetLife in non-Corona times than through Lambeau.

Every dollar Woody doesn't spend on players, coaches, whatever is almost entirely profit (i.e. each reduction of $1 spent does not reduce revenues by anywhere close to $1). It's more profitable to run a cheap loser than an expensive winner. He makes a ton more than if he parked it into an S&P index fund with a lot less volatility and risk.

Someone (I think it was @Bugg) astutely said Woody is not rich enough to buy an NFL franchise today. Owners with most of their wealth tied into their team--exceptions are the heirs of founders for whom football is in their blood--will treat it like a business. Not like the win-at-all-costs plaything that ensures maximum competition.

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I met Woody in person, he doesn't strike me as a football guy, it's just something he owns. Woody doesn't seem confident at all, I watched him at this event he seemed surprised anyone noticed him. He is the guy that if not for his fortune he would be a push around office boy. Not until they sell this team will I invest my time. It's been 20 plus years for me with only a few AFC championship games and mostly misery. Insanity is doing the same expecting different results. Time to stop the madness. We should all dump our gear in the parking lot of florham park.

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12 minutes ago, Shelbyblue said:

I met Woody in person, he doesn't strike me as a football guy, it's just something he owns. Woody doesn't seem confident at all, I watched him at this event he seemed surprised anyone noticed him. He is the guy that if not for his fortune he would be a push around office boy. Not until they sell this team will I invest my time. It's been 20 plus years for me with only a few AFC championship games and mostly misery. Insanity is doing the same expecting different results. Time to stop the madness. We should all dump our gear in the parking lot of florham park.

The two best things to ever happen to Woody--he came out of the right wiener and he bought the NY Jets.

He can't control the first but the second was a stellar business decision. And that's exactly how he runs it. Very successfully--I might add--if his goal is profits, which it most certainly is.

We need an owner whose only goal is to see his toy demolish the toys of his fellow billionaires. Cost be damned. It's about winning and being the big swinging D on the yacht circuit. Our problem isn't that we have a rich, out-of-touch owner who never worked a day in his life. Our problem is that our owner is not rich enough.

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4 hours ago, Shea Jet said:

Why do you think Parcells AND Belichick when the Johnsons bought the team, got the **** out of Dodge????

Much like the Mets and the Wilpons,  the Jets are completely ****ED until these Assholes SELL.

Belichick had one phone call with Woody and was like get me a a beverage napkin I gotta write a resignation letter

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6 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

 

To Phil’s point, this goes back over 10 years.   They hire yes men....   we have left great QBs on the board.  We draft poorly, manage poorly and that stems from a hierarchy that doesn’t work.  We have a GM and a HC who both report to a trust fund baby who by all accounts Has accomplished nothing.  

I don’t see this getting better.  The bills just had a 18 year playoff drought I don’t know how we avoid doing that but worse

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Manish was right

The two best things to ever happen to Woody--he came out of the right wiener and he bought the NY Jets.
He can't control the first but the second was a stellar business decision. And that's exactly how he runs it. Very successfully--I might add--if his goal is profits, which it most certainly is.
We need an owner whose only goal is to see his toy demolish the toys of his fellow billionaires. Cost be damned. It's about winning and being the big swinging D on the yacht circuit. Our problem isn't that we have a rich, out-of-touch owner who never worked a day in his life. Our problem is that our owner is not rich enough.


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They mean well but they are massively incompetent. Owners have to be efficient at how they run their teams.  You're only as good as the organization you create.

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9 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

WEAK argument.    A blind trust , if it owned the Jets, would more than likely have performed better.  That value happened without the Johnsons actions. 

Stadium. Not possible without the jognsons

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1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Manish was right

 


Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

Maniac has been right a lot. Is there any wonder he is the most hated reporter on this site?

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4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I don’t see this getting better.  The bills just had a 18 year playoff drought I don’t know how we avoid doing that but worse

Look at the bright side...  you'll save a SHlT TON of money not buying Jets gear.

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1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

Stadium. Not possible without the jognsons

The stadium just got voted one of the WORST in the league. It's a disaster.  

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14 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

WEAK argument.    A blind trust , if it owned the Jets, would more than likely have performed better.  That value happened without the Johnsons actions. 

 

14 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

That’s just it....  going to owners meetings or other football functions knowing the opposing party knows you are dumb as fukk.  I have always Tried to excel at what I did. I don’t understand mediocrity. 

 

I'm not sure they measure 'success' by the same standards that fans do.

Wins and losses are ignored in the modeling of a team's valuation. The on-field success is largely independent - and at best, loosely correlated - with increase in team value, which is derived from the sharing of TV revenue, sponsorship, merchandising and stadium use.

The Jets' valuation, improved to a respectable 6th out of 32 after the new stadium secured sponsorship deals and naming rights, and has stayed there ever since: https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/ and teams look positioned to capture a [bigger] slice of TV revenues that are projected to double when the rights go up for renewal: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/22/nfl-tv-rights-up-for-renewal-in-2022-and-big-media-will-pay-more.html 

Compared to where this franchise was when he 'overpaid' for it back in 2000: with an unfavorable lease agreement and league-low revenue per fan (https://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/12/sports/the-jets-fill-one-opening-new-owner-at-635-million.html ), the Johnsons have reason to think they've done pretty well. 

It's a rosy outlook for ones investing with a risk-averse approach. Stability, and the free PR that comes with it - think of all the 'personal' puff pieces written about him by the media circa 2008-2010, like this one:  https://nymag.com/news/sports/68084/

 

Personnel decisions are nothing more than administrative costs, i doubt they really care about on-field competence. The 'buzz' and noticeable changes that were needed to improve the franchise's financial outlook at the end of the 00s aren't needed anymore. As an investment; the property is running on auto-pilot. Secure, with very little incentive to improve results. And it's not as if fans are refusing to watch, they turn up in the droves. 

My feeling is that the Johnsons rely on the short term buzz created by big-time free agent signings, without giving too much thought towards a long-term vision. A few good seasons here and there, with some excitement, controversy and drama, is enough to satisfy the appetites of the media and the public. 

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9 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

Personnel decisions are nothing more than administrative costs, i doubt they really care about on-field competence. The 'buzz' and noticeable changes that were needed to improve the franchise's financial outlook at the end of the 00s aren't needed anymore. As an investment; the property is running on auto-pilot. Secure, with very little incentive to improve results. And it's not as if fans are refusing to watch, they turn up in the droves. 

My feeling is that the Johnsons rely on the short term buzz created by big-time free agent signings, without giving too much thought towards a long-term vision. A few good seasons here and there, with some excitement, controversy and drama, is enough to satisfy the appetites of the media and the public. 

The 2 paragraphs above say everything about the Johnsons. Well run teams do NOT run this way.

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10 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

 

I'm not sure they measure 'success' by the same standards that fans do.

Wins and losses are ignored in the modeling of a team's valuation. The on-field success is largely independent - and at best, loosely correlated - with increase in team value, which is derived from the sharing of TV revenue, sponsorship, merchandising and stadium use.

The Jets' valuation, improved to a respectable 6th out of 32 after the new stadium secured sponsorship deals and naming rights, and has stayed there ever since: https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/ and teams look positioned to capture a [bigger] slice of TV revenues that are projected to double when the rights go up for renewal: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/22/nfl-tv-rights-up-for-renewal-in-2022-and-big-media-will-pay-more.html 

Compared to where this franchise was when he 'overpaid' for it back in 2000: with an unfavorable lease agreement and league-low revenue per fan (https://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/12/sports/the-jets-fill-one-opening-new-owner-at-635-million.html ), the Johnsons have reason to think they've done pretty well. 

It's a rosy outlook for ones investing with a risk-averse approach. Stability, and the free PR that comes with it - think of all the 'personal' puff pieces written about him by the media circa 2008-2010, like this one:  https://nymag.com/news/sports/68084/

 

Personnel decisions are nothing more than administrative costs, i doubt they really care about on-field competence. The 'buzz' and noticeable changes that were needed to improve the franchise's financial outlook at the end of the 00s aren't needed anymore. As an investment; the property is running on auto-pilot. Secure, with very little incentive to improve results. And it's not as if fans are refusing to watch, they turn up in the droves. 

My feeling is that the Johnsons rely on the short term buzz created by big-time free agent signings, without giving too much thought towards a long-term vision. A few good seasons here and there, with some excitement, controversy and drama, is enough to satisfy the appetites of the media and the public. 

Owners seemed more interested in the uniform change(another fail, including the cringey reveal party) than the actual football product. 

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9 hours ago, jgb said:

The two best things to ever happen to Woody--he came out of the right wiener and he bought the NY Jets.

He can't control the first but the second was a stellar business decision. And that's exactly how he runs it. Very successfully--I might add--if his goal is profits, which it most certainly is.

We need an owner whose only goal is to see his toy demolish the toys of his fellow billionaires. Cost be damned. It's about winning and being the big swinging D on the yacht circuit. Our problem isn't that we have a rich, out-of-touch owner who never worked a day in his life. Our problem is that our owner is not rich enough.

 

Good ownership makes a difference, but i think most owners are aware that there's only so many good players and only so many good coaches. If you don't have one of those handful, you're stuck in mediocrity. This is fate of most NFL teams, not just the Jets. 

Ultimately, they can't coach the team, nor can they score the touchdowns. Realistically speaking, you only have 3, maybe 4 teams contending for a Super Bowl. 

I don't intend to sound like an apologist for bad ownership - the johnsons are too disengaged for my liking and don't delegate to the right people - but there's only so much an owner can do to influence whatever happens on the field.

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9 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

 

I'm not sure they measure 'success' by the same standards that fans do.

Wins and losses are ignored in the modeling of a team's valuation. The on-field success is largely independent - and at best, loosely correlated - with increase in team value, which is derived from the sharing of TV revenue, sponsorship, merchandising and stadium use.

The Jets' valuation, improved to a respectable 6th out of 32 after the new stadium secured sponsorship deals and naming rights, and has stayed there ever since: https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/ and teams look positioned to capture a [bigger] slice of TV revenues that are projected to double when the rights go up for renewal: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/22/nfl-tv-rights-up-for-renewal-in-2022-and-big-media-will-pay-more.html 

Compared to where this franchise was when he 'overpaid' for it back in 2000: with an unfavorable lease agreement and league-low revenue per fan (https://www.nytimes.com/2000/01/12/sports/the-jets-fill-one-opening-new-owner-at-635-million.html ), the Johnsons have reason to think they've done pretty well. 

It's a rosy outlook for ones investing with a risk-averse approach. Stability, and the free PR that comes with it - think of all the 'personal' puff pieces written about him by the media circa 2008-2010, like this one:  https://nymag.com/news/sports/68084/

 

Personnel decisions are nothing more than administrative costs, i doubt they really care about on-field competence. The 'buzz' and noticeable changes that were needed to improve the franchise's financial outlook at the end of the 00s aren't needed anymore. As an investment; the property is running on auto-pilot. Secure, with very little incentive to improve results. And it's not as if fans are refusing to watch, they turn up in the droves. 

My feeling is that the Johnsons rely on the short term buzz created by big-time free agent signings, without giving too much thought towards a long-term vision. A few good seasons here and there, with some excitement, controversy and drama, is enough to satisfy the appetites of the media and the public. 

Woody has made one smart business decision ever and it was buying the jets.  If he wasn’t a trust fund any he would be lucky to have a mop job and I’m not exaggerating 

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4 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

Good ownership makes a difference, but i think most owners are aware that there's only so many good players and only so many good coaches. If you don't have one of those handful, you're stuck in mediocrity. This is fate of most NFL teams, not just the Jets. 

Ultimately, they can't coach the team, nor can they score the touchdowns. Realistically speaking, you only have 3, maybe 4 teams contending for a Super Bowl. 

I don't intend to sound like an apologist for bad ownership - the johnsons are too disengaged for my liking and don't delegate to the right people - but there's only so much an owner can do to influence whatever happens on the field.

I would argue that they are TOO engaged.  Reason being is the moronic structure of their organization.   Why the head coach and GM report separately to the owner is beyond me.  I wish they were disengaged and just let the GM be a GM and be responsible for the head coaching decisions.  I would much rather my owner admit they don’t really know football and defer any football decisions to the actual football people.   Christopher Johnson coming out and praising Adam Gase and saying this is where football is heading was beyond idiotic and shows he has zero clue about football.  Sadly, we can’t fire the owners and are stuck with them, best we can do is hope they stumble into making the right decisions.  

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Just now, southparkcpa said:

The 2 paragraphs above say everything about the Johnsons. Well run teams do NOT run this way.

But from their point of view, this IS a well-run team. They bought this team for $635 million, and it's now worth $3.55 billion. 

If we were asking these questions to Woody johnson, these are the numbers he would point to. He would argue that the team's financial outlook is objectively better than what it was previously, and that he presided over the team's most successful run in recent history, reaching 2 back to back AFC championship games. 

Any discussion relating to players/coaches, is just a matter of opinion. As fans, all we can do is vent. 

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The problem with the Johnson's is not about finances.  They want to win.  In fact they desperately want to win.  I believe their intentions are good.  They are simply incompetent.  Chris Johnson admittedly left the team for months after arranging a shotgun marriage between Mac and Gase.  If there is one consistency during the Johnson reign it has been the wildly unsuccessful shotgun marriages.  For those who want to point to other organizations that operate this way, let's be clear, we are not the Steelers.  If our owners were named Rooney, it would be fine.  But they are named Johnson.  They need to finally 'know what they don't know'.  Once they  understand that, they can surround yourself with competent people and let them run the show.

The solution is to let Douglas make the next decisions.  Let him decide when to fire Gase.  Let him decide who their next coach will be.  And most of all, let that coach report to Douglas.  

 

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If the Johnsons were solely focused on increasing the value of the team, wouldn't that mean they are looking to cash out at some point?  We can hope, right?

IMO - the teams that do well consistently are owned by "self made" guys like Kraft or "legacy" families like the Rooneys.  Basically new guys coming in that have had experience building things from the ground up or families that already have influence in the league and are masters of its politics.  

Jets need a Bezos type to be successful plain and simple.  

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30 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

But from their point of view, this IS a well-run team. They bought this team for $635 million, and it's now worth $3.55 billion. 

If we were asking these questions to Woody johnson, these are the numbers he would point to. He would argue that the team's financial outlook is objectively better than what it was previously, and that he presided over the team's most successful run in recent history, reaching 2 back to back AFC championship games. 

Any discussion relating to players/coaches, is just a matter of opinion. As fans, all we can do is vent. 

Absolutely not.  When your value, could have been 30 -50 percent higher from different revenue sources that come from winning, etc.  Ive already posted that the value has not kept pace with the stock market.  

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16 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

They are in over their head.  And it’s scary how they think they know football.

Yes.   Exactly.  This is a textbook example of the Dunning-Kruger effect

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5 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

The stadium just got voted one of the WORST in the league. It's a disaster.  

you really think the economics of a stadium is based on how it looks or where it ranks in voting?

 

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34 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Absolutely not.  When your value, could have been 30 -50 percent higher from different revenue sources that come from winning, etc.  Ive already posted that the value has not kept pace with the stock market.  

Winning doesn't affect valuation though, does it? The revenue from media and TV rights is locked-in, and unaffected by how much an individual team wins or loses. Their investment is positioned for the long term, and a decade of crappy results won't change their outlook when the team ranks as the 6th most valuable NFL franchise. You can make bigger money elsewhere, but you certainly can't lose money on the Jets. 

It's important to remember that this guy comes from big pharma, the Jets aren't his primary concern.  

The dedicated owners are those who associate their name and legacy with the franchise. Jerry Jones and his family, for example, live off the Cowboys, it's their pride and joy, they are front and centre. The Johnsons have no desire to overtly associate themselves with the Jets, its not that important to them (anymore). 

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35 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Absolutely not.  When your value, could have been 30 -50 percent higher from different revenue sources that come from winning, etc.  Ive already posted that the value has not kept pace with the stock market.  

1) you are absolutely dead wrong about the Jets and the stock market.  it's not even close.  the S&P 500 was around 2200 in Jan 2000.  it's 3300 now (50% increase in 20 years.  throw in 2% a year dividends)

The Jets value increase is multiples of that gain.  you are wrong even if you use the QQQ.

2) explain specfically how the value can go up 30% if they are a winning franchise?  Is KC franchise going to be worth 30% more now that they are winning?  

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Although the Johnsons are rivaling James Dolan for ineptitude and stupidity in managing a big market franchise, I don't think they have his capacity to bear hatred (at least, if it's not too up close and personal).  The Johnsons pay attention to headlines.  They make idiotic personnel moves (Tebow and L'eveon Bell), to get headlines.  They responded to fan outrage and got rid of John Idzik before they really wanted to.  Perhaps a relentless amount of non-stop verbal abuse will convince them to cash in on their investment, take an extremely handsome profit, and move on to other things.  We can only pray,

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3 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

The Producers (1967) - IMDb

Exactly. Woody is the Max Bialystok of the  NFL.

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16 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

you really think the economics of a stadium is based on how it looks or where it ranks in voting?

 

You claimed he did a good job with the stadium.  I disagree. I state it was 50 percent over budget and by today's standards is a terrible stadium. 

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42 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

Winning doesn't affect valuation though, does it? The revenue from media and TV rights is locked-in, and unaffected by how much an individual team wins or loses. Their investment is positioned for the long term, and a decade of crappy results won't change their outlook when the team ranks as the 6th most valuable NFL franchise. You can make bigger money elsewhere, but you certainly can't lose money on the Jets. 

It's important to remember that this guy comes from big pharma, the Jets aren't his primary concern.  

The dedicated owners are those who associate their name and legacy with the franchise. Jerry Jones and his family, for example, live off the Cowboys, it's their pride and joy, they are front and centre. The Johnsons have no desire to overtly associate themselves with the Jets, its not that important to them (anymore). 

You sir are delusional. He comes from Big Pharma?  He has zero to do with J and J. Hell... for a rich kid, he went to a very average college. I'm done here. He has taken a bottom 3rd team and made it a bottom 3 team.  

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11 hours ago, jgb said:

He makes a heck of a lot more than the appreciation of the asset. He gets that plus the (roughly) 8-10% of the franchise value in CASH every year from NFL TV revenue share. We know exactly how much because the Packers as a public corporation must disclose the figure--$255M in 2019. Also interesting to note--the Packers made an additional $200M on top of that in what is called "local revenue"--tickets, sponsorship fees, swag, concessions, etc. The Jets figure is not disclosed but it's almost certainly more, probably a lot more. Sure the Packers are better but NY is the biggest market in sport, Packers don't sell PSLs, and a lot more big events (rental revenue) courses through MetLife in non-Corona times than through Lambeau.

Every dollar Woody doesn't spend on players, coaches, whatever is almost entirely profit (i.e. each reduction of $1 spent does not reduce revenues by anywhere close to $1). It's more profitable to run a cheap loser than an expensive winner. He makes a ton more than if he parked it into an S&P index fund with a lot less volatility and risk.

Someone (I think it was @Bugg) astutely said Woody is not rich enough to buy an NFL franchise today. Owners with most of their wealth tied into their team--exceptions are the heirs of founders for whom football is in their blood--will treat it like a business. Not like the win-at-all-costs plaything that ensures maximum competition.

So there go, spelled out perfectly by you, which leads to the conclusion that the Jets will NEVER be “built to win” as long as the Johnson’s own the Franchise, same as when the Wilpons controlled the Mets.

Might be Decades before the Jets ever get to another playoff game.

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7 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

So there go, spelled out perfectly by you, which leads to the conclusion that the Jets will NEVER be “built to win” as long as the Johnson’s own the Franchise, same as when the Wilpons controlled the Mets.

Might be Decades before the Jets ever get to another playoff game.

Still possible the Jets stumble ass backwards lucky side up into a good GM who drafts well. No one can predicted JD's future--NFL GM is a very difficult job--but at least this wasn't an obvious in-over-his-head el cheapo decision as usual.

Problem is also that Johnsons compound the pressure for every personnel decision because they are the most reluctant owners in sport to fire an obvious failure with multiple years left on his contract lest they have to pay that fat buyout. Other organizations are willing to jettison obvious fails after 1 season and move on.

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