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Rhg1084

Trade Compensation for Sam/ #1 overall pick

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Excuses.  That's all Darnold has.  Excuses.  Either you can play or you can't in this league.  Darnold hasn't shown he can do it.  And you want to pay that guy $30M+ per to find out.

Except practically no QB would be able to succeed with what the Jets have trotted out there on offense the past 2-3 seasons. Let's be real.

Trevor Lawrence wouldn't have either.

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Except practically no QB would be able to succeed with what the Jets have trotted out there on offense the past 2-3 seasons. Let's be real.

Trevor Lawrence wouldn't have either.

Congratulations you have just argued that Sam *might* not be the absolute worst QB in the entire league despite performing like it.

You have not argued that he is a good player. To be a good player you have to, well, play good.

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21 minutes ago, jgb said:

Congratulations you have just argued that Sam *might* not be the absolute worst QB in the entire league despite performing like it.

You have not argued that he is a good player. To be a good player you have to, well, play good.

The last two seasons should prove he is at the very least, decent.

He may or may not be good long-term, sure. I'm not using the Jets trash offense the past couple of years as Darnold's official benchmark. It would not surprise me one bit if Darnold finds success elsewhere. 

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6 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Ok so this might be premature since it’s only 2 weeks in, or not? However the Jets look like they’re on the fast track to the #1 overall pick. I honestly think 0-16 could be in the cards.

Now with that being said - Douglas will obviously have a career altering decision to make. Does he keep Sam and trade the #1 overall pick? He could possibly land like 3 1st round picks in a deal like that. 
 

Or should he trade Sam and take Lawrence.

Even with everything that’s happened, and we have to see how the rest of the season plays out. But, what could we get for Sam? A 1st? 
 

id choose option A and trade the 1st pick and just have a plethora of picks and cap space to build around Sam. Putting Lawrence in this situation would be the same exact result. We’d have like 6 first round picks the next 3 years to build around Sam 

Gotta take Lawrence....trade Sam for what you can get....I like Sam and wanted things to work out.   Just think at this point he is damaged beyond repair and you can't pass on a top qb prospect because you hope your last top prospect figures it out on his third coach.   Further. You also sign a vet or keep flacco.  Lawrence doesn't start until the sh*t show has been cleaned up.

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39 minutes ago, pajet said:

Gotta take Lawrence....trade Sam for what you can get....I like Sam and wanted things to work out.   Just think at this point he is damaged beyond repair and you can't pass on a top qb prospect because you hope your last top prospect figures it out on his third coach.   Further. You also sign a vet or keep flacco.  Lawrence doesn't start until the sh*t show has been cleaned up.

Funny — 91 passer rating with scrubs ar WR. Right but let’s start the lab experiment over with the next jets fans QB crush. Been the same since at least Pennington. 

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

The last two seasons should prove he is at the very least, decent.

He may or may not be good long-term, sure. I'm not using the Jets trash offense the past couple of years as Darnold's official benchmark. It would not surprise me one bit if Darnold finds success elsewhere. 

I hope you mean “the next two seasons should prove he is decent at least.”

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Watch Sam go elsewhere with good coaching and light it up

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11 minutes ago, DLJ said:

Watch Sam go elsewhere with good coaching and light it up

Black and yellow will be perfect for Sam. 

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Watch Sam go elsewhere with good coaching and light it up
This is entirely possible... But what's indubitably clear is that he's not getting coached here to win. For whatever reason he's failing here. So it's going to end up being best for both sides if we get maximum value for him after we draft Trevor Lawrence on a cheaper contract.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

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10 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Except practically no QB would be able to succeed with what the Jets have trotted out there on offense the past 2-3 seasons. Let's be real.

Trevor Lawrence wouldn't have either.

Like I said.  Excuses.  And "success" is a relative term.  You act like we expect the Jets to win 10 games behind Sam and nothing else.  I just want to see a QB who looks the part of a franchise guy, even if we lose games 38-21. 

It's possible to evaluate a QB even in these circumstances.  28 starts in and Darnold just isn't the guy.  Not even close.

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

28 starts in and Darnold just isn't the guy.  Not even close.

The Jets offense and offensive coaching of the past 2-3 years would do that to practically any QB, moreso a young one.

If there's one thing I will say, is that it seems like Darnold has gotten worse under Gase this year so far. How much of that is on Gase or the skill players, I don't know. 

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

The Jets offense and offensive coaching of the past 2-3 years would do that to practically any QB, moreso a young one.

If there's one thing I will say, is that it seems like Darnold has gotten worse under Gase this year so far. How much of that is on Gase or the skill players, I don't know. 

He wasn't all that good at USC or as a rookie, either.  So even if you want to say Gase and the Jets "ruined" Darnold, he just wasn't that impressive from the start.  There wasn't a ton of ability to ruin.

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5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He wasn't all that good at USC or as a rookie, either.  So even if you want to say Gase and the Jets "ruined" Darnold, he just wasn't that impressive from the start.  There wasn't a ton of ability to ruin.

That's just revisionary history now. Darnold was considered one of the top QB prospects of the last decade and one of the best since Andrew Luck. To say he wasn't all that good at USC is a lie.

The fact is, Darnold hasn't had anything resembling a line or a weapon to throw to since he got here. He's literally never had a #1 (and you could argue he's never had a #2) receiver. No effective running game. This year is the first year he MIGHT have a decent O-line (jury still out as they mesh). And then dealing with Adam Gase. You're asking a lot for a young QB to overcome all that.

Now, Darnold may still very well not end up being the guy, but it's hard to get a full read based on the hand he's been dealt with here. 

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

That's just revisionary history now. Darnold was considered one of the top QB prospects of the last decade and one of the best since Andrew Luck. To say he wasn't all that good at USC is a lie.

Link?

He had some significant flaws, most notably turnover issues, that made this not the case.  You just think he was based rated that highly because of the Rose Bowl game and the hype it generated for him.  His 2nd season as a starter took a fair bit of the bloom off the rose.  

If he was such a generational/once-in-a-decade prospect, why did not one but 2 QB-needy franchises pass on him?  The very fact that he didn't go # 1 really hurts that argument.  It also does not put him on that Andrew Luck level.  He really was not even close.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Link?

He had serious flaws, most notably turnover issues, that made this not the case.  You just think he was based rated that highly because of the Rose Bowl game and the hype it generated for him.  

If he was such a generational/once-in-a-decade prospect, why did not one but 2 QB-needy franchises pass on him?  The very fact that he didn't go # 1 does not put him on that Andrew Luck level.  He really was not even close.

Not really. Cleveland was dead set between either Darnold or Mayfield, and went with the latter. Giants were super enamored with Barkley (mainly Gettleman) and they felt Manning still had enough left in the tank, which obviously wasn't the case. A lot of Giants fans I've talked to wish they had drafted Darnold over him. 

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Not really. Cleveland was dead set between either Darnold or Mayfield, and went with the latter. Giants were super enamored with Barkley (mainly Gettleman) and they felt Manning still had enough left in the tank, which obviously wasn't the case. A lot of Giants fans I've talked to wish they had drafted Darnold over him. 

Yes, really.  Everything you say here demonstrates he simply wasn't that level of prospect.  Could you argue he was the consensus top QB of the class, and the Browns and Giants simply weren't enamored with him?  I suppose.  Generational or once-in-a-decade type prospect?  Absolutely not.

If he was, someone would have blown away the Giants with a package of picks to move up to 2.  There were no reports of anything like that being offered up.

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We're talking about the Jets here. With our luck, the Giants end up with the #1 pick, Jets end up #2. Giants fire Gettleman and take Lawrence and move on from his mistake.

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At this point I think we end up 2-14.

Wins coming against against Denver & Miami once.

After that...maybe squeezing in an upset against Cleveland. 3-13 is our ceiling.

The top pick will definitely be in play for us.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, really.  Everything you say here demonstrates he simply wasn't that level of prospect.  Could you argue he was the consensus top QB of the class, and the Browns and Giants simply weren't enamored with him?  I suppose.  Generational or once-in-a-decade type prospect?  Absolutely not.

If he was, someone would have blown away the Giants with a package of picks to move up to 2.  There were no reports of anything like that being offered up.

Can’t believe Gettlemen didn’t call Macc and try to scare a late round pick to swap picks knowing he’d end up with Barkley anyway. My unprovable thesis is that Gettlemen tried and Macc said “I’m good with either Rosen or Darnold if someone wants to trade with you to jump us, I guess fate will decide which guy we get.” Macc sucked.

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Much too early to talk about getting rid of Sam. He is a superbly talented player, who is terribly misused by the Jets. Crappy coaching, shaky o- line and terrible receivers. He has the worst situation of ant QB in the league.


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Rosen was a 10th overall pick; he was traded for a 2nd & 5th. 

Sam was 3rd overall; maybe we can trade him to the Colts in exchange for some 2nd round picks back. We gave them THREE to move up and get him.
I think getting back two 2nd round picks is a fair trade. 
 

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They're either trading Sam or trading the top pick.

I'd rather trade the top pick.  Sam has the tools.  Now he needs a coach and his GM needs to get him the skill position weapons.

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If they get the #1 pick, I'm trading it.

Picking Lawrence would only put him in the same situation Darnold is in now.... no weapons, shoddy offensive line (except for Becton).

This team has too many holes to fill to put it all on one QB. We need a pass rusher, cornerbacks, offensive line, wide receivers, linebackers and possibly a tight end. Get the haul for the pick and start filling some of these holes, then draft a QB.

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On 9/20/2020 at 6:27 PM, Rhg1084 said:

Ok so this might be premature since it’s only 2 weeks in, or not? However the Jets look like they’re on the fast track to the #1 overall pick. I honestly think 0-16 could be in the cards.

Now with that being said - Douglas will obviously have a career altering decision to make. Does he keep Sam and trade the #1 overall pick? He could possibly land like 3 1st round picks in a deal like that. 
 

Or should he trade Sam and take Lawrence.

Even with everything that’s happened, and we have to see how the rest of the season plays out. But, what could we get for Sam? A 1st? 
 

id choose option A and trade the 1st pick and just have a plethora of picks and cap space to build around Sam. Putting Lawrence in this situation would be the same exact result. We’d have like 6 first round picks the next 3 years to build around Sam 

If we go 0-16, do you really think Sam would be the answer? 

0-16 means a complete sweep of the organization. Can’t keep a single person in the FO from an 0-16 team. 

plus we already have four 1st round picks the next 2 years. If that’s not enough to fill your bucket, nothing is. 

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4 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Maybe the Steelers will give us a 1st round pick 

Sam Darnold even up for Ju-Ju Smith Schuster. We play Morgan,White at QB the rest of the season or Flacco. 

We get the #1 pick draft Trevor Lawrence. 

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