We got fleeced by Palmer.

[STLuLu]

15 minutes ago, Vader said:

Who is kyler Murray throwing to this year?

oh. Okay. 

Notice I said last year...which he still balled.

[Vader]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

You want someone who's aware enough to recognize that Sam Darnold is crap to take the side of the action that also requires the New York Jets to make a smart decision?

Let’s get him some NFL quality WRs and then talk. 

[Vader]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Maybe he doesn't get to make audibles or deal with pre-snap motion, because it's too complex for him as he struggles with even the basics.  Which, makes sense considering how little he has played the position.

That was the case with Sanchez — he has red, yellow and green triggers. We would have heard about it by now if Darnold was an idiot 

[Vader]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Maybe he doesn't get to make audibles or deal with pre-snap motion, because it's too complex for him as he struggles with even the basics.  Which, makes sense considering how little he has played the position.

That was the case with Sanchez — he has red, yellow and green triggers. We would have heard about it by now if Darnold was an idiot 

[Vader]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Maybe he doesn't get to make audibles or deal with pre-snap motion, because it's too complex for him as he struggles with even the basics.  Which, makes sense considering how little he has played the position.

That was the case with Sanchez — he has red, yellow and green triggers. We would have heard about it by now if Darnold was an idiot 

[Vader]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Maybe he doesn't get to make audibles or deal with pre-snap motion, because it's too complex for him as he struggles with even the basics.  Which, makes sense considering how little he has played the position.

That was the case with Sanchez — he has red, yellow and green triggers. We would have heard about it by now if Darnold was an idiot 

[BROOKLYN JET]

Just now, Vader said:

Let’s get him some NFL quality WRs and then talk. 

If he's on the team next year, which I doubt, he'll be completing for the job.

He's going to have to win it, no matter who his WRs are.

[Vader]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Maybe he doesn't get to make audibles or deal with pre-snap motion, because it's too complex for him as he struggles with even the basics.  Which, makes sense considering how little he has played the position.

That was the case with Sanchez — he has red, yellow and green triggers. We would have heard about it by now if Darnold was an idiot 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Vader said:

That was the case with Sanchez — he has red, yellow and green triggers. We would have heard about it by now if Darnold was an idiot 

This isn't Rex's Jets.  They keep their business in-house.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

If he's on the team next year, which I doubt, he'll be completing for the job.

He's going to have to win it, no matter who his WRs are.

He'll be on the team next year.  But, I'm hopeful there will be some competition.  There should have been already.  But, we don't bring in competition for our young QBs, for fear it will hurt their feelings/create a situation where they're outplayed.

[JetFreak89]

What do his receivers have to do with his poor footwork?  What about his poor decision making?  What about his average arm?  What about his poor pocket awareness?  Are these all because of the WRs?

I’ve seen a couple of posters point out “poor pocket awareness” and to be honest I don’t see it. He isn’t running straight backwards as he routinely did in year 1. He is stepping up into the pocket and has routinely slid away from pressure in the last two games. Part of the reason he was rightly vilified in game 1 was because after escaping pressure he failed to make a couple throws on the run. Plenty of things to criticize Darnold on but I don’t buy pocket awareness as one of them.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Vader]

Just now, TeddEY said:

He'll be on the team next year.  But, I'm hopeful there will be some competition.  There should have been already.  But, we don't bring in competition for our young QBs, for fear it will hurt their feelings/create a situation where they're outplayed.

Yeah, create competition rather than create synergies in the passing game by actually getting some WRs — so jetsy 

[Vader]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This isn't Rex's Jets.  They keep their business in-house.

There’s no conspiracy. Darnold ain’t Sanchez.

And Sanchez had Keller, Holmes, Edwards, brick, Mangold, shonn Greene, and a top 5 defense — it’s not close.

[BROOKLYN JET]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

He'll be on the team next year.  But, I'm hopeful there will be some competition.  There should have been already.  But, we don't bring in competition for our young QBs, for fear it will hurt their feelings/create a situation where they're outplayed.

Yeah, he'll probably be there until they have to pick up his option or they can trade him.

There definitely needs to be a QB competition, if he loses his spot, it will justify his departure even further.

[STLuLu]

8 minutes ago, Vader said:

Let’s get him some NFL quality WRs and then talk. 

Who's Russell Wilson throwing to right now? He already has 4 TDs tonight.

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, JetFreak89 said:

I’ve seen a couple of posters point out “poor pocket awareness” and to be honest I don’t see it. He isn’t running straight backwards as he routinely did in year 1. He is stepping up into the pocket and has routinely slid away from pressure in the last two games. Part of the reason he was rightly vilified in game 1 was because after escaping pressure he failed to make a couple throws on the run. Plenty of things to criticize Darnold on but I don’t buy pocket awareness as one of them.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Bails out too quickly, and rarely steps up into the pocket to deliver a strike.  Yes, line is bad, but you just don't see him as strong in the pocket.

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, Vader said:

There’s no conspiracy. Darnold ain’t Sanchez.

And Sanchez had Keller, Holmes, Edwards, brick, Mangold, shonn Greene, and a top 5 defense — it’s not close.

I hated Sanchez, and from a performance standpoint, as of today, Darnold isn't Sanchez, and not in the way you're thinking.  Sadly.

[Vader]

4 minutes ago, STLuLu said:

Who's Russell Wilson throwing to right now? He already has 4 TDs tonight.

Not sure — have you heard of DK Metcalf? Tyler Locket? Greg Olson?

are you delusional?

when was the last time you saw an article like this re the Jets 

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/greg-olsen-seahawks-show-off-wealth-of-offensive-weaponry-in-week-1-victory

[Vader]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I hated Sanchez, and from a performance standpoint, as of today, Darnold isn't Sanchez, and not in the way you're thinking.  Sadly.

Also delusional 

So you are saying Sanchez in context of his weapons > Darnold in context of his?

[STLuLu]

6 minutes ago, Vader said:

Not sure — have you heard of DK Metcalf? Tyler Locket? Greg Olson?

are you delusional?

when was the last time you saw an article like this re the Jets 

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/greg-olsen-seahawks-show-off-wealth-of-offensive-weaponry-in-week-1-victory

No, but you are if you think they're good on their own and not because Wilson is making them look better than what they really are. You're honest gonna sit there and say that Darnold would be preforming like Wilson right now if those players you just named were playing for the Jets?

[greenwichjetfan]

47 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

It is not disingenuous or misguided as he is the exact same player he was in college.  The ruined notion is a fantasy, and absolutely nothing more.  He also hasn't gotten any worse.  Last year, he played 7 games against the bottom six defenses in the NFL.  He also put up some all time disastrous performances.

And, obviously better talent would improve things.  But, I'd like an explanation as to how the talent level is relevant to these glaring flaws in his game.  Aaron Rodgers is a great example, actually.  He's certainly had down years, but his down years look like Darnold's best games.  The poor talent around him doesn't make him throw off his back foot.  It doesn't make him throw YOLO balls.  It doesn't make him completely ineffective.  It just means that he can't be as successful.  You don't look at Rodgers in those years and say, that's a bad QB.  It's obvious he's still great.  This isn't about production.  This is about complete lack of efficacy at the position.  Differentiating between the two should be easy.  There's literally nothing you can point to that Sam Darnold does well.

Aaron Rodgers is also conservative to a fault. There are numerous articles detailing his risk-averse decision making. That helps him not look like a bad QB when the circumstances aren’t great. Darnold is a gambler. So when the roster is sh*t and the play calling sucks, he’s still going to try to make that play that Aaron Rodgers would hold back or check down, and that’s what leads to YOLO plays off his back foot. My suspicion is that if you put a better cast around him and get better playcalling, his gambles will look better and those YOLO ints will become HOLY sh*t TDs. 

That was the book on him coming out of college. A gambler who makes plays. His first year, he fixed his fumbling issues, worked on his mechanics, had an absolutely dreadful game against Miami (I think), and then ended the year on a tear culminating in his best outing against none other than Aaron Rodgers. As a guy who didn’t care for Sam in the draft, that GB game was the game that turned me into a believer. I saw that he was raw and needed reps, but that he had a legit chance based on nothing more than talent. I’m curious whether you were as down on him and saying things like “he’s the same player as he was in college” going into that offseason.

The fact that he regressed last year (his final numbers look better than he was because of the extremely easy schedule to close the season), and that he’s regressed even further this year is why I’m down on him, but I attribute a lot of that to what’s going on with game prep, game calling, and QB coaching/development. 

[greenwichjetfan]

dupe

[Vader]

1 minute ago, STLuLu said:

No, but you are if you think they're good on their own and not because Wilson is making them look better than what they really are. You're honest gonna sit there and say that Darnold would be preforming like Wilson right now if those players you just named were playing for the Jets?

Not sure if you are serious....

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, Vader said:

Also delusional 

So you are saying Sanchez in context of his weapons > Darnold in context of his?

It’s impossible to compare.  But as of today, Darnold hasn’t proven he’s better than Sanchez, no.

[STLuLu]

5 minutes ago, Vader said:

Not sure if you are serious....

Bout as serious as you being a Darnold fanboy.

[CTJetsFan]

3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

What do his receivers have to do with his poor footwork?  What about his poor decision making?  What about his average arm?  What about his poor pocket awareness?  Are these all because of the WRs?I 

I'd like to go back and watch the tape again in the next day or so to focus on his performance, but what mistake did he make today? What big play did he miss on? I don't recall any.

He threw a BB to Herndon on the run in the only spot it could be thrown for a TD  and Herndon dropped it. No, his arm is better than average.

Has he developed a case of happy feet...yes. Was the throw to the middle of the field in Buffalo dumb....yes. But watch just about every QB in the NFL and they have at least 1 of those throws/plays a game too.

Does he appear to be regressing...yes. But Jesus Christ he had Malone, Berrios and Hogan as his WRs most of the game. Hogan had a brutal drop early and the turf monster stopped Berrios from a drive continuing 1st down. A perfect throw to GrIffin but he gets called for PI.

Again, where were Sam's mistakes today?

[Vader]

5 minutes ago, STLuLu said:

Bout as serious as you being a Darnold fanboy.

You are completely delusional.

You have posited exchanging Lockett, DK Metcalf, Olson, And Carson for what Darnold has in the passing game and claimed that the results would not be different. 

i think that’s just totally misinformed.

[LIJetsFan]

3 hours ago, ganggreen305 said:

I’m just so down about Darnold.  I was so excited about him this year.  I watched all these videos from Palmer about nobody looks better or is working harder than Darnold.  He’s actually gotten worse with Palmer and Gase.  So upset.  

Isn't Palmer the guy who said Hack was good?  Case closed.  

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Aaron Rodgers is also conservative to a fault. There are numerous articles detailing his risk-averse decision making. That helps him not look like a bad QB when the circumstances aren’t great. Darnold is a gambler who makes plays. That was the book on him coming out of college. He fixed his fumbling issues, worked on his mechanics, had an absolutely dreadful game against Miami (I think), and then ended the year on a tear culminating in his best outing against none other than Aaron Rodgers.

What were your thoughts on him going into that offseason? My thoughts were that he was raw and needed reps, but that he had a legit chance based on nothing more than talent. The fact that he regressed last year (his final numbers look better than he was because of the extremely easy schedule to close the season), and that he’s regressed even further this year is why I’m down on him, but I attribute a lot of that to what’s going on with game prep, game calling, and QB coaching/development. 

Darnold is more of a gambler who doesn't make plays though.  As sort of evidenced by his relative lack of plays made.

My feelings were also hopeful, but I don't see last year as much of a regression, as I think, outside of the one game against the Packers, he wasn't actually as good as people are remembering.  I think, in fact, it was blown out of proportion because he was so bad before that, outside of 2 games.  I mean, he still finished 2018 at 30th in DVOA and DYAR.  I think we're all fans, and we were hopeful, in the same way we were with Sanchez, that only the good moments would stick.  Unfortunately, just like Sanchez, the good moments are solidifying themselves as outliers. 

[STLuLu]

1 minute ago, Vader said:

You are completely delusional.

You have posited exchanging Lockett, DK Metcalf, Olson, And Carson for what Darnold has in the passing game and claimed that the results would not be different. 

i think that’s just totally misinformed.

In case you haven't noticed, Brandon Shell's non-blocking ass is playing for the Seahawks tonight but Wilson still has 5 TD passes. So let me guess...if Shell was still playing for the Jets Darnold would've had 5 TDs today too?

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

I'd like to go back and watch the tape again in the next day or so to focus on his performance, but what mistake did he make today? What big play did he miss on? I don't recall any.

He threw a BB to Herndon on the run in the only spot it could be thrown for a TD  and Herndon dropped it. No, his arm is better than average.

Has he developed a case of happy feet...yes. Was the throw to the middle of the field in Buffalo dumb....yes. But watch just about every QB in the NFL and they have at least 1 of those throws/plays a game too.

Does he appear to be regressing...yes. But Jesus Christ he had Malone, Berrios and Hogan as his WRs most of the game. Hogan had a brutal drop early and the turf monster stopped Berrios from a drive continuing 1st down. A perfect throw to GrIffin but he gets called for PI.

Again, where were Sam's mistakes today?

I don't recall any major mistakes today.  But then again, I didn't make it 4 quarters.  Today was just a wholly ineffective performance, and the throw to Herndon, while dropped - he wouldn't have gotten himself down in bounds, even if he'd caught it.  Only Herndon could catch it at least in part because it wasn't in play.

That he's not good enough to get it done doesn't mean that everything he does is bad, nor that he never makes good plays.  He just doesn't do anything well enough or consistently enough to be successful in this league, and he doesn't make enough positive plays to overcome his bad plays, like Favre, the comparison de jour.

[Vader]

3 minutes ago, STLuLu said:

In case you haven't noticed, Brandon Shell's non-blocking ass is playing for the Seahawks tonight but Wilson still has 5 TD passes. So let me guess...if Shell was still playing for the Jets Darnold would've had 5 TDs today too?

Right — no answer so let’s change the topic. How many TDs has shell caught? When was he even mentioned last in this thread? 

the answer is the same — delusional. Exchange Malone, Berrios and whomever else we had at WR for Metcalf, Lockett Olsen, and Carson and you have a different result. No, Darnold isn’t Wilson but It’s not complicated.

[Inigo Montoya]

2 hours ago, Vader said:

Darnold wasn’t drafted as a project, a QB that needs to be fixed. He is an extremely idiosyncratic passer — yet he was consensus #1 prospect not just in his draft class but he was viewed as one of the best QB prospects in years. 

Jordan Palmer is irrelevant to Sams success. His footwork could be better yeah. It will lead to some bad plays, yes. But these are irrelevant to his success. How the franchise supports him is what matters. 

They haven’t supported him. He has had the worst roster support of any QB I have ever seen. 

Thats the real reason in my opinion the optics are bad — beyond optics this lack of support is certainly a multiplier that exacerbates the bad habits and potentially can snowball. That is true and I would concede that. 

 

I agree Vader.  I'm a Bills' fan and I think it's a shame what has happened to Darnold, who I would have been happy for the Bills to draft that year.  If he had gone to Buffalo he would probably be a baller right now.  It makes a huge difference where a player gets drafted.  Darnold went to a franchise in turmoil and Allen went to a franchise that brought in a new coach and GM who had their act together and did things right to support Allen.  That's the story.  I feel bad for Darnold.  Maybe he can escape Gase and pull a Tanneyhill in a new city.  He'll probably have to hold a clipboard first but if he gets a second chance I think he can be a solid NFL QB.

[STLuLu]

7 minutes ago, Vader said:

Right — no answer so let’s change the topic. How many TDs has shell caught? When was he even mentioned last in this thread? 

A QB can't throw TD passes without O-linemen blocking, smart guy. But since you like Seahawk offensive players so much I just used Shell as a reminder to you how great Wilson is. Even with NY Jets' trash blocking for him, he still finds a way to get it done unlike Darnold. 

[greenwichjetfan]

31 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Darnold is more of a gambler who doesn't make plays though.  As sort of evidenced by his relative lack of plays made.

My feelings were also hopeful, but I don't see last year as much of a regression, as I think, outside of the one game against the Packers, he wasn't actually as good as people are remembering.  I think, in fact, it was blown out of proportion because he was so bad before that, outside of 2 games.  I mean, he still finished 2018 at 30th in DVOA and DYAR.  I think we're all fans, and we were hopeful, in the same way we were with Sanchez, that only the good moments would stick.  Unfortunately, just like Sanchez, the good moments are solidifying themselves as outliers. 

I edited my earlier post to include this but you probably didn’t see it regarding the gambler mentality:

Aaron Rodgers is also conservative to a fault. There are numerous articles detailing his risk-averse decision making. That helps him not look like a bad QB when the circumstances aren’t great. Darnold is a gambler. So when the roster is sh*t and the playcalling sucks, he’s still going to try to make that play that Aaron Rodgers would hold back or check down, and that’s what leads to YOLO plays off his back foot. My suspicion is that if you put a better cast around him and get better playcalling, his gambles will look better and those YOLO ints will become HOLY sh*t TDs.

Additionally, I believe that the more time he spends with Gase, the more he’s being stripped of that one unique characteristic that made him such a highly touted prospect. We saw a little of this when he held on to the potential big throw to Crowder on the run last week. When you take away the risk, you take away the potential reward. That’s why he didn’t break 100 yards passing till his 16th completion today. That’s completely a function of Gase’s offense.

I can understand proceeding with caution due to Sanchez before. However, I never believed in Sanchez. Even in 2010 when he was tying/winning games in the 4Q or overtime, I was vocal that the reason he had to pull it out of his ass was because he couldn’t get it done in the first 3 Qs. Also, the difference in coaching and rosters is night and day between the two. Those ‘09 ‘10 teams were some of the most talented in the league, and the OC for those teams currently has had Russell Wilson playing like an MVP for the last 2+ years.

Being from Greenwich, I loved Steve Young growing up. A heisman trophy runner up (highly touted prospect) who went to awful circumstances and looked like an absolute bust. Then he gets to go to a Bill Walsh offense with a superstar roster, and he becomes a first ballot HoFer. 

Of course I’m not comparing Sam to Steve, and I don’t believe Douglas will be able to build that type of roster in just a year or two, and there is no Bill Walsh waiting to be hired. I just think that for a young QB, circumstances are extremely influential in both their play in the moment and also in their career trajectory.