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slats

The Jets were built by morons, it's a big job to fix it

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2 minutes ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas shows up here and the biggest contracts on the roster are an unavailable inside LB, a past his prime RB, a broken WR, and a terrible CB. His draft assets include a promising QB prospect to go a long with a couple DTs and a safety - and the jury remains out on the QB. C.J. Mosley has played a half of football for the Jets for which he's already been paid $29M and has another $14M fully guaranteed on the way. Le'Veon Bell has been crap here, and now he's on the IR now, too. 

The OL? Garbage. WRs and CBs? Garbage. Pass rush? Non-existent. 

Douglas unceremoniously unloaded Trumaine Johnson (who still counts $4M against this year's cap). He got a third and a fifth for Leonard Williams. He'll probably dump Bell the way he dropped TJ, and he'll have a decision to make on Mosley. 

People continuing to whine about Da Prez are out of their minds. This trade was always going to be a net negative for 2020. This year, the Jets got Bradley McDougald for an over-hyped all pro. That's a downgrade, yeah. But next year, Seattle gives the Jets 1st & 3rd round picks and the Jets give them nothing. The following year the Jets send Seattle a 4th round pick in exchange for another 1st. This was a fantastic trade for the long term health of this team. I understand the frustration that fans are feeling this year but if you want to see the team built right, that's going to take some time. 

The fact is that there are still a lot of questions regarding the head coach and the quarterback, and the answers are tough to figure out without an off season program, a preseason, and what still amounts to a crappy roster. They're not going to knee-jerk it like the fans and fire the coach week two. They're going to let it play out with Sam in the same system two years in a row for the first time ever.

What I see is Joe Douglas hedging his bets this year. He's going to be in better position to improve the team than maybe every other GM in the league next year - especially if the cap takes a big covid hit. He'll be in position to build around Gase and Darnold if that's what he wants, or he'll have enough assets available to attract a new head coach and bring in another QB if that's the direction he decides to go in. This was always going to take time, and this year was always going to be a lengthy evaluation process. 

Well put... JD had a tough task and hence all his 1 year deals... If you prove yourself you stay... If you suck we will replace you... He has to build a base... Let's just hope the injury row he drafted shows up at some point to see how well or bad he has drafted but I think that Mims is going to surprise a lot of people here and Darnold is going to start using him as a crutch like Stafford did with Megatron. 

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peoples biggest issue seems to be Gase...but the reality is while it doesnt seem like he is making chicken soup out of chicken sh*t....the problems go much deeper. the talent gap between this group and a real NFL team is wide to say the least. You could argue Becton is already our second best player...and only reason i put Darnold first is because he is a QB.

i know people are down on Sam, but it was him and 3 receivers who would not make the second string on any team in the NFL...lets keep things in perspective.

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What’s JD’s assessment of Darnold? Kind of hinges on that moving forward. 

Hard to see Minshew balling while Darnold is throwing 3 yard outs and think there isn’t a problem.

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JD was dealt a crap hand, true.  That 6-2 stretch put all us glass half full types in a horrible spot of hoping.  

Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

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JD has a lot of work to do. The mess that previous regimes have left have killed this franchise. I'm fully confident he'll be able to fix it. Gonna take time tho.

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Biggest morons in our history:   Hess, Guttman, Steinberg, Idzik, Mccagnan and a few other tools luckily I've forgotten.

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As long as the Johnson’s own the team, we will be handicapped. They are poor businessmen and have worse football acumen. It’s not impossible, but they suck.

 

That said Slats, I agree with your post. I never understood the pre-season optimism for this roster.

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13 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What’s JD’s assessment of Darnold? Kind of hinges on that moving forward. 

Hard to see Minshew balling while Darnold is throwing 3 yard outs and think there isn’t a problem.

Like I said, In my opinion, he's hedging his bets. It's basically up to Sam -who's still the second youngest starting QB in the league- to shine despite his surrounding cast and coaches. I think the three yard outs are more a product of Gase's play-calling than Sam's ability. I really do. But they have to fix that. If they don't, Gase will be gone and the next head coach will have a tremendous say in whether the Jets stick with Darnold in 2021 or trade him for whatever they can get and move in another direction. 

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i didn't think we were allowed to say anything intelligent here

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29 minutes ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas shows up here and the biggest contracts on the roster are an unavailable inside LB, a past his prime RB, a broken WR, and a terrible CB. His draft assets include a promising QB prospect to go a long with a couple DTs and a safety - and the jury remains out on the QB. C.J. Mosley has played a half of football for the Jets for which he's already been paid $29M and has another $14M fully guaranteed on the way. Le'Veon Bell has been crap here, and now he's on the IR now, too. 

The OL? Garbage. WRs and CBs? Garbage. Pass rush? Non-existent. 

Douglas unceremoniously unloaded Trumaine Johnson (who still counts $4M against this year's cap). He got a third and a fifth for Leonard Williams. He'll probably dump Bell the way he dropped TJ, and he'll have a decision to make on Mosley. 

People continuing to whine about Da Prez are out of their minds. This trade was always going to be a net negative for 2020. This year, the Jets got Bradley McDougald for an over-hyped all pro. That's a downgrade, yeah. But next year, Seattle gives the Jets 1st & 3rd round picks and the Jets give them nothing. The following year the Jets send Seattle a 4th round pick in exchange for another 1st. This was a fantastic trade for the long term health of this team. I understand the frustration that fans are feeling this year but if you want to see the team built right, that's going to take some time. 

The fact is that there are still a lot of questions regarding the head coach and the quarterback, and the answers are tough to figure out without an off season program, a preseason, and what still amounts to a crappy roster. They're not going to knee-jerk it like the fans and fire the coach week two. They're going to let it play out with Sam in the same system two years in a row for the first time ever.

What I see is Joe Douglas hedging his bets this year. He's going to be in better position to improve the team than maybe every other GM in the league next year - especially if the cap takes a big covid hit. He'll be in position to build around Gase and Darnold if that's what he wants, or he'll have enough assets available to attract a new head coach and bring in another QB if that's the direction he decides to go in. This was always going to take time, and this year was always going to be a lengthy evaluation process. 

I agree with everything you say and have faith in Joe Douglas but would really like to see some positives this year instead of complete regression.  Douglas can be judged by his draft and free agency moves this year.   So far Becton and Mann seem like immediate contributors but Mims, Zuniga, Clark, and Hall are all injured and Davis is anything but a sure thing.  No undrafted free agent even looks promising and Perriman seems like a disaster in the making, with the WR group looking worse than last year. Van Roten and McGovern haven't looked great either.  I know it's early but my God what an epic horrible start with these first two games.  I wasn't necessarily looking for playoffs this year, but  we are pretty clearly the worst team in the league and I wasn't expecting that.

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53 minutes ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas shows up here and the biggest contracts on the roster are an unavailable inside LB, a past his prime RB, a broken WR, and a terrible CB. His draft assets include a promising QB prospect to go a long with a couple DTs and a safety - and the jury remains out on the QB. C.J. Mosley has played a half of football for the Jets for which he's already been paid $29M and has another $14M fully guaranteed on the way. Le'Veon Bell has been crap here, and now he's on the IR now, too. 

The OL? Garbage. WRs and CBs? Garbage. Pass rush? Non-existent. 

Douglas unceremoniously unloaded Trumaine Johnson (who still counts $4M against this year's cap). He got a third and a fifth for Leonard Williams. He'll probably dump Bell the way he dropped TJ, and he'll have a decision to make on Mosley. 

People continuing to whine about Da Prez are out of their minds. This trade was always going to be a net negative for 2020. This year, the Jets got Bradley McDougald for an over-hyped all pro. That's a downgrade, yeah. But next year, Seattle gives the Jets 1st & 3rd round picks and the Jets give them nothing. The following year the Jets send Seattle a 4th round pick in exchange for another 1st. This was a fantastic trade for the long term health of this team. I understand the frustration that fans are feeling this year but if you want to see the team built right, that's going to take some time. 

The fact is that there are still a lot of questions regarding the head coach and the quarterback, and the answers are tough to figure out without an off season program, a preseason, and what still amounts to a crappy roster. They're not going to knee-jerk it like the fans and fire the coach week two. They're going to let it play out with Sam in the same system two years in a row for the first time ever.

What I see is Joe Douglas hedging his bets this year. He's going to be in better position to improve the team than maybe every other GM in the league next year - especially if the cap takes a big covid hit. He'll be in position to build around Gase and Darnold if that's what he wants, or he'll have enough assets available to attract a new head coach and bring in another QB if that's the direction he decides to go in. This was always going to take time, and this year was always going to be a lengthy evaluation process. 

Preach brother! 
JD demanded a 6 year contract bc he knew this was going to take a while. 

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Douglas has a tough job for sure, that doesn't mean he gets a free pass.  He has made some very nice moves and draft picks but also made some errors.  Right now his 1st draft other than Becton is garbage as far as who is actually contributing.  He has treated the Wr position the way mccagnan treated the oline.

His biggest test after this year will be as to whether Adam Gase is still coach.  If he is still coac then douglas is either not smart enough to realize gase stinks or not brave enough to tell Cjohnston gase must be fired.

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12 minutes ago, docdhc said:

I agree with everything you say and have faith in Joe Douglas but would really like to see some positives this year instead of complete regression.  Douglas can be judged by his draft and free agency moves this year.   So far Becton and Mann seem like immediate contributors but Mims, Zuniga, Clark, and Hall are all injured and Davis is anything but a sure thing.  No undrafted free agent even looks promising and Perriman seems like a disaster in the making, with the WR group looking worse than last year. Van Roten and McGovern haven't looked great either.  I know it's early but my God what an epic horrible start with these first two games.  I wasn't necessarily looking for playoffs this year, but  we are pretty clearly the worst team in the league and I wasn't expecting that.

Yes. While Joe Douglas evaluates the situation he finds himself in, we can evaluate his draft class. The only hope here is that Douglas is good at drafting. Guys like Mims and Zuniga not being able to get on the field really hurts, same with Perine to a slightly lesser degree. 

As for UDFAs, Bryce Huff made the team and he held onto a WR and a couple CBs on the practice squad. All team needs. I think UDFAs making rosters was way down this year without the benefit of a preseason, so I can't worry about that too much. 

They changed out the entire offensive line. Of course it was going to be a ****show early on. Even with a preseason, you'd expect a sloppy first month of the year. There's a lot of work still to do there, but Gase has to let his balls drop and make some play calls. They have to let Darnold open it up and make his mistakes, even if all he has to throw to is Berrios, Hogan, and Herndon. This dink & dunk crap isn't getting anyone anywhere. 

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46 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What’s JD’s assessment of Darnold? Kind of hinges on that moving forward. 

Hard to see Minshew balling while Darnold is throwing 3 yard outs and think there isn’t a problem.

That's why Morgan was drafted.Minshew was what, a 6th rd pick? You just never know until a guy gets his shot.

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47 minutes ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas shows up here and the biggest contracts on the roster are an unavailable inside LB, a past his prime RB, a broken WR, and a terrible CB. His draft assets include a promising QB prospect to go a long with a couple DTs and a safety - and the jury remains out on the QB. C.J. Mosley has played a half of football for the Jets for which he's already been paid $29M and has another $14M fully guaranteed on the way. Le'Veon Bell has been crap here, and now he's on the IR now, too. 

The OL? Garbage. WRs and CBs? Garbage. Pass rush? Non-existent. 

Douglas unceremoniously unloaded Trumaine Johnson (who still counts $4M against this year's cap). He got a third and a fifth for Leonard Williams. He'll probably dump Bell the way he dropped TJ, and he'll have a decision to make on Mosley. 

People continuing to whine about Da Prez are out of their minds. This trade was always going to be a net negative for 2020. This year, the Jets got Bradley McDougald for an over-hyped all pro. That's a downgrade, yeah. But next year, Seattle gives the Jets 1st & 3rd round picks and the Jets give them nothing. The following year the Jets send Seattle a 4th round pick in exchange for another 1st. This was a fantastic trade for the long term health of this team. I understand the frustration that fans are feeling this year but if you want to see the team built right, that's going to take some time. 

The fact is that there are still a lot of questions regarding the head coach and the quarterback, and the answers are tough to figure out without an off season program, a preseason, and what still amounts to a crappy roster. They're not going to knee-jerk it like the fans and fire the coach week two. They're going to let it play out with Sam in the same system two years in a row for the first time ever.

What I see is Joe Douglas hedging his bets this year. He's going to be in better position to improve the team than maybe every other GM in the league next year - especially if the cap takes a big covid hit. He'll be in position to build around Gase and Darnold if that's what he wants, or he'll have enough assets available to attract a new head coach and bring in another QB if that's the direction he decides to go in. This was always going to take time, and this year was always going to be a lengthy evaluation process. 

Excellent post. I would add that early returns show that there is a better than good chance we have our LT set (injury aside) for the long term and our DT from the previous regime (Quinenn) has had a better than average start to only his second season. As far as the QB goes, I dont think he is going anywhere soon, even if we get the #1 pick. He is still quit young (second among starting Qbs) has shown that he can be successful in small sample sizes, had to overcome mono and then covid training camp without preseason. His TD pass in garbage time shows his athletic ability. Many dropped passes by guys who are not starting caliber Wrs and cant get separation. Honestly, what can Darnald do?.   . Our OLINE looks significantly better than last year and we are only two games in. I am sure we will continue to build on this unit. Mims really hurts right now.. Bigger than what most expected. I believe if he were playing and shown any signs of having chemistry with Darnald there would be hope. Mims being hurt makes our Wrs corp really look like a helpless unit. Week 2's Wrs, (minus Perriman) you can make an argument that most to all could be replaced next season. (Maybe Vyncent Smith when healthy and Berrios hang on) . I agree, be patient, Rome not built in a day, and if you allow yourself, we are not as bad as being portrayed.

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2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

He has treated the Wr position the way mccagnan treated the oline.

I don't think this is entirely fair, but I hear you. I would've held onto Robby and/or drafted another WR, that's for sure. Mims not being able to get on the field for more than a couple of practices is what's killing them. He was the centerpiece at the position. 

At least JD knew to go OL-WR to begin his career here. Those positions will almost certainly go high next year, too. 

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3 minutes ago, slats said:

Yes. While Joe Douglas evaluates the situation he finds himself in, we can evaluate his draft class. The only hope here is that Douglas is good at drafting. Guys like Mims and Zuniga not being able to get on the field really hurts, same with Perine to a slightly lesser degree. 

As for UDFAs, Bryce Huff made the team and he held onto a WR and a couple CBs on the practice squad. All team needs. I think UDFAs making rosters was way down this year without the benefit of a preseason, so I can't worry about that too much. 

They changed out the entire offensive line. Of course it was going to be a ****show early on. Even with a preseason, you'd expect a sloppy first month of the year. There's a lot of work still to do there, but Gase has to let his balls drop and make some play calls. They have to let Darnold open it up and make his mistakes, even if all he has to throw to is Berrios, Hogan, and Herndon. This dink & dunk crap isn't getting anyone anywhere. 

No argument with this either. That field goal decision in the second half was as chicken s*** as any call that Bowles made. Also the 3rd and then 4th and 1 calls were terrible with handing the ball to the back 3 yds behind the line. There was no nose tackle in front of Darnold and he could have easily sneaked for a first down. Or how about play action on 3rd down if you knew you were going for It on 4th? Even Gase doesn’t like his own play calling when you listen to him after the games. He has no confidence or imagination. 

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8 minutes ago, slats said:

I don't think this is entirely fair, but I hear you. I would've held onto Robby and/or drafted another WR, that's for sure. Mims not being able to get on the field for more than a couple of practices is what's killing them. He was the centerpiece at the position. 

At least JD knew to go OL-WR to begin his career here. Those positions will almost certainly go high next year, too. 

It's the results that matter.  I still think mims can be really good but he could be another Dee millliner.  His doctson move did nothing, perriman has been a big disappointment so far.

We will see what happens from here on in.

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It isn't about this year and anybody who thought the jets would win more than 5 games were kidding themselves. It's about 2021 and beyond which I believe the Jets will be in good position to sign some talent as teams will struggle with the realities of a covid cap, not to mention 4 first rounders in the next 2 years. JD has basically punted on this year. No Adams, no Anderson, no real FA signings and plenty of cap space, no Mosley once again, and a ton of injuries as usual to an already thin roster. There is no doubt in my mind the team will hit rock bottom this year, 2 or 3 wins at most. 

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I think Joe Douglas knows how to build a roster. But the way the Jets are currently setup, I don't think he has the power to fire and replace the HC with his own guy. That's the biggest problem facing the Jets right now.

And the impression you get from the owner is that he couldn't be more sure that he hired the right guy in Adam Gase. That is scary. 

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The WRs obviously are currently a dumpster fire, but the original plan was not terrible-we all knew that.  

The FA WRs were terrible.  We drafted Mims high, signed Doctson and Perriman and had the Smiths, Malone and others from last year, which Douglas decided to roll with rather than roll with lower round draft picks.  He picked Morgan to avoid having to pay millions for a backup QB.  It was a decent plan, ignoring a priority to develop Darnold.

OL was also built up, but we probably gave too much credit to GVR and even Lewis.  Clark was supposed to step in...but he is hurt. 

So basically, JD should have spent a little more money to make sure that Darnold could develop and not lose his marbles-that could have been Robby and a better guard.  

But none of JD’s personnel moves are going to look good unless we have a better coach coaching them and better training and conditioning.   I also think part of the injuries are players not wanting to play for the coach. 

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1 hour ago, slats said:

 

People continuing to whine about Da Prez are out of their minds. This trade was always going to be a net negative for 2020. This year, the Jets got Bradley McDougald for an over-hyped all pro. That's a downgrade, yeah. But next year, Seattle gives the Jets 1st & 3rd round picks and the Jets give them nothing. The following year the Jets send Seattle a 4th round pick in exchange for another 1st. This was a fantastic trade for the long term health of this team. I understand the frustration that fans are feeling this year but if you want to see the team built right, that's going to take some time. 

 

This trade is the only highlight of the Jets' 2020 season. 

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Douglas gets an incomplete for now. He's been wrong as often as he's been right but his big decisions are ahead of him so all we can do is wait and see.

Gase is hopeless and will be gone, IMO the sooner the better.

We're stuck with Dumb and Dumber unfortunately.

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3 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

JD was dealt a crap hand, true.  That 6-2 stretch put all us glass half full types in a horrible spot of hoping.  

That's the thing:  Douglas wasn't fooled by this.  The team was outscored by 83 points on the season.  This was a bad roster.  Every decision he made over the offseason was made with the knowledge that this was never going to be a quick fix.  The 6-2 finish wasn't a sign of better days to come in 2020.  

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POTY candidate here, @slats, even though the great John Idzik faced the same challenge while also getting shanked non-stop by Rex and you never gave him credit for conducting himself honorably during his tenure

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30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Dee Milliner had an extensive injury history in college, and everyone knew about it.  Mims didn't miss a single game in college.  

So?  If Mims is not playing he is not contributing.

WR was a major weakness, every one knew that and many teams double and tripled down on Wrs in this draft.  Douglas drafted other guys instead and here we are with our #1 wr being hogan

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4 hours ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas shows up here and the biggest contracts on the roster are an unavailable inside LB, a past his prime RB, a broken WR, and a terrible CB. His draft assets include a promising QB prospect to go a long with a couple DTs and a safety - and the jury remains out on the QB. C.J. Mosley has played a half of football for the Jets for which he's already been paid $29M and has another $14M fully guaranteed on the way. Le'Veon Bell has been crap here, and now he's on the IR now, too. 

The OL? Garbage. WRs and CBs? Garbage. Pass rush? Non-existent. 

Douglas unceremoniously unloaded Trumaine Johnson (who still counts $4M against this year's cap). He got a third and a fifth for Leonard Williams. He'll probably dump Bell the way he dropped TJ, and he'll have a decision to make on Mosley. 

People continuing to whine about Da Prez are out of their minds. This trade was always going to be a net negative for 2020. This year, the Jets got Bradley McDougald for an over-hyped all pro. That's a downgrade, yeah. But next year, Seattle gives the Jets 1st & 3rd round picks and the Jets give them nothing. The following year the Jets send Seattle a 4th round pick in exchange for another 1st. This was a fantastic trade for the long term health of this team. I understand the frustration that fans are feeling this year but if you want to see the team built right, that's going to take some time. 

The fact is that there are still a lot of questions regarding the head coach and the quarterback, and the answers are tough to figure out without an off season program, a preseason, and what still amounts to a crappy roster. They're not going to knee-jerk it like the fans and fire the coach week two. They're going to let it play out with Sam in the same system two years in a row for the first time ever.

What I see is Joe Douglas hedging his bets this year. He's going to be in better position to improve the team than maybe every other GM in the league next year - especially if the cap takes a big covid hit. He'll be in position to build around Gase and Darnold if that's what he wants, or he'll have enough assets available to attract a new head coach and bring in another QB if that's the direction he decides to go in. This was always going to take time, and this year was always going to be a lengthy evaluation process. 

Well said and I agree and have thought the job JD has is an enormous task.  I am a bit concerned with the amount of short term contracts that will have to be replaced, and or resigned.  If it does not get better there will be a constant free shuffling up front on the line once again.  Some guys will be let go overall, some may not want to come back here as a perceived losing franchise  ,and some guys may feel low balled. I guess all the things I liked about short term contract on upside guys is if they did not show potential we will have a boat load of work one again. I guess what I'm saying is if the line don't work out, clearly right now the middle push defenses get is disappointing , draft capital must be applied. Also it is concerning that maybe Gase throwing three foot passes is more an indictment of the line than Sam.  I don't know the answer to that but it sure is worrisome. Linebacker is another area where draft capital must be spent. To slow and to old.  Back end is and has been worrisome too. BTW Olgetree was atrocious, Burgess played his butt off and was at least competent. Olgetree also quit last game. used to be a warrior, now seems a guy looking to cash checks.  So line, db, edge, linebacker, wide out and another rb somewhere is still a great need. so if we start addressing all of the above via the draft then become a very young team once again, I think they know that Sam is the sacrificial lamb. If he makes it through and somehow does enough to stay healthy and show his promise he stays. if not, we continue to get younger and if a qb is out there they like they go get him or draft one and really blowing it up. We are too talent deficient now to draft a qb one in my opinion. if we make it to a one pick, get a boatload, stock up and then when the team is professional, strike for a qb if he is there, a chance we have to take. I don't see anyone coming here right now that will turn the franchise with our talent group. 

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

So?  If Mims is not playing he is not contributing.

WR was a major weakness, every one knew that and many teams double and tripled down on Wrs in this draft.  Douglas drafted other guys instead and here we are with our #1 wr being hogan

The point is he could have never known Mims would be an injury risk at all, because he wasn't.

Blaming him for not drafting a 2nd WR and/or adding another FA WR is fine.  Personally I wanted DeMarcus Robinson as a cheap WR4. 

But blaming him for Mims getting injured is completely unfair, and you're better than that.  We could have never known all 4 of our top 4 WRs on the depth chart would go down with injuries.  You don't get to negatively evaluate the Mims pick on that basis.  Once he gets on the field he'll prove to be a future WR1.  

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29 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

POTY candidate here, @slats, even though the great John Idzik faced the same challenge while also getting shanked non-stop by Rex and you never gave him credit for conducting himself honorably during his tenure

Lol, the implication here is that Idzik was one of the idiots. 

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Just now, slats said:

Lol, the implication here is that Idzik was one of the idiots. 

Well yeah but

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