When we fire Gase, the Jets job next year is a good one

[artemusclyde]

Crazy to remember that before we hired Gase this was one of the most sought after jobs for NFL coaches. Doubt it is now that Darnold's been exposed as a fraud. Only way it's appealing is if we tank for the #1 pick.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, jetscrazey said:

I thought we were going 5-0.

Clown.

We would have if not for the injuries.  

Puss. 

SAR I

[jetscrazey]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

We would have if not for the injuries.  

Puss. 

SAR I

Are injuries just exclusive to the Jets or something?  You make yourself look more ridiculous which each additional post.

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, jetscrazey said:

Are injuries just exclusive to the Jets or something?  You make yourself look more ridiculous which each additional post.

Injuries are not exclusive to the Jets, but when your roster is paper-thin from years of GM neglect they are far more deadly.

Gase can’t let Sam throw down the field because we don’t have legitimate wide receivers who can get open, they were all watching the game from the hospital. Gase can’t run the ball because his running back is out. You wonder why the offense is inept? There is your answer.

SAR I

[Vader]

Useless thread. We aren’t getting the #1 pick and even if we were, the rational thing to do is trade down for a bounty rather than duplicate a position and the same cycle over and over and over.

if you have the #1 pick and trade out you will have something that looks like 3-4 first round picks in 2021 and/or 2-3 in 2022. You would still have Darnold and Becton and that’s how you build a winner.

Over those two years with up to 8 1st rounders you draft more OL, more WR, edge, and CB. You stack the roster.

[GREENBEAN]

5 hours ago, pointman said:

I love that we are so bad that many of us are assuming we will get the number 1 pick. What we are forgetting is we are unlucky as unlucky gets and we will wind up being the guys who pick one pick after Bosa is taken.. and we take another defensive tackle

The same Bosa who had yet another season ending injury?  That is EXACTLY the type of guy we are usually unlucky enough to nab.  Rookie of the year. Yaaaay!  Member Sheldon Richardson?   Seasons and careers are long man.  I look at Bosa and I see Steve Emtman. 

[jetscrazey]

Even with a reduced cap, the Jets will have enough space to sign some top free agents and field a good team in 2021.

They're $72 million under the reduced 2021 cap, and cutting Bell, Henry Anderson, and Van Roten takes the cap space up to $92 million.

In a year where many teams will have to scramble to get under the cap, too.  Good players will be out there.

Joe Douglas has set himself up for a post-COVID feast.  Firing the coach is the more important thing.

[Vader]

8 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Even with a reduced cap, the Jets will have enough space to sign some top free agents and field a good team in 2021.

They're $72 million under the reduced 2021 cap, and cutting Bell, Henry Anderson, and Van Roten takes the cap space up to $92 million.

In a year where many teams will have to scramble to get under the cap, too.  Good players will be out there.

Joe Douglas has set himself up for a post-COVID feast.  Firing the coach is the more important thing.

Solid post

[jgb]

4 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Nah man, not this year.  This team has the 32nd worst roster in a 32 team league and 31 is so far in the distance the Hubbell telescope can’t see 31, not to mention the WORST coaching staff....I think more than 1 single win is a stretch.  The #1 pick in 2021 will be owned by the Jets.

Been following this team a long time. We will win a couple “WTF did that performance come from???” games to knock us out of top pick.

[WowOhWow]

10 hours ago, SAR I said:

Gase isn’t getting fired.  He is our long-term solution.   

You’re going to have to man-up and grow a pair.  There is no quick-fix.  

SAR I

Not sure if you answered my question in another thread - are you a Jets fan?  If not, and all you're doing is trolling and stirring the pot, then I have to seriously question whether anything you say is actually what you really feel or what you really feel will fire up Jets fans.

Kinda odd that someone who's not a Jets fan would always have these outlandishly counter-arguments.  I'm starting to think you're a fraud.

[Irish Jet]

Not wrong. This is why the Adams trade was a no brainer. 

It's especially true if Becton is as good as he appears. Lot of pressure on Douglas to nail the next two drafts but even with the injuries the early signs with this one are good - He seems to have nailed the big decision.

As I've said before if we have the Lawrence pick then coaches will be lining up for the Jets job - It would be an entirely new regime essentially as Douglas wasn't tied to Sam. I think persisting with Darnold who has looked broken at times will be a killer for some. He's under serious pressure to save his job - Doesn't help his case that his current HC doesn't seem to trust him at all. 

I also find the idea that Lawrence would reject the Jets to be nonsense tbh. 

[WowOhWow]

5 hours ago, Vader said:

Useless thread. We aren’t getting the #1 pick and even if we were, the rational thing to do is trade down for a bounty rather than duplicate a position and the same cycle over and over and over.

if you have the #1 pick and trade out you will have something that looks like 3-4 first round picks in 2021 and/or 2-3 in 2022. You would still have Darnold and Becton and that’s how you build a winner.

Over those two years with up to 8 1st rounders you draft more OL, more WR, edge, and CB. You stack the roster.

no one ever said anything about the #1 pick - read what was written.  Let me remind you of how the NFL draft system works.  The worse you are, the better ALL your draft picks are.  When this dismal season is over the Jets will have a very bad record.  That means they will get high draft picks in each round.  They also have additional picks to work with.  That's a good situation.

A situation that is exactly what you mention in your thread.  

[Losmeister]

we firing gregg too.???...cos the d has sucked

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, WowOhWow said:

Not sure if you answered my question in another thread - are you a Jets fan?  If not, and all you're doing is trolling and stirring the pot, then I have to seriously question whether anything you say is actually what you really feel or what you really feel will fire up Jets fans.

Kinda odd that someone who's not a Jets fan would always have these outlandishly counter-arguments.  I'm starting to think you're a fraud.

Jets fan?  Haven't missed a game since 1978, season ticket holder since 2001, PSL owner since 2010.

I'm not sure why speaking honestly and objectively is stirring any pot.  From my perspective, all you gloom-and-doomers are the ones stirring things up, not those of us who understand what the team is trying to do.

Our ownership has made it abundantly clear that they are rebuilding the hard way, finally, after decades of get-rich-quick schemes that aren't sustainable.  I would much rather have a shot at a 10-15 year period of consistent winning and playoff berths than be under the control of a GM and HC who are under win-now pressure and face the Florham Park revolving door, again, just like every head coach since Parcells.

The teams that win consistently and are in the group of so-called "great organizations" have a franchise quarterback, have a competent GM, and have a HC that molds a team in his image around his philosophies.  That's what the Jets are committed to, and Adam Gase is that head coach.  The tough times he has been experiencing are expected after what Idzik and Maccagnan did to his roster.  In 3 years, you'll be very pleased with Gase.  Right now, try shutting up and paying attention to what your owner is telling you instead of acting like an impatient, spoiled child.

SAR I

[TMAC]

Chris Johnson's stupidity is so egregious that he could actually keep Adam Gase as HC even if they go 0-16.  But even if Gase is fired (eventually, he will be, as we all know), why should we believe that CJ will make a good choice re: new HC.  The root of the problem is ownership.  As long as the Johnsons own this team, they will suck.

[Greensleeves]

12 hours ago, jgb said:

I am fully aware that we will win the exact number of games to be both a disgrace yet also miss out on the elite QB prospects 

We don't need a QB, we need elite playmakers. Sam's last game, without any decent weapons, graded out pretty high. He has no-one to get open right now down the field. The line is improved and will keep getting better - I hope. We can't fix everything all at once. The line keeps Sam from getting killed - now everyone is mad he has no weapons. Well, 5 of those guys are hurt, plus Bell. Sam's day should have been even better if Herndon catches that pass that hit him in the chest. His late TD was a great throw. Get this guy a top receiver in round one - pair him with Mims and Crowder and we should be way better. Of course we may need another guy calling the plays and in charge.

[Irish Jet]

18 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Jets fan?  Haven't missed a game since 1978, season ticket holder since 2001, PSL owner since 2010.

I'm not sure why speaking honestly and objectively is stirring any pot.  From my perspective, all you gloom-and-doomers are the ones stirring things up, not those of us who understand what the team is trying to do.

Our ownership has made it abundantly clear that they are rebuilding the hard way, finally, after decades of get-rich-quick schemes that aren't sustainable.  I would much rather have a shot at a 10-15 year period of consistent winning and playoff berths than be under the control of a GM and HC who are under win-now pressure and face the Florham Park revolving door, again, just like every head coach since Parcells.

The teams that win consistently and are in the group of so-called "great organizations" have a franchise quarterback, have a competent GM, and have a HC that molds a team in his image around his philosophies.  That's what the Jets are committed to, and Adam Gase is that head coach.  The tough times he has been experiencing are expected after what Idzik and Maccagnan did to his roster.  In 3 years, you'll be very pleased with Gase.  Right now, try shutting up and paying attention to what your owner is telling you instead of acting like an impatient, spoiled child.

SAR I

Offensive genius they said.

[ScarletKnight89]

Sam needs to develop this year as a QB in order to make the GM believe in him and not draft another QB in the next draft. The problem for Sam is that he's going to have to do it with Gase because he's not going anywhere this year from the looks of it.

[WowOhWow]

15 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Jets fan?  Haven't missed a game since 1978, season ticket holder since 2001, PSL owner since 2010.

I'm not sure why speaking honestly and objectively is stirring any pot.  From my perspective, all you gloom-and-doomers are the ones stirring things up, not those of us who understand what the team is trying to do.

Our ownership has made it abundantly clear that they are rebuilding the hard way, finally, after decades of get-rich-quick schemes that aren't sustainable.  I would much rather have a shot at a 10-15 year period of consistent winning and playoff berths than be under the control of a GM and HC who are under win-now pressure and face the Florham Park revolving door, again, just like every head coach since Parcells.

The teams that win consistently and are in the group of so-called "great organizations" have a franchise quarterback, have a competent GM, and have a HC that molds a team in his image around his philosophies.  That's what the Jets are committed to, and Adam Gase is that head coach.  The tough times he has been experiencing are expected after what Idzik and Maccagnan did to his roster.  In 3 years, you'll be very pleased with Gase.  Right now, try shutting up and paying attention to what your owner is telling you instead of acting like an impatient, spoiled child.

SAR I

Explain to me exactly what gives you any hope that in three years we'll be happy with Gase?  What in his track record (facts, not emotion) gives you any confidence?

While we're at it, let's spend a minute on our ownership.  The same group that let Macc run a draft only to fire him, and hired Gase after he gutted Miami.  Rebuilding the hard way is defined by having a coach that is incapable.  That's what you're missing.

Gase is an incredibly odd hill for you to die on.  Good luck with that.  This is a league where coaching and GM ability make a huge difference.  I believe we have the GM.  I believe our coach is a huge impediment to our rebuild.  

Buy hey, seems like you're bought into CJ and his ownership and Gase and his coaching.  There's a sucker born every minute...

[The Crusher]

12 hours ago, RoadFan said:

The ultimate humiliation is yet to come...

The Jets go 2-14, have the #1 overall pick, and Trevor Lawrence says he absolutely will NOT sign with the New York Jets.

The franchise has to trade the pick, or draft him, and then are forced to trade him during the draft.

Or worse yet?!?!  The Jets draft him,  call his "bluff," and look even more foolish when he refuses to play until he is traded and get even less value.

Or he signs up for one more year of college and gets a minor in cosmetology and skin care. Stay pretty Trevor, Stay away from the Jets. 

[jgb]

55 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

We don't need a QB, we need elite playmakers. Sam's last game, without any decent weapons, graded out pretty high. He has no-one to get open right now down the field. The line is improved and will keep getting better - I hope. We can't fix everything all at once. The line keeps Sam from getting killed - now everyone is mad he has no weapons. Well, 5 of those guys are hurt, plus Bell. Sam's day should have been even better if Herndon catches that pass that hit him in the chest. His late TD was a great throw. Get this guy a top receiver in round one - pair him with Mims and Crowder and we should be way better. Of course we may need another guy calling the plays and in charge.

You can hold out hope if you want, I don't fault you for it. But there is no evidence that Sam possesses the consistency to be a FQB. The value of the lost opportunity cost is much greater than the value of the wildest optimistic expectations for Sam multiplied by the probability that he will achieve it.

Jets need a new QB.

[ageingjetfan]

13 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

This will never be an attractive if we keep the same structure. Ownership needs to be completely out of the picture. No media appearances, press conferences or having the coach and GM both report to them. This is their punishment for f*cking things up so bad and being clueless. Nothing will matter until that happens. 

I enjoy reading your posts but what billion dollar business does not have its talking heads report to the owners?

[SAR I]

37 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Offensive genius they said.

If you are one of those who doesn't look at the injury report and doesn't look at Mike Maccagnan's draft history, there is no point in talking to you.

No one said "offensive genius, can take the worst roster in the NFL repeatedly crippled by injuries and make them play like Air Coryell".  If you were dumb enough to think that, that's on you, go look in the mirror and throw rocks at what you see.

SAR I

[JustInFudge]

Never really understood the "attraction" piece of the equation when firing a Head Coach.  It's attractive because there is only 32 of them in the world.  If a team is looking for a new head coach, more often than not they have a high draft pick so I dont see that being some unbelievably attractive feature.  Inherit a franchise Qb, sure, very attractive.  Cap space?  Nah, any GM worth his salt can be creative with the cap to make it work.

 

 

[ChuckkieB]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

Gase isn’t getting fired.  He is our long-term solution.   

You’re going to have to man-up and grow a pair.  There is no quick-fix.  

SAR I

Masterclass in trolling, I'll give you that.

Doesn't your BMW need a cleaning or something? Run along now...

[Creepy Lurker]

11 minutes ago, ageingjetfan said:

I enjoy reading your posts but what billion dollar business does not have its talking heads report to the owners?

You always report to the owner  but it should be done behind closed doors and the owner should stay away from the spotlight and media. The GM and coach both reporting to the owner is pretty common in the NFL but the Jets have too change this to show that the culture and structure is changing. No more owner meddling and the GM runs the show. Coaches wouldn’t be as hesitant to come here. Shake things up.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, dbatesman said:

If Douglas is as highly regarded as people say (and particularly if we have a real shot at Lawrence), it'll have some appeal, but the roster is world-historically bad and the Johnsons are halfwits. Tough to see us being anyone's top choice.

All true, but there are things to consider:

• there are only so many of these HC jobs that open up, and it isn’t too frequent that it’s with a team that’s coming off serious success (e.g. SD after they fired Marty...to then waste the league’s best young roster on Coach Pockmark lol). Candidates know they have to take a job when the iron’s hot, or you can get something of a reputation that there’s obviously some reason no one hires you as HC year after year. One down year as coordinator, or your HC gets fired and you get thrown out with the bathwater, and just like that you missed your chance.
• Darnold will still be seen by many as an ultra-talented QB who just needs better coaching + another year of experience + another year of roster improvement
• There’s always an attraction to a team coming off major disappointment: it’s a lot easier to look better. The Jets sucked last year, but even a bad team can go 7-9 and convince so many that the team’s coaching is on an upward trajectory since it’s still a marked improvement over going 3-13. Well we’re headed for 3-13 the way things look now...
• While it’s not enough to succeed yet, there is some young talent on the team (Darnold aside, since he’s very eye-of-beholder). When Bowles was fired the cupboard was so bare & the only names anyone gave a damn about were Darnold and a freaking safety. The rest of the names were huge disappointment draft picks (Leo W, D.Lee) and FAs (T.Johnson). I mean the team needed 5 starting offensive linemen. 
• If they fire Gase after just 2 years - both of them billed as rebuilding years not contending years, like after firing Bowles after 2018 (however deservedly) - then firing the next HC will be a much bigger PR problem if they fire the next one in less than 4 years. So a 2021 new HC won’t likely get the rug ripped out from under him quickly (which is surely how Gase will see it). Quickly fire a HC once, then it’s on that failure coach; do it twice, then this is a disloyal/fickle front office who makes promises it won’t see through.

The fans (rightly) see the Johnson family as a root cause of failures. But it’s less likely that a HC will see it that way. Whether it’s a Johnson or an ex-GM/HC as head of football operations, Douglas has at least 3-4 more years as GM either way. Johnsons are a problem to fans because of the HCs they hire, but the HC himself won’t see it that way. 

[jetophile]

13 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Still have the brothers Grimm running things

That would actually be pretty awesome. What we have is Tweedledee and Tweedledumb. <== Not a typo.

And then there's always that rabbit hole thing . . . otherwise known as HELL.

[SAR I]

36 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

Explain to me exactly what gives you any hope that in three years we'll be happy with Gase?  What in his track record (facts, not emotion) gives you any confidence?

The 1-7 start proved Gase can handle adversity and the 6-2 finish proved Gase can adapt and rally while not losing the locker room.  Massively important traits in a young HC.  With the bad roster he inherited and the injuries he was hit with, it was just about the only thing Gase could do to impress me and he did.

38 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

While we're at it, let's spend a minute on our ownership.  The same group that let Macc run a draft only to fire him, and hired Gase after he gutted Miami.  Rebuilding the hard way is defined by having a coach that is incapable.  That's what you're missing.

Gase had similar back luck with injuries and a similarly dysfunctional organization in Miami.  The one year where he had a healthy quarterback, Miami unexpectedly went 10-6 and made the playoffs.  Combine that with what he accomplished last year with our 6-2 finish and I like what I see.

38 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

Gase is an incredibly odd hill for you to die on.  Good luck with that.  This is a league where coaching and GM ability make a huge difference.  I believe we have the GM.  I believe our coach is a huge impediment to our rebuild.  

The only way a downtrodden and disrespected organization like the Jets gets a shot at a potentially great HC is to find one who didn't work out elsewhere and give him a shot here.  We are not an attractive destination.  We are NFL head coaching Siberia.  I applaud hiring an experienced head coach from the offensive side of the ball.  And I'm not giving up on him because I can objectively see the sh*tty hand he's been dealt by Maccagnan, illness, injuries, and the media.  And I like his attitude.  I like his f-u demeanor.  This team needs that kind of enema.

43 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

Buy hey, seems like you're bought into CJ and his ownership and Gase and his coaching.  There's a sucker born every minute...

Christopher Johnson is trying to do it like the successful franchises do it.  Commit to a front office and coaching staff.  Let them have the time to tear it down and build it up the right way.  We are in the abyss right now and it has nothing to do with your opinions of Adam Gase.  It has everything to do with Idzik, Ryan, Bowles, Maccagnan, and the sh-t show they were running here for the last decade.

SAR I

[jgb]

23 minutes ago, ageingjetfan said:

I enjoy reading your posts but what billion dollar business does not have its talking heads report to the owners?

Simple fix. Buying an NFL team should not be just about the money. I wish the League would require prospective owners to be self-made and demonstrate a personal track record of success. No more scions of great men long since dead who have achieved nothing.

[munchmemory]

Same garbage every time we're thinking of getting rid of a HC.  "Holy bonkers, kids.  This team is so  totally loaded with unused talent that the next Jet HC is definitely headed to the Super Bowl.  I guarantee it.  Keen, huh?!"

[SAR I]

26 minutes ago, JiF said:

Never really understood the "attraction" piece of the equation when firing a Head Coach.  It's attractive because there is only 32 of them in the world.  If a team is looking for a new head coach, more often than not they have a high draft pick so I dont see that being some unbelievably attractive feature.  Inherit a franchise Qb, sure, very attractive.  Cap space?  Nah, any GM worth his salt can be creative with the cap to make it work.

You are describing NFL HC candidates Number 10 thru 20 on the annual list.  The decent coordinators and minor college guys who are liked by their current teams, flattered to be interviewed, and wind up costing a needy team 3 years before he gets canned.

NFL HC candidates Number 1 thru 5, different story, they can go anywhere they want.  And they are already great coordinators or great college head coaches who are just adored where they work, they can stay put with confidence rather than take a bad NFL gig certain to end their careers.

Adam Gase serves two very important functions depending on your perspective:

If you think Gase might be a good HC, you leave him alone through these tough rebuilding times and let him prove himself worthy.

If you think Gase is a lousy HC, you leave him alone through these tough rebuilding times until you have built a very good roster on the cusp of winning and can attract a Top 5 candidate.

Moving off Gase now accomplishes neither of these goals.  We'll wind up with Bowles or Edwards again, guys who were never HC material but were the only ones who would take the job.

SAR I

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Same garbage every time we're thinking of getting rid of a HC.  "Holy bonkers, kids.  This team is so  totally loaded with unused talent that the next Jet HC is definitely headed to the Super Bowl.  I guarantee it.  Keen, huh?!"

I think that’s overstating by a lot, but it’s definitely got more talent than when Gase interviewed here. Not to mention doubling up on 1st round picks for the upcoming 2 seasons and not being cap-strapped into sitting out free agency. And yes, if he is still what he was before he basically took 2 years off, they will be getting back Mosley.

The big deciding factor might be whether or not the team is still wedded to Darnold if he has a terrible year all season long, and we are sitting with the #1 pick this coming April, or if a new HC will have to give him another year tryout (when a year after that the same replacement opportunity may not be there).

A HC isn’t going to be the GM, but I take for granted who’s going to be his QB is a major part of the decision. It’s very possible that Darnold’s presence was a far greater HC draw after year 1 than it’ll be after year 3. 

The real solution is to not get worked up, and to just presume it’ll be a disaster every year. You ought to know better by now. 

[SAR I]

26 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

Masterclass in trolling, I'll give you that.

Doesn't your BMW need a cleaning or something? Run along now...

Pay attention to what your owner is telling you.  This is a long-haul strategy.  Gase and Douglas are the long-term pairing of two guys completely in sync on how to build a winning culture and a consistently competitive team.  They knew the sh-t show they were inheriting, they and their owner are prepared for the abyss we are in now, they are keeping their jobs for 3-5 years minimum. 

Don't bully the messenger.

SAR I

[Matt39]

The Johnson's set silly parameters for their coaches and front office hires which prevents either job from ever being appealing if you are actually looking to win. Countless guys have turned down interviews over the years- Mccarthy wanted too much money apparently, Rhule wanted his own staff etc. Cant have that. Window dressing with hiring Mckinsey or Cassserly to pretend they're taking the search seriously and they end up with guys no one was looking to hire to begin with.

Gase gets Maccagnan fired, calls up his buddy who's parting ways with Phily and lets him know they have a free ride for at least 3 years and guaranteed millions. For guys who have no other options sure it's appealing I guess as you can set up your kids college funds and not have to worry ever again.

Look at the roster right now. It's abysmal. You have the safety from Seattle saying the practices are a joke. Douglas talking about "building the best culture in football" BS. Dont peddle that when the highest paid player quits and you cant even practice hard. The Jets are running a massive con operation right now. The first two games were not professional football.