When we fire Gase, the Jets job next year is a good one

[jgb]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

Not an act. Not all Jets fans are weepy little girls. Get onboard with the long term plan already and understand that no head coach could succeed with the amount of injuries we have seen in the past 13 months.  

If you want to be mad and yell at someone, try God.  He’s the one pulling muscles and breaking bones.  

SAR I

In it to win it!

[section314]

Let's face the facts here. The Johnsons have owned this team for 20 years, so we have way more than a sample size to predict outcomes. In that time span, Al Groh, as a favor to Parcells, for making his career, took the job for one year, and got the hell out of Dodge for UVA. The next four guys, Herm, Mangini, Rex and Bowles, were position coaches or coordinators, none with any HC experience. The current guy, Gase, was just fired, and probably would still be looking for work, or if he was hired, certainly not as a HC. Ironically, the only proven, successful, winning coach that ever really wanted this job, McCarthy, was sent on his merry way, his services not needed. Even two up and coming college coaches passed, one never interviewing and the other more than likely using the Jets to get a bigger payday from his school.

          Let's please stop kidding ourselves. This is not a good job, not even close, if you are talking about attracting  A/B+ guys. For them, this is a lousy, career threatening job. Until there is an ownership change, and the stench of dysfunction and incompetence is removed, it will continue to attract the C-/D type guys that we constantly hire. Under the current structure, nobody worthwhile, who could really make a difference, would come within 10 miles of this place.

[Sperm Edwards]

29 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

You always report to the owner  but it should be done behind closed doors and the owner should stay away from the spotlight and media. The GM and coach both reporting to the owner is pretty common in the NFL but the Jets have too change this to show that the culture and structure is changing. No more owner meddling and the GM runs the show. Coaches wouldn’t be as hesitant to come here. Shake things up.

 

I don’t think that’s the problem. The problem is which guys they hire, not meddling. 

Like I said above: Douglas is already here, and for better or worse (hopefully better) he’s going to be for at least 2-3 more seasons. So that’s baked into the cake whether the Johnsons are frontmen or not.

The only other hire there is to make is the HC. A good HC isn’t going to see Woody or Chris Johnson’s inability to hire a good HC as a reason to not come here; that’s putting the cart before the horse. The problem will be which guy they hire, not what they do or don’t do if they hire the right guy. 

[ChuckkieB]

7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Pay attention to what your owner is telling you.  This is a long-haul strategy.  Gase and Douglas are the long-term pairing of two guys completely in sync on how to build a winning culture and a consistently competitive team.  They knew the sh-t show they were inheriting, they and their owner are prepared for the abyss we are in now, they are keeping their jobs for 3-5 years minimum. 

Don't bully the messenger.

SAR I

I am paying attention.  The owners are responsible for terrible hire after terrible hire, installing a ridiculous GM / HC / owner hierarchy, and failing to recognize, admit, and correct their mistakes.  They have instead chosen to sit on their hands, double down on their stupidity, and give garbage HC's and GM's way too much time to prove their incompetence.  The Johnson's aren't prepared for the abyss the team is in now.  They CAUSED the abyss.  

But you go ahead and continuing your trolling.  You're damn good at it.

[Jack Straw]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

Not an act. Not all Jets fans are weepy little girls. Get onboard with the long term plan already and understand that no head coach could succeed with the amount of injuries we have seen in the past 13 months.  

If you want to be mad and yell at someone, try God.  He’s the one pulling muscles and breaking bones.  

SAR I

Yes, god designed an offense that refuses to throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.

[SAR I]

6 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

I am paying attention. 

Let's see about that.

6 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

The owners are responsible for terrible hire after terrible hire,

With a healthy quarterback under center, the Johnson's had 10 winning or .500 seasons in their first 11 years of ownership.  Things are bad now because 10 years of competing for the playoffs ultimately leads you to 10 years of sucking.  It's how the NFL works without a franchise quarterback.

8 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

installing a ridiculous GM / HC / owner hierarchy, 

....that several winning organizations also deploy.  They are two different positions with two different skillsets, it makes no sense to be forced to fire your HC if you don't like your GM and vise-versa.  It's 2020, not 1970.

10 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

and failing to recognize, admit, and correct their mistakes. 

Huh?  When Woody stepped aside he and Christopher announced a rebuild and began that process immediately, clearing out the weed culture in the lockerroom, getting rid of the HC, getting rid of the GM.  If anything, the Johnson's have been too quick on the trigger, admitting mistakes and firing GM's and HC's to the point where we are second to the Browns on the NFL dysfunction list.

11 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

The Johnson's aren't prepared for the abyss the team is in now.  They CAUSED the abyss. 

You can say that of any owner.

The way to win a Super Bowl isn't the get-rich-quick schemes they deployed during the Ryan era.  The way to do it is like the Saints, Chiefs, or Steelers.  You pick a GM and a HC, you give them control, you wind up with 10-15 years of being competitive and you break through for exactly 1 or 2 Super Bowl appearances and 1 Super Bowl victory and consider yourself fulfilled for the rest of your life.  All those Drew Brees Saints years, 1 Super Bowl.  All those Peyton Manning Colts years, 1 Super Bowl.  Its how its done.

16 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

But you go ahead and continuing your trolling.  You're damn good at it.

Trying to talk sense into a bunch of Eeyore's in all their glory because of all the losing isn't trolling.  It's charity.  Maybe I'll save one of you.

SAR I

[Larz]

[Larz]

Bad owner 

belicheat 

bills

It’s a sh*t job 

[Creepy Lurker]

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don’t think that’s the problem. The problem is which guys they hire, not meddling. 

Like I said above: Douglas is already here, and for better or worse (hopefully better) he’s going to be for at least 2-3 more seasons. So that’s baked into the cake whether the Johnsons are frontmen or not.

The only other hire there is to make is the HC. A good HC isn’t going to see Woody or Chris Johnson’s inability to hire a good HC as a reason to not come here; that’s putting the cart before the horse. The problem will be which guy they hire, not what they do or don’t do if they hire the right guy. 

I get what you are saying but feel the stigma of the Johnson’s scares off coaches and some people won’t even consider the Jets as a destination. Plus, sometimes change for the sake of change is good and this would just be a structure change.

Joe Douglas is the man that can make this a place that coaches and players want to come to. All the volatility of this organization would go away if Joe Douglas was given a vote of confidence and they reinforced it by making him the true GM that hires the coach or true head of VP operations.
 

It’s perception and it wouldn’t help all NFL teams. I think it would help the Jets and make our specific unappealing situation, look much better and like we are honestly trying to turn things around. I cannot see at all how it would hurt so wouldn’t it be worth a shot?

[jgb]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

Let's face the facts here. The Johnsons have owned this team for 20 years, so we have way more than a sample size to predict outcomes. In that time span, Al Groh, as a favor to Parcells, for making his career, took the job for one year, and got the hell out of Dodge for UVA. The next four guys, Herm, Mangini, Rex and Bowles, were position coaches or coordinators, none with any HC experience. The current guy, Gase, was just fired, and probably would still be looking for work, or if he was hired, certainly not as a HC. Ironically, the only proven, successful, winning coach that ever really wanted this job, McCarthy, was sent on his merry way, his services not needed. Even two up and coming college coaches passed, one never interviewing and the other more than likely using the Jets to get a bigger payday from his school.

          Let's please stop kidding ourselves. This is not a good job, not even close, if you are talking about attracting  A/B+ guys. For them, this is a lousy, career threatening job. Until there is an ownership change, and the stench of dysfunction and incompetence is removed, it will continue to attract the C-/D type guys that we constantly hire. Under the current structure, nobody worthwhile, who could really make a difference, would come within 10 miles of this place.

We finally had a legit proven HC fall into our laps because of a fluke of fate in that the annual game of coaching musical chairs stopped before McCarthy found a seat (coaches with options don't come here) and we nevertheless screwed it up. Failing to hire McCarthy was akin to striking out in tee ball. Doesn't get any easier than that.

That said, the happiest guy in the world that we didn't hire Mike McCarthy is Mike McCarthy.

[SAR I]

57 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

Yes, god designed an offense that refuses to throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.

Because our new WR's are hurt and our old WR's are hurt and the ones forced into starting roles can't get open.  Because they aren't starters.  They are development players.  Or over the hill veterans.

(Shh.  Don't tell anyone.  They like it better when they blame Gase for acts of God.)

SAR I

[Jetsfan80]

16 minutes ago, jgb said:

Failing to hire McCarthy was akin to striking out in tee ball. Doesn't get any easier than that.

 

You spelled Kliff Kingsbury wrong.

We also would have accepted Matt Rhule.

[section314]

16 minutes ago, jgb said:

We finally had a legit proven HC fall into our laps because of a fluke of fate in that the annual game of coaching musical chairs stopped before McCarthy found a seat (coaches with options don't come here) and we nevertheless screwed it up. Failing to hire McCarthy was akin to striking out in tee ball. Doesn't get any easier than that.

That said, the happiest guy in the world that we didn't hire Mike McCarthy is Mike McCarthy.

Very true. So so sad, but very true.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You spelled Kliff Kingsbury wrong.

We also would have accepted Matt Rhule.

I have no faith in the Jets to correctly identify the next "hot" HC prospect. At this point, we should stick to boring and proven and limit the downside.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, jgb said:

I have no faith in the Jets to correctly identify the next "hot" HC prospect. At this point, we should stick to boring and proven and limit the downside.

Doug Pederson or Greg Roman, please.

[pointman]

10 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

The same Bosa who had yet another season ending injury?  That is EXACTLY the type of guy we are usually unlucky enough to nab.  Rookie of the year. Yaaaay!  Member Sheldon Richardson?   Seasons and careers are long man.  I look at Bosa and I see Steve Emtman. 

The NFL is a place where big injuries happen. You risk it with any player. Bosa had 9 sacks in year 1. NINE. Our Quinnen Williams had.. less. With how things are going, Bosa is still the better pick. I love Sheldon Richardson. His bad attitude, his "Metlife Monster" moniker, and his hustling down the field to chase the play down. I say that to say.. no clue why we are talking about Sheldon. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Doug Pederson or Greg Roman, please.

There will be competition for those guys, which takes us out.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

There will be competition for those guys, which takes us out.

I'm banking on the Joe Douglas connection to Baltimore and Philly making one of them happen.  Don't take this from me already.  

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm banking on the Joe Douglas connection to Baltimore and Philly making one of them happen.  Don't take this from me already.  

Didn't want to tell my daughter she wasn't getting a unicorn for her birthday, either.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, jgb said:

Didn't want to tell my daughter she wasn't getting a unicorn for her birthday, either.

THEY ARE REAL DAMMIT

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

THEY ARE REAL DAMMIT

You have a better chance of seeing one than a Jets championship, so there is that.

[section314]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm banking on the Joe Douglas connection to Baltimore and Philly making one of them happen.  Don't take this from me already.  

Unless the leopard has truly changed his spots, JD will have zero say in any new HC.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, section314 said:

Unless the leopard has truly changed his spots, JD will have zero say in any new HC.

The hope is that the Johnson's are done with wanting the responsibility of making the tough decisions, and decide to lean heavily, or entirely, on Douglas.  

There's no evidence yet that that will be the case, just hope.  But maybe, just maybe, the owners decide the best thing to do is let JD run the show.  

[section314]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

The hope is that the Johnson's are done with wanting the responsibility of making the tough decisions, and decide to lean heavily, or entirely, on Douglas.  

There's no evidence yet that that will be the case, just hope.  But maybe, just maybe, the owners decide the best thing to do is let JD run the show.  

I sure hope so. Maybe was a condition JD demanded to sign his deal? But since the league probably would have to ok such a deal, you would think something like that would leak out to guys like Schefter, Rappoport etc.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, section314 said:

I sure hope so. Maybe was a condition JD demanded to sign his deal? But since the league probably would have to ok such a deal, you would think something like that would leak out to guys like Schefter, Rappoport etc.

The mere fact that JD was able to get a 6-year contract speaks to the large amount of power he was granted already.  He's not getting fired until 2023 under that contract, if he ever does get fired.  

Douglas was the first hire under the Johnson's that was not really made by the Johnson's.  Gase was the driving force behind Douglas coming here.  Maybe this will finally give the Johnson's a clue that they suck at hiring people and should let others handle the roster and the hires.  

Probably a lost cause and things will always suck as long as the Johnson's are here, but what else can we hope for?

[southparkcpa]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

THEY ARE REAL DAMMIT

I had you for a My Little Pony guy.

 

How bout the job Beane is doing. Good for him!!!

[derp]

I hate to be this guy but if you replace “Gase” with “Bowles” this is what we were saying two years ago when we thought the Jets had a franchise QB...and look how that turned out.

Now hopefully Douglas is a big selling point and guys like Mims and perhaps Perine and Clark have opportunities to show some things over the course of the season. But I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s a good job.

[jgb]

23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The mere fact that JD was able to get a 6-year contract speaks to the large amount of power he was granted already.  He's not getting fired until 2023 under that contract, if he ever does get fired.  

Douglas was the first hire under the Johnson's that was not really made by the Johnson's.  Gase was the driving force behind Douglas coming here.  Maybe this will finally give the Johnson's a clue that they suck at hiring people and should let others handle the roster and the hires.  

Probably a lost cause and things will always suck as long as the Johnson's are here, but what else can we hope for?

Which side are you on? ? 

Seriously though, the JD hire at least doesn’t smell like an obvious fail. That’s an improvement. Maybe Johnsons got lucky and will be smart enough to let the man do his job. That’s all I got.

[JETSALLDAY24X]

16 hours ago, WowOhWow said:

Let's assume Gase gets fired and the team is very bad.  We will have a ton of very high draft picks next year.  A ton of cap space.  We could have a LT that is the real deal.  We could also have a QB with a lot of potential, starting NFL experience and who is still very young.  A GM who seems to know what he's doing.

I think the Jets job would be about as attractive an opportunity as it's been in an extremely long time.  

The key thing here is to fire Gase and get him as far from Sam as possible.  

There's hope here if we get rid of this clown.  If we don't fire him this year and we go into next season we will have squandered a huge opportunity...

Yeah. A team with a regressing qb going into year 4 and holes all over the field is real enticing! Coaches are gonna be line up around the block to interview to come here. 

[Maxman]

16 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Knowing these owners, we're probably stuck with the Gase-hole for another year.  He does have a brilliant offensive mind, after all.

There is no way they are brining Gase back. This fan base hates him. The stadium is empty and they need to sell tickets next year.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

There is no way they are brining Gase back. This fan base hates him. The stadium is empty and they need to sell tickets next year.

What's the deal with Macc and Bowles?  How long are we paying them for?  And how many years does Gase have after this one?  I think that will figure into the decision.

[Jetsfan80]

17 minutes ago, jgb said:

Which side are you on? ? 

The side that says to Gase "thanks for ridding us of Macc and bringing us a competent GM" before throwing him off the moving train.  

[Maxman]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

What's the deal with Macc and Bowles?  How long are we paying them for?  And how many years does Gase have after this one?  I think that will figure into the decision.

They will owe Bowles and Macc nothing.  When Gase gets fired at the end of this year he will be owed two more seasons.

Christopher Johnson should have to pay him from his share for making such a bad hire.

[Jetsfan80]

21 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

How bout the job Beane is doing. Good for him!!!

Indeed.  Super proud of him.  Got to shake his hand a couple years back at a UNCW Basketball game, when he was honored at halftime.  I congratulated him for all of his success to date. 

When I told him I am a Jets fan, he offered his condolences and said "Well, we need to change that!"

Wish I could, Brandon.  Wish I could.

[southparkcpa]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Indeed.  Super proud of him.  Got to shake his hand a couple years back at a UNCW Basketball game, when he was honored at halftime.  I congratulated him for all of his success to date. 

When I told him I am a Jets fan, he offered his condolences and said "Well, we need to change that!"

When the Bills play the Jets, if we EVER get competitive, I'm gonna hit him up for free tickets in Buffalo.  I'm too embarrassed at this point. He worked for me in 1996 and I hired his sister in 1995, went to her wedding, traveled with her a bunch on business.  Haven't seen him since but we are "Linkedin" contacts and his sister and I grab lunch once a year or so to stay in touch.