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The 4th and 1


Maxman
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This happened over and over. They were terrified to let Darnold step back and let a play develop.

Like 6 or 7 times we surrendered possession either by running it/running a quick pass well short of the line and then the fiasco that was the field goal down 24-3 in the 4th. Just pathetic game management and no faith shown whatsoever in the QB. It's not like Sam looked particularly off either. He did pretty well with what he was given. Gase is worse than the worst. A cancer to an organisation. 

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2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

scenario: Sam gets hurt calling an audible...

show me how its Gases fault.... GO!!!

Gase insist Sam wears a specific mouthpiece that makes his voice sound like Peyton and the quick vocal burst of “ Omaha” causer his tongue to fail wildly and he sprained it. Off to the pup list for Darnold. 

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8 hours ago, Maxman said:

This sums it up for me. I watched the game with my son who was a Center in high school and an offensive tackle in college. On the 4th and 1 he kept saying they need to run a QB sneak here. Just take the yard, nobody is lined up over center

Here is what Adam Gase had to say about it.

Rich Cimini, ESPN: A two-parter on Sam, on the fourth-and-one play, does he have the freedom if he sees something, to call a quarterback sneak?
Not on that play he didn’t.

Rich Cimini, ESPN: Why not? What’s the explanation?
It’s my call.

Rich Cimini, ESPN: It’s not like a sweeping thing, it’s just that particular play in that situation he did not have the freedom?
There’s sometimes that things like that are built in, and he knows he can go to it. And there’s other times where he’s going to call the play that’s run. If we execute the play, we’ve got the first down. We didn’t execute it.

Al Iannazzone, Newsday: Looking back, I know you would have had the one yard on fourth-and-one if the Mike (linebacker) was blocked. Is there anything now that maybe you would have done differently? Obviously, you said there was a play you wanted to run but you couldn’t. 
I originally was calling a pass on third-and-one, and unfortunately the pass was for BP (Breshad Perriman) and he was out of the game, so I went to a different call. The third-and-one, I felt like with what they played we were in good position. We took a bad angle to block one of the DBs and he slipped through and that’s what kind of stopped us. And then we had another opportunity on fourth-and-one and we’ve got to anticipate what they did and then we’ve got to make sure that we do a good job blocking the linebacker and it’s going to be a really good play, and we didn’t do that.

Same here.  I'm off to the next man up as we hear all the time.  

Its great having a bag of tricks but you have to know how and when to use them.

I remember being told a long time ago that some really good coordinators never make it as HCs because it take a lot more nerve to make certain calls as a HC than it does as an OC.  I think we have that right here.  For whatever reason its not working and im now thinking its time to move on.

We deserve more than what we're getting.  

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7 hours ago, SAR I said:

SAR says that Gase is protecting Sam because Sam didn’t see the alignment and change the play when he should have.  Gase takes all the hits from the media anyway, so he might as well take one for Darnold when he can. 

Darnold had a much better day and game than Gase did.

Gase doesnt get off with that excuse

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Gase is a control freak, running HIS PLAYS. This is a problenm. The idea is to get your team downfield and score. if that means you trust your QB to audible there, that's the play, not what ever POS Gase called. 

Worry also is you're beating down Darnold. Is he that bad, or is this offense by Gase's design so bad that you can't tell. The Ryan Tannehill thing right now is scary. There's a decision that will have to be made about Darnold and this may not be any useful data because it's all so f__ed up. 

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8 hours ago, Maxman said:

This sums it up for me. I watched the game with my son who was a Center in high school and an offensive tackle in college. On the 4th and 1 he kept saying they need to run a QB sneak here. Just take the yard, nobody is lined up over center

Here is what Adam Gase had to say about it.

Rich Cimini, ESPN: A two-parter on Sam, on the fourth-and-one play, does he have the freedom if he sees something, to call a quarterback sneak?
Not on that play he didn’t.

Rich Cimini, ESPN: Why not? What’s the explanation?
It’s my call.

Rich Cimini, ESPN: It’s not like a sweeping thing, it’s just that particular play in that situation he did not have the freedom?
There’s sometimes that things like that are built in, and he knows he can go to it. And there’s other times where he’s going to call the play that’s run. If we execute the play, we’ve got the first down. We didn’t execute it.

Al Iannazzone, Newsday: Looking back, I know you would have had the one yard on fourth-and-one if the Mike (linebacker) was blocked. Is there anything now that maybe you would have done differently? Obviously, you said there was a play you wanted to run but you couldn’t. 
I originally was calling a pass on third-and-one, and unfortunately the pass was for BP (Breshad Perriman) and he was out of the game, so I went to a different call. The third-and-one, I felt like with what they played we were in good position. We took a bad angle to block one of the DBs and he slipped through and that’s what kind of stopped us. And then we had another opportunity on fourth-and-one and we’ve got to anticipate what they did and then we’ve got to make sure that we do a good job blocking the linebacker and it’s going to be a really good play, and we didn’t do that.

All kidding aside if I was the owner of this franchise I would fire Gase on the spot upon hearing this nonsense.  For a guy who has had little success as a head coach, he’s so f***ing arrogant when it comes to his play calling.   He just blames the players for all his f**k ups.  No wonder a lot of his players dislike him.   There is zero future with this guy, none.   

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7 hours ago, Losmeister said:

THIS IS NOT A DEFENSE OF GASE

but I DO have a serious question...for all Sam apologists.

Which is it?

A) Sam is a grown ass man who should able to call his own audibles who shopuld be given as much freedom in this (or any other) offense as possible?

BEE) Sam is a baby who needs to be coddled and protected and whose performance is NEVER his own responsibility and we must make sure we don't hurt his feelings, or ever threaten him with any REAL competition for his 1 out of 32 in the world spot as an NFL starting QB,  cos we may harm his not fully developed pysche?

if A, what body of evidence exists that tells you his reading of defenses supports your decision?

COs, if he CAN??? I'm down...   consider that I have been calling for the 2 minute offense since 1-7 LAST YEAR.

 

It tells you how much of a control freak Gase is if his #1 QB feels he can't audible ever. How is that teaching him to control a game? What does it tell the other layers about the confidence he has in the QB - or doesn't? It's really an extension of checking down during a play - if the first option isn't there, is he not supposed to go to the next one? This isn't JV football: his QB - although still the second youngest starter in the league, if not the youngest - has played the game for a few years. Sam needs to feel like HE is part of the solution, not just some automaton - and an unsuccessful one at that, or he'll never grow as a QB. Is there any other successful QB who has EVER been barred from making an audible?

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One  thing, making me nuts; Becton is a monster. Why are they so cute running garbage into the middle of the line when Big Ticket is pancaking the living sheet out of whom ever is in front of him. It doesn't need to be complicated. Those between the tackle plays are a waste of a down. Run behind the LT you drafted to do exactly that and keep doing it until they stop you or you play action off of it. 

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How many times did Tom Brady sneak that 4th down?
You run a play and it works once, so you run it again. It fails. So you run it a third time and are surprised it failed? Same thing happened week 1 just not on 4th down. Offensive anything my arse. 
At least give it to Wesco once or go jumbo with an OL as fb or something. Jeez. 

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8 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

Yeah I thought the QB sneak was a gimmie the way the defense was lined up.  Gase forbidding his QB override a play says SOOOO much about what he thinks of Sam.  Oh yeah and there is no QB coach on this team either; another of Gase's judgement calls.  

Gase's ego is a stumbling block this team can't overcome.      

agreed !.. this is where our GM needs to tell our coach he has to get a QB coach... NOW    :ahhh:

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7 hours ago, SAR I said:

SAR says that Gase is protecting Sam because Sam didn’t see the alignment and change the play when he should have.  Gase takes all the hits from the media anyway, so he might as well take one for Darnold when he can. 

I would love for Gase to call out Sam as I think he needs a slap in the face, but whatever Gase is doing with Sam is working as he was a Top 10 PFF QB yesterday. 

SAR I

So after all the hell Gase gets, deservedly so, for calling out units, players etc for plays not working the answer is to kill the QB who all in all played well given what he had to work with?  

Darnold wasn't the problem last Sunday

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5 minutes ago, Bugg said:

One  thing, making me nuts; Becton is a monster. Why are they so cute running garbage into the middle of the line when Big Ticket is pancaking the living sheet out of whom ever is in front of him. It doesn't need to be complicated. Those between the tackle plays are a waste of a down. Run behind the LT you drafted to do exactly that and keep doing it until they stop you or you play action off of it. 

Gase never runs outside the tackles, he’s a stubborn f**k who never changes his approach.  He’s the most predictable play caller in the league.  

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20 minutes ago, Bungaman said:

It tells you how much of a control freak Gase is if his #1 QB feels he can't audible ever. How is that teaching him to control a game? What does it tell the other layers about the confidence he has in the QB - or doesn't? It's really an extension of checking down during a play - if the first option isn't there, is he not supposed to go to the next one? This isn't JV football: his QB - although still the second youngest starter in the league, if not the youngest - has played the game for a few years. Sam needs to feel like HE is part of the solution, not just some automaton - and an unsuccessful one at that, or he'll never grow as a QB. Is there any other successful QB who has EVER been barred from making an audible?

yes. it nfl. not jv. ever see anybody play as bad as sam last year vs pats? he didnt know wtf he was looking at.

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6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Inflexible to the point of being oblivious to criticism.  And it’s unlikely to change anytime soon.

You saw two contrasting offensive philosophies on Sunday.   Gase’s and Shanahan’s.  Gase’s inside zone run game vs. Shanahan’s outside zone run game.   What the 49ers do in their run game is so much more advanced than what the Jets do.  Plus Shanahan may be IMO the best play caller in the league right now.  I love his system and how he sets up his plays.  It would be the perfect system for Darnold, if Sam is done here I would bet he lands in San Francisco to back up and then eventually replace Garappolo.  

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Any coach can make the argument that, on any given play, they’d have been successful if they’d executed. It’s a wonderful way to white-out any/every lapse in judgment.

“If we blocked the mike...”

“If we’d seen & picked up the blitz...” 

“If he’d thrown it to his other read...”

”If he’d shown a little patience...”

”If he’d just run & not been so patient...”

”...then my play was the right one to call there.”

We just didn’t execute, lol. No doubt there’s truth to that in any errant throw, missed block, dropped pass, or route option not run, that ends up in a loss of down or possession. Likewise, plays can’t be called as though the talent level is what one wishes it to be rather than what it is. If Gase was stealing signs and knew for a fact the D was going to line up as they did, of course he’d call something different to exploit it (as would any coach/coordinator). That’s the whole freaking point of giving one’s QB the ability to audible out of something covered, or into something clearly not covered to make the execution easier.

Calling plays is much easier when one has superior talent, and can make anyone who talks a great game look like he can also walk the walk. It seems that’s Adam Gase; just like that was Paul Hackett; just like lots of guys who get it all on paper & can even wow you with their dizzying amount of knowledge if you sit with them, but are still just failures when they’re making the call in real time, with no one managing them from above to swat away the significant percentage of stupid ideas. That’s the problem with lots of “ideas” guys; they think every idea they have is like a work of art. 

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2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Any coach can make the argument that, on any given play, they’d have been successful if they’d executed. It’s a wonderful way to white-out any/every lapse in judgment.

“If we blocked the mike...”

“If we’d seen & picked up the blitz...” 

“If he’d thrown it to his other read...”

”If he’d shown a little patience...”

”If he’d just run & not been so patient...”

”...then my play was the right one to call there.”

We just didn’t execute, lol. No doubt there’s truth to that in any errant throw, missed block, dropped pass, or route option not run, that ends up in a loss of down or possession. Likewise, plays can’t be called as though the talent level is what one wishes it to be rather than what it is. If Gase was stealing signs and knew for a fact the D was going to line up as they did, of course he’d call something different to exploit it (as would any coach/coordinator). That’s the whole freaking point of giving one’s QB the ability to audible out of something covered, or into something clearly not covered to make the execution easier.

Calling plays is much easier when one has superior talent, and can make anyone who talks a great game look like he can also walk the walk. It seems that’s Adam Gase; just like that was Paul Hackett; just like lots of guys who get it all on paper & can even wow you with their dizzying amount of knowledge if you sit with them, but are still just failures when they’re making the call in real time, with no one managing them from above to swat away the significant percentage of stupid ideas. That’s the problem with lots of “ideas” guys; they think every idea they have is like a work of art. 

A combination of shifting blame and inability to admit that something could have been better on his end.  Darnold threw maybe 10 passes through 3 quarters but will stand up and the post game pressers and take all the blame.  Gase blames his coaching failures on missed blocks.

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Any coach can make the argument that, on any given play, they’d have been successful if they’d executed. It’s a wonderful way to white-out any/every lapse in judgment.

“If we blocked the mike...”

“If we’d seen & picked up the blitz...” 

“If he’d thrown it to his other read...”

”If he’d shown a little patience...”

”If he’d just run & not been so patient...”

”...then my play was the right one to call there.”

We just didn’t execute, lol. No doubt there’s truth to that in any errant throw, missed block, dropped pass, or route option not run, that ends up in a loss of down or possession. Likewise, plays can’t be called as though the talent level is what one wishes it to be rather than what it is. If Gase was stealing signs and knew for a fact the D was going to line up as they did, of course he’d call something different to exploit it (as would any coach/coordinator). That’s the whole freaking point of giving one’s QB the ability to audible out of something covered, or into something clearly not covered to make the execution easier.

Calling plays is much easier when one has superior talent, and can make anyone who talks a great game look like he can also walk the walk. It seems that’s Adam Gase; just like that was Paul Hackett; just like lots of guys who get it all on paper & can even wow you with their dizzying amount of knowledge if you sit with them, but are still just failures when they’re making the call in real time, with no one managing them from above to swat away the significant percentage of stupid ideas. That’s the problem with lots of “ideas” guys; they think every idea they have is like a work of art. 

Exactly, it’s also very difficult to execute plays when the defense knows where the ball is going.  Gase does little to mix up what he does.   Every run is between the A or B gap, every pass is with in 10 yards of the LOS.   It’s an incredibly easy offense to defend.  

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6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Exactly, it’s also very difficult to execute plays when the defense knows where the ball is going.  Gase does little to mix up what he does.   Every run is between the A or B gap, every pass is with in 10 yards of the LOS.   It’s an incredibly easy offense to defend.  

It’s almost as if gase is trying to fail on offense so he can use it as a platform to express his frustration with the lack of talent on offense.  And clearly he includes darnold on that list.

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2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

What Shanahan does as well as any coach in the league is get players that fit what he wants to do.  My guess is that he would get a hell of a lot more out of them than Gase is currently.  

again, i am not a gase fan...

shanny got to coach julio jones/ryan/freeman

kittle/mostet/breida/freeman

 

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1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

again, i am not a gase fan...

shanny got to coach julio jones/ryan/freeman

kittle/mostet/breida/freeman

 


He turned Mostert into the player he is now, same with Breida.  That’s my point, he identifies players that fit what he wants and the role he wants them to play.  Mostert was on the Jets practice squad, now he’s one of the more dynamic RBs in the league.  

So who would you consider the best play callers in the league right now?  

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8 hours ago, SAR I said:

SAR says that Gase is protecting Sam because Sam didn’t see the alignment and change the play when he should have.  Gase takes all the hits from the media anyway, so he might as well take one for Darnold when he can. 

I would love for Gase to call out Sam as I think he needs a slap in the face, but whatever Gase is doing with Sam is working as he was a Top 10 PFF QB yesterday. 

SAR I

So Gase is failing to develop the QB that he was hired to develop.  Got it.

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Gase has already exposed himself as perhaps one of the worst if not the worst HC this team has ever had (which is hard to do) who will be out of the league for good as soon this season is over, regardless of the homers and trolls who fellate him on this site.  The only remaining question is that if the Johnson's have the stones to finally hold a HC accountable and get rid of him before the season is over.  Don't hold your breath.

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