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Sam Darnold Discussion Thread: MERGED


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yeah its crap what we are doing to that kid

Adam Gase happened  and no wrs happened-it really is that simple give a young qb a coach and a star wr and suddenly they develop coaching matters and weapons matter the real question is

While I get there are a lot of people down on him, I feel bad for the kid to have to go though this. He deserves better and a chance at a coach who actually knows something about football.  

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28 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Fickle Jets fans. It's still gonna be a 1 from me, dawg. 

The only thing I'm wavering on is which QB I want.  @JiF has me reconsidering whether Lawrence is the slam dunk choice.

The guy had a respectable rating (86) and Herndon's drop on a perfect ball was the only thing keeping him from around a 100 rating last week - with no receiver that can get separation. It's the cast and more importantly, the play calling. No way do we draft a QB next year - Sam will play well when Bell, Crowder and Mims are on the field. Unless the coach continues to sabotage him, that is. 

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4 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'm not so sure Sam's issues have anything to do with mechanics. I keep hearing Gase say how much more comfortable Sam is in the offense and how well he knows it. Well, to me, Sam looks uncertain and uncomfortable in the offense.  QB's in command of an O can be seen "directing traffic", barking out orders and pulling the trigger quickly on pass plays. Does that sound like Sam? 

On the spectrum of QB styles and skill sets from Peyton Manning to Brett Favre, where does Sam fall? He is far closer to Favre in style and skillset. So, why does Gase expect Sam to be Peyton Manning? I am totally frustrated with the unbending nature of our brilliant offensive minds coaching and the reason is ..... because he is NOT a football coach. He is a glorified quality control coach. Players are not people with individual skill sets and motivations. Instead, they are simply interchangeable cogs in his machine. Regrettably, Gase just doesn't understand that his machine only works if the QB pulling the trigger is and all time great with a career's worth of knowledge at his disposal.  And seriously, any of us could coordinate a Peyton Manning led offense to good results.

Every football coach worth his salt maximizes what his players do well and avoids what they do poorly. Conversely, that is precisely how you attack opposing teams. Jesus, BB built a HOF coaching career doing precisely this, but with the religious ferocity of Southeastern Iraqi Shia Iman. CJ, please fire Gase and hire a football coach. Jason Garret is already in town and will lead the Jets to respectability while developing Sam. 

Like you said, we all up close got to see Sunday night how the Pats let Cam do his thing. They may have lost on the last play but to be within a few yards of beating the hawks in their backyard after a cross country trip is a testament to letting the QB play his game. If Gas were doing it with Cam he would stop him from running by calling no running plays and the same with Lamar Jackson. Sure it's a dangerous way to play QB, but that's who they are. 

A play nobody is talking about I was impressed with was the 1st down run by Darnold on Sunday he had to actually bull his way through since a defender had part of his shoulder pad. Nice play, then why on 4th and 1 do you not only disallow Darnold to audible to a QB sneak and worse off why didn't Gase call a QB sneak there to begin with?. Geez.

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2 hours ago, victorjets said:

I don't know who ruined, but I know who won't fix it..

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$50 in quarters (Do arcade games still take quarters?) to play Dance Dance Revolution would be a better footwork coach than Dwight Lowgains.

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12 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

The guy had a respectable rating (86) and Herndon's drop on a perfect ball was the only thing keeping him from around a 100 rating last week - with no receiver that can get separation. It's the cast and more importantly, the play calling. No way do we draft a QB next year - Sam will play well when Bell, Crowder and Mims are on the field. Unless the coach continues to sabotage him, that is. 

It's the surrounding cast AND Darnold.  Darnold isn't the guy, and Douglas knows it. 

At Darnold's best he's still an average or below average QB, with Andy Dalton as his ceiling.  We can, should, and will, do better.

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I have no allegiance to Darnold. He wasn't even the QB I wanted in the draft. However, it's clear to me that he was on his way in year 1, and has regressed significantly since. When I look at all of the factors, I see two common traits:

- Darnold without Gase was a highly touted prospect who in year 1 had cleaned up his fumbling issues, had his ups and downs including a disaster in Miami, but also showed consistent growth through the year. At the end of year 1, everyone was excited about him, and for good reason. This wasn't Sanchez being dragged along by a top 3 roster, it was Darnold looking like a real QB even in the face of awful circumstances.  

- Gase, in every OC/HC gig he's had other than when Peyton was running his offense, has been a consistently awful coach. The only time his offenses were not bottom third of the league was in Chicago as an OC in 2015, and even then his offense was only 21st in yards and 23rd in points. That Chicago offense also featured Cutler, Forte, Alshon, Eddie Royal, Martellus Bennett, and Zach Miller. He wasn't able to elevate Cutler who actually had better production under Trestman the two years prior to Gase's arrival, and Tannehill regressed significantly under Gase as did a lot of the offensive players in Miami. Look no further than how players are doing after leaving Gase's teams.

 

Ultimately, if Lawrence is there for the taking, you make that pick. Can't not make it. But, it's a shame that we didn't get to see Darnold with Kliff or McCarthy or Rhule. I firmly believe that Darnold will have a resurgence wherever he ends up away from Gase. 

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8 minutes ago, kmnj said:

I dont believe in the "weapons" or gm has given him-should have traded bell for hopkins-Bell >johnson well until the jets got a hold of him 

 

I would love to see him play a game or two here with even an average (15th or 16th best?) supporting cast. Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen and that is what bums me out most about the entire Darnold tenure. We have never even come close to putting a competitive roster around a QB who we picked at number 3 overall (and traded 3 second round picks for). 

It's just incredible to me. 

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51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

gre

greenwichjetsfan

Green Wich & Sam

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Cool cool. Yes, as you've probably gleaned from my posts, I believe his career trajectory has been negatively impacted by Gase and believe he's better than what he's putting out on the field right now, but I wasn't a Darnold fanboy to begin with, and I fully support taking Lawrence if available. But carry on wit ya bad self. 

 

Edit: I'm fairly certain I made those changes to my profile during the 2018 season after the GB game, and I generally don't look at that stuff so I haven't changed it. Otherwise, from January 2019 onwards, it would have been a picture of Gase with a big red X overlaid, and the little moniker would have read Say No to Gase.  

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2 minutes ago, kmnj said:

Adam Gase happened  and no wrs happened-it really is that simple

give a young qb a coach and a star wr and suddenly they develop

coaching matters and weapons matter

the real question is why did we draft a franchise qb and set him up to fail?

I am sure Sam wants out as fast as he can-he looks at Tannehill and says just hang in until the contract ends the run for the hills

 

A stating wr trio of Crowder , Perriman and Mims paired with a TE in Herndon is not upper echelon but its not bottom barrel either. Take away some of those parts and it gets exposed much more. Look at the Saints last night w/o Thomas or the Bucs week 1 w/o Evans. Sure the optics have been bad , but it will get better . 

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2 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

While I get there are a lot of people down on him, I feel bad for the kid to have to go though this. He deserves better and a chance at a coach who actually knows something about football.

 

yep I agree sadly the success or lack of success by many players is determined by what team selects them and what tooks they give him to develop and succeed.  The offense is painful to watch but really guy is throwing to guys that basically are not NFL caliber wrs and gore is way way way washed 

They handed darnold keys to the car and then he saw it has no engine and square wheels and people wonder why he cant drive 

 

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It's all bullsh*t excuses...

so USC shold have rolled out Darnold ALL THE TIME, we turned him into a robot by making him throw from the pocket...

what torture...  what yoiung QB could STAND such CRAZY ideas

seriously?

you guys are infantilizing him....

Gase must be punished, Sam must be coddled....    again IDGAF about GAse...

wacthing good NFL Qbs throw the ball, take hits to make plays and watching Sam ??? different category entirely.

Sam is bottom tier until he plays his way out of it. Looking up at old man Fitz....   STILL  

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6 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Gase is turning Darnold into a robot, boxing him into a system where he's becoming gun-shy about making mistakes.  If Gase could use a Xbox controller to move Darnold around on the field he would.

will the Xbox fix his sh*tty footwork? Jordan Palmer cant, Bates couldnt, Gase cant....

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2 minutes ago, kmnj said:

Adam Gase happened  and no wrs happened-it really is that simple

give a young qb a coach and a star wr and suddenly they develop

coaching matters and weapons matter

the real question is why did we draft a franchise qb and set him up to fail?

I am sure Sam wants out as fast as he can-he looks at Tannehill and says just hang in until the contract ends the run for the hills

 

No doubt a HC happened and a lack of Weapons happened but that still does not excuse how he looks in the pocket. When you are under pressure sometimes you have to make your first 2 reads and either bail or throw the ball away. 

JD started with the foundation of building the OL and drafting 1 WR ... Gases use of Bell is criminal not only for Bell but for at least taking some pressure off the QB with some screens. This could very well all come down on the offense Gase is running because its terrible. With all that being said I'm still seeing a QB playing scared and very uncomfortable and maybe its time Sam gets in Gases face and tries to be the leader he wants to be after all this is his career and if he's not getting it done with Gase there has to be some fire under his ass to confront his HC and say WTF are we doing here. I mean you have former players and analysts ripping Gase and what he's doing so you would think the players on the field would see it as well nothing says you can't push your coach a bit Brady certainly did it right on camera for all to see.

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