Sam Darnold Discussion Thread: MERGED

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

It's not fantasy. It's fact. He was recruited initially by Justin Wilcox to come in and play outside linebacker. He declined initially. That is absolutely true. 

He wasn't recruited as a LB.  

LOS ANGELES – Mike Darnold noticed their glances. 

Steve Sarkisian, Clay Helton and Marques Tuiasosopo were standing apart on Howard Jones Field, observing a high school quarterback named Sam Darnold complete one pass after another on a midweek day in late June 2014. 

USC’s summer camp had turned into an audition for Darnold. The coaches took notice. 

“I remember those guys looking toward each other,” said Mike, Sam’s dad, who watched from one sideline, “and thinking this is going well.” 

Sam Darnold, who was entering his senior season at San Clemente High, needed to impress. USC had not yet offered him a scholarship, and he had a limited track record. He had played only 12 varsity games, with only five starts at quarterback. He missed most of his junior season because of a broken foot. 

That made his throwing session in front of Sarkisian, Helton and the others on the Trojans’ staff all the more consequential. It afforded them a rare chance to watch Darnold. 

Making the pitch

About a week before the camp, Helton called Jaime Ortiz, the football coach at San Clemente High. While the Trojans had not extended Darnold a scholarship offer then, they kept recruiting him, still in search of a second quarterback for their recruiting class. Ortiz received the phone call before one of the varsity team’s workouts. He handed his cell phone to Mike, who was nearby. 

Mike recalled the pitch. 

“Are you still open to considering us?” Helton asked. 

Mike explained that Sam had recently narrowed a list of the schools he was considering. Plus, they were about to take a five-day trip for the end of the month for visits, using a AAA travel agent to handle the tight schedule. But Mike said he’d talk to Sam. The call ended. They’d talk later. 

“As I’m walking away,” Mike said, “I’m thinking, ‘What an idiot, of course we’d consider.’” 

Indeed, there wasn’t much to mull over. Sam went to the camp before his trip. They managed. 

“It’s USC,” Mike said three years later. 

The decision paid off. Darnold’s performance left an impression. 

“Sam, that day, is just really brilliant,” Helton said. “In that type of atmosphere, around USC coaches, really good players, he did what he does. He just put on a show.” 

Afterward, Sarkisian invited Sam, along with Mike, his mom, Chris, and older sister, Franki, into a room outside his office in the John McKay Center. 

“I want to offer you a scholarship,” Sarkisian said. 

Chris was in tears. After leaving the football complex, the family stopped by a cheesesteak shop on Figueroa Street, across from the Coliseum, near an onramp to the 110 Freeway, before heading home. Mike broke the news to everyone behind the counter. Everyone within earshot heard the proud father.

 

 

 

[kmnj]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

A stating wr trio of Crowder , Perriman and Mims paired with a TE in Herndon is not upper echelon but its not bottom barrel either. Take away some of those parts and it gets exposed much more. Look at the Saints last night w/o Thomas or the Bucs week 1 w/o Evans. Sure the optics have been bad , but it will get better . 

stop with the nonsense already-fans buy into the hype of garbage players.

Perriman is a total jaq that  was cut  by two teams

Herdon is not Kittle or Andrews but a jaq te who didnt see the field last year to contribute and his best season was 39 catches

Crowder is the only semi capable wr he has to play with and he is a wr3 on most teams

saints lost a road game it happens-even without thomas they have kamara and cook and smith all better than our options-carr by the way has a great rb a great te and some nice young wrs 

Carr looks good now because he has a good coach and good weapons exactly what same does not have

 

 

[section314]

11 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Gase is turning Darnold into a robot, boxing him into a system where he's becoming gun-shy about making mistakes.  If Gase could use a Xbox controller to move Darnold around on the field he would.

Perfectly stated. Watch the last 4 games of his rookie year, and pretty much every game since. Two totally different guys.

[68JET11]

5 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

It's all bullsh*t excuses...

so USC shold have rolled out Darnold ALL THE TIME, we turned him into a robot by making him throw from the pocket...

what torture...  what yoiung QB could STAND such CRAZY ideas

seriously?

you guys are infantilizing him....

Gase must be punished, Sam must be coddled....    again IDGAF about GAse...

wacthing good NFL Qbs throw the ball, take hits to make plays and watching Sam ??? different category entirely.

Sam is bottom tier until he plays his way out of it. Looking up at old man Fitz....   STILL  

Nobody is coddling the kid... but he still is just a kid, he needs someone who know how to coach, and GASE is not it.

[Smashmouth]

3 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

It's all bullsh*t excuses...

so USC shold have rolled out Darnold ALL THE TIME, we turned him into a robot by making him throw from the pocket...

what torture...  what yoiung QB could STAND such CRAZY ideas

seriously?

you guys are infantilizing him....

Gase must be punished, Sam must be coddled....    again IDGAF about GAse...

wacthing good NFL Qbs throw the ball, take hits to make plays and watching Sam ??? different category entirely.

Sam is bottom tier until he plays his way out of it. Looking up at old man Fitz....   STILL  

I'm not infantilizing anything. He's not good in the pocket at all I don't care who he's throwing too he looks terrible. The one way we all saw him look good was rolling out improvising and having the freedom to do more. He is not a pocket passer and its evident and is he's not learned that in three years what are you expecting to happen ?

My point is put him in something he's shown he can excel at and then mix in stuff you want him to improve and see what happens. Thats much better than looking at a scared QB every single week until we play an equally crappy team and get some false hope,.

[kmnj]

not only does sam have a terrible coach he has hot garbage at wr and it is not even the same hot garbage

you really think he should have the confidence to throw the ball or in the routes run by hogan berrios and herdon? 

 

 

[Integrity28]

QB is the foundation you build the house around. 

In order to do so, you hire a capable architect and builder - or coach and GM. The Johnson’s keep hiring a plumber (no offense to plumbers), good at one thing, and asking them to build the whole house.

This is why the only thing we’re good at is flushing the whole thing down the sh*tter every couple years.

[Barry McCockinner]

11 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

yeah its crap what we are doing to that kid

that's pretty great ?

[Jetsfan80]

21 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Cool cool. Yes, as you've probably gleaned from my posts, I believe his career trajectory has been negatively impacted by Gase and believe he's better than what he's putting out on the field right now, but I wasn't a Darnold fanboy to begin with, and I fully support taking Lawrence if available. But carry on wit ya bad self. 

 

Edit: I'm fairly certain I made those changes to my profile during the 2018 season after the GB game, and I generally don't look at that stuff so I haven't changed it. Otherwise, from January 2018 onwards, it would have been a picture of Gase with a big red X overlaid, and the little moniker would have read Say No to Gase.  

 

Sheesh I was just trying to have fun with ya.  

[Drums]

4 minutes ago, section314 said:

Perfectly stated. Watch the last 4 games of his rookie year, and pretty much every game since. Two totally different guys.

Probably the most disappointing, crushing thing of it all. I can handle the Jets being terrible, the coach sucking, but to take a guy that had the potential to be great at the position we need most and end up with not even average at this point is ******* terrible. If not now, when? Gase stays, I’m gone. It isn’t worth the time we all put in every damn day, even in the offseason. 

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Darnold's accuracy is an odd thing. He has some throws where it is mind boggling how he drops the ball into a tiny window. He has done it under pressure, off-platform, you name it.  Flashes of absolute brilliance.  OTOH, it is not consistent and there are plenty of throws where I shake my head.  I don't think he has the strongest arm.  Strong enough, but closer to Matt Ryan than Matt Stafford IMO.

His mobility seems good.  He has escapability (not a real word) and can elude pressure, but he isn't going to scare anybody running the way that Allen or Jackson do.  I think the hope is more Ben Roethlisberger back there.

I don't think going to the hurry up is the answer.  Sure, Darnold seems good in a mad scramble, but the receivers are not and they are all pretty new to this offense.  It seems to me that having a hurry up with Perine, Hogan, Berrios and Malone is a recipe for disaster.  

They tried to use tempo on Sunday but I feel like every time they tried, someone got injured. 

[joewilly12]

NFL QB either you have it or you don't. 

What has Sam Darnold done that is so amazing. Before SOR I says it again he won 6 games at the end of last season against bottom feeder teams and Steelers team without Big Ben. 

Granted the NY Jets WR's are garbage he should still be making better throws, better ball decisions and he looks he's afraid to run which isn't good in todays NFL. 

Nothing shy of a miracle I think Sam Darnold is done as the NY Jets QB, I hope in wrong. 

[Beerfish]

Adam Gase and the fact that our #1 is hogan a guy who was out of a job to start the year.

Darnold has not been great but he is not nearly as bad as some paint him to be.

Last game, 3 or 4 passes right in the mitts dropped, interior oline cannot gain one yard on two cracks.

Our #1 back is 70 years old.

The great TEs we were supposed to have (the QBs bet friend in modern nfl) are overrated crap.

Gase stinks....did i mention that?

[#27TheDominator]

Everybody always wants to run screen passes.  Screen passes are not something you base on offense on.  If you can pass, you run screen passes to counter the pass rush.  When you can't pass, screen passes are usually just very short, sh*tty pass plays.  People were calling for this when Schottenheimer was OC.  There is no reason to expect a run based smashmouth O with Sanchez or Pennington to be able to effectively run screen passes.  I am surprised that they weren't good at it with Favre, but with him and maybe McCown were the only times I'd have expected any success with a screen game.

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, kmnj said:

stop with the nonsense already-fans buy into the hype of garbage players.

Perriman is a total jaq that  was cut  by two teams

Herdon is not Kittle or Andrews but a jaq te who didnt see the field last year to contribute and his best season was 39 catches

Crowder is the only semi capable wr he has to play with and he is a wr3 on most teams

saints lost a road game it happens-even without thomas they have kamara and cook and smith all better than our options-carr by the way has a great rb a great te and some nice young wrs 

Carr looks good now because he has a good coach and good weapons exactly what same does not have

 

 

If you read my post that's what I'm saying. And they are not Jags but when taken as whole that's what it amounts to. Kittle and Andrews would be Jags playing in this offense right now , give it time to be built by Douglas and we'll see maybe some of the players when surrounded by more talent look surprisingly competent. 

Everyone wants to blame Sam/Gase but the Jets have spent an eternity ignoring offense. They are building the Oline a good first step in the right direction, remember how things changed under Parcells when they brought in Mawae and Faneca and later drafted Brick and Mangold. Now they need to upgrade the skill positions , we have Mims this year and hopefully a 1st or 2nd round wr next year. I know as Jets fans we've been saying it forever but we need just a little more patience before blowing it all up and stating over again. 

[kmnj]

look at the young qbs in the league and weapons given and even they have struggled a bit -I will not include mahomes because he is all world talent but still has tons of weapons

Danny dimes-slayton tate engram barkley(rip) sheppard

Baker-hunt chubb landry obj hopper

Murray-drake fitz kirk hopkins

Allen-diggs brown singletary and even cole beasely who would be our one

Goff-woods kupp highbee and had gurley but now has some young backs of promise

give Sam any of those teams weapons and he looks way way way better

 

 

[kmnj]

Sam is being judged vs other  young qbs and the disparity of weapons is criminal and now his "weapons" are not even the same guys so in addition to having jags to throw to they are not even the same jags that he has limited practice with

[#27TheDominator]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The great TEs we were supposed to have (the QBs bet friend in modern nlf) are overrated crap.

It is funny that the Jets gave Griffin all that money, when Jordan Reed signed for the minimum.  I would have made a play for him.  Sure he is always hurt, but he is good when he is on the field which is more than you can say for our injury prone stiffs.

[56mehl56]

2 minutes ago, kmnj said:

look at the young qbs in the league and weapons given and even they have struggled a bit -I will not include mahomes because he is all world talent but still has tons of weapons

Danny dimes-slayton tate engram barkley(rip) sheppard

Baker-hunt chubb landry obj hopper

Murray-drake fitz kirk hopkins

Allen-diggs brown singletary and even cole beasely who would be our one

Goff-woods kupp highbee and had gurley but now has some young backs of promise

give Sam any of those teams weapons and he looks way way way better

 

 

Exactly, so why doesn't Gase get the same treatment , he's being asked to run an offense at least this past week with guys who should be bagging groceries . If Sam has Crowder, Perriman, Mims, Bell all in the lineup , its a vastly different offense then Berrios, Hogan, Gore . 

[Losmeister]

 

 excuses are broing. 

 

[ScarletKnight89]

18 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He wasn't recruited as a LB.  

LOS ANGELES – Mike Darnold noticed their glances. 

Steve Sarkisian, Clay Helton and Marques Tuiasosopo were standing apart on Howard Jones Field, observing a high school quarterback named Sam Darnold complete one pass after another on a midweek day in late June 2014. 

USC’s summer camp had turned into an audition for Darnold. The coaches took notice. 

“I remember those guys looking toward each other,” said Mike, Sam’s dad, who watched from one sideline, “and thinking this is going well.” 

Sam Darnold, who was entering his senior season at San Clemente High, needed to impress. USC had not yet offered him a scholarship, and he had a limited track record. He had played only 12 varsity games, with only five starts at quarterback. He missed most of his junior season because of a broken foot. 

That made his throwing session in front of Sarkisian, Helton and the others on the Trojans’ staff all the more consequential. It afforded them a rare chance to watch Darnold. 

Making the pitch

About a week before the camp, Helton called Jaime Ortiz, the football coach at San Clemente High. While the Trojans had not extended Darnold a scholarship offer then, they kept recruiting him, still in search of a second quarterback for their recruiting class. Ortiz received the phone call before one of the varsity team’s workouts. He handed his cell phone to Mike, who was nearby. 

Mike recalled the pitch. 

“Are you still open to considering us?” Helton asked. 

Mike explained that Sam had recently narrowed a list of the schools he was considering. Plus, they were about to take a five-day trip for the end of the month for visits, using a AAA travel agent to handle the tight schedule. But Mike said he’d talk to Sam. The call ended. They’d talk later. 

“As I’m walking away,” Mike said, “I’m thinking, ‘What an idiot, of course we’d consider.’” 

Indeed, there wasn’t much to mull over. Sam went to the camp before his trip. They managed. 

“It’s USC,” Mike said three years later. 

The decision paid off. Darnold’s performance left an impression. 

“Sam, that day, is just really brilliant,” Helton said. “In that type of atmosphere, around USC coaches, really good players, he did what he does. He just put on a show.” 

Afterward, Sarkisian invited Sam, along with Mike, his mom, Chris, and older sister, Franki, into a room outside his office in the John McKay Center. 

“I want to offer you a scholarship,” Sarkisian said. 

Chris was in tears. After leaving the football complex, the family stopped by a cheesesteak shop on Figueroa Street, across from the Coliseum, near an onramp to the 110 Freeway, before heading home. Mike broke the news to everyone behind the counter. Everyone within earshot heard the proud father.

 

 

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Things-to-know-about-NFL-Draft-QB-Sam-Darnold-117296386/

https://www.newyorkjets.com/news/7-things-to-know-about-sam-darnold-20591804

Both of those stories I read said that Justin Wilcox, the Defensive Coordinator initially recruited Sam to come to USC as a linebacker. But he declined.

If they're wrong they are wrong but that's what I was going off of. Not that any of it matters. He has bad mechanics. 

[kmnj]

3 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Exactly, so why doesn't Gase get the same treatment , he's being asked to run an offense at least this past week with guys who should be bagging groceries . If Sam has Crowder, Perriman, Mims, Bell all in the lineup , its a vastly different offense then Berrios, Hogan, Gore . 

because Gase has had input on who is on the roster and who plays and gase has already failed with better talent in miami

 

 

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

16 minutes ago, JiF said:

They tried to use tempo on Sunday but I feel like every time they tried, someone got injured. 

To be fair, I feel like every time they didn't try to use tempo someone got injured.

[greenwichjetfan]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Sheesh I was just trying to have fun with ya.  

I don’t know what’s what anymore. I can’t tell up from down with this team. I haven’t related fun to this franchise or this forum since Dec 2018.

My buddy and I texting each other talking about how stupid some team will be to hire Gase, and a few weeks later, reports surface that it’s us.

 

- We had our chance at a proven SB winner who’s famed QB school helped refine Aaron Rodgers, but he cost too much
- We had our chance at a one of our own draft picks who turned into a progressive young offensive mind who wanted to bring a dynamic, flexible, open offense designed to make a QB’s job easier to the Jets, and we let him leave for another interview
- We had our chance at a CEO type motivator who would have brought with him a solid staff and strong culture, but we wanted to dictate his coaching staff

So instead of any of them, we went for the only proven loser available who was widely hated by some of his most important players.

All I know is we need to get rid of this guy before he ruins another Jets QB - be it Lawerence, Fields, or whomever. And let me be clear: he ruined Sam Darnold.

[Losmeister]

23 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I'm not infantilizing anything. He's not good in the pocket at all I don't care who he's throwing too he looks terrible. The one way we all saw him look good was rolling out improvising and having the freedom to do more. He is not a pocket passer and its evident and is he's not learned that in three years what are you expecting to happen ?

My point is put him in something he's shown he can excel at and then mix in stuff you want him to improve and see what happens. Thats much better than looking at a scared QB every single week until we play an equally crappy team and get some false hope,.

so Sam has a better YPA ,comp%, DVOA on rollouts? I'd love some data on that if it's out there....

your basically saying he seems unable to play QB effectively in the NFL....

[ScarletKnight89]

Poor talent, bad coaching, and his own inability to stop making the same mistakes he was making as a rookie. 

[56mehl56]

Just now, kmnj said:

because Gase has had input on who is on the roster and who plays and gase has already failed with better talent in miami

 

 

 

 

Better talent in Miami  ? Tannehill was injured for most of the time Gase had him there . Newsfeed - all HC's fail when their teams don't have talent . 

The Jets could bring in the corpse of Vince Lombardi , with Chuck Noll as DC and Mike Martz as OC and still lose with this current roster. Its being built we need to have some patience. The situation the Jets are in right now falls well beyond Gase. 

[peebag]

Chris Hogan is now WR #1

[Losmeister]

btw,

my gut feeling is that " Do tis the right way"   " Protect Sam" 

means...   we will attempt ti WIN but have to rally round whenanother in bad times...  cos \

we are not just hittingteh eject button on the HC/QB combo until I get theguys WE WANT in here...   not the guys MAC left us with....

so, suck it up buttercups....

[kmnj]

33 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

It's all bullsh*t excuses...

so USC shold have rolled out Darnold ALL THE TIME, we turned him into a robot by making him throw from the pocket...

what torture...  what yoiung QB could STAND such CRAZY ideas

seriously?

you guys are infantilizing him....

Gase must be punished, Sam must be coddled....    again IDGAF about GAse...

wacthing good NFL Qbs throw the ball, take hits to make plays and watching Sam ??? different category entirely.

Sam is bottom tier until he plays his way out of it. Looking up at old man Fitz....   STILL  

fitz looks great when parker is there not so much when no parker-see pats game when parker left-see bills game with parker there-look at last year

Fitz had 3500 20 tds- almost half (9 went to parker) 35% of his total yards passing went to parker

give sam parker and he will look better than with hogan......

[jetstream23]

44 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

will the Xbox fix his sh*tty footwork? Jordan Palmer cant, Bates couldnt, Gase cant....

Who knows.  They never fixed Phillip Rivers' arm angle so who knows what's fixable.

[JustInFudge]

24 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

 

 excuses are broing. 

 

Did you watch that Baldy breakdown, like the actual footage?  Darnold was on his like 4th maybe 5th read, bouncing his eyes feet around to each target, then it looks like Berrios runs an option route, so Sam threw this one a tad off platform but shoulders perfectly square to the target and led him perfectly, legit hard to place it better.  This was a 10 yard route to the middle of the field.  It's not like he was trying to drive something down the seam, or to the sidelines or a long ball, etc.  Anywho, the still makes it look much worse than it is. 

 

 

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Darnold got a 28 on the Wonderlic and is emotional. Not sure why you say he is otherwise. He basically has a similar demeanor as Brady. Your statement that most QBs are loud is demonstrably false.

Look, I like Sam, but if we're passing judgement and pointing blame, he's got to get some too.

I have seen Tom Brady visibly upset, shouting at receivers and linemen on the bench many times.  I've seen Drew Brees visibly mad at himself, pounding his helmet into the turf.  I've seen QB's go after their own defenders being held back by their linemen when they've mouthed off about a turnover.  Hell, Mike Vick owned a dog fighting ring.  I don't see any on-field or sideline emotion from Sam and as bad as our team is playing, perhaps a team captain should be holding himself and his own players accountable there too.

Yes, a steady, cool demeanor is a must for a franchise quarterback.  But I've yet to see Sam go nuclear and I'd like to.  Times like this almost demand it, no different than an NHL coach putting his goons out on the opening faceoff to set the tone.

SAR I

[deucebag]

39 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

It's all bullsh*t excuses...

so USC shold have rolled out Darnold ALL THE TIME, we turned him into a robot by making him throw from the pocket...

what torture...  what yoiung QB could STAND such CRAZY ideas

seriously?

you guys are infantilizing him....

Gase must be punished, Sam must be coddled....    again IDGAF about GAse...

wacthing good NFL Qbs throw the ball, take hits to make plays and watching Sam ??? different category entirely.

Sam is bottom tier until he plays his way out of it. Looking up at old man Fitz....   STILL  

I think you missed the point.  Do you tailor a QB to the offense or the offense to the QB?  Would Sean Payton tell Drew Brees to throw bombs every 3rd series?  No - because he can't anymore and that was never really his strength.   Would you tell Dan Marino to throw screens and shallow crosses - well you saw it happen, look what Jimmy Johnson did to Marino - forced him into a ball control offense to the detriment of the team.  

 

Now for some de ja vu, Sam and Mark, both USC QBs coming out early who have not mastered football but played pretty damn well because they were in a loose improvisational offense at USC.  Mark comes to the Jets, gets told he cannot throw on the run anymore because its too dangerous, so he was forced into a drop back pocket passer - he was uncomfortable, could not get set, got happy feet, his mechanics went to crap and then was told he's stupid and can only throw a pass based on a color coded system and he better not turnover the ball.   Sam. same deal in college, comes to the Jets and just when he starts getting "it" towards the end of his rookie year, the following year he's forced into Gase world.   Drop back, stand in the pocket, run the play as called and do not under any circumstance turn the ball over.  Sam's instinct is to scramble and throw, but instead, whenever he feels that urge, he starts and then sees Gase in his head - NO SCRAMBLING, NO TURNOVERS.  You could have the crappiest WRs in football but if they are trained to come back to the QB when he's scrambling (rather than STICK TO THE PLAY AS CALLED), they can get open.

 

GASE<Bruce Coslet<Joe Walton....we've been here before guys SMH! 

 

One thing about NFL coaches - they are stubborn, they believe what they believe and if anything goes wrong its someone else's fault.  Words of Bill Parcells - "I NEVER second guess myself".  

[Losmeister]

14 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Who knows.  They never fixed Phillip Rivers' arm angle so who knows what's fixable.

So Rivers had accuracy issues?